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World Series Game 2 Open Thread

jimenez

schilling

4-4, 4.28

9-8, 3.87

by now Valatan should have received his gold watch and plaque . . . . in case you missed it, yesterday was his last regular wednesday post. he'll still be hanging out in the comments and making the occasional appearance on the front page, but he's giving up the once-a-week gig. i want to add my thanks and appreciation to all the statements that were posted yesterday. V was one of the very first members of this community and has always been an active and positive agent in it. as far as i know, he's the only one among us who witnessed pujols' shot off brad lidge in person. while i do have to question his priorities (a doctorate more important than baseball??), i wish him all the success in the world. thanks for ev'ything, V man.

various and sundry items from around the world:

  • rotoworld is reporting that the cards released mike maroth. too bad he didn't work out; maroth seemed like a solid guy.
  • on the subject of left-handed F.A. pitchers: with tom glavine being touted as a potential signee by the cardinals, i decided to look up the all-time single-season leaders among 42-year-old pitchers (that'll be glavine's age next year). only 12 pitchers in history have won as many as 10 games at that age; however, 4 of those seasons came in the last 2 years (moyer, clemens, wells, and randy johnson), so it can be argued that 10 wins is now a realistic goal for a pitcher of that age. only 10 pitchers in history have thrown as many as 184 innings at age 42, but again, 4 of those instances happened in 2005 or 2006 (the same 4 guys who recorded 10+ wins). here's one that's not so easily explained away: only 10 42-year-old pitchers in history have posted an era of 3.89 or lower, and only 2 of those occurred within the last 25 years --- one by clemens, the other by nolan ryan. glavine has been a great pitcher, but he ain't no clemens or ryan. so it would seem prudent for whoever acquires him to assume a best-case scenario of 200 innings with an era in the low 4.00s. david wells at age 42 put up a 4.45 era; jamie moyer, 4.28. glavine's era last year was 4.45, and after june 1 (his last 22 starts) it was 5.03. his FIPs the last three seasons have been 3.98, 4.35, and 4.82. . . . . . lots more discussion in this diary.
  • during joe strauss' chat yesterday, somebody asked if any current minor leaguers had a realistic shot at making the team out of spring training. strauss replied: "Here's a name to chew on: Mike Parisi as stealth fifth starter." and here i thought i was the only person who gave parisi even the most remote chance of ever pitching in st louis. but apparently at least one source inside the organization considers parisi a sleeper and dropped his name to strauss. (my guess is the name-dropper was mozeliak, who drafted parisi.) the kid also has been mentioned twice at Bird Land in recent days, as a player likely to be added to the 40-man and a guy with one very good pitch (his sinker). should we cheer the fact that a player of such limited achievements is being discussed, however fleetingly, as a longshot candidate for promotion? i think so. while parisi has never displayed the potential to be a good major-league player, i think he has a shot to be a useful one --- a guy who can haul innings and take some pressure off the payroll. better a guy like that than a guy like ramon ortiz (or mike maroth, for that matter). if parisi does make the team, it'll be a fluke; he'll come to camp listed 7th or 8th on the depth chart, as he should. but i was surprised (pleasantly so) by strauss' answer. if nothing else, the big-league coaching staff will be paying attention when parisi takes the mound next march.
  • they'll be watching with even greater interest when mitchell boggs throws. derrick goold's blog entry about him this morning includes some praise from Baseball America's will lingo (who called boggs the cards' future workhorse). he doesn't look ready yet --- one set of 2007 MLEs that i saw translated boggs' line at springfield into a 7.00+ era at the big-league level. but let's see where he stands by this august, after 20 starts in triple A; let's see where he stands by next spring. boggs has shown the potential to be more than just useful; he has a realistic shot to become an average (or better) big-league pitcher.
  • cardinal farmhand bryan anderson is keeping a journal for Team USA. he posted his first item yesterday (hat tip, Future Redbirds). at 20, anderson is the youngest guy on the team; here's the full roster (which includes stl prospects colby rasmus and chris perez). rick eckstein is the 3d-base coach, former cardinal reggie smith is the hitting coach, and long-ago nemesis davey johnson (mgr of the ol' 1980s-era pond-scums) is the team skipper. former big-league gm bob watson is also involved in an administrative capacity. good taste of the major-league life for all these guys.
  • e-mail from a cardinal fan who grew up in wisconsin: "i remember jd drew NOT playing catch with the milwaukee brewers ball-girl [during pre-inning warmups]. am i imagining this? does he not play catch with anyone prior to the inning, or does he just not play with women? my red sox loving friend doesn't believe me, and i am starting to doubt myself. please help." anybody?
  • finally, here's a nice piece of writing about why the red sox are no longer lovable.

