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Hook, Line, and Sinker

houstoncardinal is away for the weekend, celebrating his anniversary. so he e-mailed me this post during the week. nlcs game thread to come later today. --- lb

by houstoncardinal

During Braden Looper's hot start (a 1.91 ERA in April), he was very distinctly a ground ball pitcher, with a GO/AO ratio of 1.5/1. His May wasn't nearly so good (5.35 ERA), though his ground ball rate increased to 2.2/1. Soon thereafter he tired and spent a couple weeks on the DL. In his initial start upon returning, he registered 10 groundouts to 8 flyball outs. At that point, however, his pitching pattern changed: he became much more of a fly ball pitcher throughout the rest of the year. The numbers below reflect his stats during the time in which he was a groundball pitcher, and the time in which he was a flyball pitcher.

IP H ER BB K HR ERA K/9 HR/9 GO AO
More ground balls 88 85 48 29 44 15 4.91 4.50 1.53 146 72
More fly balls 86.2 96 47 22 43 7 4.88 4.47 0.73 84 132
Avg Game Score Median Game Score
More ground balls 47.93 51
More fly balls 46.60 55

Clearly, there's not a great deal of difference between the starts. The top row gasically reflects Looper's first half, while the bottom row reflects the second half. As the season went along, as I said last week, he began to throw more sliders, but he also clearly began working up in the strike zone more frequently. A couple of things really stand out to me, aside from the similarities, and those are a) his walks were fairly significantly lower when he was getting more fly balls, and b) his HR/9 was cut in half. The walks can perhaps be explained by surmising that when he was trying to get ground balls, he was likely to miss low frequently, thus leading to more walks. I can only guess that his home run rate is lower b/c, when trying to get ground balls, if he didn't miss low and out of the strike zone, he missed thigh-high where he could be drilled. When he changed his pattern, perhaps he was able to miss up where hitters couldn't make good contact. Perhaps they were looking for pitches at the knees and couldn't adjust to them just above the belt. In any case, it's an interesting development.

Looper's pattern distinctly changed beginning with his July 7 start in San Francisco. It's such a marked change in his pattern that it's impossible to believe that it was anything but purposeful. In 11 of his final 15 starts he had more fly balls than ground balls --- and, interestingly, 7 of those 11 starts were at home. Here are Looper's numbers for the 11 starts in which he had more fly balls than ground balls after his pattern changed:

IP H ER BB K HR ERA K/9 HR/9 GO AO
64.3 64 29 14 35 4 4.06 4.90 0.56 58 100

His average game score for these 11 starts was 50.73 and his median game score was 61. It is, of course, not a tremendously large sample size, but it is enough to determine a noticeable trend.

So, is Looper really a better pitcher when he gets more fly balls? Maybe. But guess what....Dave Duncan seems to think so. This isn't a random back-and-forth. The fact that 11 of his first 15 starts had more ground balls than fly balls and 11 of his last 15 starts had more fly balls than ground balls tells me that a conscious decision was made to alter his pattern (add to it the increased use of the slider) in order to have more success. It seems to contradict everything we know about the Cardinals organization, but it is unimaginable to me that this distinct change in Looper's pattern could have occurred w/o Duncan's tutelage.

If it can work for Looper, why can't it work for others? I first noticed that this might work when I was perusing pitchers' stats and noticed that Chris Young of the Padres was having a sensational year on the mound and had the lowest GB% of any starting pitcher in baseball. Coincidence? Maybe, but intuitively, it makes some sense. Young pitches in one of the best pitcher's parks in baseball - Petco Park. B/c Petco is so tough on homers, it makes sense that a Padres' pitcher could get away with throwing so many fly balls. What become homers in other parks are medium-deep fly balls in Petco. Ground balls find holes (thus the luck component of BABIP). Chris Young's BABIP this year -- .246. His HR/9 was 0.52, despite having the 2nd highest FB% in baseball.

