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Game 136 Open Thread: September 4, 2006


marquis             ortiz
14-12, 5.86        9-12, 5.34

anthony reyes' strong outing yesterday did nothing to settle the running argument among cardinal fans over la russa and duncan's (mis)handling of this rookie pitcher. on the contrary, opinions in the chat rooms vary as widely as ever re the ill-fated 2-seam experiment and the role it played in reyes' up-and-down season to date. my own position is pretty well known; no need to pound that carcass any further. rather than keep going around in circles about it, let me propose a few things that all cardinal fans might agree on:

  • the way reyes pitched yesterday is the way he should pitch from here on out. he didn't pitch to contact, he pitched away from it; and he didn't feature the 2-seam fastball, he pitched off his natural 4-seamer. that approach gets the best results for this particular pitcher at this point in his career. over the long haul, he will probably need to diversify his attack; but for the immediate future, no more tinkering --- he should keep doing what he did yesterday. no matter whose idea it was.
  • he has earned the license to suck for an outing or two. he's not going to hold them scoreless every time; he's going to get scored on sometimes, maybe even in bunches. if he has a 4-inning, 5-run outing, shrug it off and send him back out there. marquis weaver and mulder haven't had to pitch while looking over the shoulder this year; reyes shouldn't have to, either.
  • he could be a big factor in the postseason. the cardinals have been trying since november to find a #2 pitcher to complement carpenter --- a pitcher whose stuff is good enough that he doesn't have to make a perfect pitch to get hitters out. suppan and marquis (and dear old mulder) are precision pitchers;  if they miss by 3 inches they get hammered, especially by playoff-caliber offenses. very few guys can make perfect pitches consistently under october pressure.  but reyes doesn't have to; he has enough movement on his pitches, and enough ability to change speeds, that he can catch a few inches of the plate and still miss the fat part of the bat. the cardinals have been chasing pitchers like that --- aj burnett, javy vazquez, dontrelle willis --- since the end of last season. reyes may not have the resume of those pitchers, but he does have that type of ball-throwing ability --- when he's on, he can shut down any offense. just ask the white sox.
re the other star of yesterday's game: albert's exploits speak for themselves. i'll look instead at the slump albert carried into the fray, and which (we may hope) ended with the 3-hr outburst. albert began the day yesterday in a 16-game slide dating back to august 16 --- 14-for-62 (.226) in that span --- and fans and broadcasters alike had started to fret over his uncharacteristically weak production. turns out that such stallouts aren't uncharacteristic at all; albert slogs through at least one stretch like this every season. for example, last season --- his mvp year --- he weathered a 14-game dip (august 7 thru 23) in which he batted .245 with 3 hr and 8 rbi. in 2004 --- while finishing 2d in the mvp race --- pujols hit .242 (16 for 66) with 2 homers and 4 rbi during a 17-game span between april 21 and may 8. a month later (june 3 -29) he was scuffling again --- 18 for 76 (.237) with 3 hr, 11 rbi over 21 games.

even baseball's greatest hitter routinely gets humbled by the game. nothing to do about it but wait until he slugs his way out of the doldrums.

i think this year's slump stands out more distinctly, and caused more concern, because it has coincided with the sidelining of eckstein and edmonds, which weakens an already thin supporting cast. more than ever, pujols and rolen are the whole offense; when one of them stops hitting for a few games, there's nobody else who can pick up the slack.

but that's not the players' fault. they're still gonna have slumps.

it also should be pointed out that during this just-ended slack time, albert managed to hold or share the team lead in homers (4), rbis (16), and walks (7). it's not as if the guy pulled a disappearing act. more like he fell into a random, meaningless rut, as is inevitable in a long season. sure, he's had some ugly at-bats; but he always adjusts. i'm not worried about him.

the other day i wondered (last paragraph) whether the cardinals might become the 1st team in history to have 3 diff'nt pitchers win their 100th game in the same season. turns out it has happened twice before; rob at the birdwatch names the two teams.

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Good comments
I agree. It was a beautiful thing watching him blow away the first 3 batters he faced.

On another note, Dave Campbell, one of the ESPN baseball analaysts is a moron. On Mike and Mike this morning he said that if the MVP award went to he BEST player in the league not the most valuable to his team, in the NL it would go to Carlos Beltran. Albert is having a better year than Beltran statistically.

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 9:48 AM EDT reply actions  

it's funny, but
people take albert for granted. he goes .330 / .430 / .650, and people just shrug --- it's a typical year, quite routine, not attention-grabbing.

by lboros on Sep 4, 2006 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

It seems as if Albert's consistency makes it harder for him to win the MVP.

by indakind on Sep 4, 2006 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm starting to wonder
if ESPN just pulls random people off the street and asks them if they would like to be analysts...
"Do you find me sadistic?"

by iron duke75 on Sep 4, 2006 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

taking albert for granted...
i totally agree that albert is already being taken for granted by the non-stl baseball world.  was listening to ben mallard on fox sports radio and he was talking about thenl mvp race.  he said howard should get the mvp (which i have no problem w/at all), b/c it's time for the young guys to get some of the attention...ummm memo to mr mallard:  pujols is 2 months younger than the amazing mr. howard!!!

albert has been so good for so long now that everyone just assumes he is in his 30s.

by duckymedwick7 on Sep 4, 2006 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Carlos Beltran?!
<pause>

Who's that?

<listens to teleprompt>

Oh. Why him?

...pssst...I don't really like those baseball 'analysists'....

Hope springs enternal.

by Squeaky on Sep 4, 2006 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Mama always said
Marquis pitching is like a box of chocolates...you never know what you're gonna get...

Mama always had a way of explaining things so I could understand them...

"Do you find me sadistic?"

by iron duke75 on Sep 4, 2006 9:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Games like yeserday's make me smile
when thinking about the future.

Oh, and I'd like to thank ESPN for the lack of freaking highlights.

Something I'd pay for on On Demand TV?   Pick a team, get yesterday's highlights.  Maybe a 5m or 10m game summary.  

by sdrone on Sep 4, 2006 9:59 AM EDT reply actions  

mlb.com
as you probably know, is your answer.  $99 for unlimited on-demand games (and game summaries of various lengths--or choose a half inning) isn't bad at all.  and with their new "mosaic" feature (6 games on the screen at once) you can separately/simultaneously log in to mlb.com and listen to rooney/shannon while watching the game on mosaic--with hrabosky muted.  simple pleasures for a guy in belgium.
watching from Belgium

by waffle on Sep 4, 2006 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Its too bad
Reyes doesn't pitch for the yankees or the sox. They would have shown every strike out Reyes got. Then they would have shown every hit the Cardinals got. The yankee/red sox/(now that football season has started) Notre Dame network is always on top of things.

by TNFan32 on Sep 4, 2006 10:14 AM EDT reply actions  

dont forget
(on the football note) the patriots.

by stlcardinalsfang on Sep 4, 2006 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh no shit...
... it's Boston/NYC even in their NFL coverage. i am so sick of hearing about the %&*#$@ Jets! they suck! stop talking about them!

by kindred on Sep 4, 2006 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah...
Yeah I forgot about them. Thanks ha ha.

by TNFan32 on Sep 4, 2006 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

High Heat...
did not seem to be Flat Hat's primary weapon yesterday.  If the WB11 radar gun can be believed, he was topping out at 92 MPH... which is a good major-league fastball, but not a dominating heater.  (For that, see Detroit's rooks... Verlander, Zumaya, etc.)

That said, I thought Reyes did an excellent job of throwing fastballs for strikes DOWN in the zone, and putting people away with the four-seamer up OUT of the zone (above the letters) and his truly nasty changeup.  When he put the fastball between the belt and the letters, he got hit hard... but he didn't do it very often.

Ain't no law I know of sez ya can't throw a four-seamer between the thighs and the knees for strikes.  As with everybody else, it's all about location.  Eventually, I think Reyes will learn some other pitch (2-seamer, cutter, "pulling the string") that will look like his fastball, but have a sinking action.  But the place to learn that pitch is in the bullpen during side sessions.  "Dance with who brung ya," kid... keep being aggressive with that fastball!

"A man should live forever, or die trying." -- Mike Callahan

by The Ol Goaler on Sep 4, 2006 10:36 AM EDT reply actions  

agreed --- he didn't
only pitch up in the zone. he moved his 4-seam fastball around within the strike zone.

that's not anything new for the rook. he pitched that way last season and was very successful. he's a polished pitcher --- pitches to spots, changes speeds. not just a rare-back-n-throw-em guy.

he relies on command, not pure speed --- but that's why the 2-seamer business was so ill-advised. he can't spot that pitch effectively, and without command he's disarmed.

he can put the 4-seamer where he wants it consistently; if they'll just leave him alone now and let him throw that pitch, i expect that he'll be more consistently effective.

hopefully

by lboros on Sep 4, 2006 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pujols and Reyes fastball
Albert is the last player i'd ever worry about, health issues aside.

as for "Flat Hat" (nice nickname) he may throw 92, but his fastball has pretty good movement. rather that then a 95 mph'er that's straight as an arrow.

i do seem to remember seeing what looked like a cutter or 2 in yesterday's game.

aka "the Rev"

by erik on Sep 4, 2006 10:56 AM EDT reply actions  

Go Cards!
Let's hope the offense shows up again or this could be a long day for the bullpen which has been well-rested over the weekend (which they have deserved).

Let's prove Steve Phillips wrong

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 11:18 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Let's prove Steve Phillips wrong
they don't have to; he does a good job of proving himself wrong everytime he opens his mouth.
Oh, btw... I'd put Beltran 3rd in the MVP balloting, behinbd Howard and Pujols, in that order.

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2006 11:23 AM EDT reply actions  

well...
On this note, prove him wrong in everything but Carp's pitching since he predicted Carp would win a CYA again

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

As I recall it was on a trip to Washington
last year that Marquis pitched an amazing game and gave everyone fleeting hope that he had finally got his head screwed on straight.

Yup, here's the box score. Complete game two-hit shutout, only 91 pitches, and zero walks. Here's hoping for a repeat!

http://sportsline.com/mlb/gamecenter/boxscore/MLB_20050827_STL@WAS

by BTown Birds fan on Sep 4, 2006 11:31 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm screwed the next three days...
I have both EI and MLBtv, and still won't be able to watch the games with the Nats, because I live in the blackout area. Their tv contract isn't even on the radar in this area..

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2006 11:33 AM EDT reply actions  

tell me about it ...
I live 10 miles from RFK and I'm not any closer to watching this game on TV than when they're playing in Los Angeles.

I was supposed to go watch the game with a friend but she bailed on me.  Oh well, maybe I can get it on the radio.

I blame Peter Angelos.

by dontEATnachos on Sep 4, 2006 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you live 10 miles from RFK
...go to the game.  Upper reserve tickets are $3 now.  I saw that on the broadcast yesterday.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 4, 2006 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also
put some blame in Selig's lap because he cowtows to the owners.

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2006 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

same in Baltimore
Living in Baltimore, I am in the same boat w/r Cards-Nats.

I remember seeing a full page add in The Sun recently that I thought congratulated the parties on reaching an agreement to bring MASN (Angelos' Nats' TV network) to Comcast beginning 9/1.  Either I misread it, something fell through, or they missed their target date.

I mostly blame Comcast, but the whole ordeal has been dispicable.

by Speedy G on Sep 4, 2006 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I forgot
that mlb.com relaxed the blackout for the Nats. I've got it on mlbtv right now...

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2006 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Today should be interesting....
...if this were April, Albert would hit a 1st or 3rd inning HR and drive in 3 or 4 for the day.  If it is last week, he'll have a double..a couple rbis and a strikeout.

I hope it's April again.  It sure felt like it yesterday.  Would be nice to send a message with another 2 HR game today that the Big Guy is back.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 4, 2006 11:34 AM EDT reply actions  

Damn, dude
you get to watch and cheer for the best offensive player baseball's seen since the 60s.  He has the right to go through 5 or 10 game slumps every once in a while.  Just enjoy Albert--he and Reyes singlehandedly won a game last night, and you can't expect him to hit a HR every game, or even every other game.

Just imagine what it's like to be a non-Cardinals fan when another team is playing against StL, and Albert is at the plate.

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Been there, as a Cards fan
the guys were named Mays, Aaron and Clemente.  

Especially Clemente.  There's something about Clemente's intensity at the plate that really comes across from AP.  

The cat is fine, thank you.

by Intheway on Sep 4, 2006 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm really sick of these posts...
...the fact that you can't comment on Albert's hitting without getting attacked for 'talking down' Pujols.

Nowhere in there did I say anything bad about Albert, I only commented on the fact that yesterday felt like his amazing April start and I hoped it would continue to do so.

Sod off.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 4, 2006 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

you have a right to say it
and he has a right to challenge it.

by lboros on Sep 4, 2006 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough
but I'm getting sick of these posts asking "what's wrong with Albert?!" when, even the 'roided-up Barry Bonds would have 10 game slumps, and, as last night very clearly attests, there is nothing wrong with Albert.

There was every reason to be skeptical of Albert's ability to maintain his production level in April (I went as far to wonder if it was steroids, just because his production was too absurd to believe), and there was every reason to believe that he'd start producing again when he went down the stretch.

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Flat Hat....
Put on a pitching clinic.  Totally in control....his game plan worked.  And what about that curve of Wainwright's?  He was spot on.  Then Hancock....well, what can I say?  He was off, and he's got a groin injury he's recovering from, so I'm not going to scream at him.  But Izzy?  He got a SAVE for that performance?  They need to change the rule.  He came closer to trying to blow a save than an actual save.  When you see the save numbers for him, just remember the story behind them.  Now, Marquis.....? will it be good Jason or bad Jason?  Albert is a baseball superman.... go out and hit seven today!

by jillsinmo on Sep 4, 2006 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

not a save, but an uh-oh outing
I don't think it counts as a save since he didn't enter the game in a save situation -- until Izzy let two score, the lead was greater than three and you can't create your own save situation.  MLB doesn't score it as a save, so he's gotta get to 250 honestly.

by Elle on Sep 4, 2006 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lineup
Lineup
Aaron Miles SS
Chris Duncan LF
Albert Pujols 1B
Scott Rolen 3B
John Rodriguez RF
Preston Wilson CF
Ronnie Belliard 2B
Gary Bennett C
Jason Marquis P

I've doublechecked this time that I did leave any typos in there like I did Saturday where I had Carp pitching

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 12:32 PM EDT reply actions  

i'm happy to see j-rod
in the lineup. he could be a valuable asset on the postseason roster --- esp. as a dh, if the cards sneak into the series.

hope he can remind la mastermind of his abilities.

by lboros on Sep 4, 2006 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I gotta say..
I really like that lineup...  The Wilson/Belliard pickups are REALLY starting to grow on me.  

by stltrav09 on Sep 4, 2006 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Belliard!
Man, I gotta see Belliard in AAA when he was with the Brewers system.  He batted .321 that year I think with 14 homers.  He has the power but I don't know if that was due to the AAA pitching or not.

I love this Wilson pickup and I hope we can sign Ronnie for longer than this year

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

wish you could have
had carp in the lineup today, too!

by chuckb on Sep 4, 2006 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes!
J-Rod is back!

by ryanisforever on Sep 4, 2006 12:40 PM EDT reply actions  

With Ramon Ortiz pitching
I predict a barrage of long balls.

by 26thMan on Sep 4, 2006 12:44 PM EDT reply actions  

same here
I hope we get the good Marquis showing up too

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Link
Not sure if anyone has linked it here but Bernie wrote an aricle today regarding Reyes and his handling. Interesting comments from Duncan. See for yourself:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/berniemiklasz/story/D2212E70FA3C5C19862571DF0 013C9C9?OpenDocument

Go Cards. Have a safe and fun Labor Day all.

by indakind on Sep 4, 2006 12:44 PM EDT reply actions  

i just have somewhat of a hard time buying it
esp. when this spring TLR's words were "he can't be succesful w/o it" referring to the 2 seamer. regardless, it seems the kid gloves are off anthony for now, or at least it seems.
aka "the Rev"

by erik on Sep 4, 2006 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah those duncan comments
are a load of horseshit.

these guys can never admit to being wrong --- ever.

by lboros on Sep 4, 2006 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

reserving judgment...
... Reyes definately was throwing more change-ups after beaning Francouer. i noticed it. yesterday he worked the fastball, like he did against the ChiSox.

and all i got from Duncan's comments was this:

and 12 home runs in 64 innings is WAY too many, no matter what kind of fastball he's throwing. Reyes isn't going to be able to consistenly blow 92 mph fastballs past MLB hitters. if he can't keep the ball down, he's gonna get rocked. they're trying to get him to keep the ball down and he's trying to learn how to do it.

now, i find none of that to be horseshit. in fact, it's all perfectly logical.

i wish people would just realize what Reyes is: a decent - not great - pitcher who is young and inconsistent. every time he has a bad game it isn't Duncan's fault, and every time he has a good one it isn't because he's bucking Dunc's teaching. he ain't Bob Gibson; he's just a kid who's trying to learn how to win in the big leagues.

by kindred on Sep 4, 2006 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

what's horseshit
about duncan's remarks is that he is trying to take credit for changes reyes has made in the last two weeks. the truth is, those changes amount to a rejection of duncan's 2-seam experiment.

duncan wanted reyes to pitch down in the strike zone; good advice. but instead of working w reyes to keep his 4-seamer down, he forced a new pitch upon reyes --- and it didn't work.

if duncan could admit a mistake, he might concede the obvious --- the 2-seamer was a bad fit for reyes, and they had to find another way to get him to keep the ball down, the answer was what reyes favored all along: the 4-seamer. he's been working on throwing that pitch to the bottom half of the zone, and it has achieved the necessary results.

nobody ever compared reyes to bob gibson; that's a straw man. nobody even said he was a future ace pitcher. he doesn't have to be either of those things to help this team in 2006. he just has to be an above-league-avg pitcher --- a #3 type starter, with luck a #2 type.

given his minor league numbers and scouting reports, those were not / are not unrealistic expectations.

by lboros on Sep 4, 2006 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

straw man?
i wasn't saying anyone was comparing Reyes to Gibson. i was just saying that everyone's expectations for him are pretty high. if he ends up being a good #3 pitcher for a long time, i'll be kind of amazed. to me, his ceiling looks similar to Marquis's. Reyes may end up performing better than Marquis over the next few years, and he may end up being worse. but i don't think he's ever going to end up consistently dominating teams like Carpenter does, or like Reyes did against the Pirates.

he's only got two pitches that he can control, he's prone to injury and giving up lots of HRs, and he's struggled with BBs in the majors. he can't seem to pitch past the 6th inning (or even to the 6th) with any consistency. some of that may be attributed to his attempted incorporation of the 2-seamer, but certainly not all of it.

i guess i just see a lot of people here laying a lot of blame on Dunc without enough cause. there's certainly plenty of insinuation on the net to that effect. maybe yesterday's start is a sign of things to come; maybe Reyes has learned how to win in the big leagues; maybe Dunc will "let him" pitch the way that he has in the minors.

or maybe he just pitched well (and got phenomonal defensive help) against one of the worst teams in baseball, who had similar struggles against Weaver the day before.

i mean, i like Reyes a lot. i'm happy that i'll get to see him for the next few years, and i certainly think he's a better postseason option than Marquis. i hope Reyes has a great career with the Cardinals. but my expectations are fairly low. if i were the Cardinals, i'd go into next season expecting him and Wainwright to be my #4 and #5 starters, posting ERAs around 4.50; i.e. average pitchers whose value to the team is expanded by paying them minimum salaries, but not my #2 and #3 guys.

and Duncan isn't going to say that trying to teach Reyes the 2-seamer is a mistake because he doesn't think it is. i don't either, insofar as it would give him another good pitch that could really help keep hitters off-balance, and he needs another good pitch that he can control. i'd prefer them to tinker with it in the offseason/ spring training/ minor leagues rather than in the middle of a pennant race, but so would they: TLR/Dunc never intended for Reyes to get so much big-league action this year.

anyway, whatever. i'm not saying you're wrong. all i'm saying is that i'm not convinced you're right. i've never seen a pitch-chart or any sort of empirical evidence suggesting that Reyes's 2-seamer is what gives him the majority of his trouble. but that sentiment is bandied about as if it were some indisputable fact. i just don't see it that way. there is a learning-curve for any pitcher learning any new pitch, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea.

by kindred on Sep 4, 2006 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

noone's saying that he shouldn't learn the pitch
just that he shouldn't feature it until he's actually mastered it--making him feature a pitch he can't locate leads to endless walks.

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree to an extent...
... but then he should stop throwing curveballs also. he can't control those either. i've seen Reyes throw some kind of cutter/slider that he can't control too.

i'm not scout or anything, but i've watched every start of Reyes's MLB career, and i can't pick up on anything (in velocity, movement, etc.) that tells me that his issues this season are the fault of the 2-seam fastball. and, like i said before, i've heard of no empirical evidence to back this up (pitch-charts, etc.).

it's all about his control, which has been spotty with all of his pitches this year. when he can locate well, he pitches well. when he can't, he walks guys, and then a HR can kill him, and he's averaging nearly one dinger every 4 innings (perhaps because he's throwing high 4-seamers?).

like i said, he's a good (not great) young pitcher who is going through some growing pangs. he will be inconsistent. and i don't think that Dunc and the 2-seamer are the only reasons why.

by kindred on Sep 4, 2006 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

you're exaggerating
reyes' home-run rate. he has yielded 1 per 6 innings --- 12 hr in 71 innings --- not one per 4 innings, as you claim. now, 1 per 6 is nothing to brag about --- it's a bad ratio. but it's still a better rate than weaver (1 per 5 innings) or marquis (1 per 5.5 innings).

the beat writers have done a very nice job documenting the 2-seam vs 4-seam tug of war. if you've not followed it, i can't rehash six months of history in this space; perhaps a diary is in order to document this narrative. but simply read the wrapup of the pittsburgh game published at the team's official site:

Tossing 80 percent four-seam fastballs, the rookie consistently worked ahead and rarely got behind in counts. Earlier in the season, he would rack up nearly 100 pitches through five innings. On Sunday, he spread just 75 tosses over the first 15 outs.
it's not hard to read betw the lines there. he threw mostly 4-seamers; he pitched with command. earlier in the season, when he labored through 5-inning stints, he was still throwing that stupid 2-seamer at duncan's insistence. the chronology of the 2-seamer's usage is not in dispute; i'll work up a diary this evening to document it.

reyes would have had his growing pains no matter what --- i agree with you there. that's why the 2d point on my list in this point is that "reyes should have the license to suck," and why i acknowledged that he's going to get beat up sometimes.

but if he's got to get beat up, let him do it with his best stuff. it's difficult enough to break into the big leagues even when you're throwing the pitches you trust and believe in. reyes was forced to throw a pitch he hadn't mastered, and that made his transition to the big leagues --- an inherently difficult process --- more difficult than ever.

by lboros on Sep 4, 2006 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

i've read all the beat writers...
... and all of them have alluded to his using the 2-seamer, as you have and others on the board. i'm not disputing that he's used it. i'm just saying that i don't know if that's really the main reason why he's strugggled. that's the speculation here - that Reyes lost a few games primarily because he was "forced" to throw a pitch that he didn't want to throw. i just find that a tough pill to swallow without any sort of real analysis of pitch data. it is just as plausible to me that Reyes gave up some of these runs - even most of them - while throwing the 4-seamer.

what he did yesterday was impressive. but again, he beat the worst team in the league. to consider this some sort of "victory" in the anti-Dunc campaign is probably over-stating the case; it's only one game. we'll see what Reyes is capable of over the long term. and, if he continues to live only on the 4-seamer, we'll see if he can sustain success. my guess (and Dunc's) is that he can't, at least without some complimentary pitches. other than his change, he hasn't got any.

again, i'm not saying the 2-seamer is good for Reyes. i've just never seen any actual evidence that the majority of the damage against him this year has been because of that pitch. for all the groaning in Cardinal Nation on the subject, i just would've expected some sort of pitch-analysis by now. but i haven't seen one.

i did exaggerate the HR totals, but not intentionally. for some reason, i had it in my head that he'd given up 16 homers in 64 innings (before yesterday) instead of 12. thus the discrepancy. my bad.

by kindred on Sep 4, 2006 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's not a "victory"
for the "anti-dunc camp." if reyes pitches well, it's a victory for the team and the fans.

moreover, there is no "anti-dunc" camp. there are fans (quite a number) who disagree with how duncan has handled this particular pitcher, and how the organization handles young pitchers in general. that doesn't make us "anti-duncan" or "anti la russa."

re analysis --- i've watched ev'y reyes start and written afterward about his pitch selection, mix of 2-seamers / 4-seamers, etc. in this post i questioned the preponderance of off-speed pitches; here i contrasted reyes' start v the chisox with his late-july outings; in this post i described the initial backing away from the 2-seamer.

i don't have the sort of hard numerical analysis you're suggesting, and i don't think it would be useful. you can't parse out the "damage," pitch by pitch. take this example --- vs the braves, reyes gave up a couple of hr on high fastballs, butthey came on hitters' counts (3-1, 2-0) that were the result of reyes' throwing the 2-seamer early in the at-bat and falling behind.

do those hr support dave/tony's contention that big-league hitters will hammer reyes' high heat? or do they support us dunc-doubters who believe that reyes is most effective when he attacks with his 4-seamer, and uses it to set up every at-bat?

all in one's interpretation.

for which reason, i don't think i could ever "prove" to you that reyes' struggles this summer were exacerbated by the 2-seam experiment. i'm convinced that the 2-seam business disrupted reyes' entire rhythm and undermined even his good pitches; it deterred him from sequencing his pitches the way he likes to, and the way he has been successful. but i could probably never convince you of that; there'd always be room for interpretation.

so let's take another tack. all parties now agree that reyes made an adjustment down at memphis --- he went back to using the 4-seamer as his primary pitch, with the 2-seamer as a complement, a second look he can show to hitters. that's the approach he used sunday v the pirates, and one the organization now seems to be behind. if reyes is effective with that approach between now and the end of the year, might you then entertain the notion that the original 2-seam experiment --- ie the attempt to establish it as his primary pitch --- was counterproductive?

you're entitled to your opinion, and i'm not going to try to change it. all i care about is that the team gets the best use out of its resources. reyes is a resource who has been underutilized this year, to my great frustration and disappointment. if the team can get optimal yield out of him betw now and the end of the year, i'll be happy --- no matter how many horseshit quotes from duncan i have to read in the paper.  ;]

by lboros on Sep 5, 2006 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

MLB TV
I'm gonna go crazy if I hear the new Tom Petty song again...

Go Cards!

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Well we dodged it the first...
...half inning, but I'm not taking any chances and will be relying heavily on the mute control.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 4, 2006 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I'm going to abstain
from talking about that guy standing on the dirt hill in the middle of the infield.  That tactic seems to be working lately...

by Elle on Sep 4, 2006 1:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Is it me
or does Shannon sound even more ditzy than usual?

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2006 1:22 PM EDT reply actions  

GB
MASN is saying that he's picked up some of Pujols' mannerisms at the plate.

Also, they are comparing Ronnie to a certain hitter in Boston

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 1:28 PM EDT reply actions  

nice catch
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Someone tell Shannon
that the state bird of Virginia is the cardinal...

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2006 1:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Something about Marquis hitting
is that he seems to back away from the ball.  I know he's been a solid bat from the pitching spot, but someone should tell him to stand in there and drive the ball.  He's got the talent to do it, he just seems to want to back out of the box and slap at the ball.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 4, 2006 1:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Pujols to lead off the 4th
Duncan ALMOST went yard there.

The upper part of RFK is so empty.

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 1:40 PM EDT reply actions  

i thought that was out of here
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 1:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Soriano...
I wonder how many home runs he'd have if he played in a hitters park and had a lineup that would give him protection.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Yep.
I wonder if we could have had him in our lineup had Bowden not lost his mind entirely.

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Marquis...
he is going to screw up one way or another... he just balked after giving up a double...man on third now.

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

you said it...
especially now with 2 strikes on Soriano..

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, here's the BIG test of the day.
Soriano w/ 2 outs and the man on 3rd.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Sep 4, 2006 1:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Soriano needs some chin music...
he is practically on top of the plate.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 1:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Or I'll
take a swing and miss for strike 3 over the middle of the plate

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

WOW, Whoda thunk it?
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Sep 4, 2006 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

that was huge...
I have to give it to Marquis there...he did a great job after setting himself up for disaster.

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 1:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Sit down Soriano. Kneel down to Jason Marquis
our best pitcher!
It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 4, 2006 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

wow
maybe prayers do work, occasionally
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't like the Nats announcers
But then again, that's probably just because they're rooting for the Nats.

Is it just me or does Marquis work very slowly?

Hope springs enternal.

by Squeaky on Sep 4, 2006 1:52 PM EDT reply actions  

wasn't one of these guys...
a former Cards announcer?...he said you used to work for the Cards earlier.

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bob Carpenter
had done the WB-11 games for the last few years. Too bad he has to work with Wimpy Paciorek...

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2006 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speaking of the announcers
Didnt one of them use to be a Cards announcer? Cant place the name.

by FunkeeC on Sep 4, 2006 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know
I'm just listening to them.
Hope springs enternal.

by Squeaky on Sep 4, 2006 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

bob carpenter
he used to do channel 11's games

by lboros on Sep 4, 2006 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was my fav. TV announcer
better than the WB guys and the FSN guys in my oppinion. Very sad to see him leave, only to be replaced with Hagin.

by effin fisk on Sep 4, 2006 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay Scotty....
Time to bring it baby.....right here ..

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 1:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh, come on guys!!!
Let's do something!!
Hope springs enternal.

by Squeaky on Sep 4, 2006 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

cmon wilson
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Flat today....
at least Marquis looks sharp.

by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 4, 2006 1:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Poor Abs....
by both JROD and WILSON.  Guy with a below average fastball requires patience to get him in a hitter's count.  Both guys were too aggressive.  Tired of hearing a lot of Cards fans talk about how great Wilson has been.  I guess nobody is looking at the numbers.

by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 4, 2006 1:58 PM EDT reply actions  

An .829 OPS isn't horrible for a 4th outfielder
particualarly one with speed, and who was acquired from the DFA no-mans-land

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

esp. when our starting CF...
... can't remember his name, and wasn't playing well before he was injured.

i LOVE Wilson, if only because it means that Timo is gone.

by kindred on Sep 4, 2006 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are the manufacturers making
these bats out of balsa wood this year?
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Sep 4, 2006 1:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Is it just that MLB.TV is crappy....
or is the Nats stadium kind of...dreary? And the infield grass kind of dirty?
Hope springs enternal.

by Squeaky on Sep 4, 2006 1:59 PM EDT reply actions  

no..RFK
is not exactly a ray of sunshine, plus the rain that's been in my area all day is heading towards DC..

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2006 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lopez was out...
terrible call.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 2:00 PM EDT reply actions  

It was close
but I thnk you are right.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Sep 4, 2006 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was out...
just look at the replay. Belliard got the tag on him before he touched 2nd.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's fine...
but you can't deny what the replay showed....they paused it right when Belliard put the tag down, and Lopez had not touched the base yet.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok
I mean after all, what good is video proof anyways.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

we need to be more patient
cuz this guy is more than willing to throw some batting practice pitches
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 2:09 PM EDT reply actions  

damn
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 2:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Why cant this team be consistent
Its the most frustrating thing I have witnessed with this team.

by Poooo Daddy on Sep 4, 2006 2:10 PM EDT reply actions  

darn cmon get a hit
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 2:11 PM EDT reply actions  

fly balls and strikeouts
shorten your swings fellas. Its that simple. I wonder what the hell Hal tells these guys?

by Poooo Daddy on Sep 4, 2006 2:11 PM EDT reply actions  

No-hitter through 5?!?
This is just not right.  The Cards need to produce to where the ball does not find a glove!

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Marquis hits a HR
in the 8th.  It becomes the difference maker.

Or not.

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

seems...
that slider on the outside of the plate is fooling everyone...lots of lunging... Marquis has flirted with danger but gotten out of it...but we all know that will not last...we are heading into his "Doomsday" innings...

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

No hitter
by a guy with a 5+ ERA. This is sad.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Damn, that guy is fast!!!
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Sep 4, 2006 2:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Ronnie
is the man.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 2:20 PM EDT reply actions  

yes
that was a really heads-up play by Belliard. And a dumb play by the runner, w/Soriano on deck.

by DCRedbird on Sep 4, 2006 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

BELLI...
That was a reason to sign that guy for next year right there..

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:20 PM EDT reply actions  

wat a headsup play
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 2:22 PM EDT reply actions  

just an idea
Maybe we're approaching the no-hitter from the wrong side and we should all talk about it in an effort to jinx it.  (In the meantime, I'm keeping my mouth shut about our guy standing on the dirt hill.)

I'll go first.  Five innings, five strikeouts, and no hits?  Ortiz is on fire!  Let's see if he can make it six innings of no hits...

(SWEET play by Belliard!)

by Elle on Sep 4, 2006 2:23 PM EDT reply actions  

"Baby Pedro" is dynamite!!
Is there <u>any</u> way this no-no can end?

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

ESPN news' breaking news:
"Nats Ortiz No-Hitter Thru 6 vs. Cardinals"

That has to be the kiss of death. (please please please)

by Elle on Sep 4, 2006 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we don't get a hit this inning...
I really fear we could get no hit.
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 2:23 PM EDT reply actions  

I just get home
from st. louis (lb - ben and radine say hi) and effin ramon oritz has a not hitter through 5.  WHAAAT???

by sdesserman on Sep 4, 2006 2:24 PM EDT reply actions  

this guy has huge ears
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 2:24 PM EDT reply actions  

It's amazing we can't find a hole for a hit
in this Stadium which is bigger than the freaking Grand Canyon.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Sep 4, 2006 2:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Hands down....
our worst hitting effort in recent memory.  Pathetic....Nats will take lead with in the bottom of the 6th.

by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 4, 2006 2:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Do you ever show up...
to say anything positive?
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's so negative....
about making the comment that this is one our worst hitting performances that I can remember and predicting that the Nats will score given that they had the top of the order coming up.

by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 4, 2006 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

well.....either way?
I'm glad you were wrong ...whew!

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

6 IP
This is unbelievable.  Two pitchers with ERA over 5 have yet to give up a run.  One has yet to give up a hit.

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 2:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Close to impossible...
to hit one out of RFK.

by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 4, 2006 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which really makes the fact that Soriano
has so many HRs this year even more impressive.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Sep 4, 2006 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, Jason
please don't give Alfonso any more meatballs like that

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 2:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Got a gift in that DP
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Sep 4, 2006 2:34 PM EDT reply actions  

nice DP
now let's score some runs boys!

by DCRedbird on Sep 4, 2006 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

ok...
maybe that'll give 'em a kick in the ass..

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2006 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

c'mon Cards
Don't be afraid to let him pitch with a lead!

by Elle on Sep 4, 2006 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Rolen.....
just not swinging it well today at all...

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Please get a hit....
Anyone? Anyone?
That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 4, 2006 2:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Hal McRae....
should partly be held accountable for this poor showing by our hitters.  Big props to Jason for keeping up in this...

by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 4, 2006 2:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Do you mean...
just Today?....or all season?..

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know....
I haven't thought much about it to make a comment on the season because I have not watched the team day in and day out.  

As far as today, I do think Ramon Ortiz certainly deserves some credit.  He really is throwing the ball well.  However, our hitters are the most aggressive I've seen in the games that I've watched in a while...at one point we had made three outs on three pitches.  Certainly he can walk up and down the dugout and throw out some nuggets of wisdom one would think...

by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 4, 2006 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not McRae
Hal has nothing to do with this one.

It's their pitching and our lack of hitting

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

What?
Our hitting isn't doing THAT poorly this season. Pujols is on his way to a career year, Rolen is having a heck of a resurgence, Duncan is studly, Eck was at his career averages before getting hurt, Enc is doing well. The only disappointment is Yadier, and he has never done very well anyway. I don't see where you're coming from.

by aet15 on Sep 4, 2006 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

When did Ortiz
turn into a young lefthander?
The cat is fine, thank you.

by Intheway on Sep 4, 2006 2:39 PM EDT reply actions  

pathetic.....
this guy is just eating us up today....

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Take a pitch!
We had this guy at 36 pitches after two innings.
Since then most fools have been swinging at the first  $^%&*() pitch and making an out. Now near the end of the 7th his pitch count is only 80, 44 pitches for 5  innings. TLR should shoot anyone that swings at the first pitch and makes an out on it.

by Podlol on Sep 4, 2006 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

choose your own obscenity
This has the potential to be a fiery win or a crushing loss.

by Elle on Sep 4, 2006 2:41 PM EDT reply actions  

i liked carp's last game
1 hr, 56 minutes. that's what i'm talking about.

by effin fisk on Sep 4, 2006 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can you feel the story line now?
Belliard
Bennett
Marquis go in order in the 8th.

Miles
Duncan down quickly in the 9th.

Pujols hits HR in the 9th to break up no-hitter, Izzy gets the save.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 4, 2006 2:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I stand by my call in the 5th
a Jason Marquis solo shot in the 8th will be the difference

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 2:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm not sure who to believe
Hardcore was awfully prophetic yesterday...

by Elle on Sep 4, 2006 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow
The sad thing, is there is not a doubt in my mind that that could happen.

by aet15 on Sep 4, 2006 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

close but no cookie
There was a pitcher with a HR in the 8th...  It just so happens he doesn't pitch for us.

by Elle on Sep 4, 2006 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

This sure is like....
Weavers outing against Pitt ....we get some pitching from one of our more questionable starters...and the offense disappears....it drives me to drink...more..

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:43 PM EDT reply actions  

I dont care
if its for the other team... I love to watch possible no-hitters. Great drama.

Apparently, Labor Day loves non-no's, and I think karma is getting back at the Bud Smith affair from 5 years ago.

Also, good outing by Mr Marquis.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 4, 2006 2:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Hrabosky
says that "Marquis in some ways has pitched better than Ortiz because he's had to pitch out of jams."

No Al. A pitcher who makes jams and gets out of them is not pitching better than the other pitcher who is crafting a no-hitter.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Sep 4, 2006 2:45 PM EDT reply actions  

How bout now Al?
Eh, is Marquis still pitching better?
Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Sep 4, 2006 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Al Hrabrosky has no idea what
is going to come out of his mouth everytime he opens it.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Sep 4, 2006 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

my god
dan & al make statements like this all the time.  i can't stand it.  of course, less than a minute later, a 2 run homer.

by jdub176 on Sep 4, 2006 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

and it begins...
a 4 pitch walk to start off the inning.... his FIRST of the day....but still..you can almost feeling it coming...and there it is..

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:45 PM EDT reply actions  

On a plus side
Has anyone notice Zambrano's outing? He's getting crushed. His infitinite walks finally came back to hurt him.

by aet15 on Sep 4, 2006 2:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Gut check time
Lets see if Marquis can  buckle down after that and get out of the inning. Usually  it seem  we get a 5 run inning from him

by Podlol on Sep 4, 2006 2:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Wish granted
now it's time to show Ortiz how flukey 7 innings of no-hit ball actually are

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

why is it
whenever marquis pitches i'm incredibly depressedno matter what the outcome is.

by bretsyboo on Sep 4, 2006 2:48 PM EDT reply actions  

and the no-no...
is looking better and better of happening now... six more outs..

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:48 PM EDT reply actions  

well e knew that was coming
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 2:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Why do I feel completely defeated now?
I should feel like we can come back here, but......ugh.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 4, 2006 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Killer B's batt next
Belliard and Bennett, & a PH.
At teh rate we are going Albert will get to make the last Ab of the No hitter

by Podlol on Sep 4, 2006 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

A little off topic but
does anyone else hope we try to acquire Ryan Church in the offseason.  He's really in the doghouse in DC and has authored a .800+ OPS for the last two years in 421 ABs

I think you could expect:
AVG in the .260-.280 range
OBP in the .350-.370 range
SLG in the upper .400s

all while playing a good CF.  I really like him as a  player and think he would be a great acquistion.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Sep 4, 2006 2:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Not bad
Probably pretty cheap too. But that average scares me . . .

by aet15 on Sep 4, 2006 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm a fan ---
he's a far sight better than bigbie

by lboros on Sep 4, 2006 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dammit, Belliard
why did you swing at that?

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Can someone
please take a pitch or two? Is that toom much to ask?

by DCRedbird on Sep 4, 2006 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

alright....
... i'm sick of this shit. someone get a hit.

by kindred on Sep 4, 2006 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

oh man....
Spezio coming in to break up the no hitter...it ends here.

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

you have to hand it to Ortiz today ...
the guy has made them all look like fools up there...

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

damn in busch we would have been ahead
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

for all the ballpark bitching
there is one guy who got it out of the park.

by effin fisk on Sep 4, 2006 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

make that two
some days there nothing you can do.

by effin fisk on Sep 4, 2006 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

two pitches
two outs
The cat is fine, thank you.

by Intheway on Sep 4, 2006 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

perhaps sosa
though I guess the bullpen's been pretty rested as of late

by Valatan on Sep 4, 2006 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't forget
Ortiz is going to have to face Dunc and Pujols in the top of the 9th.  I don't think he can put them both away.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Sep 4, 2006 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

hes done it three times before today
R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Sep 4, 2006 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe poo and dunc
wil see the light and hit back jacs
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Well boys...
that is the ol' ball game....

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

The Best Day
Of Mr. Ortiz's Baseball life.
Cheers

by Alxfritz on Sep 4, 2006 2:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, this is just too much.
Broglio for Brock!!!

by allenbrent on Sep 4, 2006 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

ROFL
It is fitting I guess.

by FunkeeC on Sep 4, 2006 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow.
that's crazy loud, even on the radio.

by effin fisk on Sep 4, 2006 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh Jesus...
...Cards are going to be the laughing stock of this 24 hour news cycle.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 4, 2006 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

nah
some days there nothing you can do. this was one of them. the world isn't going to be laughing at the cardinals, they'll be clapping for Ortiz.

by effin fisk on Sep 4, 2006 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow
Sosa just gave up a home run to quite possibly the worst hitting pitcher in the league.

by ryanisforever on Sep 4, 2006 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Somebody please
Has anyone tried to drop a bunt on this guy yet?

by DimitroffVodka on Sep 4, 2006 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

throw him a god damn curve
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 2:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Well...
when its your day...it's your day I guess....tip of the cap to him, and lets get 'em tomorrow.

by Timbo02 on Sep 4, 2006 2:57 PM EDT reply actions  

overflow thread
is up for the top of the 9th

by lboros on Sep 4, 2006 2:57 PM EDT reply actions  

no hitter no hitter no hitter
Hey.. Did you guys know that Ramon Ortiz is throwing a no hitter?  Only three more outs and he has a no hitter!

by stltrav09 on Sep 4, 2006 2:57 PM EDT reply actions  

No bunt attempts
We've been too busy makine first pitch flyouts

by Podlol on Sep 4, 2006 2:57 PM EDT reply actions  

At least
It's a win in Carp's book. Zambrano's out after 1 and a third. He's already given up 5, and responsible for one runner on base.

But otherwise, this Cards game is sick.

by aet15 on Sep 4, 2006 2:58 PM EDT reply actions  

wow maybe well get to him finally
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 2:58 PM EDT reply actions  

The kind of game you dream about
when you're nine years old with your glove under your pillow.  I don't know how he didn't get to break up the shutout with his HR, but otherwise give Ortiz his storybook day.
The cat is fine, thank you.

by Intheway on Sep 4, 2006 2:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Silver Lining
At least Marquis kept us in a game deep. This must be his best start since the AS game? Thats 4 quality starts in a row for the starters. When was the last tiem we saw that?

by Podlol on Sep 4, 2006 2:59 PM EDT reply actions  

just one of those days...
... i guess. not sure if Fate would allow the Cards to win this one in any circumstance.

by kindred on Sep 4, 2006 2:59 PM EDT reply actions  

I'll fix this....
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter
no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter no-hitter

There.

by craig3410 on Sep 4, 2006 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

New pitcher
Randy Flores to face Nick Johnson

Reminder: In June, Reyes had a no hitter til the 9th inning when Thome went yard

by cardsfan84 on Sep 4, 2006 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

I think
it was actually perfect until the 7th.

by Elle on Sep 4, 2006 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

not quite, my bad
It was perfect until the 5th, when Dye reached on Gooch's error.  It continued to be a no-hitter until the 7th when Thome homered.

by Elle on Sep 4, 2006 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

cmon offense, please
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 3:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Just one hit!!!
Just dont get no hit!! If he gets miles and dunc out he will probably intent walk big Al

by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 4, 2006 3:08 PM EDT reply actions  

finally
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

ha ha YAY

by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 4, 2006 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

AARON MILES FOR PRESIDENT
getting aaron miles just became worth it

by bretsyboo on Sep 4, 2006 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

espn is we-todd-did
"Edmonds breaks up Ortiz no-hitter in 9th"

by Elle on Sep 4, 2006 3:11 PM EDT reply actions  

HA!
no hitter?  nah.  shutout?  nah.

Hell is at 34 degrees, close, but not quite the end of the world.

by bretsyboo on Sep 4, 2006 3:12 PM EDT reply actions  

albert
"jizzy izzy makes my dizzy cuz he keeps the basepaths buzy"

by jcarro100 on Sep 4, 2006 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

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