the more the mayorier

by lboros on Oct 19, 2007 9:21 AM EDT in News Comment 57 comments

more bullet-pointed fare today --- assorted non- and semi-cardinalcentric thoughts about baseball:

what a pleasure to watch josh beckett pitch last night. i haven't ever had a chance to sit down and watch this guy. i believe he could have beat the indians last night with just one pitch, his fastball --- pinpoint accuracy, late movement, and (oh yeah) mid-90s velocity. he ought to try that one time, ie an all-fastball outing. i seem to recall a legend that dizzy dean once told the opposition before a game, "nuthin' but fastballs today, fellahs" --- held true to his word, struck out a bushelful of batters, and beat 'em handily. (scroll down to the dean obituary in this link.) that story's probably not true, but i'm glad there's no pitch-fx log out there to disprove it. . . . anyway, back to beckett: i for one wasn't all that impressed w/ his breaking pitches, but the cleveland hitters were buckling at the knee anyway --- because they were so geeked up for the fastball. beckett was fearless with those breaking balls --- he was lobbing them right over the plate, not at all worried about location. didn't have to worry about it. the indians made contact (foul ball or ball in play) on only 72 percent of their swings last night, a ridiculously low total (80 percent is average); they also were able to put just 24 percent of the strikes they saw into play, an obscenely low percentage as well (mlb average, 31 percent).
i generally detest fox's coverage, but the close-up they did on manny ramirez's single off the yellow line was outstanding. they should do more stuff like that.
john hickenlooper, the mayor of denver, was on my flight home yesterday; i had a long chat w/ him at the gate about the rockies. back in april, he boldly predicted on KOA (denver's answer to KMOX) that the rockies would win 87 games and make the playoffs as western division champs. "they won 76 games last year with absolutely no pitching," he told me. "i thought the pitching would be better this year, and (centerfielder willy) taveras would make a big difference for the defense. and i knew tulowitzki was gonna be great; i saw him play when he came up last fall." i've known hickenlooper since the early '90s, when i was an in-over-my-head editor at denver's alt-weekly, and hick owned the brewpub / pool hall across the street; i spent a lot of time over there seeking refuge from my in-over-my-headness. hickenlooper played a not-inconsequential role in bringing baseball to this town; the success of his tavern demonstrated the economic potential of lower downtown (which is where the ballpark is now located), and he sat on some committees and rallied support for the bond issue authorizing the stadium (which barely passed). somehow we allowed the conversation to veer away from baseball; we ended up talking about schools and parks (zzzzz . . . . ). so i never got his prediction for the Series. i gotta think he's calling it rox in 4 . . .
and here, by the way, is a list of all the teams who've gone undefeated in a single postseason.
la russa to the royals? one of the best baseball writers around, joe posnanski, sincerely hopes not. this is not a serious consideration, by the way, so don't get all excited; just part of the interesting little back-n-forth poz had w/ la russa pal bobby knight. recommended reading. in fact, posnanski's blog is always recommended, no matter the subject.
Future Redbirds cited an interesting article in the memphis commercial appeal about dyar miller's reassignment in the st louis system; he's out as the triple A pitching coach, and will become the roving minor-league instructor. the commercial appeal wondered if the change had anything to do with miller's impolitic comments this year (made on st louis radio and elsewhere) about dave duncan's handling of anthony reyes. miller says no, it wasn't a factor. . . . .
speaking of the minors: if you haven't noticed yet, mitch boggs has turned in a couple of nice outings for the mesa solar sox in the arizona fall league: 6 innings, 2 hits, 0 runs. the three position players from the st louis farm system aren't getting a great deal of playing time (40 at-bats total); they have 0 extra-base hits so far as a group . . . .
finally, derrick goold has a gold-mine of information on card farmhands' performances in the fall instructional leagues. lookin' good: jess todd, clay mortenson, d'marcus ingram, andrew brown, nick additon. not lookin' good: oliver marmol, daryl jones, shane robinson. pete kozma didn't play; spent the session working on his defense w/ mark dejohn.

0 recs | Comment 57 comments

Comments

Boggs

The other day in his espn blog, Keith Law, called Boggs "the surprise arm of the week [in the AFL]." He noted that Boggs, "flashed a 93-96 mph fastball, touching 97 once, with an average hard curveball at 82-84 mph. The curve isn't consistent, so he lacks the true out pitch most late-game relievers have, but he has good control and adequate command to work as a middle guy in the big leagues at some point next year."

