Game 134 Open Thread: September 2, 2006

weaver chacon
5-13, 6.16 6-5, 7.18
to begin with, here are carp's cumulative stats in his three years with the cardinals:
| w-l | era | w pct | ip | h | w | k | whip | h/9 | k/9 | w/9 | k/bb |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 49-16 | 3.03 | .754 | 609 | 526 | 124 | 516 | 1.051 | 7.8 | 7.6 | 1.8 | 4.2 |
carp already has nudged his way into the top 50 in several of the counting-stat categories --- he's not listed yet, because baseball ref doesn't update the pages until after each season, but you can see where he falls. for example, carp has just latched onto the tail end of the wins list --- he's tied for 49th place with willie sudhoff. and he's 34th in strikeouts, with a realistic chance to pass lindy mcdaniel, donovan osborne, and jack andujar before the season ends and reach 31st place.
but it's in the rate stats that carpenter excels. if we extend all his current averages for another 10 decisions--- an unrealistic leap, perhaps, but just go with it --- he'll be at or near the top in the following categories:
- winning percentage: carp comes in 1st at .754, nearly 50 points ahead of the incumbentleader, john tudor (.705).
- whip: carp ranks first here too, at 1.051, comfortably ahead of tudor at 1.080.
- k/9: second, behind todd stottlemyre
- hits / 9: 6th, right behind tudor
- walks /9: 6th place --- but 3d among modern (ie, post-19th century) pitchers, behind pete alexander and bob tewksbury.
- era: at 3.03, carp would rate 24th on this list, three slots behind dizzy dean and five behind bob gibson; two ahead of ol' pete alexander, four ahead of steve carlton. not a bad neighborhood to be in. if we exclude the deadball-era pitchers (ie, pre 1920) carpenter ranks 8th, behind tudor, mort cooper, max lanier, cat brecheen, gibson, bill doak, and dizzy dean.
ok, so he stacks up extremely well vs his predecessors; how has carpenter done vs his peers? using david pinto's day by day database, i checked carpenter's rank in various stat categories aggregated since 2004, his 1st year with the cards. i imposed a minimum requirement of 450 innings pitched, which condition was met by 77 pitchers. carpenter rated:
- 1st in winning pct, ahead of johan santana (.743) and zambrano (.698)
- 3d in wins, behind santana (52) and oswalt (50). randy johnson (48), kenny rogers (47), and jon garland (46) are right behind him.
- 3d in era, behind clemens (2.41) and santana (2.80). the next three behind carp are zambrano (3.11), ben sheets (3.18), and jake peavy (3.19).
- 8th in strikeouts, behind santana, johnson, zambrano, jason schmidt, peavy, pedro, and oswalt.
carp has a good chance to reach 100 wins before the end of the season --- last night's was his 98th. if it happens, he'll become the third stl pitcher to reach that milestone in 2006. i'd like to know if such a coincidence has ever happened on a big-league staff before but wouldn't know where to look.
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Carpenter...
Also, i'm going to the game tonight. I'm 8-0 this season in games i've went to (I got lucky though, 4 starts by Carpenter, 2 by Marquis, 2 Suppan). This will be my first Weaver game though, he better not break my streak.
by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Sep 2, 2006 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
Weaver
I'm 0-2 at games this season so maybe you'll have better luck. He's pitching a lot better though. With the Mets, we would have won had he IBB'd Delgado most likely
Bill James/Rob Neyer
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/cy
He was 4th a week or so ago. He'd have my vote.
I wonder if the shakiness of the Cardinals will aid his cause in the eyes of the voters? A rock in a tight race among a shaky staff wins the love of sportswriters.
Webb
I want Carp to win it again but I wouldn't mind if Webb takes it home since he went to my fav. college and is a native of my home state.
Well...
I'm all for Carpenter
It's ok...
don't forget...
Elsewhere.
He's also tops in PRC and leads all the other candidates considerably in WPA.
I'd put Carp first...
Also, Izzy fifth? Are those guys on crack?
by Scarlet the Cardinal on Sep 2, 2006 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
That predictor...
Assuming Santana would win if the vote were today, and Wagner certainly would not win (6hrs in 60 innings, WHIP higher than Carp, 5 blown saves), the predictor is 3 for its last 6. Neyer should skip the fancy formula and just write a column periodically on how he thinks the voting would go. It'd be more accurate.
or maybe revise the formula
That is also giving Carp only 5 points....
If Carp can win the ERA Title and stay within 1 or 2 victories of the leaders, I think he HAS to be the frontrunner.
How big do those 9th inning cramps/leaving them loaded in the 8th look from this weekend? He'd be tied for the most wins to go along with his ERA top billing.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2006 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps more importantly
Carp is going to continue to get the publicity going forward while Webb probably won't.
More ESPN stats
He's now the league leader in average game scores, just above 60. See the AGS column on this page (this wraps, but should be clickable):
On Carpenter's individual espn page, you can see his game scores game by game:
Another intangible for Webb
But my brain says Carp is a rock for the Cards. If he wins 3-4 more games down the stretch, he's got to be the favorite.
by thats a winner on Sep 2, 2006 11:47 AM EDT reply actions
Agreed
When the stats are as statistically similar as
100 wins
One thing to consider...
VB = Victory Bonus: A 12-point bonus awarded for leading your team to the division championship (pro-rated based on current standings).
Right now, the formula gives Wagner the full 12 points, because the Mets have pretty much locked up the division. Webb gets 2 points because the D-backs have only a distant chance at the div.
Carp gets 5 points, because the Cards are leading, but don't look like a lock yet.
If the Cards can hang on to win the division, that should vault Carp into 1st, if his performance the rest of the way is as we'd all expect.
Mort Cooper
Oh, and Chris Carpenter rules, too.
by 26thMan on Sep 2, 2006 1:16 PM EDT reply actions
Going out tonight so I'm not going to
3IP, 7Hits, 6ER, 3BB, 2K
I missed last night's
Hey, I've been thinking about doing that...
by 1985kid on Sep 2, 2006 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
it means
by dontEATnachos on Sep 2, 2006 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Re:
Remember, though, that once Fox starts doing the Saturday games, there's a national blackout from 1:00-7:00 EDT.
question
home teams
either way, you never get to choose
by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks
Thanks for the info
by 1985kid on Sep 2, 2006 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Fox
In terms of post-season play, this is from MLB.com:
National Live Blackout (Post Season): Due to Major League Baseball national exclusivities, during the MLB postseason, if you live within the following nations or territories, webcasts of all postseason games will be blacked out: United States, Canada, Guam, US Virgin Islands, South Korea and Japan.
also...
From Rotoworld
Boston only really threatened in the seventh, but Burnett was able to get out of them when Eric Hinske hit into a double play that resulted in the club's only run. Burnett threw 115 pitches, 79 for strikes, on his way to earning his seventh win. It was his second complete game of 2006 and 16th overall.
------------------------
I was mixed on this pickup/non-pickup by the Jays and Cardinals, but in retrospect, given the Oswalt signing. I wish we had picked up Burnett. I think that Zito will price himself out of our range and I would have preferred the 28 year old Burnett to Schmidt who will prolly command comparable $$$ given age and injury history. The Cardinals are going to have to step up and spend the big bucks on a pitcher if they want to win, imho.
Not commenting on the deal...
They are a shell of their former selves.
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2006 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
true, the sox were depleted
baseball prospectus actually keeps track of the quality of opposing batters that each pitcher faces. burnett's opposing hitters have an avg OPS of .778, which is 19th out of 64 starting pitchers in the american league --- ie, burnett's overall "degree of difficulty" ranks in the upper third.
among the st louis starters, only one ranks in the upper half of the league in avg OPS of opposing batters --- anthony reyes. in truth, reyes lacks the innings to qualify, but his avg OPS (.759) would rank 10th in the league if he did qualify.
marquis ranks 46th out of 74 nl pitchers (90 or more innings); carpenter ranks 49th, and suppan ranks 73d.
so if you're going to discount burnett's performance today, by the same principle you must be pretty worried about the st louis pitchers . . . . .
personally i think these things tend to even out over the course of a season. burnett did run into a weakened lineup today, but he did what he was supposed to do ---- he dominated them. give the guy credit.
you're suggesting
i'm also suggesting that it's inconsistent of you to dismiss burnett's good outing today because it came against weak competition, while lauding the outings of st louis pitchers against weak competition.
You sure took a lot of inaccuracy out of a simple
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2006 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Seeing as I said that I 'wasn't' commenting on
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2006 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Edmonds staying home
I think the writing is on the wall.
by 26thMan on Sep 2, 2006 6:27 PM EDT reply actions
What an F-ing bummer......
Well, good luck to Jimmy where ever he lands!
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Sep 2, 2006 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Skip
edmonds is being
I like the guy, but he needs to stop feeling sorry for himself.
by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
by Hardcore Legend on Sep 2, 2006 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Lineup
Chris Duncan RF
Albert Pujols 1B
Scott Rolen 3B
Scott Spiezio LF
Juan Encarnacion CF
Ronnie Belliard 2B
Yadier Molina C
Chris Carpenter P
carp's pitching two in a row....
by PGeorge @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops
There was just a good pre game interview
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 7:11 PM EDT reply actions
It's gotta be tough
by SchwabbaMoose on Sep 2, 2006 7:20 PM EDT reply actions
Hey Weaver doesn't give up a 1st inning run!!!
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 7:23 PM EDT reply actions
Dammit,squandered a good chance in the bottom half
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Weaver is dominating
I think we might want to follow
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
alrighty
Dammit Molina
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 7:49 PM EDT reply actions
Come on Miles !!
by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 7:52 PM EDT reply actions
I'm watching on MLB.TV and you must be
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm watching MLB TV too
Tom Petty's gonna get annoying by the end of the night and I usually like his songs.
Im watching on MLB gameday.
by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we can get to Chacon
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
No, safety squeeze but Enc didn't go.
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And again, I say
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:04 PM EDT reply actions
Shacon always struggles with his command..
by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 8:05 PM EDT reply actions
way to go scotty!!
by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 8:08 PM EDT reply actions
And we're not taking it!
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the strangest set of adjectives
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Somebody has to say it
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:12 PM EDT reply actions
oy...
We're letting him off the hook
Albert Pujols finally hit the ball hard. Maybe he will get on track now.
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:15 PM EDT reply actions
Im not watching on TV...
by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 8:16 PM EDT reply actions
We have chosen not to comment in order
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotcha!!
by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
ugh...
Good job Bluegrass!!!
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You know, if things get tense, you have to throw a
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I watched Weaver..
by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 8:26 PM EDT reply actions
RB, you're a left coaster?
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Top of the lineup folks!!!!!!
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:29 PM EDT reply actions
At leas someone can hit...
by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 8:32 PM EDT reply actions
wow..
by RB @ Viva El Birdos on Sep 2, 2006 8:35 PM EDT reply actions
Squatting
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:37 PM EDT reply actions
Speez take the effing walk!!!!
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:42 PM EDT reply actions
Son Of A Bitch, Ball 4!!!!!!
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:43 PM EDT reply actions
come on cards
Chris Duffy
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:52 PM EDT reply actions
I don't care how fast you are...
Observation:
Also:
Yay Yadi!
Because those idiots Rick Horton and Wayne Hagen
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Bullpen
I'm getting a little nervous
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
those aren't gentelman,
by 1985kid on Sep 2, 2006 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
hehehe
Though no one swears like our beloved Jimmy E.
I remember one time four years ago that he struck out and yelled "FUCK!!!" so loudly it came through on the TV. I laughed for the next half inning.
nice job by lil dunc
by jcarro100 on Sep 2, 2006 9:08 PM EDT reply actions
well it was only one run...
by 1985kid on Sep 2, 2006 9:09 PM EDT reply actions
Thanks, Chris!
I'm generally more of a whiskey guy...
I agree...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 2, 2006 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Weaver held it together...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 2, 2006 9:10 PM EDT reply actions
Who pinch hits for Weaver?
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:11 PM EDT reply actions
The 2nd pitch was a ball
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:13 PM EDT reply actions
Well that was ugly as hell.
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
who will come in to finish this thing up?
by 1985kid on Sep 2, 2006 9:15 PM EDT reply actions
Weaver
Looper was warming up when they cut to commercial.
oh yeah,
by 1985kid on Sep 2, 2006 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, good old Braden Loopy
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Well there goes the claim to "Baseballs...
The wave.....
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 2, 2006 9:23 PM EDT reply actions
Do I ever agree with that !!!!!!!!!!
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Dammit!!!
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:24 PM EDT reply actions
6 pitches in the same location...
by 1985kid on Sep 2, 2006 9:24 PM EDT reply actions
well I guess he got him...
by 1985kid on Sep 2, 2006 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
DP!!!
Now offense, give Braden his 9th of the season!!
Why in the HELL would you pitch out
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:27 PM EDT reply actions
honestly, I don't think so. I think Molina would
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I am so SICK and TIRED of...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 2, 2006 9:28 PM EDT reply actions
all right albert
by 1985kid on Sep 2, 2006 9:30 PM EDT reply actions
Son of a bitch
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:30 PM EDT reply actions
What the fuck are you talking about?
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Call me if you're lost.
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Way to go Soul Patch!!!!!
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:33 PM EDT reply actions
why did they intent walk carnacion...
by 1985kid on Sep 2, 2006 9:34 PM EDT reply actions
ugh...
arrrrrrrr
by jcarro100 on Sep 2, 2006 9:39 PM EDT reply actions
Is it OK to say...
by Ignatius J Reilly on Sep 2, 2006 9:39 PM EDT reply actions
This is going to be a stupid freaking loss.
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:39 PM EDT reply actions
No, this Rose new guy who was in the minors
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Vizcaino to pinch hit for Loop?
Who else was called up that is a possibility?
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
That is the worst AB I've seen all season.
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Dammit, Billy Wagner is trying to let
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:45 PM EDT reply actions
dang it
Juan should have ran home earlier on the squeeze IMO
That was a pathetic game
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:53 PM EDT reply actions
At least the Mets just beat Houston
by allenbrent on Sep 2, 2006 9:54 PM EDT reply actions
Changes In Pitching
by bpwaggener on Sep 6, 2006 7:37 PM EDT reply actions



















