Trade Possibility

by Calhoun on Jan 23, 2007 8:48 AM EST Comment 40 comments

There is an interesting report on

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

saying the D-rays might be willing to trade Delmon Young and what I think is we have a very full bullpen we have Juane I think we should sign Weaver and trade Reyes with perhaps Looper or Juan or others for Delmon Young he could be a very good player in the future I know he had that incident where he threw the bat but im not very concerned with it I would love to see him in our farm system I know its a longshot we could ever get him but i think the Cardinals should atleast give them a good offer what do you guys think?

Poll

Should the Cardinals try to trade for Delmon Young

Yes

54 votes

No

48 votes

Dont really care

16 votes

118 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 40 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

But not for too much

I think if we sent Juan and 2 of our pullpen guys that would be fine. But no more. Reyes needs to stay. I would like to see Weaver signed, Wainy back in the pen, and trade Juan, Blooper, and another for Young. That would also mean we would probably go ahead and sign Preston Wilson as well.

Play hard, play to win, but make it fun!

by Edmonds is baseball on Jan 23, 2007 9:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

the price

i'd like to have him. who wouldnt? the rays wont give him up for reyes and junk. they will (and should) ask for the moon. thats a price i dont think the cards should pay.

by dmb60614 on Jan 23, 2007 9:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Sure

I vote yes, but it would cost a lot more than Encarnacion and 2 bullpen arms for the best player in the minors, IMO

by CardinalsfanIraq on Jan 23, 2007 9:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Not likely

The Devil Rays don't want Juan or Looper. They want young starting pitchers and perhaps a young, cheap first baseman. It would likely take Duncan or Reyes and another minor leaguer to get him.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Jan 23, 2007 9:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why not move Duncan?

There's no guarantee that he's as good next year as he was this year. And there's a decent reason to expect perhaps a bit of a sophomore slump. If they jump on Duncan and Looper, I think that's a really favorable trade for St. Louis.

by Valatan on Jan 23, 2007 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly...

That's really favorable for STL. I can't figure out a reason why they (Tampa) would trade an outfielder that is projected to have a much, much higher celing for Chris Duncan, a converted first baseman that's far inferior defensively. Purely for makeup reasons?

Also, I can't figure out why Braden Looper would entice them to trade Young either. If they wanted a $4MM groundball reliever why didn't they sign Antonio Alfonseca. Dan Kolb is still out there, too.

I can't see any sense behind Duncan+Looper for Young from Tampa Bay's perspective. My guess is itDun would take Wainwright/Reyes+upper-level pitching prospect+Duncan. Maybe not even that.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 23, 2007 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed,

but as an aside, the idea would be to trade Duncan as a first baseman, not as an outfielder.

by Valatan on Jan 23, 2007 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

trade pieces

when trading for someone like delmon (or dontrelle or whoever), think of the young players on the cardinals who you would be least willing to part with (or just plain consider untouchable). those are the players that the d-rays and other teams are going to be interested in.

by dmb60614 on Jan 23, 2007 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No

by cardsrul on Jan 23, 2007 9:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

That was hard to read.

Grammer police suck, but that is the longest.run-on.sentence.ever.

I agree the asking price would be too high. I'd rather try to pry a lessor rated impact bat out of them. I don't think they realize what they have in Gomes. He tore it up the start of last year, then got injured. He tried to play hurt for most of the rest of year before hanging it up. It really bogged his stats down, but the year before: .282/.372/.534. They have quite the log-jam of outfielders. I think it would take much less to get Gomes than say, Baldelli, Young or Crawford.

by RedbirdRay on Jan 23, 2007 10:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

wait a sec.

I understand them wanted to move Upton. It seams they have given up on him. He might be worth a second look. The Cards are a little short on infield prospects. Anybody interested in Upton?

The Young thing has me thinking. (I know that is a bad thing.) Why? This winter they have entertained offers for Baldelli, and Crawford. Now Young. Is this just a fishing expidition or do they truely intend to move some one?

In general I would really like to bring in a young talented outfielder. We have more pitching talent in the minors than position players. If we traded Reyes he can be replaced internally by say Hawksworth or Garica in a year or two.

So I would like to see Weaver get signed. Then the question is: What talented young outfielder can we get for Reyes? We may have to pay more than Reyes depending on whom we are looking to get. We can add Duncan, and a bullpen arm.

by nybirdfan on Jan 23, 2007 11:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Log jam

They simply have too many, even after moving Gathright.

Gomes usually DH's, but is an outfielder.

Crawford and Baldelli

And, Elijah Dukes and Delmon Young are major league ready.

One too many in addition to a real need for some starting pitchers.

by RedbirdRay on Jan 23, 2007 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The DRays

are notorious for asking astronomical prices for their players. They're very similar to the Angels in that regard. Every offseason brings a ton of trade rumours regarding the team's young, bright prospects, then nothing ever happens. It doesn't seem to matter what the actual needs are, the Rays (and Angels) ask for the moon, no one wants to pay it, and they end up just standing pat.

That aside, Young might be worth a look. I would have significant doubt about the guy, considering his behavior incidents, but there's not question about his physical gifts. I do think the cost would end up being way too high for the Cardinals, though. I don't think there is any way I would give up Reyes or Wainwright. Young pitching is the single most valuable commodity in the game today, and I think the Cards do well to hold on to what they have. In this case, unlike the Rays/Angels situation I referenced earlier, what the Cards have is what they need. (In the rotation, that is. In the pen, they do have some depth I think they could move.)

by the red baron on Jan 23, 2007 3:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Forgot

to write this above. I would still rather have Carl Crawford, if there was any way the DRays would give him up. He's a little older, and more expensive, but I think he is a true game changing talent, even more so than what Young might be. Crawford is a guy I would consider giving up almost anything for. Maybe even Reyes. Maybe.

by the red baron on Jan 23, 2007 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Red

Do you think Reyes, Duncan, and a bullpen arm get you Crawford? If not what do u think it will take?

by nybirdfan on Jan 23, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what it would take...

"when trading for someone like delmon (or dontrelle or whoever), think of the young players on the cardinals who you would be least willing to part with (or just plain consider untouchable). those are the players that the d-rays and other teams are going to be interested in."

--dmb60614

can't say it much better than that. i think that they would start by asking for Reyes and Wainwright. Maybe, maybe come down to Wainwright, Rasmus, and another B+pitching prospect.

That's a really good way to say it, anyone we don't want to think about getting rid of, that's who they want.

dmb, are you from chicago? i guess its not that rare, but its always cool to know of another cards fan up here.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 23, 2007 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

lincoln park

clark/fullerton area.

i see quite a few cardinals hats up here.

by dmb60614 on Jan 23, 2007 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They can have Reyes

but I am keeping Wainman. Thanks for your opinion ilillillli, but I was actually asking The Red Baron.

by nybirdfan on Jan 23, 2007 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what does that mean?

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 23, 2007 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was just trying to offer my opinion

i though that's what this forum was for.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 23, 2007 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I know

and I thnaked you for it. No offense taken and non ment.

by nybirdfan on Jan 23, 2007 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh

I would like to hear what the red baron thinks.

by nybirdfan on Jan 23, 2007 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry for the misunderstanding...

i'm gettin' all hypersensitive. my bad.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Jan 23, 2007 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wish, but I doubt it

I believe Tampa will ask for too much and I don't think we have the guns to get it done.

New blog
http://whiteyball.wordpress.com/

by whiteyball on Jan 23, 2007 10:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Don't trade Reyes

Period! Reyes and Juan wouldn't do it anyway, nor would Reyes and Looper. Reyes and Duncan would be too much. It's not worth it for Crawford, or Baldelli, or Alex Rios, or Delmon Young.

by chuckb on Jan 23, 2007 11:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

hah!

I would trade our entire farm system for the next decade for those players (maybe excluding Delmon, because he hasn't done anything)

Why wouldn't you trade them????

BLaw.

by Dttl89 on Jan 24, 2007 1:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Houston

are you saying that if Tampa called and offered Crawford, Baldelli, or Young and all they wanted in return was Reyes and Duncan you would decline the trade?

I would take Crawford and call it a steal.

by nybirdfan on Jan 24, 2007 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The biggest plus

about Crawford is his contract. It's not bad. Crawford, however, is vastly overrated.

He's been below average defensively the last two years. His career line is .292/.326/.434. People are just too caught up in his speed.

PECOTA seems to think he's peaked and has him on the decline for the remainder of his career.

We have a pitching shortage. There's no way I would trade a pitcher with Reyes's upside and projections who's under team control for a long time (and Duncan!?) for a below average defensive outfielder with an OPS that might break .800 on his best years. Yuck.

by RedbirdRay on Jan 24, 2007 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this might be home town fluff

But timely all the same.

http://tampabay.devilrays.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070122&content_id=1784049&am p;vkey=news_tb&fext=.jsp&c_id=tb

by nybirdfan on Jan 24, 2007 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

First of all

TB would want more. Second, yes, I would decline. If Duncan plays as he's projected, Crawford isn't much better. He's better but not by much. For Duncan and Looper, OK. Not Reyes. And they wouldn't do the deal w/o Reyes or Wainwright. It's not worth it. The most valuable commodity in baseball is good, young pitching. The difference is in what you would be left with if you do the deal. Again, Crawford's not that much of an upgrade over Duncan. But going w/ Narveson, Franklin, or Looper for 4 years is a HUGE downgrade from Reyes. If we trade Reyes and Duncan for Crawford, we're worse off.

You might be able to justify it for Young b/c we would have 6 years of Young. But I still wouldn't trade 4 years of Duncan and 4 years of Reyes for 6 years of Young. At least that is worth considering, however. I still am not sure that you could turn around and trade Young for good, young pitching and, if you couldn't, you still end up w/ some replacement level pitcher instead of Reyes. It's not worth it.

by chuckb on Jan 24, 2007 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah right..

Delmon Young for Encarnacion and two bullpenners?

You've got to be kidding. Young has a higher ceiling than all of the Cardinals minor leaguers combined.

It would take Rasmus + Wainwright + Reyes + Duncan + Ottavino + Jay to get Delmon.

by KeepOnRolen on Jan 24, 2007 12:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Crawford..

is what? 24 years old? He's one of the most exciting young players in the game.

Spectacular athlete and could be a .300 - 25 hrs - 60 steals (he's almost there) guy.

It would take a LOT to get him.

by KeepOnRolen on Jan 24, 2007 12:30 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

The best Devil Ray..

If the Cardinals were to trade for any of the Devil Rays, I think it should be flamethrower Jeremy Hellickson or SS Reid Brignac.

Brignac is 20 years old and hit .326 with 21 HRs in 400 ABs in High-A, and hit .300 in AA last year at the age of 20.

Behind Longoria, Young he's TB's best prospect.

by KeepOnRolen on Jan 24, 2007 12:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

throw it out there

guys if we are tading reyes and duncan away, why not make a push for carl crawford?

by Tegan on Jan 24, 2007 8:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Upton

I'm thinking the only person that won't cost the farm is Upton. An interesting trade (from my perspective) would be:

Upton and Jackson (and possibly Guzman) for:

Reyes, excess reliever, and pick a 7-15 prospect in the system

Probably not enough from the DRays perspective but I wouldn't trade Reyes for less.

This would be very high risk for us, and wouldn't make sense unless we had Weaver signed.

by Lawless on Jan 24, 2007 10:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd trade reyes for ONE of those guys

(excluding upton)

Those are future all stars, and we've got a 25 year old 4-5 guy on our hands...
HELLOOOOO

and just for hte record

Crawford is the $hit

BLaw.

by Dttl89 on Jan 24, 2007 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

tough to argue

with such a convincing statement. Crawford last year was 2 wins better than Duncan. He's projected to be about 2 wins better than Duncan each of the next 3 years. Anthony Reyes will be worth almost twice that -- near 4 wins a year for the next 4 years. Crawford is good, but he's not that much better than Duncan. Just b/c he does well on your 5 x 5 fantasy league team doesn't make him a superstar in real life.

by chuckb on Jan 24, 2007 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Craw not much better than Dunk?

I think not, Dunk may be a slightly better power hitter, but he cant match anything close to Crawford's speed, defense, and upside.

And Im sorry to be the one to say this, but what has Reyes done? ONE FRIGGIN GOOD WS START! The White Sox game was one of his first few starts and pitchers historically pitch very well in their first few starts in the majors because their just isnt enough game film on the guy. He had a 5.06 ERA in the regular season this year. Im not saying hes going to be horrible, but lets not confuse proven talent and potential and potential with possible potential and flashes of talent.

Reyes is nothing but projections at this point, Crawford has hit 18 homers, Crawford has hit .300, Crawford does great play defense, Crawford has been either 1 or 2 in the league in 3B in the past 3 years, the guy is already good and still can be better (OBP needs some work). And Duncan, you have a better shot at winning the lottery than guessing what hes going to do this season.

by gbaby on Jan 25, 2007 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no thankyou on young

Not basing this on anything but media reports young seems like a newer version of Terrel Owens he has been told for so long how great he is, That he thinks he is better then he really is.So no matter what he is paid he will never be happy
(if that makes any sense) I think that character needs to have some basis on this decision im not just burnin the guy on the one incident the drays have had a lot of trouble out of the guy.
I dont want to spend the next however many years explainin to my kids why he does what he does.
( i spend enough time explainin why juan enc only gives max effort about 30 percent of the time and acts like every time he hits a homerun he acts like he is tha baddest man to ever swing a bat ) ill take a guy like Duncan anyday

when all seems lost just watch baseball if that dont work drink another beer and try again

by cardinalsfannafslanidrac on Jan 25, 2007 11:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

WAIT

why not just wait and replace juan with j. dye or another free agent. we cant trade reyes because he his a good cheap starter. wain ,colby are not going to be trade. the only one you would trade would be duncan. and even for him it has to be the right trade.

i like crawford but he is not worth what we would have to give up

SWH

by BRINGBACKWILSON on Jan 27, 2007 6:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs