ALCS Game 2 Open Thread
by lboros on Oct 13, 2007 9:37 AM EDT
in St. Louis Cardinals News
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19-6, 3.06 |
9-8, 3.87 |
screw major-league baseball. the rockies and dbacks staged a tense playoff mini-classic last night, and almost nobody got to see it. i myself turned off the set at midnight (mountain time), after the dbacks tied it at 2 in the bottom of the 9th; it was 1 a.m. in st louis by then, and 2 a.m. on the east coast. the game ended in the 11th, nearly an hour later. here's how the winning rally went: infield hit, flyout, walk, popup, walk, walk. judging from the game log, it looks like jose valverde flat-out choked: the first two walks came on 3-2 counts, but the one that forced in the winning run was on 4 pitches.
i can only guess, because i didn't see it. neither did a large segment of the long-suffering fans out here in denver. and without question not many kids got to watch it. picture yourself at age 10, with the cards in the playoffs for the first time in your (literally) life, missing all the drama of a classic game because it transpires after you've fallen asleep or have been sent to bed. that's where a lot of kids find themselves in this town --- not to mention the 40somethings like me who, at the end of a work week, are lucky to stay sentient through the 10 o'clock news. by the top of the 9th inning, i was falling asleep between pitches; i was asleep for most of the 1st batter in the bottom of that inning.
plenty of fans made it to the bitter end, but a lot of us didn't --- and that's just here in denver. if you're a baseball fan in cincinnati or dc or minneapolis or st louis, why make the effort? i've followed the rockies pretty closely all year, and i'm about as committed a fan as this sport has --- and i voluntarily walked out on one of its showcase events because they couldn't put it on at a decent hour. i'm sure i wasn't the only one.
like i said, screw mlb.
but god bless the brave souls who are staging a different type of through-the-night baseball marathon. i don't know how i missed this, but a bunch of st louisans are attempting this weekend to set a record for the longest baseball game ever played. derrick goold is playing centerfield on one of the teams; he blogged about it thursday and again yesterday. the first pitch was thrown about 5 minutes ago, per the game's official website. the action is being streamed live at this link. they're playing at TR Hughes Ballpark in O'Fallon; the web site has directions to the park. if you want to go down and witness baseball history, the record-breaking moment will occur at 2:06 p.m. tomorrow afternoon. proceeds will go to Gene Slay's Boys' Club in St. Louis; the fundraising goal of is $100,000.
the top of the 1st just ended ---- no score, one man stranded. . . . .
per the p-d, the cards are in negotiations with joel pineiro on a multiyear deal. . . . . that's not encouraging. are they going to bring back everybody from this wretched team?
SB Nation chat for tonight's game:
Over the Monser
Let's Go Tribe
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Comments
Blecch.
I'm beginning to think that DeWitt may have a vision for the future of this team, but he lacks the balls to take the plunge and damn the short term consequences.
You know what?
by the red baron on Oct 13, 2007 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
i think you were right the first time, red
pineiro pitched so-so for the cards in a very small sample; his era of 3.96 for the cards is misleading. his FIP for the cards was 4.80, and his OPS allowed was .805. he benefited from an inordinately high strand rate (80 percent); when that regresses to the mean, his ERA will go up. i watched him pitch --- he got hit hard. i think if he posts a 4.50 era over a full season, we'd have to consider ourselves lucky . . . . . just a waste of roster space, imho.
Even if the club wants Pineiro, what's the rush?
Maybe a bit harsh lboros but I see where you are coming from. My problem with it is that they seem to be rushing out to sign Joel Pineiro. Why? If D. Duncan is back as pitching coach, then a one year deal makes sense to me. Pineiro has the tools to work within the Duncan system and could be a guy like Woody Williams who thrives under the Duncan system. Well, expecting Joel P to morph into Woody W might be a large wish but the thought at least helps explain why they go after Pineiro. Why the rush though? Is Mozielak that much in a hurry to play GM before DeWitt finds him a boss? Pineiro or a reasonable equivalent will be hanging around months from now. Let the dust settle on the GM / coaching situations and then decide about the pitching staff.
Why rush?
I think not signing Suppan to an extension in August of 2006 still stings.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 13, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
well
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 13, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
exclusive bidding rights of average
... One would hope Mozeliak is not making signings now at the behest of TLR / D. Dunc.
hire a GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
word has it that woodfork....
This could be true or not true, but it's just my friend's take and he's usually pretty on the money.
Well...
He also says that Rick Hahn will employ the exact same strategy that got us in this mess.
Antonetti is my first choice anyway, but Woodfork would make me much happier than the likely options listed above.
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 13, 2007 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
a couple of years ago
You do the time-zone math.
Couldn't agree more, Larry. Hope lots of folks out there have Tivo.
Have the Cardinals learned nothing
A multi year for Joel?
What is the point of finding free players and giving them a multi-year?
Who cares
I'm not expecting a much better team next year than we had this year, especially if LaRussa is coming back. We're not gonna snag any of the high-end free agents, we have few pieces to put together a decent trade and who knows if any of our prospects are going to be ready to make the leap to the big club. I expect it'll be another year of dumpster-diving to fill out an already expensive roster.
Feeling a little bitter about things this morning...
LongesT Baseball game
any idea
as random as the strike zone has been
ok, i really need to start paying attention
sigh.
The poitn stands, though, especially after watching some of the strikes called for papelbon tonight. 8 inches outside? whatevah.
Pineiro
Z, boggs and / or garcia might be ready
they've already got ryan franklin under contract --- he oupitched pineiro in 2004-05 (when they were teammates) and outpitched him as a reliever over the last two years. he's already on the roster, on a pretty short-term deal . . . . i don't see how pineiro upgrades the team.
opportunity cost
Okay... I see your point
I think a 2 year deal at a very reasonable rate would be a good idea. If it for a Franklin-esque $2-3M/ year if he tanks in the starting rotation, we can move him to the pen. And next year when Loop's contract is up we will still need an innings eater. I know the move doesn't make us any better, but it doesn't make us worse in what figures to be a rebuilding year.
Get over it with trashing Pineiro
what the deal might be), I have to question your judgment. You can quote peripheral statistics until you're blue in the face;I've seen the guy pitch and, although he's no world beater, he would be the Cardinals' number 3 pitcher if he signed, and that may be overly generous to Looper. Nobody, and I mean nobody, pitched as effectively as he did in that last start against the Mets, certainly not that disappointing flop Reyes (all right I'll grant you one or two comparable efforts by Wainwright but not in the pressure cooker of New York when the Mets, who had been hitting if not pitching, really needed to win). They can use him even if they make Franklin a starter, unless you really see them getting a major upgrade or two from a trade or free agency, which I can't envision at this point, given the current state of the roster.
by MikeG on Oct 13, 2007 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
and the problem is...
That is a great testament to just how bad our pitching is.
"Nobody, and I mean nobody, pitched as effectively as he did in that last start against the Mets, certainly not that disappointing flop Reyes (all right I'll grant you one or two comparable efforts by Wainwright but not in the pressure cooker of New York when the Mets, who had been hitting if not pitching, really needed to win)."
Let's not get all gushy over one start either. I seem to recall Mike Maroth twirling a gem against the Metropolitans as well.
Pineiro for anything longer than a 1 year deal is a monumental mistake...that's just the way it is.
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 13, 2007 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
MikeG, i'm not trashing the guy
your argument for re-signing him reminds me of the argument that many fans trotted out last winter in favor of re-signing jeff weaver --- ie, he pitched really well for a short stretch late in the previous year. some people thought the cards made a terrible mistake when they failed to re-sign him. but, predictably, weaver reverted to his below-average form in 2007. in my opinion, pineiro will do the same in 2008.
i don't think it would be a catastrophe if the cardinals re-signed him; a one-year deal would be less objectionable than a multiyear deal. i still don't see how it moves the organization forward.
another comp might be sidney ponson
but ponson's era was deceptively low --- he was getting hit hard (.827 ops allowed), but he got away with it for a while by stranding runners at an unsustainably high rate.
ponson came back to earth in short order and only lasted another month with the club. . . . .
ponson, weaver, wells, pineiro . . . . they were all good pitchers once upon a time.