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Parisi
I was in Memphis for a bachelor party and MOM and saw Parisi pitch in person (had awesome and cheap seats in the first row 3B line right above the Memphis dugout). I was underwhelmed. Maybe it was the lead-off home run, the other home run, and a number of other hard-hit balls. His location was terrible. His sinker wasn't sinking and he couldn't throw his curve to save his life.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=t235&gid=2007_05_05_albaaa_mrbaaa_1& amp;cid=235&t=g_box

Ludwick got called up later that day.

Christianson is also terrible. One of the worst arms I've ever seen on a C. No wonder they had to get Stinnett when Yadi went down.

by thepainguy on Oct 25, 2007 9:36 AM EDT   0 recs

Brian Esposito
Was the Memphis catcher who was called up when Yadi got hurt.  I believe he made one appearance before Stinnett was signed.

It is a well-noted fact that the Memphis catchers are Dreadful.  

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Oct 25, 2007 12:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pitcher batting 8th
     Still can't figure out the genius in that one.  Just wanted to stir the pot a bit. :)  Anyone with a modicum of intelligence would choose a professional hitter, one who has spent their entire life perfecting the art of hitting over someone who has spent their life perfecting the art of pitching. I realize that there are exceptions to the rule, Bob Gibson comes to mind, and, as many pitchers were the best hitters on their teams in High School, College etc..... I can see the use of them in various points in the line-up. But, to routinely have a professional pitcher hit before a professional hitter smacks of a carnival act.

by Yadier on Oct 25, 2007 9:46 AM EDT   0 recs

But...
"to routinely have a professional pitcher hit before a professional hitter smacks of a carnival act."

Doesn't that happen three or four times a game regardless?

Well, let's go to the old mill anyway -- get some cider!

by Alxfritz on Oct 25, 2007 10:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I've never checked myself...
but from what I understand in many/most cases if you plug the pitcher into the eight spot on most lineup "toys" the runs produced is increased.  

by cardzfanbub on Oct 25, 2007 10:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well
Pretty much EVERY advanced statistical method of analyzing lineup construction has the pitcher batting 8th being better.
Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Oct 25, 2007 10:21 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And the reason is pretty evident:
The pitcher leading off greatly increases the chance that the #3 hitter leads off the next inning.  If you add more space between the pithcer and the #3 in the lineup, then this effect goes away.

by Valatan on Oct 25, 2007 10:25 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Perhaps it is just over simplication on my part
but, back to my playing days, I remember placing our  hitters in order so you could have your best players have the most opportunities to hit.  I.e.  Sure your power guys were at the 3 and 4 slots, hoping to have some table setters for them to drive in.  However, You ran the risk of running out of outs before they could hit in the end of the game.... anon.

by Yadier on Oct 25, 2007 1:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The effect lies
in the fact that your normal 8th place hitter isn't that much better than your pitcher anyway.  The pitcher only hits probably twice a game and then is replaced by some pinch hitter who may actually be better than your 8th place hitter.  The typical #3 hitter is usually MUCH better than many of the other hitters in your lineup.  

So the idea is that you put your really high OBP guys at the top of the lineup to get more AB's, and move the pitcher up a few spots to maintain the distance between him and your best hitter.  The lineup tools really say that the best lineups have Pujols in the 1 or 2 hole (more AB's) and the pitcher in the 6 or 7 hole.  Why?  There's just not that much difference between the bottom of the order hitters and the pitcher but batting Pujols 1st or 2nd will get him, maybe 50 more AB's throughout the course of the year -- with 2 or 3 legitimate hitters in front of him (except for in the first).

And, as someone else correctly stated, every lineup tool demonstrates this effect.

by houstoncardinal on Oct 25, 2007 2:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I got to see the Lidge shot in person as well.
I'll never forget the hush that came over the crowd after Pujols made contact.

Now that Maroth is gone, it looks like Bennett will be the next casualty.  TLR commented on 1380 that we're looking for a backup catcher, so it seems unlikely his option will be picked up.

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5041660&highlight=#5041660

by outraged on Oct 25, 2007 9:55 AM EDT   0 recs

Let's have a moment of silence
And fondly remember that weekend in 2006 when Gary Bennett beat the Chicago Cubs all by himself, and there were snowcones and wild turkey shooters for all.
"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Oct 25, 2007 12:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I recall that moment
at times like last night.  When the team I want to get smacked around is setting some dang record for runs scored.

by sdrone on Oct 25, 2007 12:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I told
the person watching with me "listen...you can actually hear his footsteps" as he rounded the bases.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 25, 2007 12:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I even have
this pic on the font page of my myspace...the day Pujols Killed Lidges Career

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 25, 2007 1:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey, I may be crazy but
I'll take "make $5m for sucking" as a career!

by sdrone on Oct 25, 2007 1:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

ha
haha so do i

by Pujols on Oct 25, 2007 3:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

heh
I was lucky enough to be in the St. Louis area that weekend and was able to see his walk off single and his walk off grand slam.  He had a hell of a week.

Is it Jose Molina time? ;)

by outraged on Oct 25, 2007 2:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Let's just
Sign all three Molinas.  We could switch them out in the middle of games and no one would know the difference!  
"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Oct 25, 2007 5:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

being in the same company w/strauss
in regards to minor leaguers isn't always good. in a lot of his chats, there were numerous gaffes i caught him in in regards to the minor leaguers. i almost thought about doing a few FJM type of posts, they were so off the mark and ridiculous.
all that being said, i wouldn't totally rule out parisi being a 5th starter. he had a better season then his teammate blake hawksworth.

by erik on Oct 25, 2007 10:11 AM EDT   0 recs

But
is it Parisi himself that has lb "pleasantly surprised" (his words), or the premise that Parisi represents - that the Cards are looking to meet some of their needs in their own ranks rather than in other team's dumpsters?

by cardsgirl95 on Oct 25, 2007 10:28 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

....my thoughts
exactly, cardsgirl.  i can't speak for lboros, but i was definitely psyched to hear it for the reason you put. if they are willing to give a guy like parisi a true look, then doesn't it make it more likely they would do the same with some of their other younger players.

by MrPlow on Oct 25, 2007 10:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

goold
seems to do a much nicer job...

by Birds on the Matt on Oct 25, 2007 12:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

he also covers the cardinals
system at baseball america. and he has minor league reports at the pd occasionally.

by erik on Oct 25, 2007 12:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

V
lboros even capitalized your name! Now that is compliment!
All my friends became Cardinal fans and grew up happy and liberal. I became a Cub fan and grew up embittered and conservative." -- George Will

by wannabeGedman on Oct 25, 2007 6:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I just wanted to thank Clint Hurdle
for throwing his best pitcher against Josh Beckett.  Can't ANYONE look at what TLR did last year and learn from it?

Sorry, I'm a bit bitter after last night's game.

by sdrone on Oct 25, 2007 10:28 AM EDT   0 recs

Point taken...
but if Francis is gonna give up 6 in 4 innings, wouldn't it be best to have it happen in that game?  Better than wasting a 6IP 2ER outing.

by cardzfanbub on Oct 25, 2007 10:37 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What LaRussa did?
You mean have the series go 7 games so that your best 2 pitchers and Weaver don't have enough rest to start?  That strategy?
Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Oct 25, 2007 11:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

hummm
Yeah I was confused about "what Tony did"??