BTW, Larry, I don't know what the convention is on this site with regard to posting Espn Insider content. Let me know if the above is appropriate or not, thanks.

by MrPlow on Oct 19, 2007 9:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks for asking Mr Plow

your citation of Insider content was appropriate --- ie, a snippet (with credit given). those are kosher. a large chunk of content (ie, more than ~ 2 paragraphs) would be overdoing it, but little nuggets like the one above are cool.

and appreciated, by the way.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2007 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's pretty high praise,

coming from Keith Law. I'm of the school of belief that his supposed "hatred" of the Cardinals is a little overstated, but I do think he tends to underrate the farm system a bit. For him to come out with that kind of praise for one of our pitchers really says something to me.

For what it's worth, I think that Law tends to underrate Cards' prospects due more to a difference in evaluation philosophy, rather than a built in bias. The types of players the Cards seem to go for just seem to be different from the types of guys he likes.

Thanks for the heads up, Mr. Plow.

The 2007 offseason: Butter? Or Steel?

by the red baron on Oct 19, 2007 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"KLaw"

I do appreciate KLaw's insight and his unvarnished take on guys. I love Gammons but the next time he says something negative about a player or prospect will be the first time. KLaw's approach -- specifically his rife negativity -- has actually grown on me a bit; its sort of refreshing. I would concur that his perceived dislike of the Cardinals has more to do with the type of players in their system the last few years as opposed to a bias against the organization.

Also, as I recall, he has always had complimentary things to say about Rasmus.

BTW, he loves Andrew McCutcheon, but its funny how it seems he never mentions McCutcheon without taking a shot at the Pirates incompetence....in his blog he wrote, "[McCutcheon] is going to be a star -- despite the Bucs' best efforts to wreck him by rushing him through the minors." Awesome. So the Cards aren't the only organization he has skewered in the present or past.

Also, thanks Lboros for clearing that up for me. I'll try and provide a discrete portal into Espn Insider when the situation calls for it.

by MrPlow on Oct 19, 2007 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

great info

i really have liked boggs more then most. he makes all his starts and is consistently solid. he doesn't strike anyone as a future ace, but seeing the type of $ given out to the Pineiro's of the world it's encouraging to see a homegrown arm coming up.

Future Redbirds

by erik on Oct 19, 2007 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couple of thoughts....

We were in Denver on a family vacation the day that Denver was awarded the expansion franchise. Miami got the other one. I think I still have the Denver Post with the headline.

Boston media is saying that LaRussa will go to the Yankees, which to me seems like the worst possible fit. Tony's been notoriously cranky with the St. Louis media, who compared to the NYC media are gentle. I would believe he would crash and burn in the Big Apple. In those regards, KC would be a better fit. Not a good fit, but a better fit.

The best case scenario for Tony would be to sit out this round of openings. I don't see any that are immediate potential winners, with probably the exception of the Yankees. Instead, he could wait for the invetiable mid-year firing of the manager of underperforming team. He could jump on that and lock up an a two or three year extension.

I will admit to not knowing much about the particular politics of these jobs, but in thinking about potentially underperforming teams with short hooks I would think the Padres and Dodgers jump to mind. Both crashed and burned this year, so I would imagine the first hint of weakness and the managers could be thrown out.

It would also allow Tony to be closer to home.

by Brock20 on Oct 19, 2007 9:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eh...

It's the Boston media, so who cares.

As for LaRussa, I believe he will come back to the Cards now. DeWitt clearly wants LaRussa back and is more than willing to give Tony a loud and important say in the GM search process. That type of power over personnel decisions is something Tony would not get most other places.

by JMedwick on Oct 19, 2007 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus

Bernie is pretty adamant that TLR is returning and will make it official after the GM search is done, that he had a chance to rest and think and wants to return.

That's what he's saying in his forum, at least.

C70 at the Bat

by Cardinal70 on Oct 19, 2007 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree about TLR probably coming back

but I place less weight on the power of new personnel decisions as being the real draw. I believe Bernie's and Strauss' reports that TLR's decision is being influenced primarily by his loyalty to current players. Both have said that TLR seriously started to reconsider the position only after he had numerous conversation with players who asked him to return (this is after Walt was fired).

