Well said, lboros.  While this is awfully depressing to watch "it is what it is."  Pressure peels away the veneer and brings true character to light.  Unfortunately our Cards numerous weaknesses are being exposed for all to see.  I agree with their need to enter the fray - they need something to get them engaged in the fight.  It's ridiculious that they still have a chance - let's see what they do with it.  Whether it's hitting a batter or something else, I see that as TLR's job.  True leadership demands that his troops come to the fight ready to go and determined to win - something we haven't seen much of the past two weeks.  Houston is focused and serious - and we need to be.

Is TLR's future in question if we pull "the biggest collapse ever?"

If Card fans were polled this morning, what would be the split if queried concerning Marquis remaining in the rotation? 85-15? 90-10? 95-5? 100%?

This forum features the voices of grim realists, and rose-colored optimists, and all the shades in between. I count myself closer to the former than the latter. Being a baseball fan since '67 has taught me how many ways things can go wrong, if nothing else.

My first reality check this season came during the Great Trampling of June, when the Cards visited the South Side, then Detroit, then experienced further ignominious humiliation at the hands of the ROYALS, and so on. The ship listed then, and has never quite righted itself. At that point, I experienced the bitter deja vu of the '04 Series, and overwhelming feelings of being mismatched (outgunned?). My first sensations of "this-team-may-make-the-playoffs-but-do-I-really-want-to-go-through-this-kind-of-rout-again?" surfaced. If nothing else, the LaRussa years have made us somewhat accustomed to October baseball (Hello, Cub fans!), imbuing us with a "Hey, no big deal, bring it on" attitude. Playing these first and second rounds is no longer the end-all scenario. We expect bigger things. 100 win seasons will do that to you. But with this team, after that horrible stretch in June, I suddenly lost my great reserve of October Anticipation. It just didn't feel right. I waited for the team to prove me wrong in July. In August. In September. But, aside from a few glimmers of competence (thank you Albert and Chris) they haven't.

I still think a Cardinal team, leaping from the bench to collectively punch Oswalt (insert name of your most infamous Cardinal villain here) in the face, would have done more to fire this team up than anything else they've done.

Last night, I was hoping and praying that Duncan would've punched Marquis out there. Knock him on his rear, and show the rest of the club that they deserve better than that "I don't give a rip how I pitch" Jason Marquis. I have stood up for players that just didn't play well; shoot, I even stuck up for Mulder this year, but for crying out loud, the whole team walks into the ballpark knowing they are gonna have to push for double digits at the least, whenever JM was pitching.

I still cannot believe that he has gotten worse and worse (wanton profanity omitted for the sake of other readers).

So, our season comes down to Weaver. Hopefully we can get Blondo a lead, and hopefully he looks far better than that (wanton profanity omitted again) thing we had on the mound last night.

And to think, Redbird fans started the season booing Encarnacion and Izzy!

the 1 game playoff w/ the astros is considered a regular season game, right?  with the extended 40 man roster and not the playoff roster, thus making narveson a possibility?  just making sure b/c narveson won't be on the playoff roster, marquis or no marquis.

I still can't help but think that this team will get it done.  (of course, I didn't watch last night's game either).  We can't win 2 of 3 at home vs. Milwaukee w/ Weaver, Suppan, and Carp going?  I can't see the Astros sweeping the Braves and extending their winning streak to what, 11?  Too far fetched.  We may have to play Monday but I still think we'll get it done.  Maybe this season's driven me completely insane.

There are several ways in wich we can evaluate this 2006 team:

The apologists will point to injuries.  Honestly, how can we not give them SOME credence.  Any team that loses their 2nd or 3rd best bat, a gold-glove center-fielder, their leadoff hitter, their #2 starter, and their closer SHOULDN'T win.  

Take Oswalt, Taveras, Burke, and Lidge from the 'Stros, and you basically have no team left.  Notice that their dramatic comeback has coincided with the rebound of the team's health.  The basically got Clemens back from the DL after the All-Star break.  

From this point of view, we should be ecstatic that we even have a chance to make the playoffs.  The Cubbies have seen much the same injury trouble we have seen, and they have fallen to the worst team in the national league.  

With that being said, I still believe that TLR has to take SOME of the blame for the gross mishandling of this team.  LaDuncan had to know that Izzy was hurt earlier in the year.  Maybe if they shut him down for a month earlier, he could have come back.  AT LEAST he could have had his surgery and been ready for opening day next year.  Heck, I don't know, maybe we are all scapegoat hunting, and it is easy to villify the manager.  I'll use the Cubbies again.  Dusty Baker took a thin, aging Giants team to the playoffs time and time again, even with personalities like Jeff Kent and Barry Bonds in his clubhouse.  Now, the Cubs can't keep a healthy pitcher, Lee goes down with injury too, and somehow it is Baker's fault that the Cubs can't win with what amounts to a triple-A ballclub!?  

