ALCS Game 3 / NLCS Game 4 Open Thread

by lboros on Oct 15, 2007 6:25 PM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News


owings	morales
8-8, 4.30	3-2, 3.43

and still the debate rages over the cardinals' re-signing of joel pineiro --- 179 comments in 5 hours, and still going strong. all for a #5 starter. . . . . i'll do a little research tonight and see if it changes my initial reaction to the signing, which is (cough, ahem) unenthusiastic.

anybody know if a team from either league has swept both the lds and the lcs in the same year? off the top o' me head, i can't think of a time that it happened. last year's tigers, the '05 chisox, the '99 yanks, and '95 braves all got through the 1st two rounds with only 1 loss; can't think of any team that went 7-0. the rockies will go for that tonight at 9 pm central. early game is a 6 central, matsuzaka v westbrook. join the chat on SB Nation:

Over the Monster
Let's Go Tribe
AZ Snakepit
Purple Row

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Never been done

In fact there have only been two LCS sweeps period since the introduction of the DS. Detroit last year and Atlanta in '95

Cheeseburger in paradise.

by joker24 on Oct 15, 2007 6:27 PM EDT reply actions

I'm rooting for the Rockies...but

I really think if they win tonight and the Indians/Red Sox series goes 6-7 games, then that long lay-off (over a week) will be the worst thing for them. We saw how the long layoff affected the Tigers last year.

So if you're rooting for the Rockies I think having them lose a couple games and then win it in 6 games will be better for their chances in the World Series.

by KYCards on Oct 15, 2007 7:12 PM EDT reply actions

I agree

So tonight I'm rooting for my boy from Tulane Micah Owings. He rakes harder than Slick Rick.

by TICY on Oct 15, 2007 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm sorry to be rude,

But that seems like a terribly foolish notion

by The Butcher on Oct 15, 2007 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Long layoff... thats crap.

Ok, that is harsh but I really don't think so...

Detroit's problem is they haven't been able to handle the pressure of being the favorites. It seems to be a common affliction these days. (i.e. '04 Cardinals, '07 Mets) Recall only a week before the post-season they (Detroit) nearly choked things away while playing the Royals. Their biggest single problem in the series was their pitchers forgot how to throw to a base other than home- and if you recal that is because they forgot how to step forward while throwing. Credit Mark Mulder for that observation and Brian Gunn for others.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Oct 15, 2007 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions

at the game last night

the scoreboard (i know, not always accurate) reported that the last team to win it's first 6 postseason games was the 1975 reds winning the lcs and ws in sweeps.

i was (blissfully) underneath an overhand last night, and am in a win/win scenario. either they win tonight and are going to the ws, or they lose and i've got great tix for wed. night's game.

by sdesserman on Oct 15, 2007 9:14 PM EDT reply actions

Bill Stonemen stepping down

this is bizarre. . .

Schuerholz, Ryan, Stonemen all voluntarily leave. Just a little odd.

by azruavatar on Oct 15, 2007 9:59 PM EDT reply actions

link

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7338488

by azruavatar on Oct 15, 2007 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe now they'll make a trade of some sort

Rosenthal said Ken Forsch will take over. Wouldn't Antonetti have rather had that job. I still think the Cards' job will go to Mozeliak, but the fact that Forsch is taking the Angels' job gives me some hope.

by chuckb on Oct 15, 2007 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Cleveland is about to blow it me thinks

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Oct 15, 2007 10:38 PM EDT reply actions

Joe Buck was almost enraged

that the Red Sox weren't winning that game. Does he really hate being in Cleveland/Denver that much?

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 15, 2007 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions

I bet Fox will be more enraged

about a Rockies-Indians World Series (poor ratings), maybe Joe was just being a company man for them LOL!

Seriously, if Joe is a true Cardinal (which he is) I would hope he still held a grudge with them for 2004. :)

by KYCards on Oct 15, 2007 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions

If I recall his early days

on KMOX, he was a bit geographically challenged, so maybe he is confused about which red-clad team are the Cardinals?

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Oct 15, 2007 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Morales youngest pitcher in LCS

topping Rick Ankiel.

As Morales has thrown atleast 3 pitches that he had NO idea where they would end up.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 15, 2007 10:57 PM EDT reply actions

Good job Tribe

I hope this keeps up, I can't wait to hear about the "lowest rated World Series since last year". Hooray for small market teams, stick it to the man.

A few observations about tonight's game;

The way Youklis bounces around in the batters box really ticks me off. I'm not sure why, it just bugs me to no end.

Helton's chin beard > Youklis's chin beard.

The pine tar on the helmets thing has really got to go. There's so much on Manny's helmet you can't even see the B.

Casey Blake has a sweet beard.

The Indians logo is such poor taste that it almost transcends taste and becomes O.K. again. (Almost)

Since 1995, there's only been two post-seasons that Kenny Lofton hasn't played in. That's with six different teams. Quite a stretch, and still without a ring.

When looking for comfort about the money involving the Piniero contract, it was nice to remind myself about how much money the BoSox spent on Dice-K for him to not make it out of the fifth inning in his two post-season appearances.

by stl tyler on Oct 15, 2007 11:01 PM EDT reply actions

It was once much, much worse

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 15, 2007 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Hate to be political, but

How the hell the Cleveland Indians can trademark that or their current logo is beyond me.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Oct 15, 2007 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Even worse

The most politically incorrect team in professional sports...the Washington Redskins. I don't see why Cleveland gets the bad rap, when Washington has that as their nickname.

Re-acquire Edgar Renteria

by Mr Redbird on Oct 16, 2007 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions

I second that.

The Redskins trump any other name in terms of offensiveness.

On with the youth movement!

by aet15 on Oct 16, 2007 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree.

the etymology of "redskin" is a racial slur. I just don't get how a court allows trademark on that.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Oct 16, 2007 6:21 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, it's pretty disgusting

Between my loathing of the Red Sox and my complete disgust with the racist Cleveland logo, I am completely ambivalent about who wins the ALCS.

On the other hand, either way I'll be that much happier rooting against either of them and hoping for a continuation of the unbelievable Rockies Sweeptober.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Oct 16, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Man, it'd be nice to have a SS

like Tulo who can, ya know...play the position.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 15, 2007 11:11 PM EDT reply actions

Yep

We don't have any so just admire his play! We have 45 middle infielders and not a one could make that play.

by ICbirdfan on Oct 15, 2007 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Goooooooo Rockieeessss

That is SOOO loud and almost haunting. Cirillo has to be rattled by that. I am here in my house.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 15, 2007 11:37 PM EDT reply actions

Micah Owings could play for my team

any day. That dive was nuts and he swings like a guy pissed off that you dare throw him a fastball.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 15, 2007 11:54 PM EDT reply actions

Has Clint made a bad decision

in the last 2 months? This is ridiculous. For once, I honestly feel that it's the AL battling it out to decide who takes the beating at the hands of the NL.

They are doing all this with Holliday and Helton contributing almost nothing!

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 15, 2007 11:58 PM EDT reply actions

I have never seen a team so hot

as the Rockies are now.

I hope the long layoff they will have (something like 8 days) doesn't hurt them too much. But I agree the Indians and Boston have to see how hot this team is and have to be a little worried about facing them, they have the momentum times 10 right now.

by KYCards on Oct 16, 2007 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions

i've never seen anything like this either.

they can do no wrong.

i, too, hope the layoff doesn't cool them off. then again, i was worried about the (admittedly shorter) layoff between the division series and the lcs, but they managed that one okay... ;)

they are such an exciting team, i just don't want to have to wait that long to see them take the field again.

go rockies!

by acham8206 on Oct 16, 2007 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions

the can't be stopped

my goodness.

i for one welcome our new Rockie overlords.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Oct 16, 2007 12:27 AM EDT reply actions

The people of Denver would like to thank

Tony LaRussa and Billy Wagner for screwing them out of home field advantage in the World Series.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 16, 2007 1:02 AM EDT reply actions

Well just like

last year when Hoffman and Garner screwed the cards ...not that it mattered.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 16, 2007 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions

Actually...

when you think about it, since their trend is to sweep, it works out well for the Rockies fans since it means they'll win the series while at home (somewhat similar to what we did last year, minus the game Detroit won via cheating, of course).

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

by Mr Clean on Oct 16, 2007 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions

It's amazing to think...

that the Rockies were ONE strike away from not making the playoffs. Tony Gwynn Jr. saved them, and now they are about to be NL Champions.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 16, 2007 1:06 AM EDT reply actions

Fuentes sucks

sometimes he is lights out, sometimes he is flat out BAD.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 16, 2007 1:20 AM EDT reply actions

I still hope the Rockies win

But i do enjoy a little suspense.

After this game is over, I'm rewatching last year's NLCS game 7.

The anti-cubs beard lives!

by effin fisk on Oct 16, 2007 1:36 AM EDT reply actions

Wow!

great dramatic finish.

Congrats Rox!

Congrats Todd Helton, the first baseman for my fantasy team the last two years.

Congrats Troy Two-low-wits-ski, ROY.

Congrats Matt Holliday, MVP.

Um... That's all.

The anti-cubs beard lives!

by effin fisk on Oct 16, 2007 1:41 AM EDT reply actions

Eric Byrnes

wonder if Mr. Shootshismouthoff will be on Fox again for the WS.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 16, 2007 1:43 AM EDT reply actions

highly unlikely

i actually feel bad for the guy.

i cant defend what he said. but i understand how & why he said it.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Oct 16, 2007 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions

grrr. hope not.

that was one benefit of the d'backs in the postseason. but it was pretty sweet watching his stupid face-first slide to end it.

congrats rockies!

by acham8206 on Oct 16, 2007 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions

Unbelievable

I never knew not being in the playoffs could be so much fun.

by nycardfan on Oct 16, 2007 1:49 AM EDT reply actions

congrats colorado, you've earned it.

that was impressive.

21 out of 22? my goodness.

i guess you really are GOD's team.

i for one welcome our new Rockie overlords.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Oct 16, 2007 1:50 AM EDT reply actions

All of them are GOD's teams.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Oct 16, 2007 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions

well not all of them

especially those wee little bears.

but seriously, the rocks are GOD's team. check it out.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/rockies/2006-05-30-rockies-cover_x.htm

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Oct 16, 2007 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions

That article is crap

I've been saying that for months. It's full of factual errors and completely misrepresents the attitude in the clubhouse.

Rockies in October!

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Oct 16, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't mean to get in a religious debate, but

Since when is "GOD" the eclusive dominion of Christians, much less evangelical Christians? Their are people of good and bad character in every religion and in no-religion.

Seriously, I realize the back-story regarding the Rockies character and faith, but to say they are "GOD's" team implies that (1) the other teams or players are somehow lesser in the eyes of GOD. (2) baseball is somehow a priority to GOD, as opposed to war, famine, disaster... Both ideas seem rather offensive. I'd just assume leave GOD out of it and let the teams play.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Oct 16, 2007 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions

i dont want to start a debate either

deadspin has been running with it for a while now & i thought it was funny. but after last nights win every Rockie player, coach & front office person interviewed went out of their way to say thanks to GOD because he helped them win. you never see that & it struck me as odd so many from the same team would do that.

didnt mean to piss off scarlett. i dont follow the Rocks like she does so i really have no idea what their club house is like. i only know what i've seen & read this month.

and i really hope no one thinks GOD doesn't have any thing better to do with his time than help certain sports teams win.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson And That's A Winner!

by gdm426 on Oct 17, 2007 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions

i don't know

as a Christian, i'm pretty sure God wanted the Cardinals to win last year. They'd earned it. But as a card's fan, I'm pretty sure we won because Duncan hit a double off of Verlander in the 3rd inning of game 1 (though Reyes and weaver helped, too).

This year, I'm guessing God is angry over the whole Dane Cook thing, so the Red Sox have to be at a disadvantage. On the other hand, he might be happy about the whole rockies dugout thing. That's the awesomeness of divine intervention; it works both ways.

FWIW I've got a significant amount of money (more than a month's pay, at favorable odds) on the rox winning the WS. Knocking on fake wood as I type this; if I lose, I'll know why.

by SleepyCA on Oct 17, 2007 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions

It seems that

the Rockies can't be stopped. We could have a virgin WS champion this year, that would be nice.