Peter Gammons said on Mike & Mike this morning that he's heard from inside sources that TLR is close to signing a 3 year deal with the Cards. Who know if that's true. But it makes sense for TLR if he's being motivated largely out of loyalty to his players because most of the key members of the team have their contracts expire prior to or by 2010. Then they could decide whether to stay or go, depending on what they think about the future direction of the club.

by nycardfan on Oct 19, 2007 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Denver

Hey LB, I heard a rumor that there is a brewery underneath Coors Field (actually, I heard that is where they brew the beer Blue Moon). True or false?

Well, let's go to the old mill anyway -- get some cider!

by Alxfritz on Oct 19, 2007 10:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

true, i think

i believe they brew Blue Moon right there on the premises, out in the right-field corner. Blue Moon is a Coors Brewing Co. property, and as you might have noticed Coors' name is on the stadium .....

also, Breckenridge Brewery is an outfield-relay away from the stadium; they brew on-site.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2007 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's it...

I'm moving to Denver.

"I don't believe what I just saw!" ~ Jack Buck

by itsalemmon1019 on Oct 19, 2007 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Very cool

Blue Moon is a fantastic summer beer.

Well, let's go to the old mill anyway -- get some cider!

by Alxfritz on Oct 19, 2007 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

blue moon...

An even tastier version is New Belgium Brewery's Mothership Wit. Not sure how widely distributed it is, but it puts blue moon to shame. Also try their Sunshine wheat - which is more widely available.

by cdb on Oct 19, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Drop an orange in it

and have yourself a drink.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

behind the stands

in the right field corner is a little slice of heaven appropriately named the sandlot where i've waited out several cards/rox rain delays over the years and met a friend before game 3 of the nlcs this year (the rainy sunday night game).

they, in fact, brew blue moon there, but we had their porter on sunday. excellent.

given that a couple of weeks ago colorado overtook california as the nation's leading beer producing state based largely on a thriving microbrewery industry, it's not surprising.

by sdesserman on Oct 19, 2007 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uhhh

"anyway, back to beckett: i for one wasn't all that impressed w/ his breaking pitches"

His curve is basically identical to Carpenter's curve in that it doesn't really have much "top". Maybe not quite that good but Beckett's is a power hammer that'll touch 80. Not to mention the arm speed on his change is really good.

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Oct 19, 2007 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i'm judging only from last night

and last night it didn't like to me like beckett's curve had a lot of depth. and, as i said, he didn't show much command w/ it --- wasn't throwing it to spots. that doesn't mean he lacks the command; i think he knew that he didn't have to be too fine w/ the pitch last night, because the fastball had them so mesmerized.

i'm not suggesting it's a bad pitch. but i think its effectiveness derives more from the interplay w/ the fastball. i'm contrast it to a curve like wainwright / morris / kile's, which are / were curves capable of discomfiting hitters even if they know the curve it coming.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2007 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is probably true

but last night I thought it was a pretty damned good pitch. You're dead on that he was just throwing it over the middle of the plate -- to me that was a testament to how good it was. But you're probably right that it was more a testament to how good the fastball was.

by chuckb on Oct 19, 2007 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Power Arm

That is the type of power arm the Cardinals need. We need a guy who can beat guys with his fastball. There are many ways to pitch and be successful, just look at Greg Maddux (probably my favorite pitcher ever).

But all that being said I really think the Cardianls need a pitcher who can run it up there at 96,97,98 MPH consistently. We just need a different look in our rotation in my opinion.

Back in 2004 the Red Sox were hot but my comment was the Cardinals had too many pitchers who threw exactly the same. So each game the Red Sox were seeing the exact same pitcher.

I would like to see a guy who can just go to his fastball when need be. You all have seen Big Z dominate the Cardinals and he just brings heat when he gets in trouble.

Agree??

by ICbirdfan on Oct 19, 2007 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I haven't done

any reading yet on the Pitch F/X, but wouldn't it eliminate the guess work of comparing and judging pitches like curves and sliders?

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 19, 2007 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If it is accurate

I remember looking at gameday while watching the game a few times and the pitch indicator wasn't even close.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It tends to vary by park

My understanding is that at certain stadiums it's calculated by cameras and computers, and at others it's up to good ol' human eyes. Not to say that both can't be totally inaccurate.

"A great catch is like watching girls go by; the last one you see is always the prettiest." - Bob Gibson

by stl tyler on Oct 19, 2007 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

article

MLB Article on it It's pretty long but it tells you how they gauge/calibrate it.

It's video at 30 frames per second. 3 cameras and markers on the field. Guys in the truck calibrate it using the CF camera for each batters strike zone.

It's in 28 of 30 parks and expected to be in all 30 in 08.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 19, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It'll give you the quantified break

But is a -7 inch break at 80 mph better than a -10 inch break at 73 mph? Does Barry Zito hide the curve better than Rich Hill? Is it easier to pick up the spin on Sabathia's slider or Peavy's? There's way too many variables that aren't quantified by the Pf/x system to make any sort of definitive statements other than "Ted Lilly's curve is most similar pitch in the bigs to Barry Zito's".

So yeah I guess if it could quantify that Beckett's curve is similar to Carpenter's that'd be useful, but it still wouldn't do all that much for you. He had knees buckling and could throw strikes with it (and that wasn't 100% a result of his fastball) : it's a very very good pitch I can see that one.

But especially on changeups Pf/x really doesn't tell you anything. As in anything at all really. 95% of a changeup's effectiveness is in the arm speed of the pitcher, something Pf/x isn't going to measure.

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Oct 19, 2007 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rockies

I know no one is going to believe me, but HONESTLY

My nephew is Greg Reynolds. He was their number one pick in the draft two years ago. Number 2 pick overall!!!
He is a pitcher, went to Stanford.

He had some shoulder problems this year, and had some minor surgery and is doing well.
He would have probably been in Colorado next to his teammate Franklin Morales if he had not gotten hurt.
The Rockies are really being cautious with him and his shoulder injury, which is nice to see. He is a GREAT kid!

I am hoping he will be traded to the Cardinals- and he can give me all his family tickets since his family all lives in California.

Hear me Mr DeWitt?????

by cdavis2488 on Oct 19, 2007 11:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Reynolds is pretty untouchable

The Rockies organization isn't going to let that one slip away.

Rockies in October!

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Oct 19, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dyar Miller

I'm glad Dyar Miller is out as AAA PC. I have heard him say some things that indicate that he doesn't look at his guys using high speed film but instead relies on his eyes, which aren't up to the task.

I discussed this back in August...

- http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/ThePitchingMechanic/Archive/ThePitchingMechani c_200708.html

For example, Miller said...

"It's kind of a misconception, two-seam versus four-seam. It's not how you hold the ball; it's your arm positioning..."

Actually, the degree of sink of the ball IS impacted by how you hold the ball. A 4-seamer doesn't sink as much as a 2-seamer does because (paradoxically) the greater number of seams interacting with the airstream actually generate more lift. As a result, it isn't that a 2-seamer sinks. Rather, it's that a 4-seamer doesn't sink as much as you would expect it to (which can make it look like it's rising).

Miller also said...

"If you lead with your elbow I don't care if you grip two seams, four seams, or eight seams -- your ball's not gonna sink..."

The truth is that EVERY major league pitcher leads with their elbow. See...

- http://www.chrisoleary.com/projects/Baseball/Pitching/Examples/LeadingWithTheElbow.html

Again, let me say that I don't think Dyar Miller is stupid or a bad guy, but I do think he (and many other PCs) are ignorant. They have never looked at high speed film or gone through clips frame by frame. As a result, they don't know what they are talking about.

by thepainguy on Oct 19, 2007 11:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think some NASA physicist

who loves baseball says the seams and the differences in airstream on top of and below the ball aren't enough to make a difference.

So I never know whom to believe.

by sdrone on Oct 19, 2007 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's wrong

He's wrong.

Aerodynamicists have studied this. The extra 2 seams energizes the boundary layer which (paradoxically) increases the lift.

Also, it's not that a 4-seamer rises. It just doesn't fall as much as a 2-seamer/sinker does.

by thepainguy on Oct 19, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not convinced

that everything they say is correct (my background is aero engr) but this is an interesting web site:

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/baseball/index.html

by SleepyCA on Oct 19, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

This is interesting, but they ignore the issue of 2-seamers versus 4-seamers by defining a single lift coefficient and focusing on spin rate.

The reality is that the lift coefficient differs depending on the orientation of the seams.

