betting on bradley
if you're feeling uneasy about the transition the cardinals are in the midst of, read yesterday's post at USS Mariner:
Cleveland, Arizona, Colorado, and Boston aren't true "Moneyball" organizations --- they're Moneyball 2.0 clubs, the ones who have successfully integrated both scouting and statistical analysis into a cohesive organization and are leveraging every good piece of information they can find into a competitive advantage. . . . .
This isn't stats vs scouts --- this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going.
the term "every good piece of information" jumped out at me, given the source of the article; USS Mariner itself, you might recall, became a source of valuable information this summer. in its june 27 post, USSM noted a counterproductive pattern in felix hernandez's pitch selection. the team's pitching coaches (allegedly) had already noted the same pattern, but it was the USSM post that got through to hernandez; after reading it, he altered his pitch sequencing habits --- and reaped the benefits. he went 10-3 the rest of the way, shaved nearly half a run off his era, and lowered his opponent ops by about 75 points.
the point being --- blog communities made up of knowledgeable fans are among the sources of information that "moneyball 2.0" organizations have begun to use. including this blog community. i've had enough interactions with jeff luhnow and his charges to know that they read the site daily --- not just the main-page posts but also the comments and the diaries. and luhnow has a history of taking fan input seriously --- back in march 2004, shortly after he joined the cardinal front office as a consultant, luhnow wrote brian gunn soliciting input about how much the cards ought to pay edgar renteria (scroll down to the march 30 post). gunn dug into the numbers and set parameters that turned out to be right on the (literally) money --- between $8m a year (the cards' top offer to edgar) and $10m a year (what renteria got from boston).
check out brian's analysis --- it's simple, logical, and based on freely available sources of information. three and a half years later there's much better information in the public domain, and we have that much more empirical data about how the baseball marketplace values certain types of performance. (see jeff sackmann's post today at the Hardball Times for a more recent example of this type of work.) so here's a little assignment --- pick a free agent you like; rough out an estimate of what he's likely to get offered this winter (with empirical data behind the estimate); and then make your case for why that player will (or might) outperform his contract --- ie, be worth more on the field than he is in the marketplace. the guy i wrote about on tuesday, ryan franklin, is a prime example of what i'm talking about --- the market valued him at a million bucks, barely above replacement level; he delivered performance that was worth about $6 million, give or take.
in my mind, a free agent with a very good chance to outperform his contract is milton bradley. baggage? you betcha. he's fragile both emotionally and physically. between injuries, suspensions, and other aggravating factors, he has averaged just 77 games and 281 at-bats a year since 2005. but he's also a gifted 30-year-old player who gets on base, hits with considerable power, runs the bases well, and plays superior defense. those virtues appear to carry more weight than bradley's faults; he has generally been a member of winning teams. bradley has started for two division winners in the last 4 years (dodgers 04, athletics 06), and his team only missed out on the playoffs this year (san diego) because trevor hoffman blew saves in games 161 and 163. granted, bradley's tantrum on the penultimate sunday of the year didn't help matters; he lost his cool, got hurt, and missed the last 8 games of the season. but the padres still should have been in, and they wouldn't have been in that position without bradley. before he joined the padres, they were averaging just 4.26 runs a game; bradley came aboard on july 7 and produced a .313 / .414 / .590 line, which helped raise the padres' output to 4.86 runs/game the rest of the way. the team obp rose 20 points after he joined them; the team slugging, 45 points.
since 2004 bradley has posted an aggregate .830 ops despite playing in three of the toughest hitters' parks in baseball --- los angeles, oakland, and san diego. one of these years he's gonna stay healthy and out of trouble and have an all-star season while making platoon-player money --- and the team that holds that contract is gonna be in contention.
what's he likely to get offered this winter? let's start with his basic output, and leave the baggage aside for a moment. over the last three years, bradley has averaged 6 win shares above bench (WSAB), which translates to roughly 2 wins above replacement level. per Baseball Prospectus' WARP (wins above replacement), bradley has been worth about 3 marginal wins a year since 2005. both these figures are unadjusted for playing time --- that's what bradley has contributed in half a season, basically. if he could ever stay on the field for 130 games, we can safely assume that he'd be worth 5 or 6 wins --- slightly better than chris duncan, if you want a comparison.