Maybe Chris Young is an aberration? Here are the numbers from some of baseball's best pitchers this year:

VORP FIP GB%
Peavy 77.0 2.80 45.4
Webb 66.1 3.19 63.6
Sabathia 65.2 3.27 47.6
Carmona 64.0 4.05 64.8
Penny 61.7 3.63 50.6
Oswalt 59.8 3.54 54.4
Beckett 58.6 3.22 47.9
Santana 57.7 3.96 39.5
Smoltz 56.7 3.10 47.0

Looper's GB% this year was 44.4%. Certainly one thing that separates these pitchers from Looper is their K/9. Looper's was 4.47, considerably lower than anyone else on the list. I'm not at all trying to suggest that, with a full year of pitching up in the zone as well as down, Looper will become one of the top pitchers in the game. But this list does demonstrate that throwing every pitch at the knees is not mandatory if one is going to be successful. It is possible to be a fly ball pitcher and be successful. In fact, only 3 of the top 10 pitchers in VORP were also in the top 10 in baseball in GB% -- Carmona, Webb, and Tim Hudson.

It seems to me that, like Chris Young, teams are more able to get away with having fly ball pitchers in parks like Petco - that reduce homers. In fact, only 1 park suppressed homers more than Petco - Washington's RFK stadium. Guess which stadium was 3rd in baseball in suppressing homers - Busch III. Busch III's park factor for home runs is .717; Petco's is .685. AT&T Park in San Francisco, long noted as a pitcher's park, had a park factor for homers of .808. Shea Stadium's was .900; Dodger Stadium's (long thought of as a pitcher's park - and it is...for everything except homers) was 1.052. (Anything below 1.000 favors the pitchers.) Think this was an aberration? In 2006, Busch III's park factor for homers was .887 (19th in baseball).

So it's clear that Busch III is a pitcher's park that suppresses homers. Shouldn't we attempt to build a pitching staff with that in mind? Before the '07 season we considered several pitchers in the free agent market - the three most notable were Jason Schmidt, Miguel Batista and Jeff Weaver. As we all know by now, none of them had a good year at all. Schmidt got injured, Batista was mediocre, at best, and Weaver was simply craptastic. One pitcher we could have pursued but didn't was Ted Lilly, who ultimately signed with the Cubs for a relatively sane 4 years, $40 million. As it turned out, Lilly had a very good year. His biggest problem prior to this year was his inability to throw strikes consistently but in '07 he walked a paltry 2.39 batters per nine innings. The other problem, of course, was that he is a fly ball pitcher - thus, we had no interest. His groundball % this year was 36.2% -- right in line with his career numbers. Nevertheless, he finished '07 as the Cubs' best pitcher, with a VORP of 46.7 and a FIP of 4.16, 16th in the NL. Is he a star? Certainly not, but he is better than all but one of the starters on the Cards' staff right now.

Pitching exclusively at the knees does seem to make sense if you have a fastball like Looper's -- between 87-90 with some sink. But while his fastball has nowhere near the velocity of Carmona's fastabll, his sinker has nothing approaching the quality of Webb's sinker. If Looper stays exclusively at the knees, hitters can adjust, go get the ball, and hit it hard. They figured out the book on him and had much greater success after his first few starts - thus, the need for a change in Looper's approach. If he also pitches at the top of the zone occasionally, those pitches at the knees become much tougher to hit. Likewise, if they're looking to hit the pitch at the knees, hitters get under the pitches at the top of the zone and pop them up. In Philadelphia or Cincinnati, this probably isn't that good an idea. Medium fly balls become homers in those parks. In St. Louis, they're as good as a bouncer to short.

This is really about the bigger picture - it's not about Looper or Reyes so much as it's about Adam Ottavino, the pitchers the Cards will draft next summer, and the pitchers they'll pursue in free agency this offseason and in the future.