Look, as I see it, I very much agree with you LBoros, if, in April, we were told that we would hold a 1/2 game lead over the 'Stros, wouldn't we be satisfied with that?  I mean, most of the pundits and even us, the fans, expected us to win the division, but with a razor-thin margin of error.  

Anyhoo,  I still think that TLR is not the man for this team any longer.  We have gotten younger, and he cannot manage young players.  I hope for our sake that we don't trade away all our great young talent just to keep LaDuncan happy next year.  I can handle inconsistency from young guys.  They will learn how to win.  I am really excited about a future team with Pujols, Wainwright, Reyes, Duncan, Hancock, Narveson, and company.  We just have to be willing to endure a bump or two in the road to get there.  

Lboros, sorry for my continued rantings, but it sure does make me feel better.  Thanks for the great site!!!  

Great perspective as always, lboros.

On the subject of the rotation, if anyone is interested, I've got a diary here making the case that, if the team has a chance to clinch Sunday, it might make sense to hold Carp until Monday. No evidence that Tony is listening to me.

Per the Elias column on ESPN.com, the Cards lost something else this week:

"Minnesota's victory and Detroit's loss creates a tie for first place in the AL Central. It's the first time this season that the Twins (who've played 159 games) have been in first place. It's the latest point in a season that a team reached first place for the first time. The previous record was held by the 1964 Cardinals, who gained a share of the top spot for the first time following their 158th game."

Lboros and a few others have touched on this, but take a quick peak at the rotation and how it will play out over the remainder of this year and possibly into the playoffs...

Fri - Weaver
Sat - Suppan
Sun - Carpenter

I'm assuming we HAVE to win 2 of those or Monday won't even be an issue. Preferably, we need to win Fri and Sat and get that 1.5 game lead back heading into Sunday. Then you can save Carp for Gm 1.

If that doesn't happen, we go to

Mon - Reyes ---- the kid is solid, but our entire season resting on him? I won't feel good about that.

Tue - Marquis v Oswalt in Houston. If this happens, why even bother making the trip down there? Disgusts me to even think about it.

BUT, what if....what if Reyes and Marquis come through and we claw our way into that 1st round matchup with the Mets...then what?

Gm1 on Wed at Shea and who takes the mound to face the lefty loaded lineup? Jeff Weaver.

Ugh.

The Albert Pujols miracle jersey goes on today--I was saving it in reserve for the playoffs, but seeing the team not hang their head and die is more important.  

I thought the Giants game got rained out @ Busch. Wouldn't they come to St. Louis? Why would we go there?

Also I have been thinking really hard about this and although it might not work everytime it is something that should be considered. I think the Cardinals need an Eddie Gaedel type player to pinch-hit in front of Pujols in close game situations. Or pinch hit when we are down by 1-run in any part of the line-up during the ninth. It's a guaranteed base-runner. Then pinch-run for him when he gets on. I am writing this half-humoredly but when you sit and think about it, it kinda makes sense. There probably is some rule about it now though.

Eddie Gaedel was the St. Louis Browns player that was about 3' 7" and wore the number 1/8

Ok under what circumstances would they play Houston? I thought a tie wnet to the stros because of the season series? so why would they play?

and how do the Ginats figure into all of this?

Could you guys make it clear on both levels for me...

Please Ownership, I beg you, allow Walt the financial flexibility needed to fix this team.

with Houston...

Wouldn't it be fun (and potentially effective) if TLR lined up Weaver to start, then, a la Whitey, sent Narveson into right field so he could swap him in to face the 2-3-4-5 lefty part of the Astros lineup?

This sounds kind of nutty now, but Whitey used to do it, although I can't remember if it ever really worked...

What makes it practicable is that the Stros bat Lamb-Berkman-Scott-Huff all back to back instead of alternating them. Or at least they did that last time the teams played.

Everyone, please scroll up to see this comment if you missed it:

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Maybe it's just me
but this Cardinals team doesn't seem as good as the last couple of versions. Idunno.

by Pokey Joe on Fri Sep 29, 2006 at 06:31:38 AM PST

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That had me laughing pretty hard.  I needed that.  

if he has the "deer in the headlights" look that Osborne had in the 7th game of the '96 playoffs, please SOS the Cardinals dugout.

heres my thoughts tonight...
Dear Roger,
I know tonight is possibly your last regular season start, at least for this year. We all admire you for the great pitcher you are, and all the sharades you have done over the past 3-4 years. Who else in baseball has ever had several farewell parties. You my friend are the "KISS" of baseball. With that said I hope you just fall apart tonight in ATL, because we all know we will see you again next year around February deciding who to play for and when. Yes you may have earned the right, but not the right to escape critisim. The only thing better than you loseing tonight, would be a one game playoff where the Birds chase Oswalt and you come into relieve and we all hear how you are on short rest, and about all your great relief appearences, and the brids give you a hefty parting gift...

You may say Im a dreamer...

Truly yours

Punchinjudy

2004 and 2005 sure were fun.  All good things must come to an end.  Bummer.

2004 and 2005 sure were fun.  All good things must come to an end.  Bummer.

everybody in the NL is not very good. If we get in, who knows? This team isn't great, but it isn't horrible.(For the NL) Houston CAN'T keep this up! The Braves are no push-overs! Cincy Shmincy! Boo Brew Crew! Yeah Cards! We have stripped this team down statiscally, we know what we got, all we got left is to cheer and hope (pray) for the best. I'm going down in a blaze of glory with my team and not jumping off the wagon!

We are the Cardinals!
The Mighty Mighty Cardinals!
Everywhere we go, people want to know!
Who we are, so we tell them!
We are the Cardinals!
The Mighty Mighty Cardinals!

Mostly upbeat comments this morning from everyone. By that I mean it seems that everyone is pretty well resigned to the fact that the Cardinals are what they are...a mediocre overall team...that is in 1st PLACE with three or four games to play.  If we make it to the playoffs?...I agree with those that are saying that anything could happen as there really is not one dominate, overpowering team in the NL. If they don't make it to the playoffs, well..they pretty much are getting what they deserve. As to the future...well I for one don't think we are going to see this ownership pull a "Arte Moreno" and say publicly, for all to hear...the check book is open over the winter! I don't think we will ever see them go out and really pursue top dollar FA's to tell you the truth.  I do think we will see  more deals of the Encarnacion, Bigbie, type..and unfortunely more DFA pick up's when and if they become available.  I guess it comes down to this for me...I don't belive we have owners who LOVE the game of baseball, or have a inbred LOVE of the Cardinals and thier tradition. I think we have finally come to the same reality as many teams in Baseball. Guys like Gussie Busch and Wrigley, and the O'Malley's...are things of the past in baseball...owners who didn't know perhaps much about the in's and out's of the game...but LOVED it with all their hearts. It's a corporate world now, and I think we have to come to grips with that as our future.

Tonight is a night that I'm going to stop thinking about baseball.  I'm going to drink some beers and I'm going to watch two of my favorite bands.  I'm going to refrain from thinking about baseball.  And when I get home, I'm going to find us 1.5 games up again.  I've tried alot of things this year, so maybe the proper thing is to completely ignore the team.

Though, one of the bands is from Chicago, and are Cubs fans, seems pretty likely they're going to give us all a hard time...oh well.

I have lived in TX,IL,ID,WI,WA...and have traveled alot of places...in any given sports shop you can always find these teams but not limited to....UNC Yanks BOSOX and several mlbs teams at least have one hat if not all of them...But you will find a variety of Yanks stuff..Bosox as I said UNC....Dallas, and STL i have always found a STL hat wherever i go, and at times ones that I havent found closer to STL...I say that just to say that this orginization is within the top teams as far as market goes..IMO Ynaks would be #1 worldiwde..but cards have to be in the top 20 if not 10...

in my understandings MLB and the teams I believe share these proceeds

... check out the Eric Neel column on ESPN.com:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=neel/060929

always has been always will be. management needs to recognize that since they don't have any top tier starters coming out of the minors next year they have to spend on Schmidt or Zito.  everyone knows my preference but if they don't go out and acquire some pitching next year, we are going to be in a world of hurt.

Albert and a healthier Rolen can keep the offense at a reasonable level but the pitching has to get better.  

i think i would go with thompson, with hancock next in line to take the baton. i also -- and this is not a strategy i would normally advocate, but these are special circumstances -- might order the pitcher (whoever it is) to hit a batter early in the game. and make no bones about the intention.

Pretty sad that we're reduced to this but I was thinking the same thing yesterday. I wanted Duncan Sr to tell Marquis to plunk somebody on purpose, just to get some fight back in him. The batters opposing Marquis in particular are just not afraid of him (and why should they be?). He needs to be throwing inside, and if the pitches get close enough to count the stitches, well....maybe he can start getting the outside corner.

Mercifully, I think Marquis will be relegated to the pen from here on out, if we ever do see him wearing the Birds on the Bat again....

PS I'd suggest starting Narveson instead of Thompson, but it's a tossup either way.

and he has every intention of treating his start on Sunday vs the Astros as if it were a playoff game. Go Braves.

a big inning early?  Ease my tortured soul?