Pitching
just because we have no "studs"
resigning joel, ECK or any of the other washed up free agents from the 06 team, are stupid moves that reaks of desperation.
It may be time for that old cliche
by MikeG on Oct 14, 2007 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions
i'm not worried about bill dewitt's budget either
moreover, as i wrote last week, opportunity cost is as big an issue as financial cost. pineiro is mediocre at best; if he signs for 3 years and is able to deliver mediocrity for all 3 years, that doesn't improve the organization --- it holds it back. he's using up a spot that might go to another pitcher who has some upside. read last week's post: if the cardinals had signed a free agent like miguel batista last off-season, theadam wainwright probably would have been bumped from the rotation and returned to his 8th-inning setup role. fortunately, the team resisted the temptation to squander the opportunity on a high-priced mediocrity and gave the opportunity to wainwright instead. that decision gave the organization a key building block moving forward.
i will grant there were no wainwrights at triple A last year. but there will be in 2008 --- boggs, mitchell, and walters will be joining hawksworth (who remains a prospect despite his poor season). the organization needs to create advancement opportunities for those guys, instead of tying up the opportunities in low-upside free agents.
a 1-year deal for pineiro, i could live with. but the word i've heard is that they're offering two guaranteed years with an option for a 3d.
A question about terminology
by MikeG on Oct 14, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
I think he can be a decent 5th starter for us. As long as the deal isn't something crazy for many years, I can live with Joel on the team next year.
It will be the re-signing of Eckstein that I won't be able to stomach. If we don't trade for Renteria then give Ryan the nod for the year unless we can get somebody in a trade later on.
We got REAL lucky with Eckstein for the first two years we had him. But he is clearly starting to fall apart physically and his performance is suffering as well. His throws to Albert at first are cringe worthy and his range is becomming a BIG problem. His re-signing would be the one of the worst the Cards will do if it happens. I DO NOT want to see him AND Kennedy both in the starting line-up come April.
Agree
by cardsgirl95 on Oct 13, 2007 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Pineiro...
He'd probably have a hard time throwing an ERA under 5. True, he MAY be a respectable 5th starter.
Problem is...we already have 3 of those guys on the roster (Loop, Franklin, Thompson, hell 4 if you count Reyes)
Spend money on a difference maker or don't spend it at all. The '09 free agent class is too good, and I don't want to get a mid level free agent instead of a premium one because we have 7M a year tied up in Pineiro.
It makes no sense to sign him, which is exactly whe the Good Ole Boy baseball network with have the deal done within the week.
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 13, 2007 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If multi-years
If we pay over $10 mi for him, however, I will not be a happy camper.
So...
Why not gamble by throwing a bunch of your league minimum guys in a pot and see you comes out. You can't tell me we have noone in the minors capable of throwing 5.00 ERA ball.
1 year deal I can live with anything beyond that is pure stupidity...which is why I expect it to happen very soon.
DeWitt needs to tell Mozeliak what interim means.
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 13, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
he COULD be a #5
Besides, the fact that they are negotiating doesn't mean anything is going to happen. For all we know Mo went in and offered 3Y/$12M and the agent laughed and that's the end of it. And it's not like we can start negotiating with any other FA's yet...
Kip Wells
He could very easily be the 5+ERA starter that he has been recently. Then you are stuck with him for three years.
Not a gamble I would take. Throw dollars at proven difference makers and fill out the fringes of your roster with cheap parts. That's the only way. This team can't afford another bad contract. Hell, they can't afford the ones they already have.
I prefer to gamble cheaply.
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 14, 2007 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
No, you're putting words into my mouth.
But if we get him at about $8 mil for two years, I'd be perfectly happy, yes. That's as much as we paid Kip Wells last year, and we're going to get good production from him. Plus, he's not a complete gamble. He showed us last year that he's capable of being a starter (unlike Wells), so it'd be a smart move to make.
Pineiro not too long ago was a solid number 2 guy. He had a few problems, but there's nothing saying that those years are gone from him. He could pitch like 3 or 4 guy, which would make him a "very decent" option at no. 5 in our rotation.
pineiro's last good year was 2003
but that doesn't mean i would want trachsel on my team, nor that he has any chance to revert to his former #2 status. what trachsel did in 2003 is pretty irrelevant today; ditto pineiro. lots of guys who were good in 2003 are useless now. pineiro is more useful than most of the guys on that list . . . . . but he's still not particularly useful. i don't see why the cards are in any rush to lock him up.
What?
How can you be so sure? He's been terrible for 2+ years now.
"He showed us last year that he's capable of being a starter (unlike Wells), so it'd be a smart move to make."
Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. Wells had a stretch in the middle of the season that was both better and more sustained than the stretch you claim shows us that Pineiro is capable of being a good starter.
He didn't pitch that well anyway. His ERA was respectable because of his freakish strand rate, as LB pointed out earlier. He won't sustain that. Batters hit nearly .300 against him with an OPS over .825 as a Cardinal. For the life of me, I can't figure out why so many are eager to give him a multi-year deal.
Must be that Duncan magic.
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 14, 2007 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree, Larry.
Re-signing Pineiro
The team clearly doesn't seem to be giving up on winning in the short term as they try to focus new efforts on the farm system. I think this is the direction they should go because, first, it's the only way to keep up revenues (and we need revenues in order to invest in younger players as well as veterans) and, second, it's the only way to make sure that the Cards "name" doesn't lose any more value. The Cards reputation can have a widespread impact not only on revunues but also on the ability both to retain veterans and to draw gifted young players.
by nycardfan on Oct 13, 2007 11:25 AM EDT reply actions
Nah
If this is there idea of staying competitive...then maybe they should give up on winning and focus on the farm system.
How can such a great franchise be so poorly ran?
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 13, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Still a bad move
He hasn't restored his value to me, because he has little to no value. He got lucky most of the year, and his numbers aren't repeatable. He had a 5.72 K/9, 1.57 HR/9, and 1.71 BB/9. (NL only) Only the walk numbers are comparable to the rest of his career. The home run numbers have been steadily increasing, and the K/9 is way out of line with previous seasons.
If I thought he'd be good in a few years, I'd be fine with the multi year deal, but I don't think he'll consistently be any kind of decent pitcher. Number four at best.
One player I've heard nothing about here
by jgist on Oct 13, 2007 11:28 AM EDT reply actions
I'm all for replacing Kennedy with anyone
It was a HUGE mistake letting Belliard go when we could have re-signed him really cheap on a one or two year deal. Belliard put up good number for the Nationals, while Kennedy was a complete BUST.
Barfield would have more upside than Kennedy but I'm not sold on Josh Barfield that much either, so far he is showing he doesn't have the talent like his old man had for the Blue Jays in the 80's. He can field but he just isn't showing he can be a quality MLB hitter.
There was more to letting Belliard go than that
In hindsight, Giles might've been better, but you can't blame Walt for trying to stop the revolving door that second base has been. You can blame him for signing the wrong guy, however.
Giles had a terrible year
by willievinceterry on Oct 13, 2007 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
by willievinceterry on Oct 13, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
low risk
Nate Silver
http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6824
Something that I caught my eye and was worried about before was what he said about the attendance:
"Their fans are extremely loyal, they won the World Series in 2006, and their stadium is shiny and new. In an ironic way, they have taken over the archetypal role of the Chicago Cubs, in which the fans are so inclined to turn out rain or shine that it reduces the marginal benefit from winning ballgames."
Wrigley always filled seats even though their team was has pretty much been worthless for 95% of the last 100 years. Call me fair weather but I certainly don't want to root for habitual cellar dwellers that are contempt being there.
Perhaps you meant to type
by nycardfan on Oct 13, 2007 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
sure did.
Dr. Acula
by player2bnamedl8r on Oct 13, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
what has two thumbs
Dr. Bob Kelso!
No real irony
thanks, Bud!
I work a night shift at a newspaper, and we finally gave up getting the game in at 1 a.m. ... I went home after posting the online edition and watched the rest of the game until 2 ... jose valverde did choke.
One of the best trades of the year is finally coming into play ... the Taveras-Jennings deal ... he went Jed earlier in the game and was in the middle of the offense all night. What was Houston thinking?????
by bbqbirdy on Oct 13, 2007 12:05 PM EDT reply actions
What I hate is this
And go figure usually the NLCS games are MUCH more competitive and closer games than the ALCS games, a perfect example would be last night's games.
Well...
by willievinceterry on Oct 13, 2007 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
I'd also like to add a comment to bbqbirdy. Baseball hasn't necesarily lost a generation of fans. The popularity of the game is actually on the rise. But then again, that's why it hurts so much to see idiotic boradcasting moves like this. These are perfect opportunities to capitalize and keep the growing fanbase, but alas, MLB find a way to screw this up.
I watched the game last night, sorta
I'm not even that old. Baseball needs to get it's act together.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 13, 2007 12:10 PM EDT reply actions
same with me....
pineiro
5.28 ERA, 171 hits in 150 ip, 53 BB, 80 K.
is that really what we want? why not just bring back kip wells while we are at it?
"bring back kip wells"
by yer dog first on Oct 13, 2007 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
"doesn't miss bats for the most part"
6.75 K/9
4.32 BB/9
.287 BA
Joel Pineiro
5.65 K/9
1.70 BB/9
.279 BA
Braden Looper
4.47 K/9
2.62 BB/9
.269 BA
Brad Thompson
3.69 K/9
2.78 BB/9
.301 BA
He struck out a batter less per 9 than Kippers, but walked 2+ batters less while giving up a lower oppponent BA.
I don't think Joel Pineiro is going to be a world beater and I don't think we should give him more than $5 M + incentives each of the next 2 years (with a team option for a 3rd) but I'd rather have Pineiro than any of the other 4. He fills up the strikezone, doesn't nibble. I'm sick of watching the Kip Wells and Anthony Reyes of the world dance around the strikezone.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 13, 2007 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Careful
by willievinceterry on Oct 13, 2007 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
thank you
2004- 4.70
2005- 5.48
2006- 6.21
2007- 3.94.
his walk rate was uncharacteristically low and his K/9 was up a strikeout per 9 his past few seasons. he reeks of flakiness to me.
"walk rate was uncharacteristically low"
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 13, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
with a dab
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 13, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
starting pitching
Reyes and Wells
Wow they are awful and I hear ya they try to hit way too many corners. I kind of understand with Anthony because frankly his stuff is not very good. Now Kip has a nice 95 MPH fastball with some move to it so I don't know why he messes around nibbling on the corners.
If those two guys step up at all the Cardinals probably make the playoffs.
They both got more than enough chances as well.
I don't like the idea either
- Excitement (Walt gone ~= spring training)
- WTF? (resign Eck, Pinero ~= offensive slump)
- Hope (new GM ~= late season run)
- Dissapointment (TLR/Duncan stay ~= we implode and miss the playoffs)
If Reyes is gone...
Wainwright
Looper
Pineiro
Mulder
Thompson
Then, the '09 rotation
Carpenter
Wainwright
<empty>
Pineiro
<empty>
Pineiro would be your replacement for Looper with a much higher ceiling.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 13, 2007 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Not good...
Looper
Pineiro
Mulder
Thompson"
This is just another terrible rotation. Wainwright is the only good starter of the bunch. Looper MAY MAY MAY be able to throw something resembling league average ball. Pineiro hasn't been worth a shit since 2003. Mulder? What in the world makes you think this guy can pitch again? Thompson, if he's proven something...it's that he's not very good.
A team with that rotation probably struggles to win 75 games.
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 14, 2007 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Sickening...
Springer's foolish contract, negotiating with Pineiro and Eck on long term deals. Tony staying...which means no forward thinking GM like Antonetti or Woodfork. Rick Hahn being interviewed?
The Cardinals are by far the most vanilla team in baseball. Nothing changes. They'll do everything they can to keep this 78 win squad in tact.
BTW, Larry, you said that I may be overeacting after the Springer signing and you wouldn't accuse them of the same 'ol same 'ol from that signing alone. Looks as if the news of Pineiro and Eck might have changed your mind. Is that a fair assessment?
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 13, 2007 12:57 PM EDT reply actions
I agreed with you Bobby
There is no "new" plan. There never was. DeWitt fired Jocketty because he was tired of the stress in the front office and was pissed Walt went crying to the national media about everything so he said "Well if you don't want to be here don't let the door hit you on the way out." I think that's pretty much it.
Also at this point what is the use of finding a new GM, buy the time they would hire someone, Mozeliak will have re-signed all of our vets to mulit-year deals so a new GM will be handcuffed with contracts of players that no other team will want for the next couple of years.
I hate to say it but right now the Cardinals are a mess. We're going to need a lot of luck and career years from many to contend next year.
PD Reporting that Encarnacion is likely finished
Joe Strauss said that he only recovered 20/400 vision so far (legally blind) in the afflicted eye. He's still in Boston (had to drive out there) but they'll reevaluate him when he gets back to St. Louis and see what's what.
Hmmm
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 13, 2007 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I know
Bad taste
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 13, 2007 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Still...
Also ... I really hope we don't make a run at Aaron Rowand. That would make zero sense at this point.
by willievinceterry on Oct 13, 2007 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow. That's really sad
If you're legally blind in one eye, does that make you a legally blind person? I don't really know how these things work. It's hard to believe that one minute he was waiting on deck and the next his career is over and life changed so dramatically.
This is going to sound cold-hearted
His decision will have an impact on what the Cardinals can and can't do in the FA market this coming year.
I wish him all the best in his life, though. I hope that this is an instance of an injury that as the years go by, the sight returns.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 13, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
doubtful
Would you? Nope, he'll sit back and collect his 6.5M like any other sane person would do.
by bobbyballgame1 on Oct 13, 2007 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Insurance
Isn't this what the Astros went through a few years back with Bagwell?
by 10worldchamps on Oct 13, 2007 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Nope.
Rats (or something stronger)
by 10worldchamps on Oct 14, 2007 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
very true. that's his money.
the Cards gave him that deal & they should pay him every dime. they gave the Kile family the rest of his contract when he died. there's no reason why they shouldnt do the same for Juan.
Not that it matters
Either way, I'm not suggesting Juan should get cheated out of what will have been his final payday. I was just wondering if he was going to retire and if the Cardinals were going to pay him the rest of the current contract or just buy him out.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 14, 2007 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
For example, I believe Mike Matheny got the second year of his contract, even though he retired. He retired because of what happened on the field.
I don't know whether these distinctions matter.
Does baseball have worker's comp?
I do believe you still get your MLB Players pension.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 14, 2007 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Rick Hahn
LB, I gotta say
by gbrusca on Oct 13, 2007 3:53 PM EDT reply actions
I'm in New York
In conclusion, screw MLB and their crazy start times.
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Oct 13, 2007 4:13 PM EDT reply actions
good streak
by raisin @ Viva El Birdos on Oct 13, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks!
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Oct 13, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Some new vision...
by DesmetMattdNYC on Oct 13, 2007 5:45 PM EDT reply actions
As long as we don't hire Frank Lane
Who knows, maybe Mozeliak is the next Bing Devine. He's got a good knowledge of the way the farm system and scouting works and seems to be an expert in finding talented 6 year minor league free agents.
I don't know that I would bank on that, but remember, Auggie didn't trust Bing (who had been toiling in the Cardinals front office from the lowly minors to the tippy top) because of his inexperience, hired Lane...who was all about making deals with known commodities (Red/Musial) for anything, really.
Musial almost went to Philly for Robin Roberts and the Cardinals almost went backwards another 15 years.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 13, 2007 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
how do you know
There are four ways that I can think of off the top of my head to build a winning franchise:
- Sign big-name free agents--of which there really aren't many available right now, at least in positions we need, and they always cost more than they are worth anyway, and WJ pissed away our resources the last two off seasons
- Trade for proven players or elite prospects--but doing that costs precious prospects and hurts us down the line, unless you get lucky
- Develop our own talent and lose in the meantime (no thanks!)
- Sign affordable, average guys with potential to fill in the gaps between the players we have committed to already and try to win while our emerging talent develops (best of a bunch of bad options imo)
Really good points you are making...
- We really weren't bad this year...injuries killed us(not to mention a perfectly timed HGH article) and boy does Pujols always look gimpy. Is there something in terms of "club culture" that can be changed?...I have to leave that partially up to the medical staff(should be influential here) (and I do have strong reservations about them) What are they doing or not doing in terms of teaching these guys how to keep their systems clean and from breaking down? Meds/Drugs and surgery are the last option...its too late by then...When I read about an Arthritic condition in Carpenter's Elbow with nerve entrapment...YIKES!!!Plus the shoulder(and we expect him back sometime next year?) I might sound flaky but these guys need to evolve beyond chewing tabacco(I know not all of them do this), they are destroying their bodies.
- I agree that paying inflated prices for just over mediocre talent is not the answer...We talk alot about spending on VEB. What are the real numbers we are talking about? Does anyone know where we can get a breakdown on the Cardinals as business to see what kind of money they really have to spend(this can silent my,and others attack on DeWitt)? It seems as though there are assumptions made but I haven't seen someone give us an actual breakdown. Once we know these numbers we can atleast start tinkering with options down to the dollar...and as bright and influential as some of the writers are on this blog...we could influence club decisions....HOW EXCITING IS THAT???!!!!:)
by DesmetMattdNYC on Oct 14, 2007 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Sizemore leadoff double starts the game
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Oct 13, 2007 8:28 PM EDT reply actions
they just said something
as he draws a 4 pitch walk
by Petkovsek on Oct 13, 2007 8:44 PM EDT reply actions
Nice twin killing there.
Sox
Here comes the walkoff
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 14, 2007 12:37 AM EDT reply actions
so is every one upset
no offense boss, but your rant about late games in October makes you sound about 100 years old.
this happens every year. and there's almost nothing that can be done about it. if you start the west coast games at 4pm their time, all the west coast fans will lose their minds & go nuts yelling they cant miss work to see the first few innings. and if you start the games at 10pm est people out here on the east coast yell because they fall asleep during the games.
the only way i can see this being fixed is starting with the LCS's only play one game a day. and have it start at 8pm est, no matter where the game is played. that way every one all across the country should be able to stay awake during the game.
and i saw that game last night. frankly i was bored. didnt fall asleep, but neither team really does any thing for me. you could totally see valverde's blow up coming a mile away. and i think thats a bigger problem than the late starting times. no one outside of denver & phoenix cares about the two teams in the NLCS.
They've only played 11 inning
This is dumb. It makes enjoyable baseball less enjoyable.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 14, 2007 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
some how i'd knew you'd still be up
it may be dumb, but my friend it's always enjoyable to watch the sox lose.
7-6 good guys
pile it on.
you never know how many runs Joe Blow will give up in the bottom of the inning.
sweet moses
it hit off the Volvo sign over the green monster.
13-6 Tribe. woo hoo!
blow out
figured gagne would get the collar. and now it gets to a blow out 13-6. nive poke for nixon. what a killer defeat for the sox, and they still have to suffer to play it out.
by Birds on the Bat on Oct 14, 2007 1:31 AM EDT reply actions
blowoski
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 14, 2007 1:34 AM EDT reply actions
13-6 good guys
I actually stayed up
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