This summer the Cards (arguably) reached when they chose Clayton Mortensen in the supplemental round of the draft. He's got a very good sinker and has had a very good start to his minor league career. But the fact that he was probably chosen 2-3 rounds too early is an indicator of the importance the organization places on the sinker. Adam Ottavino had a rough 1st half this year as he was trying to adjust to throwing the sinker. I've mentioned the fact that the Cards' brass basically ignored Ted Lilly last year on the free agent market b/c he didn't throw it.

It would seem that there are teams who should place a greater emphasis on throwing sinkers and keeping the ball down. However, I'm not certain that the Cardinals are one of them. In fact, considering that it is so difficult to hit homers in Busch III, perhaps the Cards are one organization that can eschew the conventional wisdom toward looking for sinkerballers and seek pitchers who can also pitch up in the zone. If we develop a sound defensive OF, there's no reason to think that getting fly balls can't be as good as, or even better than, ground balls. Ground balls find holes far more often than fly balls do. That's one reason Looper's BABIP went down as he began working up in the zone more often.

So this post is meant to challenge the organizational philosophy that throwing sinkers is always best. The Cards have a park that suppresses homers. We should take advantage of it. Sinkers are OK, but they shouldn't be the organizational focus --- the sine qua non, as Matthew Leach described it two spring trainings ago. The Cards, more than most, should be able to take advantage of pitchers who pitch up in the zone - fly balls that are homers in Philadelphia are outs in St. Louis, whereas ground balls may become hits anywhere. Of course, we will have to pitch on the road 81 times, but so do the Padres. They won 89 games despite playing a bunch of them in homer havens such as Coors Field, Dodger Stadium, and Chase Field. And you could hardly blame their pitching for their failure to make the playoffs.

The best part of this change in philosophy would be, of course, that it would open the door to pitchers that the Cardinals aren't currently considering. Why are we shutting the door on so many pitchers when we can make use of them, either as free agents, trade targets, or potential draftees? Who will be next year's Ted Lilly? Or 2009's? In 2009, Oliver Perez will be a free agent. He'll be 28. This year he had the highest fly ball % in the big leagues, but his VORP was 37.2, his SNLVAR was 4.0, and his FIP was 4.36. He's not a star, but he's young, left-handed, and above average --- and he does have a high K rate. But will we completely ignore him simply b/c of his low GB%? Hopefully the next GM will insist on changing this organizational philosophy. We may have fallen for it - hook, line, and sinker - but an outsider won't have.

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nice analysis
But I still do not think the following statement is rock solid:
>>... but it is unimaginable to me that this distinct change in Looper's pattern could have occurred w/o Duncan's tutelage.<<

D. Duncan had a ton of issues to deal with at the time Looper made the change, many holes to plug in the rotation.  Injuries, new starters, etc.  Looper's leverage was high to freelance knowing Duncan really couldn't do much about it (i.e., they had to leave Looper in the rotation as long as he was moderately effective).  Also, Duncan has always given more deference to vets to deviate from his program than newcomers.  D. Duncan does not dictate pitches to a Looper the same way he does to a Reyes.  Then again, maybe your point is that we have been too hard on Duncan under the assumption that he is an unbendable authoritarian.  That could be.  Maybe Duncan is more flexible than publicly perceived.

Bottom line: we don't know if Duncan is open minded to a young pitcher pitching up in the zone as part of his standard arsenal.  I'd say the evidence is quite the contrary not withstanding what happened with Looper late in the 2007 season.

by jjray on Oct 14, 2007 10:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My point was that
Duncan saw a need in Looper and, along with Looper, modified Looper's style of pitching. If Duncan is that flexible w/ Looper, why can't he be w/ others? These changes occurred immediately after Looper got rocked by the A's and Angels and Looper spent two weeks on the DL. It is unimaginable that Looper made such a significant change w/o Duncan having any input -- or against Duncan's wishes. Looper was struggling too much at the time for Duncan to have ignored him. It was his first year starting and he was struggling. There is no way that Duncan was intimately involved in what was going on.

by chuckb on Oct 14, 2007 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This should say
no way that Duncan was NOT intimately involved in what was going on.

by chuckb on Oct 14, 2007 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duncan saw a need
>>Duncan saw a need in Looper and, along with Looper, modified Looper's style of pitching.<<

Still supposition on your part.  How do you know "Duncan saw a need"?  There is no evidence that Duncan initiated the change.  None. Nada.  Could have been Looper, another Cards starter, Yadi, a bench coach, Josh the bat boy, Looper's aunt Matilda who studied film.  We don't know.  Fine, we all speculate.  But it's speculation.  Although the reasoning is stronger, it also still speculation that D. Duncan acquiesced from inception in the change.  Looper could have made a change w/o telling Dave, had success, and Duncan went with the flow (because he had no other option, Looper had to stay in the rotation).  

I'll give one additional reason why your supposition that this move to pitch up in the zone  came from Duncan: Looper pitched 7 years in the major leagues for other organizations and pitching coaches other than Dave Duncan.  In times of trouble players go back to approaches that have worked for them in the past.  It's an old axiom in baseball.  Braden is the most likely source for the change in approach in my view.

by jjray on Oct 14, 2007 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting numbers...
For what it's worth, I think Dave Duncan's success at "rehabilitating" pitchers is based upon identifying what that particular pitcher does well, and then having that pitcher "pitch to his strengths."

For example, DD convinced Darryl Kile to throw his killer curveball more... since that was DK's best pitch. Looper is a borderline "power" pitcher (decent "giddy-up" on his fastball, fair slider, etc.) Perhaps it took half a season of starting for Dunc and/or Loop to figure out he needed to "spot" the ball "up and down" as well as "in and out" to be effective.

But if a guy's best pitch is his sinker, he's still better off throwing that! (I know, Duncan's "magic" doesn't always work... but nobody else's does, either!)

By the way (I know I've mentioned this before,) Duncan is under contract with the Birds through the 2008 season...

Despite all that, I'd still like to see the Birds acquire another quality starter, if at all possible.

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Oct 14, 2007 10:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Busch III
Let me start by saying that I somewhat agree with the argument, but I am a teacher...so I will play devil's advocate:

Point 1

Could another factor in Busch III having such a low HR rate be that the Cardinals organization tries to find pitchers who don't give up fly balls, and thus don't give up as many homers?  The very philosophy that many people here are arguing against may, in fact, be a very good reason why it   seems to be a pitcher's park in St. Louis.

A look at ground ball to fly ball ratios:

2004 Cardinals - 1.47 GO/AO - 1890 GO to 1371 AO
2005 Cardinals - 1.72 GO/AO - 2017 GO to 1280 AO
2006 Cardinals - 1.39 GO/AO - 1831 GO to 1430 AO
2007 Cardinals - 1.19 GO/AO - 1739 GO to 1565 AO

It looks as if the Cardinals have gone away from the ground ball pitchers a bit in the last couple of years at Busch III already and they have taken a huge hit in pitching, going from some of the top pitching teams in the league to either the middle of the pack or worse.  This might actually be counter productive to my point, but that's okay...it sheds a little light on another subject - the pitching in general.

Point 2

Could it also be that a lot of the home run hitters that the Cardinals have had the last few years are playing hurt, or just flat out on the DL?  The Cardinals' injuries are also well documented on this site.  If you look at the fact that the last few years in Busch II, the Cardinals had these people hitting _ home runs:

2004 Pujols - 79 games - 18 home runs
2005 Pujols - 81 games - 23 home runs
2006 Pujols - 72 games - 24 home runs
2007 Pujols - 78 games - 12 home runs

2004 Rolen - 75 games - 10 home runs
2005 Rolen - 35 games - 2 home runs
2006 Rolen - 73 games - 12 home runs
2007 Rolen - 60 games - 4 home runs

2004 Edmonds - 77 games - 24 home runs
2005 Edmonds - 76 games - 15 home runs
2006 Edmonds - 54 games - 11 home runs
2007 Edmonds - 61 games - 5 home runs

2004 Sanders - 69 games - 8 home runs
2004 Walker - 22 games - 5 home runs
2005 Sanders - 47 games - 14 home runs
2005 Walker - 53 games - 9 home runs
  (and the guys to replace them)
2005 Duncan - 6 games - 1 home run
2006 Duncan - 39 games - 9 home runs
2006 Encarnacion - 77 games - 10 home runs
2007 Duncan - 67 games - 8 home runs
2007 Encarnacion - 36 games - 5 home runs

2007 Ludwick - 59 games - 7 home runs
2007 Ankiel - 25 games - 9  home runs

With many of these home runs hitters injured or aging, the Cardinals simply are no longer a home run hitting team.

Look at the totals:

2004 - 93 homers in 81 games at Busch II
2005 - 92 homers in 81 games at Busch II
2006 - 85 homers in 80 games at Busch III
2007 - 62 homers in 81 games at Busch III

Meanwhile our pitchers have given up:

2004 - 77 homers in 81 games at Busch II
2005 - 82 homers in 81 games at Busch II
2006 - 91 homers in 80 games at Busch III
2007 - 67 homers in 81 games at Busch III

So the total HR at the stadiums is:

2004 Busch II - 170 home runs
2005 Busch II - 174 home runs
2006 Busch III - 176 home runs
2007 Busch III - 129 home runs

Interesting.

stlfan

by stlfan on Oct 14, 2007 10:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Man I love this blog
You don't just get good analysis from the main writers - you get it from the readers, too.

Pujols stats draw my attention.  BUT.  I'd sure like to know why SO MANY people around the league had a down year in home runs.  

by sdrone on Oct 14, 2007 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Humidors maybe?
It seems that every team is now storing the balls in conditioned atmospheres.

http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071012&content_id=2263378&vkey=news_c ol&fext=.jsp&c_id=col

It would be nice if the article bothered to state what those control conditions actually are.  In STL they need to be taking the humidity out.

Next the players need to be looking to the conditions of their bats.  I'll bet that they never realized they used to be left in un-conditioned dugouts and lockers, and are now in air conditionned clubhouses that keep the moisture content lower, and the wood does not have the same resilience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2ubBH-QL0g

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Oct 14, 2007 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Coors
I believe only Coors is using the humidor, I don't think others are.

by StLHugo on Oct 14, 2007 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

extracted from the linked article:
"Major League Baseball stopped short of mandating all teams adopt such an apparatus, but the move toward standardization continued in 2007, as all 30 teams are storing baseballs in controlled environments."
Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Oct 14, 2007 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mythbusters
did a test on the humidor and said that this year all teams would use it.

also the test showed, I believe, about a 25% reduction in distance.

by Harknights on Oct 14, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Humidor Effect
is much less than 25% reduction in distance.  As much as I enjoy he Mythbuster boys, if they said a 25 percent reduction, they missed that boat.  If the use of the humidor actually had that large of an impact, the entire game would be catastrophically affected as you'd be facing roughly an 80 to 100 feet reduction in flyball distances.  

There are a number of good physics analyses that have been conducted under controlled conditions where the impact of relative humidity level upon the baseball's coefficient of restitution (one of the primary physical properties controlling how far the ball travels off the bat, all else being equal) was studied.  Under rather extreme limits of relative humidity (i.e. going from 0% to 100% RH at 77 degF), the maximum reduction in distance resulting from the decrease in coefficient of restitution is only 28-30 feet.  Perhaps the Mythbusters' test reults were 25 feet and not 25 percent reduction?  That would be much more consistent with known results.

In a more typical, real world condition where the ballpark differences in relative humidity are MUCH smaller (between, say Busch III and Coors Field where RH differences of about 20 to 30 percent would be about right), the difference in travel distance is only about 6 to 12 feet, or approximately a 3 to 5 percent reduction.  While this doesn't sound like a lot, that amount of reduction will certainly result in significantly fewer homeruns and a lot more warning track outs.

A couple of easy reading resources for this information are:

(1.) R. Adair, "The Physics of Baseball", 1990

and

(2.) Kagan & Atkinson, "The Coefficient of Restitution of Baseballs as a Function of
Relative Humidity", 2004.

Happy reading!

"Requiescat In Pace - 2007 Zombie Cardinals"

by AustinBOB on Oct 14, 2007 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Park Factor
Your analysis is a bit flawed I think.

Park Factors are based on HRs given up and hit both at home and on the road then take the ration.  If that ratio is below 1 you have a pitchers park.

Thus if we give up few HRs we should also give up few on the road if it is our pitchers doing it and if we hit few we should also hit few on the road.  The end result is that we hit fewer and give up few HRs at home then on the road thus we have a pitchers park.

Park factors have nothing to do with total HRs give up just the ratio.

by StLHugo on Oct 14, 2007 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Formula
Here is the Park Factor Formula:

PF = ((homeRS + homeRA)(homeG)) / ((roadRS + roadRA)(roadG))

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2007

For HR you replace R with HR and calculate the same thing.

The only thing Busch is a hitters park in is a slight advantage in hits and triples (I think the right field area might be conducive bad hops) but for the most part it is very much an even park, most things in the 1.0 or .9 range with only HR breaking out.

Last season Busch suppressed everything and Triples were way suppressed.  I can't wait to see what the park looks like over 5+ years so we can have a definite look at it.

by StLHugo on Oct 14, 2007 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bring in the fences
How many years of Pujols' prime do we have to subject to accumulation of proof before they decide to bring in the fences?  Many parks have made this change after just two seasons including Busch II (were they wrong?).
Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Oct 14, 2007 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

...great stuff
The last 10 posts made my morning, thanks stlfan and readers! good stuff!
Youth movement or not, I want Carpenter, Speezio JEd and Rolen back in '08...yeah, those old guys that play the game like pros.

by cardschinmusic on Oct 15, 2007 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Throw out 2007
If we're deciding whether or not Busch III is a pitchers park or not, I don't think we should include this season's homerun totals.  stlfan pointed out that the home team's power hitters were playing hurt, or out of the lineup quite often. But what about the home team's pitching staff?  The Cardinals used a makeshift rotation all season, with converted relievers, other teams' discards, and without Chris Carpenter.  I don't think it's a fair comparison.

by qwikimport on Oct 14, 2007 11:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Park Factors
As with others here, I have a bit of skepticism about park factors measured over the course of a single year.

But its still a great analysis.  What it really indicates to me is that Loop could be a lot better if he simply doesn't settle into a pattern of too many sinkers or sliders.

Another great post HC.  What is this 4 for 4.  All home runs?  You are the Mark Whitten of the baseball blogdom.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Oct 14, 2007 11:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Uh oh
HoustonCardinal - I hope that Zubin did not jinx you.  Whiten went 4-5 that day with 4 homers.  So, by his logic, you're due for a pop-foul to third on your next post.

:)

stlfan

by stlfan on Oct 14, 2007 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not to change the subject
because HC did another stellar job --- i agree w/ the posters above --- but derrick goold is live-blogging the World Record Baseball Game over at Bird Land. great stuff; i recommend it. during the overnight shift, one team's shortstop successfully executed the hidden-ball trick twice --- which, alone, should qualify this exercise for guinness.

but goold declines to list his stats for the game so far. for all we know, he's 0 for 12 w/ 11 strikeouts. . . .

the record-setting moment is about 5 hours away now, per the official game clock.

goold's blog: http://www.stltoday.com/blogs/category/sports-bird-land/

game clock / live video stream: http://www.worldrecordbaseballgame.com/

by lboros on Oct 14, 2007 12:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Is there enough evidence?
Is the sample size here and the difference large enough to rule out random variation?

by cariocacardinal on Oct 14, 2007 4:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that's a pretty stark split
between GO/AO rates in each portion of the season.  80 innings will always contain some level of noise but given the extreme change evidenced, it looks like more than just variation.

by azruavatar on Oct 14, 2007 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think, perhaps, that in focusing on the park
factor, people here are missing the larger point.  The info I provided on park factor is meant to explain the larger point.  Maybe 1 year park factors aren't enough but the stadium has suppressed homers for 2 years (though, in 2006, not to the degree that it did in '07).

The larger point is that Looper was as good, or better, when he began pitching up in the strike zone.  This runs contrary to everything the Cardinal organization holds holy.  Their dependence on the sinker and keeping pitches around the knees affects who they draft, who they seek in free agency, and how they develop their pitchers.  And here we have a good example where a starting pitcher made a dramatic change in his pitching style -- away from the one the Cards' organization advocates -- and toward one the Cards' organization shuns.  And it worked!  

Was it b/c Busch III suppresses homers?  Maybe.  Was it b/c Looper was able to change the batters' eye levels, thus making it harder for batters to square up the ball?  Maybe.  Was it b/c Looper's fastball up in the zone is better than his sinker?  Maybe.  The point is that the Cards' organization is being short-sighted in their dependence on sinkerball pitchers.  

Busch III appears to be more of a pitchers' park than a hitters' park.  The Cards' organization should take advantage of it.  Even if it's not, Looper's success, as well the limited evidence that Busch III is a pitchers' park, tells us that the Cardinals, desperately in need of pitchers, should expand their options -- in their farm system, the draft, and in free agency.

by chuckb on Oct 14, 2007 6:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well said..
I totally agree.

by qwikimport on Oct 14, 2007 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its interesting that the team really does
seem to have diffrent standards for diffrent pitchers.  There was a comment somewhere, I don't remember where, that duncan wanted Pinero to use his sinker less often and use the straight FB more.

I just cannot reconcile this flexibility with the one size fits all we seem to take with prospects.  

by DriverZn on Oct 14, 2007 6:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I should have added
We only seem to give potential superstar prospects a chance.  However, Tony/Dave see to want no part of Fringe to average prospects.  However, if those prospects go elsewhere, have a flash of success followed by a few years of failure we will hapily take them back at that point and suddenly have the flexibility to work with them.

Why cannot we just work with them at the start?  Do we really need to prove to them they are failures first?  I just get the feeling that Tony and Dave don't like guys that have not struggled in the past.

by DriverZn on Oct 14, 2007 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

another look at looper
I agree that there may be some merit to reevaluating our emphasis on groundball pitchers, but I don't think that looper became more effective when he changed his approach.

I also think that a better day to draw the line between his approaches is his June 9th start. Before that day, he never allowed more flyballs than groundballs. Probably we should throw out his "transistion" starts in June and July, but all this is a matter of subjectivity.

The way I draw the lines gives sample sizes of 72.2 innings and 100 innings. He pitched almost a half inning less per game starting with June 9. His FB/GB ratio changes from .54 to 1.16.

If i knew how to make a table, I would, but this format will have to suffice. Keep in mind that these data are per game played, which is a rough way of showing trends, but the data was readily available and importable to excel from hardball times.

SO/game
3.25 to 2.66

BB/game
2.00 to 1.66

LD/game
4.16 to 4.22

WPA was down
+1.138 total before to -.985 after

HR/game is generally not a controllable stat acording to ussmariner. http://ussmariner.com/2006/08/29/evaluating-pitcher-talent/

I would read that article for a good analysis.

Hits were up and earned runs/game were way up.

At even the most conventional level of analysis, they knocked him out earlier and scored lots more runs off him after he switched strategies. So, any way you look at it, he was less effective. I retain that a large part of my analysis can be attributed to my decision to change the dividing date. I think my position is defensible though. Here's the per game data:

1
0.625
0.875
0.25
0.6
0.3
0.444444444
0.4
0.777777778
0.777777778
0.5
0.285714286
----------
1.25
1.142857143
0.727272727
1.166666667
2
0.8
1.714285714
0.25
0.9
3
0.285714286
2
0.75
1.714285714
4
1.833333333
1.833333333
0.583333333

by johnstonburg on Oct 14, 2007 9:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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