Reyes (our worst starter) vs. Verlander (Best)

Beckett (best) vs. Francis (best)

Maybe the poster was saying never start your best vs the other teams best unless you are sure that your best is better.  The Rockies need only a split at Boston so why not start Josh Fogg or Jimenez game 1 vs. Beckett and then start your best in Game 2.   Maybe that is what the poster was getting at???  That is too much thinking in my opinion.  I don't know what you do there as Beckett is just a whole nother pitcher in the post season.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 25, 2007 12:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thats exactly what I thought
Why not arrange the order so you have a better chance against their lesser pitchers instead of going head to head best-to-worst? I thought piniella made a huge mistake starting zambrano against webb. If he started marshall against webb, then went to zambrano for game 2 and lilly for game 3 and hill for game 4, I thought it woulda been much smarter as far as matchups went.

by Birds on the Matt on Oct 25, 2007 12:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You know
I figured that is what you were thinking.  It seems like every year in the playoffs it seems some teams would be better off doing that.  Especially when your trying to get a split on the road.  I think it makes a lot of sense when you have an average #1 which Francis is vs. an ACE aka Dominant #1 which Beckett is.  I agree with you. I acutally was thinking it before the game even started.  Francis was not good but you would feel terrible wasting a 3 run effort when tonight you figure if Francis were to hold a team to 3 runs they would have a much better shot.  Basically against Beckett if your starter allows more than 2 runs the game is over.

It is a lot of hinsight but I don't think your idea is bad at all.  I like leveraging your rotation.  Either way you are going to get second guessed.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 25, 2007 12:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

and then follow
This then pits your #1 against their #2 in game two, your #2 against their #3 in game three, and your #3 against their #4 in game four.  If the two teams were evenly matched, this would mean that by basically conceding game 1, you have a distinct advantage in the other three games - and 3 of 4 in a seven game series is not bad.  

However, this means that you (as manager) have implied that your #1 is not good enough to stand a real chance, and told your hitters that they are not good enough to give your #1 a real chance.... risky psychology.

by cdb on Oct 25, 2007 2:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought
that was what he was saying - don't waste a start by your best going against their best unless you are sure yours is better.  TLR threw Reyes out there (he had little other choice after the NLCS went 7 games) and we got a pleasant surprise because Reyes pitched the game of his life.  

by cardsgirl95 on Oct 25, 2007 12:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Guys
I know what he was saying, i.e. Reyes was the way to go.  But LaRussa didn't strategize and come up with that.  That was a product of the situation where Carpenter threw Game 6, Suppan Game 7 and Weaver would've been on 3 days rest if I remember this right...therefore Reyes got the "nod".

Had Carpenter been rested and ready and he hadn't thrown...I would've rioted all by myself.

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Oct 25, 2007 12:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Game 1
That situation with Carp and Verlander wouldnt have been applicable to last nights situation because Carp (when healthy) > Verlander.  The comparable situation would have been for Detroit to save Verlander for Game 2.

by UNCDubya on Oct 25, 2007 2:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Therefore
This had nothing to do with LaRussa as I stated in the first reply...
Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Oct 25, 2007 3:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right
Beckett is a roll.  A BIG roll.

Francis is most likely off his game.

In my mind, that game against Beckett is the game you are most likely to lose.   By far.  Regardless of whom you start.

by sdrone on Oct 25, 2007 12:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Beckett being "a whole nother pitcher"
is, to me, exactly why you don't throw Francis out there.  

I may be all wrong.  I just figure it has a better chance of working out for you (i.e. getting out of Boston with a split) if you start Francis in game 2.

by sdrone on Oct 25, 2007 12:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not like Francis pitched a stellar
game anyway.  six runs off of 10 hits in four ip is not going to win very many world series games, regardless of who is standing on the other rubber.

by Valatan on Oct 25, 2007 12:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I.e.
this is not 2001 when Matt morris pitched the game of his life, and just got outmatched by Curt Schilling or something.

by Valatan on Oct 25, 2007 12:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

reg season
also keep in mind that the rockies beat beckett in the regular season.  You can argue that he is a different pitcher in the post-season, but the rockies handed him his first loss of the year.

by cdb on Oct 25, 2007 2:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yea, but...
if you wait to throw Francis until game 2 then you might only get to use him once if you're swept and twice otherwise.  I personally would want my best pitcher to get the most opportunities as possible.  That's just my opinion though.

by eglasier on Oct 25, 2007 1:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ugly
That game was UGLY!  I know the 8 days off did not help but Beckett was just dominant.  It would not have mattered if Colorado just played yesterday.  The indians have a pretty good offensive team and Beckett shoved fastballs up their butts all night as well.  Josh Beckett is a rare breed who can step it up in the postseason, and he prooved that in 2003.  He is just a "big game" pitcher and all he threw the first few innings were 96-97 MPH fastballs.  He was blowing people away.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 25, 2007 10:49 AM EDT   0 recs

I think it certainly would have mattered
but it might have only mattered in the vein of Boston winning 6-4 instead of 13-1.

by sdrone on Oct 25, 2007 11:26 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Boggs
That was a nice interview link.   Boggs sounds like a hard-working kid.   Confidence + zeal for learning is nice 2 hear.

by RedbirdRay on Oct 25, 2007 11:02 AM EDT   0 recs

Come on now
I keep coming over here (probably more often than I do in the season!) in the hopes that the very top of the page will have something like:

[UPDATE: cards hire antonetti as gm, press conference at 2 pm]

(lack of capitalization thrown in for full lboros effect)

And yet, I still come up empty.  Man I hope we get that guy!

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Oct 25, 2007 12:38 PM EDT   0 recs

GM
I know zero about all these GM names I hear.  In my opinion these are two of the most important things the new GM needs to address in my opinion.
  1. Improve Latin America scouting
  2. Improve player development.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 25, 2007 1:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Good summary:
http://www.bnd.com/sports/story/160652.html

But this remark I hadn't seen before: "La Russa said Oct. 1 that if he returned for a 13th season as manager, he would lobby aggressively against trading left fielder Chris Duncan."

Otherwise happy to hear the tone of discussions with Eck sounds as though he'll be left to test FA market. (and likely move on).

But if we need to work a trade, and one of the many left handed OFs isn't on offer, who is?

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Oct 25, 2007 1:19 PM EDT   0 recs

Good, I agree with that
Duncan gives the Cardinals 2 things
  1. Power in LF
  2. Power at 1B is Pujols gets injured
"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 25, 2007 1:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed
I have been saying that since people have been throwing Duncan's name around.  You can not afford to trade Chris Duncan for AJ Burnett.  Chris Duncan is the only other player who has proven to have at least consistent MLB power in the line up besides Albert.  It would be a huge mistake to trade him unless it is for a true #1 Ace type pitcher.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 25, 2007 2:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pink Sox
Is it me or has there been an outbreak of pink Sox hats, the likes of which has not been seen since October 2004?  Don't get me wrong, there is nothing sexier than a female baseball fan, but the brand spanking new Pink 59/50's are driving me nuts.

GO Rockies

by WizardofOz on Oct 25, 2007 1:30 PM EDT   0 recs

couple of theories
  1. The Sox are the trend of the moment...like Yankees hats.  The brand spanking new hats are pretty lame.  Ugh.
  2. But, then again, merchandisers have finally figured out that us female baseball fans want some gear made for a girl, ala touch by Alyssa Milano.  You can get pink hats for virtually every MLB team.  I personally prefer the traditional look, but it's not all bad.
Either way, GO ROX!!!  ;o)

by cardsgirlinAR on Oct 25, 2007 1:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This girl wears a lot of pink in October.....
it's breast cancer awareness month.  I think the guys should wear it too....

by jillsinmo on Oct 25, 2007 6:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i was wondering...
if this would get brought up, and i agree, it is a very good reason to wear it, i personally wear a bracelet that is pink for that reason, and only for that reason, you wouldnt catch me in anything pink otherwise
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Oct 25, 2007 8:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I have....
an awesome pink dress shirt that I rocked today with a blue suit and a red tie.  I got a lot of shit at the staff meeting, but all the women said it was a great outfit.

Real men wear anything that looks good.  

by Brock20 on Oct 25, 2007 8:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I work in an elementary school, and even
some of the boys wear pink shirts-one of them even has a T that said "Real Men Wear Pink" which was really sweet on an 8 year old boy......I doubt it's for breast cancer awareness.  Maybe their dads buy it for them.

by jillsinmo on Oct 25, 2007 9:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Real fans wear team colors
As a female baseball fan, I'm utterly offended by the idea that pink hats are the only way to interest the girls in baseball.  And yes, bandwagoneers wearing pink hats come close to the lowest form of baseball fandom.  (And seeing these brand new fans at the play off and WS games, taking away tickets from real fans, makes ME nuts.)  On the other hand, I'm glad that there is female-friendly baseball merchandise.  I hate wearing baggy t-shirts cut for men just because it is the only way I can get the shirt I like, and my fiancee does appreciate my STL bikini.

by ChiTown CardFan on Oct 25, 2007 2:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Just curious
Where in Chi-town? The city proper or out in the burbs?
That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.

by Solanus on Oct 25, 2007 4:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right downtown
Just west of the loop.

by ChiTown CardFan on Oct 25, 2007 6:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

not sure if you noticed
but there's a ton of pink cardinals stuff too. It isn't just the sox, it's mlb trying to appeal to (read: make money off of) a broader demographic.

by Birds on the Matt on Oct 25, 2007 2:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

that and...
I believe some of them are breast cancer awareness related (not all, but some).

by SmashedAtoms on Oct 25, 2007 5:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Todd Helton
I'm browsing trying to avoid work, and I notice Todd Helton, who's 34, has a 9 year contract, ending in 2012 with, IIRC, a 2013 option.  

That seems like an awfully long contract (and expensive as well) for a team that really tries to keep costs down.  He's surely going to be headed downhill when that contract ends.

  1.  What does everyone think of contracts that long that aren't for someone named Pujols?
  2.  Were the Rockies in a position in 2003 that they needed to hand out a pretty generous contract to keep him on the team?  

by sdrone on Oct 25, 2007 2:13 PM EDT   0 recs

helton
From 2000 to 2003, Helton was a monster--Pujulsesque--not an ops under 1.006--from his rookie year to 03--no ops under .910.  Along with big rbi, homerun, and average numbers.  On top of the offense, you could argue that Helton is/was the premier defensive first baseman in the league.  The Rox were gambling--that he would stay healthy and productive.  Sometimes the gamble pays off and sometimes not.  They did need a recognizable player after losing the Blake Street Bombers--had to keep fan interest alive
Here's to the hopeful resurection of the MV3

by SprfldCards on Oct 25, 2007 3:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you're absolutely correct
about the length and expense of helton's contract. there was quite a bit of hand-wringing here in denver when it was announced, especially over the length.  

you may recall that the rox actively shopped todd in the offseason - and very aggressively to the red sox (oh sweet irony).  while his former power wasn't there, he had a strong offensive season and a likely gold-glove winning defensive season.  

in answer to 1 - i'd be surprised if there is much evidence out there to support contracts of that length - given injury risks, opportunity costs and the like.

2.  the brief answer is no. but at that time, he was the face and hope of the franchise.

by sdesserman on Oct 25, 2007 3:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It may have been a face of the franchise type
thing.  With Walker getting older and not able to hold that position for much longer.

by outraged on Oct 25, 2007 2:35 PM EDT   0 recs

oops
that was supposed to be a reply to the above comment

by outraged on Oct 25, 2007 2:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Red Sox not loveable?
didn't they pretty much coin the Evil Empire phrase? well, the reason they're falling in line with the Yankees as clubs you hate is b/c they're turning into the yankees themselves by throwing money at everyone like the yankees do. they're gaining on the yanks with their $140+ million payroll.

by bigJOE1 on Oct 25, 2007 3:42 PM EDT   0 recs

Shame about maroth
i really thought he'd be decent for the redbirds, like low to mid 4 ERA. Too bad he didn't work out.......like REALLY didn't work out.

by bigJOE1 on Oct 25, 2007 3:44 PM EDT   0 recs

Bennett
was thinking his days as a Card might be numbered after he barely played down the stretch, even though I know he was "injured" - I think pretty much everyone was "injured" in some capacity at that point.  I wonder if they soured on the way he worked with some of the young/struggling pitchers or something.

I guess shopping for a backup catcher is a bit like shopping for socks.

I don't really have much to say about Maroth.  it sounded like a good idea, and it worked for exactly one day.  hopefully he'll have better luck somewhere else, preferably in the AL.

Acquire some runs... next year!

by madding on Oct 25, 2007 4:03 PM EDT   0 recs

Back up Catcher
The Cubs back up catcher makes 3.25 Million.

Soto will be making about $345,000 and starting next year.

I bet the Cubs have the highest paid back up in baseball.  Wow, that is a lot of money for Henry Blanco.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 25, 2007 5:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That Soto kid looked really
good at the end of the season.  Looks like the Cubs might have finally developed a position player after a long drought.

by jillsinmo on Oct 25, 2007 6:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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