a player like that is worth $10m a year on the open market; bradley clearly isn't going to get offered $10m. so what will he get offered? given the glut of available outfielders this year, i think he'll go cheap; that's just my gut. guys like andruw jones, aaron rowand, torii hunter, and bob abreu are going to attract all the big-money offers, and still-useful geezers like luis gonzalez, kenny lofton, and moises alou will draw lots of interest on one-year pacts; there are also plenty of reliable mid-level players out there mike cameron and shawn green and brad wilkerson. given all those alternatives, teams are likely to shy away from a baggage-y player like bradley. so i think he'll slip through the cracks and go for less than what his "objective" market value is.
objectively, that value is about $6m a year --- that's the average taken from the Hardball Times win shares calculator and Baseball Prospectus' MORP estimator, using his 3-year averages of WSAB and WARP, respectively. realistically, i think the cardinals can get him for $4m a year or less. let's take a look at a few fairly comparable players:
| player | years | avg G | avg AB | overall WSAB |
overall WARP |
overall OPS |
signing |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| dave dellucci | 2004-06 | 122 | 343 | 14 | 7.9 | .856 | 3 yrs / $11m |
| frank catalanotto | 2004-06 | 111 | 368 | 15 | 11.0 | .799 | 3 yrs / $13.5m |
| eric byrnes | 2003-05 | 127 | 447 | 12 | 14.2 | .763 | 1 yr / $2.3m |
| nomar garciaparra | 2003-05 | 103 | 403 | 25 | 12.9 | .844 | 1 yr / $6m |
| bradley | 2005-07 | 77 | 281 | 18 | 12.0 | .855 | ???? |
these are all part-time outfielders (except garciaparra) of a similar age to bradley; the average annual salary is $4m. it's a short list of comps; if i had more time, i'd come up with more. but i think $4m a year is a pretty reasonable guess for this player.
he's worth that easy, even if he only manages to play half a season. if he plays 100 games, you're way ahead on the deal; if you get lucky and he stays out there for 140 games, you've got a gold mine. i see very little downside and loads upon loads of upside; my kind of bet.
so that's my message to the front office --- take a close look at milton bradley. sound off on him if you want (should be a fair number of "he's not worthy of the the birds on the bat!!!" comments), but better yet name somebody else who you think will be a good value buy this off-season --- and explain why.
0 recs |
102 comments
Comments
solid rationale
I think you did a good job with the comps. All are very talented guys who are injury prone. Although I wonder if those comps seem more like max-effort guys. What's Bradley's reputation for giving 100%? Obviously we know about his famous temper - but how hard does he work?
Also, did anyone else see his interview in the locker room shortly after the crazy injury and umpire incident? I was surprised and impressed with how Bradley represented himself. His comments presented a composed, measured and intelligent viewpoint. He represented himself in a mature and fair way. It was not at all what I would have expected.
Anyone have a youtube link to that?
by airhad on Oct 11, 2007 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree Bradley is a valuble option
by JMedwick on Oct 11, 2007 9:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was believed that Bradley
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 11, 2007 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i hadn't heard that
by lboros on Oct 11, 2007 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it doesn't sound as bad as that, HC
"Milton Bradley had his knee surgery, repairing the ACL torn in the strangest manner I've ever seen as well as some associated meniscal problems. Bradley likely won't be ready for spring training, and even then will have another chronic problem to deal with on top of his leg, back, and oblique problems, as well as any attempt to rehabilitate the reputation he carries. Bradley had Tim Kremchek do the surgery since Kremchek repaired his knee back in 2005 when Bradley was dealing with a patellar tendon problem. Bradley was able to return quickly from that, and there's no reason to think that he won't be able to do the same here, once he finds a team that needs his bat."
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6765
by lboros on Oct 11, 2007 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I originally heard it on XM from a SD beat writer
During surgery, doctors also found Bradley had torn his meniscus and fixed it, the team said.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 11, 2007 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it it's six months
by lboros on Oct 11, 2007 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knees don't
by DesmetMattdNYC on Oct 11, 2007 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
imagine this-
2 things:
- ACL rehab takes about 6 months nowadays. Players usually don't feel "right" until 12-18 months. It is easier to return to baseball activities than football or basketball activities. I don't think I have to explain why. I would imagine that the team that signs Bradley would get him at about 75-80% speed and strength for at least the first half of next year. He tore his right ACL, which would limit his batting from the right side more than the left. His defense would also be mildly limited.
- The torn meniscus that was "repaired" was likely just cleaned up. Meniscal repairs are very rare, as the tear has to be clean so it can be sewed back together. If they actually repaired the meniscus, he cannot bear weight on his leg for 6-8 weeks, and this will delay his rehab about a month.
by silent_bob on Oct 11, 2007 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good info bob
by lboros on Oct 11, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Cards took this chance...
As Bob said, and as most of my anecdotal knowledge seems to indicate though, it can be the full year before the an athlete is fully back from an ACL tear.
Good to hear that with baseball activities that this is generally less though, which of course makes sense, since it's less strenuous, and most of my anecdotal info is from basketball players.
by mtalken on Oct 11, 2007 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley in the clubhouse....
MB was definitely provoked into his most recent blow-up (else, why would the umpire involved get a season-ending suspension?)
It might depend on the GM-manager combo... assuming TLR's return (I know, that's a big "if"!), Hal McRae could act as a mentor to Bradley. Like Milton, McRae was an oft-injured outfielder with a burning desire to win that occasionally got him in Dutch. It might be better if the Cards had another African-American player who could become Bradley's "buddy"; oh, for a guy with the attitude of a Willie McGee on the roster!
SansLa Russa, would a "rookie" manager like Jose Oquendo or Terry Pendleton be able to deal with Bradley's temper? Dunno, but it's an additional factor to think about.
Bill DeWitt needs to hire a new GM sooner rather than later; the direction of the 2008 Cardinals will follow from that decision.
by The Ol Goaler on Oct 11, 2007 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eeks
I'm sure the front office will search high and low for a black player (not just any black player, mind you - but the good kind, the kind that acts like Willie McGee) to be Milton Bradley's black "buddy" if they sign him. I mean, we know now that the execs read these blogs.
"Luhnow. Get out there and sign me a black guy. Milton can't play with white people."
by baw on Oct 11, 2007 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at what...
stlfan
by stlfan on Oct 11, 2007 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Springer quotes
Russ
"I talked to them and made sure we were going to make some moves to be competitive, that we weren't going to rebuild," Springer said. "They assured me that that's not the Cardinal way. We're in it to win it. At my age, I sure didn't want to be part of a rebuilding process."
His Agent
"Mr. DeWitt said we're going to sign the players we need to sign, go after the players we need to go after, trade if trades will help. I wanted to hear that."
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 11, 2007 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Larry,
(also, in a somewhat serious voice: I agree that he'd be a good signing. Switch hitter, decent glove, can be had below market value. And he's one of the funniest crowd hecklers I have ever seen.)
by Alxfritz on Oct 11, 2007 10:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
John Rocker for setup man!
by silent_bob on Oct 11, 2007 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carl Everett: Still availible
by Valatan on Oct 11, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's out half the season at least
by fourstick on Oct 11, 2007 10:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
are you sure he's out that long?
by lboros on Oct 11, 2007 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and since you mentioned edmonds
he's a much better bet than edmonds at this stage of their careers.
by lboros on Oct 11, 2007 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball execs reading VEB
On another note, I find it interesting that the AZ and CO rosters are littered with names that the average person had never heard of just a couple years. Of course these guys didn't just appear out of nowhere and we all know the dangers to modeling a long-term strategy after this year's hot team (you certainly wouldn't mimic the 06 Cardinals), I still feel there is a lesson in player development to be learned from dissecting these two rosters.
Personally, I wouldn't mind saving money spent on average free agents and biting the bullet for a couple years to revamp our system more in the fashion of these two contenders. A $110M dollar budget permits us to always have 2-3 carefully selected prime investments that when surrounded by AZ/CO like young farm products can make for a killer good team on a consistent basis.
by Hinkster on Oct 11, 2007 10:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If the people in the FO are reading this
NO MORE MIGUEL CAIRO!
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 11, 2007 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I second that!
by airhad on Oct 11, 2007 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley
a) We need depth in CF. Jimmy Ballgame is undoubtedly going to take a few trips to the DL next season. Rick Ankiel is still Rick Ankiel ... anything can happen. Bradley is a plus defender.
b) We need help at the top of the lineup w/ the expected departure of Eckstein. Miles is not an everyday leadoff hitter and we just don't have a large enough sample size with Ryan to know what he will give us next year. Bradley would look great in the 1 or 2 holes.
c) If we got Milton, I would look at us having three players to fill two positions (CF and RF): Jimmy, Bradley, Ankiel. You stand a good chance of getting 300 games out of these three. Thus, if you are only expecting 100 games out of each player, it lowers expectations and the lineup is still strong regardless of which 2 play any given day.
d) Bradley is a true switch hitter (not big difference in production from either side of the plate). If TLR comes back, solves his obsession with the righty -- lefty match up.
e) We have a veteran presence in the Cards clubhouse that can help to moderate Milton. I'll call it the New England Patriots effects (see Randy Moss circa 2007).
f) Acquiring Bradley makes Duncan expendable in trade for a starter. Platoon Schu and whoever in left.
by jjray on Oct 11, 2007 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
F)
by Glowsticks on Oct 11, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sitting one of the three
by jjray on Oct 11, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe as a precursor to this analysis
by sdrone on Oct 11, 2007 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
none
by StLHugo on Oct 11, 2007 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there really a bad one year deal...
by BigJawnMize on Oct 11, 2007 10:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, Larry...
But I wanted to check and see how close Renteria came to his projections. His Win Share guesstimates from March of 2004 were 22-19-20-21 over the next four years. His actual Win Share totals were 16-14-19-18. So he's done slightly worse than I expected -- about one win per season (3 WS are equal to one win), but we might chalk up some of that to the difficulty of playing in an unwelcome environment in Boston, as well as learning a new (and tougher) league. In the NL he's been about what we expected. Who knows? We might need to size him up once again, if the rumors about him coming to St. Louis for '08 turn out to be true...
by briangunn on Oct 11, 2007 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
brian, those win-share figures
whaddya think about mr bradley --- would you take a flyer on him, or do you figure the (figurative) price tag of having this guy in your clubhouse is too high? or maybe you thing the ACL thing lowers his upside . . . . ?
by lboros on Oct 11, 2007 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would take a flyer on Bradley, yes
- He's produced everywhere he's been
- He's a high-risk/high-reward player -- he could be a steal, and he could be a flameout
- However, given that the Cardinals are running from behind without much talent from within, the team needs to take risks
- A reasonable amount of risk is warranted with Bradley provided you accept upfront that (a) Bradley will be injured in the near term and probably down the line, (b) Bradley will get into some embarrassing flap that might affect his play (or the play of his teammates), and (c) those first two warnings can be mitigating depending on the manager of the team. If it's La Russa, forget it -- he and La Russa are like powder keg meets match. But if it's someone who can embrace Bradley while being firm with him (not sure who that is; is Phil Jackson available?), then sure, sign him up...
by briangunn on Oct 11, 2007 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CARLOS QUENTIN
If this organization is hell bent on dealing Reyes, then wouldn't a deal with Reyes & Quentin as the centerpiece make a ton of sense?
We would control Quentin for I believe the next 5 seasons. I also think once he gets on track it would not be unreasonable to expect an OPS of .830 to .860 out of him on a regular basis.
by MrPlow on Oct 11, 2007 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
do we know why...
by airhad on Oct 11, 2007 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quentin
So I don't know if they gave up on Quentin or whether he just became a victim of circumstance as sometimes happens.
by MrPlow on Oct 11, 2007 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're prob right...
by airhad on Oct 11, 2007 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes!!!!!!!!!!
I;m wondering if a deal for Reyes alone would get it done. Or Reyes and a solid MR prospect. This would give an OF of:
Vs RHP:
Duncan
Edmonds/Ankiel
Ankiel/Q
Vs LHP
Duncan/Q
Ankiel
Ankiel/Q
Quentin also has terrific OB skills with pop, making him potentially the ideal #3 hitter in front of Albert. He's young (25), and the Cards will control his rights for a long time yet.
THIS IS THE GUY TO GET!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by siddfynch on Oct 11, 2007 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the scoop on Quentin
"I think his shoulder was a continual problem for him the entire season, although the DBacks repeatedly denied that it was still hurt him. When he was back with us in August I talked to him about it and he straight up told me it was killing him, and it almost seemed like the DBacks didn't believe that he was still hurts and that they thought he was using it as an excuse for his struggles. I think it legitimately tanked his season though.
Byrnes, CY, Upton are all pretty much locked in unless there's the odd chance the give Upton a little Triple-A time....very doubtful though. They'll probably try to deal Q for starting pitching, and if Scott Hairston is any precedent they'll ask for the world, sit on him for too long and end up getting very little in return from a patient team."
by airhad on Oct 11, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If i were in charge...
by airhad on Oct 11, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Quentin has shoulder problems
Quentin, I feel, is going to suffer from Barden's fate: Good prospect who is pushed out by better ones.
I'd love to snatch up Quentin too, but I don't think we should trade pitching for an injured OF. We've got 4 of those already.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 11, 2007 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point
I'd agree with you re: Reyes. If there's a new manager and pitching coach I'd hope we stick with the guy and give him a new shot.
I do wonder what it would take to get a guy like Quentin. How much value does McCormick have? Or maybe M Boggs?
by airhad on Oct 11, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quentin's Shoulder
Will it be completely healed up by next spring?
by MrPlow on Oct 11, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, timely...
"Right fielder Carlos Quentin had surgery on his left shoulder on Tuesday.
One of the club's top prospects a year ago, Quentin was penciled in as the Opening Day starter in 2007. He suffered a slight tear in the labrum in his left shoulder midway through Spring Training, forcing him to start the year on the disabled list. He never seemed to be able to recover his rhythm at the plate and struggled to a .214 mark.
The estimated recovery time for Quentin is six months."
Guess this means there's little chance he'll get dealt until after he comes back and proves to be healthy and effective. Damn.
by airhad on Oct 11, 2007 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, sweet
I can't compete with that, but I can offer this parallel overview:
- Q hurt the shoulder in spring, and was a progressively worse hitter in April, May, and June. He was pretty much shut down in late June (or so).
- He then came back in July, and hit the tar out of the ball at AAA - clearly, his shoulder was feeling better. Or, at least good enough to repeat his numbers there from 2006. he got called back up to AZ, but hurt his hamstring.
- In August, he made another comeback in AAA, and again hit well. He was recalled for Sept, and was respectable in a handful of ABs.
I really think we should go after this guy.
by siddfynch on Oct 11, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your hypothesis on Bradley
by ridgesee on Oct 11, 2007 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
skip schumaker played over his head this year
the jury's out on ankiel. duncan's a better hitter, but once you adjust for fielding bradley's a better player. edmonds' ops last year was .728; bradley hasn't posted an ops that low in 6 years. you're right, maybe jed has one last .850ish year in his bat, but his odds of doing that are much lower than bradley's --- and edmonds' downside is much worse.
by lboros on Oct 11, 2007 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Iboros, you present good stats
If you would go back to 1949 ( I know this is a long way back and there are a lot of others more recent that could be used to illustrate but this one has always been burned in my memory) look at the team rosters and stats of the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees and you will say how in the hell could the Yankees have possibly beaten that Red Sox team, yet they did by one game on the last of the season. They did by character. I still like your stats though.
by ridgesee on Oct 11, 2007 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean the Red Sox team
(just kidding)
Seriously though, looking at the stats of the two teams on baseball-reference.com and baseball-prospectus.com, it is obvious that the Red Sox had a better team, or at least "played better that year". The question is, could anyone have developed a set of mathematical tools to predict the outcome based on the 1946/7/8 stats more often that a person who watched every game of the 1946/7/8 seasons? If the Yankees had a tool like that, could they have found a better SS than Rizzuto, or maybe a pitcher better than Reynolds to be their #2? What can we learn from the player performances to help us figure out what Ludwick and Pujols and Edmonds and Bradley will do next year?
by SleepyCA on Oct 12, 2007 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Still, the question then becomes, "If the Red Sox had a tool that could accurately predict player performance, could they have found a better hitting 1B than Goodman, or maybe a pitcher better than Kramer to start for 18 games?"
by SleepyCA on Oct 12, 2007 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sleepy Ca, I am glad you took the time
by ridgesee on Oct 12, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, ridgesee
by gbrusca on Oct 12, 2007 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley
by mikedallas23 on Oct 11, 2007 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A good portion of Bradley's value
by azruavatar on Oct 11, 2007 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IF THEY REALLY LISTEN TO US
JUST RECEIVED MY INVOICE FOR 2008. MY SEASON TICKETS PRICE ROSE 16%.
by whatapartier on Oct 11, 2007 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
TOLAXOR...
by _pistol_ on Oct 11, 2007 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Stairs and the sacking of Walk Jocketty
If you want to talk value for money, he had 7 WSAB (14 total) for $850K last year. Yes, he's going to be 40 in February, but if you give him 400 PAs against RHP he's likely to give you value for minimal cost. He's not a great fielder, but again who cares when it's a LF that you are talking about?
If the Cards are going to use Duncan as a trade chip (though I don't recommend it), a Stairs/Ludwick platoon in LF would likely be a $1 to $1.5 MM league average position.
2. I read the USS Mariner article yesterday and your thoughts are the same as mine. Four years ago there was a series of newspaper articles on what Cleveland was doing to rebuild their farm infrastructure.
That series is located here: http://www.cleveland.com/gameplan/
It's pretty clear that DeWitt has an agenda in mind, and I would guess he is trying to emulate the Cleveland model. DeWitt wanted the same type of reorganization that happened/is happening in Cleveland. That's why he hired a dotcom guy, Lunhow, and later put him in charge of the farm system. That's why they are rebuilding the Latin presence.
And that's why Jocketty is the ex-GM, because he was standing in the way of the reformation of the organization.
Read the articles, and you will have a lot better understanding of the DeWitt roadmap.
Dave
by Sydney dave on Oct 11, 2007 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not just Cleveland
by MikeG on Oct 11, 2007 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Add another GM name:
Schuerholz expected to step down
by StLHugo on Oct 11, 2007 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap
by sdrone on Oct 11, 2007 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also says
by rockin redbird on Oct 11, 2007 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley
That also gives the Cards some flexibility to deal Duncan, who is probably the most valuable trading chip (besides Pujols of course, who isn't going anywhere obviously).
by redbirdnation8206 on Oct 11, 2007 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Has this name been thrown out there?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/alexei_ramirez/index.html
He had a .335 BA and slugged .574 to go with 20 HR this season with Pinar Del Rio of the Cuban league. His agent says he can play SS or the outfield.
The general thought is that the level of separation from a league like Cuba's to the majors is quite broad, it is not unheard of for Cuban defectors to have successful MLB careers.
I propose the Cards take a flier on this guy. If he's a not major league ready SS, I know of a certain farm system that could use another prospect or two.
If it ends up that he doesn't fit the bill of a SS, he has the skills to play the outfield or possibly 2nd base. The ability to play multiple positions seems is a skill to be desired by many NL managers, notedly TLR. Transition him in as a super-sub and let him get some ABs.
Because he's been playing in Cuba, there is not much info readily available on him. (At least that I could find) He did pretty well in the World Baseball Classic. I wouldn't know where to begin as far as determining what he might be had for. I'd be interested to see the scouting report on this guy. Seems to be the low-risk/high-reward type deal LB likes.
by SethWestern on Oct 11, 2007 12:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to disagree with myself about something
by SethWestern on Oct 11, 2007 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I posted a diary about him the other day
I've looked around to try to find some more stuff about this guy. In addition to being on the 2nd place WBC team last year he was on the Olympic gold medal team in 2004.
It might be too much to hope that he's genuinely MLB-ready. Talent wise the Cuban league equates to low-A ball here in the states, who's to say what numbers he'd put up against MLB pitching.
I still think he'd be a wise pick-up. If he doesn't play well in spring training he can start the year in Memphis, he's young enough to have a little time on his side.
by stl tyler on Oct 11, 2007 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate wading into the trade territory
I haven't seen him in person so maybe his stuff has deteriorated but at 28, this is the type of player that I'd like to see the Cardinals try and stash at AAA. Baseball Prospectus wrote about him here (I think it's a free article) and I can't help but look at those minor league numbers and wonder if he couldn't put something together still.
by azruavatar on Oct 11, 2007 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
He doesn't have any spectacular pitch (apparently), but must know how to pitch. You'd have to think that getting away from teh AL alone would help a guy like that; he's also been relatively durable, and we would control his rights for awhile.
Plus, Billy Beane owes us one ;)
by siddfynch on Oct 11, 2007 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's his Pitch f/x data as well
by azruavatar on Oct 11, 2007 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
omg
Since there's such little sample sizes when you do batter/pitcher match-ups I was gonna tinker around with grouping pitchers of similar stuff (i.e. pitch type, break, velocity etc). Has anybody done that before? Are there more sites with Pitch/FX data out there like that??
by rocKStark5 on Oct 11, 2007 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nahh, I think you are right
He'd look good on the other end of the phone line in Memphis, ready to step into the right spot and get his wings under him.
by siddfynch on Oct 11, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley, et al
"The Padres appear to have survived the Milton Bradley crisis. I grew to like and admire Bradley last year when I covered the A's postseason. He's got a major problem with his temper, but give him a stable situation where nobody's on his case, and you couldn't ask for a friendlier, more valuable guy. That certainly wasn't the case in San Diego last week. Over the course of two innings, Bradley took out his own center fielder, Mike Cameron (accidentally stepping on his hand as the two tried to avoid an outfield collision), then made such a fuss over umpire Mike Winters, he got taken down by manager Bud Black and tore his ACL. (There was nothing wrong with Black's maneuver, by the way. This was no WWE-style takedown. He simply pushed Bradley to the ground, without a trace of malice or aggression, and Bradley's knee happened to be twisted in the wrong direction.)
It was refreshing to see MLB come down hard on Winters, who clearly baited Bradley with some vicious words and got suspended for the rest of the regular season. (It appears that Winters did not deny calling Bradley a "---ing piece of ---.") It should have been announced that Winters would also be banished for the playoffs -- he would have been in line to work an LCS -- but officials privately made it clear he won't be seen again until spring."
He'll be more than $4 million/year, but likely to be cheap at the price...go get him El Birdos.
by deweydell on Oct 11, 2007 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't see the desire for Bradley
I'm sorry, but I just don't see the need to bulk up our outfield with players like him. If we're going to add an outfielder, make sure it's a guy way over replacement level.
by aet15 on Oct 11, 2007 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
my assignment ;)
Since July 7th (the MB date above) Ryan Ludwick's line was:
.286/.380/.492 .872 OPS (213 PA)
I think he's going to put up numbers next year that are very similar to this, probably better, and he is also capable of playing excellent defense. He's also less likely to get hurt than Bradley is, imho (if we can break him of the bad habit of getting hit by pitches). And he's going to be working for us for less than $1M next year.
Unless we can trade one of them for a shortstop or pitcher in the off-season, we'll be fine going into 2008 with a starting outfield of {Ludwick, Ankiel, Duncan, Edmonds}, with Ankiel and Ludwick relieving Jimmy in CF every third day or so. In fact, that OF would probably come very close to being the best in the league, given even a modest resurgence by Edmonds. At the trade deadline, we would be able to package the player who performs second- or third-best for prospects and bring up Rasmus or Mather. Lather, rinse, repeat.
by SleepyCA on Oct 11, 2007 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick
Was it him developing and getting into a groove against major league pitching or was it a factor of TLR knowing when and how to spot him playing time?
by airhad on Oct 11, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley...WHAT?
by deweydell on Oct 11, 2007 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is Brian Barden incapable of playing SS?
AVG OBP SLG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS
Brian Barden .265 .310 .430 132 486 67 129 32 3 14 62 28 109 4 3
Now, I don't know if that is projected to AAA or what but comparing it to Brendan Ryan:
AVG OBP SLG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS
Brian Barden .265 .310 .430 132 486 67 129 32 3 14 62 28 109 4 3
Brendan Ryan .265 .315 .351 117 396 61 105 18 2 4 22 27 44 13 3
...I'll take Barden's offense.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 11, 2007 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
2006
.298/.361/.478/.839 16HR is what he did in 2006 at AAA
with only 25 less ABs in 2007 he had .263/.342/.342/.684 4HR
2007 was the first season he had less then a .399 slugging and he seemed to average over .460 before this season as well.
In the majors he had a .171/.216/.200 0HR line in 35 ABs. He has potential and to me is the top 3B prospect we have now. I don't know why I suggested Craig in Memphis when Barden will probably start there next season. Great waiver wire pick up if you ask me.
by StLHugo on Oct 11, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barden in the Commercial Appeal
Barden has relished the chance to play shortstop on a more consistent basis.
Whether he is called up today or not, he feels he's now in a position in the Cardinals organization to capitalize on what has been a big season for him.
"It's been great to play shortstop as much as I have. I really see myself more as a middle infielder," he said. "Hopefully I'll get some time at second base next year. Time will tell."
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2007/sep/03/s3birds/
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 11, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn't his defensive aptitude
by sdrone on Oct 11, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Barden does not hit well enough to say his offense outweighs his defense. Not even close, he would have to hit 25+ HR for anyone to say that.
by ICbirdfan on Oct 11, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barden has a great arm and from what I hear
Offensively, David Eckstein could only dream of hitting 14 HRs.
Barden's main trait from everything everyone has said in the organization is that his defense is what is MLB quality right now.
I don't know what effect it will have on him to change positions and move to SS full time. He'll probably have a learning curve to deal with.
But if he even comes close to those ZiPs projections (if they are MLB and not AAA) then there is very little reason he shouldn't get a look at SS.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 11, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barden
I saw him play D but did not get a chance to see any plays in the hole or up the middle or charging a slow grounder at SS.
I just think what little offense he has may be hurt drastically by playing SS everyday at the MLB level.
Just my opinion, but we need a lot better.
by ICbirdfan on Oct 11, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Show
Maybe it was just Barden having a career year but he had alot of pop in his bat. His personality is very Scott Rolen-ish "Just put on a jersey and play ball".
Good pickup by the Cards.
by Hardcore Legend on Oct 11, 2007 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Middle Infield
ECK
Kennedy
Miles
Barden
Ryan
Are you kidding me? None of them scare you offensively.
Now I really do not dislike any of them but wow that is not a good cast of middle infielders. If we could take a skill from each person we could probably have a decent player. We need much more than this cast of characters.
by ICbirdfan on Oct 11, 2007 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Weakness
- Pitching
- Middle Infield
I respect the Milton Bradley idea but the Cardinals have plenty of OF talent.
The Cardinals need an overhual in the middle infield if you are looking at position problems. I would like to see options at middle infield.
by ICbirdfan on Oct 11, 2007 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well who is a good idea for getting in the MI?
by saladdays on Oct 11, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds
People say there is a SS in our system who is about two years away. Now I don't know anything about him but some seem pretty happy.
This is where drafting comes into play. We need to obviously get some MI help.
I don't have a solution right now. I am just saying out MI is pretty weak in my mind and if you ask people around baseball they probably feel the same way.
I am just saying that Ryan, and Barden are not the future. Now I am not against having Barden, Ryan, Miles in the MI and somehow leting Eck and Kennedy go. I just think we obviously are going to need better MI players. It is obvious with a weak pitching staff and not a solid offense we need the best defense on the field. But in the rebuilding mode I do not object to saving $6-$7 million letting Eck go if it helps improve our future. I see Ryan/Barden/Miles(he is cheap) as place holders and nothing else. I personally am not excited about them.
FYI I am not really in favor of the Edgar idea.
Just my opinion. I would love for someone to give me some good ideas.
thanks
by ICbirdfan on Oct 11, 2007 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I think we're mainly looking at SS
by saladdays on Oct 11, 2007 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like the Bradley idea......
He's the A. J. Burnett of outfielders.....
by jillsinmo on Oct 11, 2007 7:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Second thoughts on Bradley
But, you got me thinking, lboros. He is enough of an upgrade that he could be our protection for Pujols. He has enough pop in his bat that they would have to pitch to Albert - certainly more than this year or last. And, as a switch hitter they couldn't play the TLR lefty-righty thing on us. If we could get him cheap enough, as you point out, it could be a big pay off. Who knows, with Albert in front of him and Duncan behind him, he might even put up better numbers than he ever has before.
I'd like to think the Cards clubhouse would present an environment that wouldn't set him off - but that's obviously an unsettled issue at this point until GM/Manager/etc. all get settled.
Great research and an idea that has more merit than I originally thought.
by wildman on Oct 11, 2007 9:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ironically
I wouldn't mind getting him and a solid Billy Backup player to go along with Flashy McFragile. Together they may make a decent slot in the order.
Milton McFragile: 250 PA - 50 RC
Ryan Ludwick: 350 PA - 50 RC
= 100 RC.
That's a 30 RC upgrade over league average JuanE.
by rocKStark5 on Oct 12, 2007 10:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs



















