Reds Hire Dusty Baker!

by TheFranchise9 on Oct 13, 2007 11:40 PM EDT

Haha. This made my night! Cincy signs Baker to a 3-year deal to manage the Reds.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3062658

This might be another indication that TLR will stay put, as it takes another potential suiter out of the picture.

I would type more, but I'm going over to the Reds blog to read the reaction over there. Personally, I'd be pretty irate if I were a Reds fan tonight.

Poll

Who would you rather have manageing the Redbirds?

Tony LaRussa

125 votes

Dusty Baker

6 votes

131 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 29 comments | 0 recs |

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Comments

Link to Reds Reporters

http://www.redreporter.com/story/2007/10/13/224941/15#commenttop

They aren't very happy. Don't think they have had one positive post yet in this thread.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Oct 13, 2007 11:34 PM EDT reply actions

interesting Jocketty reference

I know it's been rumored before, but I thought it was Jocketty AND TLR to Cincy....now some of the reds posters are saying Jocketty still coming and joining Dusty. If they bring Walt in in the next week or so, I'd have to wonder if he played a role in hiring Dusty....interesting.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Oct 13, 2007 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions

say

goodbye to Aaron Harang's and Bronson Arroyo's arms.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Oct 13, 2007 11:34 PM EDT reply actions

and Homer Bailey?

haha. ouch.

10-time World Champs!

by TheFranchise9 on Oct 13, 2007 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions

And that's

the truth Ruth.

That's the facts, Jack.

there is no secret weapon...there is only Oquendo.

by bukowski on Oct 13, 2007 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Arroyo

I thought they alrady said bye to his arm

by zolak16 on Oct 14, 2007 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions

no, he was very good

once Mckannin took over. you just have to accept that fact that he is a 100-pitch pitcher and not try to get anything more out of him.

Narron basically just left him in until he failed, earlier in the year.

by SleepyCA on Oct 14, 2007 1:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Cinncy must love losing

Can't imagine wj would have any interest in the reds now either.

They better start stocking up on pitchers with rubber arms.

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Oct 13, 2007 11:46 PM EDT reply actions

Other?

I'm not voting because there's no "other" choice. Please, Tony, take a vacation, get a TV gig... something.

Just get the hell away from St. Louis.

by 26thMan on Oct 14, 2007 12:01 AM EDT reply actions

....lets get negative

Reading "just get the hell away from St Louis" in regard to a manager like TLR is so disrepectful it makes me hope he re-ups for a few more years. At least one anyway, Im not gonna dump on the guy after the last 7 years we've had here because he's earned the respect.

Youth movement or not, I want Carpenter, Speezio JEd and Rolen back in '08...yeah, those old guys that play the game like pros.

by cardschinmusic on Oct 15, 2007 6:31 AM EDT up reply actions

I just came over to revel too

Hooray... I can't imagine Jock would be that excited to go work with him.

Hopefully this means we don't have to put up with his boring voice on the radio or baseball tonight anymore.

by OCCardsFan on Oct 14, 2007 12:02 AM EDT reply actions

Checked over at RedReporter

In shock and heavily negative. here's one gem:

walls closing in....TJ surgeries for all....

i hope i live to regret my knee-jerk feelings of hopelessness and resignation.

by Dubman on Sun Oct 14, 2007 at 12:13:21 AM EDT

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Oct 14, 2007 12:30 AM EDT reply actions

this is sad

they have joey votto, jay bruce, homer bailey all MLB ready...and they'll probably all be shuttling between Louisville and Cincy next year. yamma.

Future Redbirds

by erik on Oct 14, 2007 12:57 AM EDT reply actions

Okay

who voted for Dusty-freaking-Baker? Reveal yourself!

by spants on Oct 14, 2007 2:14 AM EDT reply actions

Probably a Reds fan

wishful thinking that today's headline in Cinncy is just a bad joke.

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Oct 14, 2007 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions

Poll at Red Reporter

They've got a poll up now. It's early, but running neck and neck between "Horrible Move" and "Bad Move."

You may have to vote to see the score. (You don't have to be logged into their site to vote, so vebbers can help them with this one.

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Oct 14, 2007 10:00 AM EDT reply actions

Whatever...

Dusty Baker is just a "dude". in the parlance of our times... I don't think he's any better / worse than the next guy..
I really don't buy the "Ruiner of Young Arms, Destroyer of Prospects Futures, Enabler of Neifi" stuff that gets attributed to his name...
As far as "Ruiner of Young Arms" goes, Wood was/is a ticking time-bomb. The guy had TJ in '98 & subsequent shoulder problems from there on out.. Zambrano seems to be just fine & Prior.. He was supposedly ruined after the '03 playoffs, right? I checked his last start in '04 & he seemed to be all right, don't you think..

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN200409300.shtml

On to "Destroyer of Prospects Futures", which Cubs prospects are we talking about here? Corey Patterson? Matt Murton? Ronny Cedeno? Who else?
Patterson was given plenty of time in the minors before he was handed the CF job in '04. In fact, he was having a pretty decent year (for him) in '03, the year Dusty arrived, when a knee injury put him on the shelf for the rest of the year.. Murton & Cedeno also got plenty of MLB AB's to prove what they could do & they did it...

"Enabler of Neifi".. seems like Leyland, who's thought by most to be a pretty good manager, is also in love with Neifi.. Plus, who else is Baker going to play there? What hidden talent did he supress to make room for Neifi / Macias?

Just wondering.. I just don't like it when opinions get too one-sided..

Boomer.

by glamboomer on Oct 14, 2007 12:24 PM EDT reply actions

here is an interesting analysis of Dusty's

use of the pitching staff written in 2004 (and linked by a Reds blogger yesterday.)

http://bigredc.blogspot.com/2004/02/dusty-and-pen.html

hardly definitive, just adds fuel.

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Oct 14, 2007 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

That's fine analysis..

But I still don't see where Dusty is at fault here. There is an opinion afoot among many that starters are much more valuable than relievers, mostly because they are, you know, better pitchers..

The question still remains:
Were the Prior / Wood injuries Dusty's fault?

So, hypothetically, if you were Dusty Baker, would you send Prior out in the 8th having thrown 95 pitches in a close ballgame or would you bring in Wuertz / Novoa / Ohman /Dempster / Hawkins?

Baker's first year ('03) they won 19 more games than in 2002 (sound familiar Cubs fans?) to get to 88 wins. They won 89 in '04 under Baker, when the franchise hadn't had back-to-back winning seasons in over 30 years..

by glamboomer on Oct 14, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Here's what another Reds poster had to offer:

Harang/Wood

If you'd like a frame of reference for just how bad Baker's defiance of pitch counts is, I offer the following:

Aaron Harang, who you claim that Narron was reckless with, has 15 starts in his career where he threw 120+ pitches.

Kerry Wood had 14 starts of 120+ pitches during the 2003 season.

The least we can ask for is a manager who doesn't screw things up, and we're about to hire the one guy who could deep-six the franchise by leaving our stud pitching prospect out there for a 140 pitch outing just to show us how "old school" he is.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey
by BLee2525 on Sat Oct 13, 2007 at 08:22:57 AM EDT

Watching the Playoffs as Reigning Champs is not a bad thing.

by Birds on the Bat on Oct 14, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Wood's total from 120+ pitch starts in '03..

Here are the totals (in 13, not 14 games)
99 2/3 IP; 51 HA; 42 BB; 132 K's; 0.90 ERA..
Cubs record in those games: 10 - 3
3 CG shut-outs in there...

Would you take him out? Knowing that in a tight game in the late innings that Wood also handles the bat very well for a pitcher?

Boomer.

by glamboomer on Oct 14, 2007 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, let's see

If the tradeoff is winning THIS game and having Wood healthy for MANY games later...then that is pretty obvious to me.

by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 14, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Ugh..

Wood didn't miss a start in '03 & already had a lengthy injury history up to that point..
And in ALL sports, the next game IS the future of the franchise.

Boomer.

by glamboomer on Oct 14, 2007 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't get

...Why hacks like Baker get recycled when there are assistant coaches out there like John Farrell (P.C. for Boston), Jose Oquendo, and Terry Pendleton who obviously know their stuff and could do a fine job. Its kind of like the Chargers hiring Norv Freakin' Turner, the least accomplished multi-job head coach ever.

And yeah, Baker abuses his pitchers. Wood throwing 120+ 14 times in one season is just dumb. Of course he had problems in the past, so why put him in danger again? Prior's problems are a result of declining mechanics, but treating him like a 30 year old workhorse his first two seasons is not smart either. This guy is the future of the pitching staff, you don't fry him for the sake of winning one or two more games in his 1st and 2nd years.

by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 14, 2007 3:42 PM EDT reply actions

Wow

I actually dislike this hiring because i think it could be trouble for our division. Cincy isn't a terrible team and they've only been a few pieces away from winning for a bit. This is the first time they have actually been proactive and hired someone outside the organization to come in and take over as head coach and i think that alone shows a change in the way they are thinking in cincy. i don't buy into all the shitty stuff that gets attributed to Baker, i think he is a pretty good manager.

by lopey986 on Oct 14, 2007 4:26 PM EDT reply actions

Hmmm, disagree ...

watching Dusty up close in Chicago during his tenure here, I was left with an unfavorable impression. (I'm not going to even comment on the thing with the pitchers. That's overblown hyperbole.) He takes his rep as "player's manager" a little too far. That Cub team disintegrated further and further into lousy, brain-dead fundamentals, but weren't held accountable in any way. This led to a further entrenched position against angry fans, media, and beat writers, which Dusty then fostered into an "Us against Them" attitude that just got plain ugly. The team became eminently unlikable (and really bad), like a steadily metastisizing cancer.

Dusty could possibly work with the right mix of players, but the Reds gig does not sound promising in any way. Wouldn't be the first bad decision that team has made in the last ten years.

by Urban Pawnee on Oct 15, 2007 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions

Why

would the Reds being a better team be bad for the division? I am tired of the "Comedy Central" label and the only way to lose it is for all the teams in the division to get better. OTOH, I don't think Dusty is the way for the Reds to get better.

by cardsgirl95 on Oct 15, 2007 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions

I actually think the Reds will be better no matter

the managers....Harang had a monster year, Arroyo a solid year, and Bailey is much closer to being ready to take the ball every 5th day. Bill Bray was terrific in their bullpen, and they have some nice young arms that got some experience....I expect a few of them to be a lot better this year. They have some very big bats with Dunn, Griffey, Phillips, and Gonzalez's should be able to stay with the team this year, after missing many games with an extremely ill infant. They have some nice pieces in place, and they actually have some prospects in their minors. If they add a few more players, they could improve a lot.

They played a lot better after Narron left--I don't see Baker as a very good manager, but I'm interested to see how it all plays out.

by jillsinmo on Oct 15, 2007 10:14 PM EDT reply actions