Basically, the theory is that the number of seams interacting with the airstream influences when the boundary layer detaches. With a 4-seamer the boundary layer stays attached longer, producing a more vertical vector, which translates into more lift.

by thepainguy on Oct 19, 2007 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I respect Beckett as one of the Top 10 pitchers

in baseball but he comes off as a total a-hole. Not the "I'm going to screw you into the ground" Bob Gibson/Roger Clemens jerk. The way he chews his gum with his mouth open as he pitches, the yelling at Kenny Lofton last night after Lofton flew out, etc he comes off as obnoxious.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2007 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

Lofton brought some of that on himself with the bat flip, and I think Lofton wanted to provoke him.

If you'll notice after the Lofton AB, for the rest of the inning he was overthrowing and having a little control problems. The Indians got the tying run to third before he got the last out.

C70 at the Bat

by Cardinal70 on Oct 19, 2007 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lofton's been doing the bat flip

since little league.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They had

little league in the 1800s??

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 19, 2007 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Zing!

n/t

by brindled on Oct 19, 2007 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Antonetti

Verducci says that he has become the leading candidate for the Cardinals GM, however his taking over of the position will be contingent upon having decision making power that can't be checked by Lunhow.

Isn't that basically what Walt wanted?

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2007 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Man I'd have assumed

that would be a given. Or maybe he's referring to draft picks?

by sdrone on Oct 19, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don't think that was the issue

as i read it, luhnow didn't have a check on walt's decision-making power. however, he did take over functions that walt's pals used to perform, and that diminished walt's sense of control --- instead of a longtime loyal ally handling things, he had a guy in there with an alien personality and an alien way of analyzing things.

if jocketty had been able to adapt to that reality, he'd still have the job. he couldn't adapt, and didn't really want to adapt --- didn't think he should have to, given his track record.

i'm pretty sure the "new gm will answer to luhnow" line of argument is being sourced by jocketty and his pals, who have an axe to grind; it's "disgruntled ex-employee" stuff, ie not particularly accurate.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2007 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

DeWitt has said

that the Cardinals are going to try to find a middle ground between player development and contending now. If you have two masters, Lunhow solely focused on development (his job) and Chris focused on balancing between the two, there is going to be inherent conflict.

If an offer comes across the table, say an AJ Burnett for Chris Duncan and Bryan Anderson, who wins out in the discussion? The catcher of the future vs a high powered arm the Cardinals desperately lack?

Antonetti, I'm sure, would like control over the drafts and the player development aspect of the job that is currently overseen by Jeff. Either Jeff is going to be stripped of some of his duties or Chris is going to lose some of the power other GMs would have.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

is there any evidence anywhere

that luhnow "vetoed" a trade? only stuff i've ever seen on that front appeared at the p-d chat boards.

your second point is well taken. as an accomplished player-development executive, antonetti might demand oversight --- he'd want luhnow reporting directly to him. perhaps that structural feature of the organization will scare off good candidates. on the other hand, if antonetti is compatible w/ luhnow on a personal level and is sympatico w/ his approach to drafting/development, maybe it's not a problem.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2007 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yet,

This discussion of Luhnow reporting to Antonetti or any other GM begs the question: was the split structure that evolved under Jocketty in 2006 and 2007 (i.e. Luhnow's semi-independence from Walt) an outgrowth of the schism between Jocketty and Luhnow or something envisioned by DeWitt?

The point being, without the house divided mentality that forced Luhnow and others to push for autonomy from Walt, DeWitt may not necessarily support giving Luhnow the same type of independence and push for a return for a more "normal" structure. The recent past maybe a unique situation designed to address very specific circumstances that will no longer exist (or should not longer exist) with a new GM in place.

by JMedwick on Oct 19, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bernie supports this view

although he believes that Antonetti would have more problems with Luhnow's authority than with TLR's.

by nycardfan on Oct 19, 2007 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The new power alignment if Antonelli is the man

>>Bernie supports this view, although he believes that Antonetti would have more problems with Luhnow's authority than with TLR's.<<

IMHO Bernie is out to lunch if said that. If Antonelli is hired as GM and TLR signs a three year contract as manager, then the new power struggle will be Antonelli v. TLR. My hunch is that Luhnow joins forces with Antonelli (philosophically they come from the same school) opposing the old school, win now approach of TLR.

There is no middle ground between Tony LaRussa and a GM with a player development organizational philosophy. Tony believes in my way or the highway. Bobby Knight is one of his bestest pals for a reason.

If this is how things play out, DeWitt will merely have deferred the organization's transition to the new school of baseball management for 3 years. The rift will never heal between Antonelli / Luhnow and TLR / D. Duncan.

by jjray on Oct 19, 2007 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bernie was asked in his forum

whether DeWitt might defer to Antonetti if he (Antonetti) didn't want LaRussa and wanted to hire his own manager.

Bernie's answer:

"It wouldn't be about the manager as much as it would be about Luhnow. "

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=495503&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&star t=8

Mind you, there is nothing to support the notion that Antonetti (or anyone else) is in any way threatened by Luhnow. It's likely that the new GM will want Luhnow to report to him but this is probably true of any GM, not just Antonetti. And, since DeWitt seems to be concerned about organizational harmony, it's doubtful that DeWitt wouldn't have Luhnow report to the new GM.

I think that Luhnow's power and influence has been exaggerated in the media. He's been reporting to DeWitt b/c Walt wanted nothing to do w/ him. I tend to think that DeWitt wants Luhnow reporting to the new GM and, as long as the new GM is OK w/ Luhnow's approach (which is likely, I think, w/ Antonetti), I doubt that Antonetti will have a problem w/ Luhnow.

Bernie's already come out publicly in support of Mozeliak. It's important to remember that whenever you read his comments re: Antonetti or any other potential GM (which, in this case, are pretty snarky!)

by chuckb on Oct 19, 2007 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Antonetti could want to put someone

he hand picks into Luhnow's position. I'm sure he doesn't want to be like a newly hired manager who is told "this is going to be your pitching coach or bench coach or trainer." Antonetti may not have any problems with Luhnow but he also may prefer to hire his own people and have authority to move them around at will.

by nycardfan on Oct 19, 2007 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bernie may be out to lunch...

I'll leave that as an open question, but he did say about Antonetti's possible reservations concerning the GM job: "It wouldn't be about the manager (TLR coming back) as much as it would be about Luhnow." But he wasn't saying that he thought TLR and Antonetti would form some kind of an alliance against Luhnow. He was just reporting that he believed Antonetti would not take the job unless he had complete authority over player development, including Luhnow. And he cited his access to internal sources.

by nycardfan on Oct 19, 2007 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"cited his access to internal sources"

that's one way to put it. You might also say he, defensively and sanctimoniously, was demonstrating his journalistic superiority over national reporters. To wit:

"But what do I know? I only talk to the owner of the team, and the manager, on an almost daily basis."

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=495503&start=8

doesn't really matter, I suppose. But I can't help but wonder why Bernie's got such a big burr in his saddle!

by chuckb on Oct 19, 2007 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're right, he did sound defensive

I wasn't sure what to make of his tone either.

by nycardfan on Oct 19, 2007 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bernie's got a big ego...

He likes to name drop a lot. And I think like a lot of local sportswriters, he wants to go national (or ESPN), but knows he wouldn't cut it. So he takes shots at national writers whenever he can.

by DiscoJer on Oct 19, 2007 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Antonetti

>>"It wouldn't be about the manager (TLR coming back) as much as it would be about Luhnow."<<

There is one issue: conditions under which Antonetti takes the job. That may very well require Luhnow relinquishes much of his current authority. I assume Lohnow caves on this struggle. But that is just to get Antonetti in the door. Once in the door, the power struggle clearly becomes one between the new GM and TLR. And this is a 3 year fight, not a few weeks. I'm not sure how what I know of Antonetti and his method of operation in any way squares with TLR. It will be a battle eventually if these two end up in the Cards organization.

by jjray on Oct 19, 2007 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I feel sorry for Luhnow,

considering that every sportswriter (both the good ones and the hacks) who has anything to say about the Cardinals' GM search brings him into the picture, usually presenting him as an all-purpose barrier to this or that so-called wise move. He doesn't deserve it.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Oct 19, 2007 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Get him in quick...

before they give Eckstein three years...

Let's go Red Sox!

Ease LaDunketty out gently, thank him profusely, and... Hire Antonetti!!!

by guayzimi on Oct 19, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beckett

I have been writing proposals all week- this will make anyone's brain numb... so to amuse myself a little, i began to fanticize about how great the Cards would be if our top 3 pitcher were: Josh Beckett, Chris Carpenter (the healthy 2005 version) and Adam Wainright...
I'm thinking those 3 alone would be good for 65 wins...

When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?

by RosevilleRedbird on Oct 19, 2007 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs