Game 135 Open Thread: September 3, 2006

reyes snell
4-6, 4.73 12-8, 4.70
First and foremost, thanks to lboros for letting me contribute to such a great blog. VEB is something I read every day and I'm honored to be able to write here. I loved writing for my own departed blog, Reverend Redbird, but just didn't have the time to do it the way I would have liked with a lot of stuff going on personally. But this once-a-week blogging here should work nicely.
***************
12 runners left on base. How the Pirates won the game, let alone shut the Cardinals out, is puzzling to say the least. I'd have to reckon that was the unluckiest loss of the season, and certainly had to be the unluckiest loss of Jeff Weaver's career. Just plain weird. According to the Win Expectancy Finder, the Cardinals had over a 60% probability of winning that game in 9 different scenarios. Credit Bucco reliever Solomon Torres, his strikeouts of Ronnie D-o-double-jizzle and P-Dub was worth 39.7% of Win Expectancy alone. Wilson looked absolutely ridiculous swinging for strike 3 on that splitter. It seems like the Cardinals have stranded an awful lot of hitters in 06, but looking at their team BA/RISP coming into last night's affair, the Cards are batting .284, good for 2nd in the NL behind the Dodgers. Huh.
The stat gurus at The Hardball Times have a metric called "clutch" , which roughly measures the number of runs a player has created by batting better with runners in scoring position. It accounts for BA/RISP and HR's with runners on. It also scores players negative runs for failing to score runners. I'm not saying it's an end all stat, just another way of looking at how players come through in key moments. Anyway, without breaking the team down pound for pound, the Cards as a team have scored a total of 6.4 clutch runs. Pujols has scored 10.7 of them. Take him out of the equation and the Cardinals as a team are a -4.3 runs clutch. Yeesh. It should be noted that most players don't repeat their clutch stats from one season to the next. (See, Taguchi, So and Eckstein, David.) But you'd like to see more big hits when they are needed, as that's something that's been lacking with this team. Oddly enough, one Cardinal player you could argue as being a consistent "clutch" hitter is Juan Encarnacion. In 04, he created 5.3 clutch runs, in 05: 8.6. So far in 06, 4.7. Maybe LaRussa wasn't so crazy about pinch-hitting Juan for Duncan a few weeks ago in Chicago afterall......
I'd be amiss if I didn't make mention of Weaver's solid outing last night. I wasn't able to watch all the game, but from what I was able to watch, he was relying on his fastball a lot more, very nice to see. I've always wondered why Weaver tries to fool around with so many different pitches when he already seems to have command of a pretty lively fastball.
Speaking of good fastballs, it'll be interesting to see Reyes's approach today. Reyes was the PCL player of the week last week, winning both games he started. In those starts he pitched 13 innings, allowed no runs, 9 hits, 3 walks and struck out 17. Says Reyes, "I was using the fastball like I used to. I was throwing the fastball and working it off all of my other pitches, as opposed to throwing more offspeed pitches. I just want to start going deeper into games and getting back to my old ways of using my fastball I just want to pitch and not try to go out there and worry about location as much. I just want to have fun pitching." Like he used to. There you have it Dunc. There you have it Tony. He doesn't need to screw with this other stuff. Let him throw fastballs. Let him mix in his change-up. As long has he's throwing strikes, screw the 2 seamer, screw the cutter. Let the kid do his thing. Let him have fun for cryin' out loud. Baseball is supposed to be fun.
Down on the farm, Blake Hawksworth continues to re-assert his prospect status, going 7 innings allowing 2 runs on 8 hits and a walk, striking out 8. But the real story of the Springfield game is the team scored 17 runs. My homeboy Nick Stavinoha has now raised his BA to .295 after having a terrible start to his season. He went 3 for 5 with a double and a walk. Mitch Boggs struck out 8 for Palm Beach, allowing 3 runs on 8 hits and a walk over 7 innings.
So says the rev, "go Cards." Enjoy your Sunday.
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Comments
erik nice post
i appreciate your invoking HT's "clutch" stat --- i never have paid much attn to it, but it's a nice little gadget-stat and does seem to capture things that the macro stats might miss. i'd like to see team-level "clutch" stats. my sense is that the cards, on the whole, are about average in that department --- ie, they neither waste nor capitalize upon an inordinately high pct of their opportunities --- but i'd like to see some numbers to back up that impression.
re the LOB thing, toris34 explained it nicely below. i'm partial to the team-LOB stat --- ie, you can only strand a runner once, so the cards' total for last night would be 12 LOB.
either way you look at it, an awful waste last night.
Erik
Sorry for going on that tangent but if you continually go back to the "numbers", Albert Pujols would never have ruined Brad Lidge's confidence and Kirk Gibson would never have walked out of the tunnel to send Dennis Eckersley to the showers.
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:09 AM EDT reply actions
Do you ask this because of an earlier post
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh, no
Very close to me.
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
That's my ticket also
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Got a cold Bud Light in my hand right now
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of die hard fans
Where the hell do you get Busch beer out here?
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Got the paver myself
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Right On!
Cool
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
I'm glad baseball isn't one of the most reliant sports on these things called statistics.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2006 4:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Come on Hardcore
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:08 AM EDT up reply actions
And if you want the stat that matters
Hardcore, you are a great and knowledgeable fan and I have great respect for you but don't come after me about stats. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes Tom Lawless hits a game winning home run... That is why Baseball is great.
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess....
What makes the offense look like a steaming pile of you know what right now is that Pujols isn't hitting the ball. Not because he HAS to drive in runner when runners are in scoring postion, but because you almost expect him to 90% of the time. When Aaron Miles or Speizo grounds out routinely to end a scoring opportunity, it's par for the course, when Pujols does it...we're screwed. With him hitting .250 with Runners in Scoring Position over the last month and two days, it puts extra pressure on the other offensive 3 on this team (Rolen, Duncan, Juan).
Think where we'd be right now over the last week and a half if not for Juan and Sno Cone. Scary thought.
If Pujols really isn't this healthy that it's brought on one of the worst slumps in his career, he either needs to rest that elbow or move to the #2 spot. Moving him to the # 2 spot will a)get him on base (walks in front of Duncan and Rolen b)get him more at-bats per game (slump breaker) c)gives Rolen more pitches to hit with Duncan batting 4th and Rolen in the 3 spot.
That is by all means not a permanant suggestion, as Pujols is our #3 hitter for the next 6 years at least. Sometimes, when a player is in a funk, you have to shake things up. Kinda like him chewing gum the other night and getting his seemingly only hits of the homestand.
We go nowhere without the Big Guy hitting.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2006 4:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Just one point
Another point
What I'm saying, Hardcore
Absolutely correct but Hardcore has a good idea.
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:52 AM EDT up reply actions
See Hardcore?
Also, Rolen did seem to like hitting 3rd when AP was down.
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I better not say because I might go against
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Little Dunc hits clean up and PW leads off
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Shit, I said too much!
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 4:58 AM EDT up reply actions
It's the tail end
absolutely not...
Noone who likes statistics
I love reading about hustle and drive and mechanics and the personal aspect of the sport--it's what makes it fun, interesting and not a goddamn computer simulation, but statistical analysis has a very important place in a sport with this damn many games.
And Albert in this "slump" is still beter than 98% of all baseball players. That's all anyone is saying. Not to mention that having the first half of this season, where he was out to break every single-season offensive record, to compare with is hardly fair--there is a reason why the RBI record is seventy years old. And yes, he should be getting more rest, and yes, he might have gotten brought back too fast. But complaining about his production right now is kind of silly in my mind.
Statistics
Anyway, the PURPOSE of statistics is to better understand the past, and attempt to -forecast- the future (Nostradamus style) to make better decisions.
IF I do A, then C will happen with likelihood p and D will happen with likelihood (1-p). IF I do B instead, then C will happen with likelihood q, and D will happen with likelihood (1-q). We want C to happen, and if p > q, then we do C. Very simple idea.
Now, the problem with baseball statistics, is we have absolutely no clue about causation, independence, etc., when it comes to something like baseball. In reality, it's very difficult to look at Brad Lidge throwing a slider to Albert Pujols and saying 'Albert will hit a homerun with probability 10%', because he either A) hits a homerun, or B) doesn't hit a homerun.
The same thing happens in insurance: you are either going to die this year, or you won't, but based on a HUGE amount of past data, we've developed what we believe is an accurate view of the past, by which we can predict the future, and price insurance. Likewise, in baseball, if you make certain assumptions of independence and the probability distributions of certain things (BABIP, etc.), then you can -attempt- to forecast the future behavior of players. To do so on a micro basis (pitch by pitch or at bat by at bat) is ludicrous, but on the macro basis, you'll be right more than wrong.
Now, some organizations of statheads (BP, etc.) are attempting to really 'solve' the randomness inherent in baseball, to varying degrees (check out Pecota predictions, etc.), but I'll tend to agree: stats that don't help predict the future are useless.
stats are like any other
SirVLCIV's distinction is the key --- the stats don't attempt to predict the future on a game-by-game, at-bat-by-at-bat basis. and it would be terrible if the stats could do that --- because who would watch if the games always went according to form?
on the other hand --- without stats to help us create our storylines, would a matchup betw pujols-lidge be as compelling?
I'm kind of partial
Obviously, I've made known my acceptance of the new breed of baseball statistics. They are a language unto themselves and can tell the story of a game, a player, a season. But they can be massaged any number of ways to tell you exactly what you want to hear.
I think I agree with you both
Well, Hardcore seems to have gone
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 5:09 AM EDT reply actions
rev,...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 3, 2006 9:22 AM EDT reply actions
LOB
okay, okay
sorry everyone. :) enjoy the game!
Quick Comment
On the other hand, the game was pretty unfortunate. It's pretty rough when you have guys on base and everything that can go wrong, does.
Hooray, Reyes!
Reyes and Stats
On the stats thing, it seems to me that it's very true what Iboros said about their ability to either clarify or distort. 1) The more specific a stat is the less reliable it is because it is inherently based on fewer incidences. 2) You also have to remember that each time you introduce a new stat you are introducing a scale with it also. You have to have some sort of understanding as to the overall picture or "feel" of that stat. Just like map projections, a stat will tend to make certain facts clearer and other facts obscured or distorted. So you have to learn a sense for how any given stat represents reality which takes time sometimes. 3) How the stat is constructed is quite important to the meaning of the stat. That's why there are multiple stats claiming to represent offensive production in different ways. Again, each time you introduce a new one you have to realize it will project a different picture.
So for that reason there seems to be two strategies to using stats. 1)You can learn to use old stats better. 2) You can create new stats. Neither of these can be used in exlusion to the other. You have to balance them.
by 1985kid on Sep 3, 2006 2:13 PM EDT reply actions
The five year statute of....
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 3, 2006 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
You're probably right
Lineups
C. Duffy cf
J. Bautista 3b
F. Sanchez ss
X. Nady rf
J. Bay lf
R. Paulino c
R. Doumit 1b
J. Castillo 2b
I. Snell p
St. Louis
A. Miles ss
C. Duncan lf
A. Pujols 1b
S. Rolen 3b
J. Encarnacion cf
P. Wilson rf
R. Belliard 2b
Y. Molina c
A. Reyes p
Anyone know anything about this Reyes kid we've got pitching today? Seems they called him up from Memphis for September Call-Ups. Wonder what kind of stuff he's got. Hope he has a good 2-seamer.
its good to see reyes throwing 92
by jcarro100 on Sep 3, 2006 2:21 PM EDT reply actions
Reyes isn't listening to anyone
Hey, I'll take a kid striking people out but I'd like it if he'd hit his spots a little better.
I'm gonna be splitting my attention
Wow...
Uh...
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2006 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That is a very beautiful thing to see
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 2:31 PM EDT reply actions
Got the Pittsburgh feed out here in LA
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
well, i saw the homerun, then right after it was a
crap
The fact that.
I had a dream that Pujols hit HRs
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2006 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
if only albert hit that last night
by jcarro100 on Sep 3, 2006 2:36 PM EDT reply actions
should still be a no hitter
by jcarro100 on Sep 3, 2006 2:42 PM EDT reply actions
i bet he throws a 1hitter
by jcarro100 on Sep 3, 2006 2:43 PM EDT reply actions
he's been
OH Preston
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 3, 2006 2:46 PM EDT reply actions
Snell looks tough
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 3, 2006 2:48 PM EDT reply actions
that outside slider, or sinker
Scouting report
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 2:48 PM EDT reply actions
Wonder if YaDI will K
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 3, 2006 2:49 PM EDT reply actions
At least Yadi got Reyes out of the way
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 2:53 PM EDT reply actions
man these Pitt announcers ....
Got Duffy twice now........
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 3, 2006 2:59 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, he was Ty Cobb in Pittsburgh
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't mind seeing a repeat of yesterday...
by 1985kid on Sep 3, 2006 3:01 PM EDT reply actions
Dunc hit the shit out of that.
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:01 PM EDT reply actions
Hardcore your dream is halfway home baby!!!!!!
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:02 PM EDT reply actions
K's
41 thank you
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 3, 2006 3:03 PM EDT reply actions
Hardcore Legend
Maybe he used his statistical prowess to predict the multi-HR game, huh? :)
Yeah, the dreamland stat
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Howard hit #51...
To El Hombre! Horray Multi-HR games!
im calling it
by jcarro100 on Sep 3, 2006 3:05 PM EDT reply actions
Howard has two more HRs...
You've got to like the StL kid.
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Son of a B! #3 for 52.
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone that is watching the game...
Are you sure he wasn't in the dream too?
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Lafayette represent!
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 3, 2006 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 3, 2006 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if you look at the STATS....................
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Go sit down Bay
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 3, 2006 3:17 PM EDT reply actions
That was a damned good job by Reyes
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:17 PM EDT reply actions
Yikes......he better go turn some double plays..
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 3, 2006 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn, Molina the speed merchant.
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:21 PM EDT reply actions
Yadi Pujols
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 3, 2006 3:22 PM EDT reply actions
Come on Miles
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:22 PM EDT reply actions
I was thinking...
He hit a pretty good pitch though
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
64 (48/18)
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 3, 2006 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
That changeup of his is wicked
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:31 PM EDT reply actions
However, my heart went to my throat
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Man Pujols sucks
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 3, 2006 3:40 PM EDT reply actions
Didnt Snell get the scouting report?
And the worst thing is despite all this, Howard has matched Pujols today.
AP is 4 for 6
All four are homers.
He's the long lost brother of Odalis Perez
So
pujols
pujols homers...
same old same old
Hardcore Legend,
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:45 PM EDT reply actions
I have quite a mancrush
Going to the games tomorrow and Tuesday in DC...hoping for a repeat performance!
by stlmapman on Sep 3, 2006 3:46 PM EDT reply actions
PLEASE tell me Pujols..
He may need one because
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Now THAT was a Gold Glove play
by allenbrent on Sep 3, 2006 3:51 PM EDT reply actions
Damn....
Facial Hair
oh, and that's' 9 Ks.

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