Oh, Scarlet, you can breath now - your boys are in.

by cardsgirl95 on Oct 16, 2007 2:00 AM EDT reply actions

They are

They are indeed, and I didn't breathe until they were. I love 'em all.

Rockies in October!

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Oct 16, 2007 3:53 AM EDT up reply actions

It's official

Dear poor Chicago Cubs:

If 100 years wasn't bad enough,

Since the Chicago Cubs last played in the World Series, these expansion franchises appeared in the Fall Classic:

New York Mets - 1969, 1973, 1986, 2000
Houston Colt .45s (Astros) - 2005
San Diego Padres - 1984, 1998
Colorado Rockies - 2007
Florida Marlins - 1997, 2003
Arizona Diamondbacks - 2001
Seattle Pilots (Milwaukee Brewers) - 1982
Minnesota Twins (franchise broke from Senators) - 1987, 1991
Los Angeles Angels - 2002
Toronto Blue Jays - 1992, 1993

Montreal Expos (Washington Nationals) - Never
Washington Senators (Texas Rangers) - Never
Seattle Mariners - Never
Tampa Bay Devil Rays - Never

So hold out hope in the fact that the Rangers, Nationals, Mariners and Devil Rays won't be going anytime soon.

Teams who have won the World Series since the Cubs last won:

Pittsburgh Pirates
Philadelphia Athletics
Boston Red Sox
Boston Braves
Cincinnati Reds
Cleveland Indians
New York Giants
New York Yankees
Washington Senators
St. Louis Cardinals
Detroit Tigers
Brooklyn Dodgers
Milwaukee Braves
Los Angeles Dodgers
Baltimore Orioles
New York Mets
Oakland Athletics
Philadelphia Phillies
Kansas City Royals
Minnesota Twins
Toronto Blue Jays
Atlanta Braves
Florida Marlins
Arizona Diamondbacks
Anaheim Angels
Chicago White Sox

Take solace in knowing that the St. Louis Browns, Montreal Expos, Kansas City Athletics, Seattle Pilots, Houston Colt .45s namesakes don't exist anymore so they can't best you.

Pray that the Giants don't win one in San Fransisco, the Seattle Mariners, San Diego Padres, Houston Astros, Milwaukee Brewers, Texas Rangers, Tampa Bay Rays and Washington Nationals don't reach that mountain top.

And root as hard as you can against the 2007 Colorado Rockies.

39 teams have existed in 1 form or another since the Cubs last won a World Series.

All but 14 of those teams have done what the Cubs have not.

It's not even really fair anymore. No fan deserves that much suffering.

"Well, you wait for a strike. Then you knock the shit out of it. - Musial to Flood on how to hit a curveball

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 16, 2007 2:17 AM EDT reply actions

Do you really want to poke the (small) bear?

The scary thing is that with the Cubs market size and fan base, with competent front-office management they could essentially pull a Yankees (or Red Socks) and crush the division.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Oct 16, 2007 6:27 AM EDT up reply actions

....thats just.... sad?

hardcore, thanks for that post..I feel mo' better.

Gooooo Clint! I remember a photo of Clint in SN after a walk off homer (GS maybe?) sitting on a bed in a cheesy little KC hotel (where he lived during the season) with 5-6 different newspapers spread out on the bed in front of him with a photo of him hitting the HR. Burger King bag in the middle of the bed too. He must have done some driving to find every area news rag that day.

Had the same big, goofy smile on his face tonight.

Youth movement or not, I want Carpenter, Speezio JEd and Rolen back in '08...yeah, those old guys that play the game like pros.

by cardschinmusic on Oct 16, 2007 7:22 AM EDT up reply actions

Sorry, gotta be picky

The Kansas City Royals were an expansion franchise as well. The fact that they were good so early in their history (George Brett played a small part in that) helps to cover up their humble origins.

The Minnesota Twins didn't "break away" from the Senators. The Washington AL franchise moved to the Twin Cities and was replaced by a new expansion team.

That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.

Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time.

by Solanus on Oct 16, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions