Game 108 Open Thread: August 4, 2006

by lboros on Aug 4, 2006 5:41 PM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News

carpenter davis
10-5, 2.93 6-6, 5.02

much ado about the rumored waiver claim on andruw jones by an unknown team. not impossible -- but not likely either -- that the cardinals are the claimant. when peter gammons dropped jones' name into the trade-rumor mill in late june, it was thought that the braves wanted young position players back, and that the white sox might offer centerfielder brian anderson as the centerpiece of a deal. assuming that's still the type of commodity the braves would want back, the cardinals can offer chris duncan and . . . . that's about it. but if he were paired with, say, brad thompson and one of the strong-armed pitchers at double a . . . . squint real hard and you can maybe almost kinda sorta see the vague outlines of something. jones is under contract for 2007 at $13.5m, so if he did join the cardinals it might mean au revoir, jimmy edmonds. or maybe they'd try to dump en'cion's salary in the off-season . . . . . .

to repeat: this is a lonnnngshot. jones probably isn't coming to st louis. but just on the off-chance . . . . if jocketty were somehow able to get him without losing wainwright or reyes, a lot of us know-it-all critics would stop carping about front-office inaction and resume singing walter's praises. at least, this know-it-all would.

for tonight's opposing starter, doug davis, it's all about the walks. in his one good month (june) he issued 2 free passes a game; in his three lousy months he walked at least 4.5 men per 9. he no-decisioned the cardinals long, long ago, in the 3d game ever played at the new stadium. . . .

jaime garcia nominally threw a complete game loss vs tampa last night -- 6 innings in a rain-shortened road loss. a good outing, despite the L - 6 hits, 1 walk, 4 ks, and 2 runs, both earned. garcia has steadied himself after a rough transition to high-a ball; still probably has 5 or 6 starts left on the schedule. if he pitches consistently well in them, you never know but what he might debut at double a next april.

at the quad, mark hamilton hit his first homer in a 6-4 loss. his college teammate nate southard also homered --- a walkoff to give state college a 3-2 extra-inning victory over williamsport.

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Well...

My last in-person game of the Cards' season tonight.

Can it please be as good as the first one and not as bad as the last four?

by whopperman on Aug 4, 2006 5:47 PM EDT reply actions

Wouldn't Duncan...

have to pass thru waivers to get dealt, and isn't that an impossibility given his promise and contract? Am I not understanding the process?

by guayzimi on Aug 4, 2006 5:54 PM EDT reply actions

I posted this in the other thread....

...however, he could have already passed through waivers. Most MLB teams put up to 85% of their roster on waivers at one point or not in the season, so that a) they can gauge interest and b) so they can use them in wire deals if need be.

Wainwright, Duncan, Reyes, Thompson, Pujols, Rolen, Edmonds, Yadi, Carp, basically anyone and everyone could have passed through waivers by this point. We don't know. Manny Ramirez and Ken Griffey Jr are put on waivers every season.

Once a player is claimed, the Braves can then negotiate with them for a deal to trade the player. If nothing happens, then they pull them back off of waivers and they are done for the year as far as trading that player.

I would imagine, if this were the Cardinals in the running, a package of Reyes or Wainwright (former Brave and Georgia native), Duncan and some minor league talent could land Jones. Duncan would give them another masher in the outfield and Reyes would at the very least be better than Sosa was as the #5.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Also, for those thinking it could be the White Sox

or another AL team, consider this:

*Only one team ultimately gets awarded a waiver claim, no matter how many submit claims. Claims are awarded based upon the following criteria:

National League teams get first rights over National League players and American League teams get the first shot at American League players.
For teams in the same league, the club with the worst record is awarded the claim.

Once a claim is awarded, the two teams' general managers have a discussion and sort through the grounds for the claim: Was it a claim to make a deal or to block a deal? The GMs may have already spoken about the potential for a trade before the player cleared waivers and quite possibly even before he was placed on waivers. *

These teams have better records than the Cardinals:

Minnesota Twins
Chicago White Sox
New York Mets
Boston Red Sox
New York Yankees
Detroit Tigers

Also, since NL gets first pick, none of these teams would get a claim in before the Cardinals either:

Los Angeles Angels
Oakland Athletics
Toronto Blue Jays

So, assuming Walt was completely disinterested in Andruw Jones, the Cardinals claim would be choosen before ANY of those teams on that list.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions

The Cubs...

might take him with an eye on next year... Also, the Astros are starved for runs and they pick before us, as do the Reds with go-for-broke Krivsky at the helm. And the Dodgers have Kenny Lofton starting in center and don't appear to be giving up...

Chance of Cards picking up Jones: 0%

by guayzimi on Aug 4, 2006 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Now I sense you are being glib...

...I don't presume to say that the Cardinals will get Andruw Jones or that they are the team that has laid in the claim.

However, to say that they have 0 chance isn't genuine.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions

See my post below...

I'm quite magnanimous; and in addition I hope I eat my words...

by guayzimi on Aug 4, 2006 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah but...

there's an order for which players can be selected based on their record. The Braves are in the middle of the pack somewhere. The teams before them can put in a waiver claim and get them by just picking up their salary (unless they're pulled back).

My point is that even though we don't know who was put on waivers and who was claimed, we can safely say that there is zero chance young, promising players making the minimum salary will not be selected by the teams with worse records than Braves. They would therefore not be available in a trade for Jones. Guys like Ramirez and Griffey pass through b/c no one wants their contracts even though they are good players.

by guayzimi on Aug 4, 2006 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions

No...

...you are assuming that they haven't ALREADY passed through. Also, take into consideration that teams don't want to start claiming other teams young, cheap talent or else they will face the wrath of having their deals blocked by other teams too. There is often a great deal of 'handshake' agreements between teams when it comes to waiver stuff.

However, with the Astros being behind us, I can imagine them blocking us.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Perhaps you're right...

and somebody below mentioned the possiblity of a PTBNL with Duncan...

Can anyone find an example of a blue-chip, Reyes/Wainwright-type prospect getting past 5-10 teams on the waiver wire at any point in July or August? I don't know how to find that information out, but I can't remember a deal like that happening... It's always a Williams-Lankford type deal at this point.

by guayzimi on Aug 4, 2006 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions

see my example

below --- -the padres dealt oliver perez to the pirates in 2003 as part of the brian giles deal.

at the time perez was a 2d-year player who had struck out more than a hitter per inning; 3.50 era in his rookie year, was struggling as a sophomore (5.00 era) but still had great peripherals. he was a cheap left-handed pitcher with a killer arm --- and he got through.

you're right, it is rare --- but there are examples.

by lboros on Aug 4, 2006 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Perez

The only reason the Pirates were able to get him was that they were in last place (or close to last) so they got 1st claim on him. Otherwise he wouldn't have been traded. That isn't a great example.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 4, 2006 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions

It's an example...

of a blue chipper going in August, but b/c both the Pirates and Pads were close to the bottom of the NL throughout the summer of '03, and since we don't know when they put the three players (Bay, Perez, and Giles) on waivers, we can't know which other teams had a crack at them.

If they had been cooking up that trade for awhile they could have worked it so that each team would have first crack the other's player... Does the order change daily with the standings or is it locked in at some date and stay that way all year?

by guayzimi on Aug 4, 2006 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Not blue chip, but

*The one true August blockbuster in the past five years came in 2003, when San Diego acquired Brian Giles from Pittsburgh for Oliver Perez and Jason Bay. *

At the time, that is on par with the level of talent St. Louis would be giving up (as those two were believed at the time), though Giles isn't even close to Jones level.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Here

Little more explanation of waivers.

Lets say we got Jones and sent Duncan and some minor players.

Another team can claim Duncan so they Braves can't get him till the end of the season. But a team has to be worst than Braves to do it.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 4, 2006 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions

No

You can't trade a current MLB player as a plyer-to-be-named later.

Of course they could just "give" us Andruw and we could just "give" them duncan after the season (for future considerations, or $1, or something) but that would require a huge leap of faith on ATL's part.

by SleepyCA on Aug 4, 2006 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions

ok

so you demote duncan to AAA, then he becomes the PTBNL.

i wouldnt get too worked up about it. the braves were interested in crisp + prospects because crisp would play CF in place of jones right NOW. duncan and whatever else we come up with wouldnt be able to place CF now. and hypothetically if we did come up with something that interested the braves, i cant see duncan being a deal breaker.

by dmb60614 on Aug 4, 2006 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions

i know i don't

understand the process . . . . perhaps you are right. but since the claimed player has to go directly onto the 40-man roster, a lot of teams will pass on guys who --- like duncan --- might not be universally considered to be valuable prospects.

i did a quick scan of past trades; only went back to 2003 and found a couple examples. the cards included mike crudale in a post-waiver trade; he was a 2d-year player at that time with a career era of about 2.10 in ~60 innings. that same year the padres dealt oliver perez post-waiver; also a 2d-year player with loads of promise.

so it has happened in the past; not frequently, but there are some examples out there

by lboros on Aug 4, 2006 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions

i am not sure but

i think you can get around that by having duncan be a PTBNL.

by dmb60614 on Aug 4, 2006 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Tonight.

They're going to win. I can feel it. It might not snap them out of anything, but I'm calling it now. Cards 7-3.

by matt reeder on Aug 4, 2006 6:11 PM EDT reply actions

Has anyone noticed?

that Fernando Tatis is back in the bigs and starting for the Orioles tonight in RF against Randy Johnson?

by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 4, 2006 6:17 PM EDT reply actions

oh fernando

and he took RJ deep to tie the score at 3

Don't give up. Don't ever give up. After all, GOD is a Cardinal Fan too.

by gdm426 on Aug 4, 2006 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe

They should do another seat cushion night at Busch III. It worked last time.

by BigdJC on Aug 4, 2006 6:36 PM EDT reply actions

If we don't win tonight.........

it could be another long weekend. You have to give the Brew Crew the pitching matchup edges for Saturday and Sunday.

Sat: Sheets (pitched well in his return last Sunday) vs Reyes (struggling)

Sun: Capuano vs Suppan

by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 4, 2006 6:42 PM EDT reply actions

and in the next series

the reds will hold the pitching-pairing advantages as well.

it'll only get worse come october, if the cards are still playing . . . .

by lboros on Aug 4, 2006 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions

In Cincy.....

we will get:

M Ramirez
T Milton
W Harang
Th Arroyo

Cards throw:

M Weaver
T Marquis
W Carpenter
Th Reyes

Cards appear to be in big trouble if they don't take two of the first three. Arroyo has had two consecutive "less than spectacular" starts, but I'd give him a significant edge over Reyes, and an even bigger one if Reyes struggles tomorrow night.

by stanchar @ Viva El Birdos on Aug 4, 2006 6:52 PM EDT reply actions

we can only hope...

by some miracle that Weaver wins and then we'll see the good post-victory Marquis. Then Carp will go. Bottom line if Weaver wins we will likely win the 1st 3 games. If not, then it will be hard no to get swept.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 4, 2006 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions

we're going to see

a lot of homers in Tuesday's game - Marquis vs. Milton! that should be fun

The Cardinal Curmudgeon

by lawman3842 on Aug 4, 2006 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, but Milton...

...threw a f***ing shutout against the Cardinals earlier this year.

by whopperman on Aug 5, 2006 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Wrong

We will not be facing Arroyo, he pitches sunday night for the Reds, so he will miss the first series. We will face Kyle Lohse or whomever their 5th man is.

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 4, 2006 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions

if i were the reds

i'd hold arroyo back a day so he could pitch vs the cardinals twice.

by lboros on Aug 4, 2006 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions

It would be...

gross incompetence on Narron's part to go with Lohse instead of moving Arroyo back. I'm sure we'll see the latter twice...

by guayzimi on Aug 4, 2006 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Technically...

... Nate Southard's walk-off HR for State College last night was a run-off. According to the game log, it was an inside the parker.

There's something you don't hear about every day. An inside the park homerun to win in extra innings...

by punditmoi on Aug 4, 2006 7:19 PM EDT reply actions

Hilarious

don't know if any pointed this gem out, but our homeboy fritz is hurting my sides... :D

http://www.insidestl.com/stlsports/dailyredbird.php?thedate=2006-08-04

Classic.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Aug 4, 2006 7:33 PM EDT reply actions

Jones

I didn't read all the stuff above didn't have time. So if this was addressed I am sorry.

As I see it Houston did not claim him. Reason is they would not want to get stuck with his contract if the Braves just decided to let him go. The Astros have just as big an offseason coming up as the Cardinals do with regards to pitching.

Chicago isn't smart enough to claim him. Nor would they want to be saddled with his contract.

Cincy minor concern. Jones does not help them where they need it most-pitching.

Los Angeles is is the only National League danger IMHO. There for it is between them and STL if you really look at it. I still doubt the Cardinals get him, but it would go a long way in correcting some ill feelings that have been percilating this summer in the Cardinal Nation. I guess we will know sometime in the next 24 hours.

by TexasCard on Aug 4, 2006 7:41 PM EDT reply actions

Oh one more thing

Maybe all the losing of late was to get low enough to help on the waiver wire, lol.

by TexasCard on Aug 4, 2006 7:42 PM EDT reply actions

IMHO

I wish we sould keep Dunc, and lose JENC, think I'd be satisfied with CD, JED, and Andruw in the outfield.........maybe every ball that gets past Albert wouldn't be an automatic double..........

by fuegophil on Aug 4, 2006 7:49 PM EDT reply actions

you and me both

get rid of Juan asap.

by Elle on Aug 4, 2006 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Lineups

per yahoo:

Cards
SS Eck
LF Duncan
1B Pujols
3B Rolen
RF Juan Enc
CF JEd
2B Belliard
C Molina
P Carp

Brew Crew
CF B. Clark
2B Graffanino
1B Fielder
LF Mench
SS B. Hall
RF Jenkins
3B D. Bell
C D. Miller
P Davis

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 4, 2006 7:59 PM EDT reply actions

<crickets>

...Nothing awful has happened yet!!

It's better to have something to remember than nothing to regret.

by Squeaky on Aug 4, 2006 8:24 PM EDT reply actions

Well,

Not sure why Scotty didn't go to third on Edmonds' fly-out...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Aug 4, 2006 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions

We can't even...

do the fundamentals right.

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 4, 2006 8:33 PM EDT reply actions

Keep an eye on...

Randy Roth of the High A club in Palm Beach. Hit over 300 in rookie ball, over 300 at quad cities, and is hitting 400 right now in 6 games at Palm Beach. Best part....he's a LF :P

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 4, 2006 8:37 PM EDT reply actions

umm too bad...

he is 24 years old. He's basically the next Terry Evans.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 4, 2006 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Game over

This team is pathetic. They would probably get beat by Memphis.

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 4, 2006 8:41 PM EDT reply actions

Nope.

You're assuming the Cards have an actual AAA team. It's more like a Frontier League team playing a AAA schedule.

by whopperman on Aug 5, 2006 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Wow

Anyone else feel like it is gonna be eight.

R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Aug 4, 2006 8:41 PM EDT reply actions

Here we go again

n/t

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Aug 4, 2006 8:41 PM EDT reply actions

man, can we catch a break?

Jeez. At least my 7-3 prediction is still in order.

by matt reeder on Aug 4, 2006 8:42 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah, but...

... 7-3 in whose favor?

by punditmoi on Aug 4, 2006 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess it's contagious

Even Carp is losing his concentration now...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Aug 4, 2006 8:43 PM EDT reply actions

Gawd this is sad

Can't believe I'm still watching...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Aug 4, 2006 8:54 PM EDT reply actions

I'm still here...

I'm watching too. I'd probably watch them even if they lost 20 in a row. They are still my cardinals

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Aug 4, 2006 9:07 PM EDT reply actions

I'm here too

I'm listening to the game... maybe tonight's the night...

by Elle on Aug 4, 2006 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions

wainwright

well if al doesnt want wainwright in the rotation, than it must be the right thing to do

by truemun12 on Aug 4, 2006 9:09 PM EDT reply actions

Is there a team in MLB

that is less clutch than the Cards right now??

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2006 9:16 PM EDT reply actions

nice

excellent job by Yadi

by Elle on Aug 4, 2006 9:20 PM EDT reply actions

Nice AB Yadi

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2006 9:20 PM EDT reply actions

Belliard looks like he ....

....eats more Lucky Dogs than me. What a lard ass.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 4, 2006 9:20 PM EDT reply actions

I don't know how it looks live

but I'm watching ESPN GameCast and wondering why Doug Davis has a happy trail on his chin...

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2006 9:22 PM EDT reply actions

Something to do with the...

...swimsuit he wears.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 4, 2006 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Are we playing like...real baseball here?

Is this possible?

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 9:26 PM EDT reply actions

Glad the bottom of the order came through

with some walks just then....still lacking in the clutch department

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2006 9:27 PM EDT reply actions

Get back in it

and give up another run.

This makes me tired.

by Intheway on Aug 4, 2006 9:31 PM EDT reply actions

And the hits just keep coming

Carp hit on the pitching hand with a batted ball...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Aug 4, 2006 9:33 PM EDT reply actions

Seems ok

struck out jenkins.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions

way to hustle Juan

Nice to have a wacky groundball fall our way for once. Now maybe the baseball gods will see fit to grant Edmonds a hit in exchange for crushing the ball his first two times at the plate.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 4, 2006 9:44 PM EDT reply actions

well then.

We wanted Tony to shake things up, right? I guess pulling the ace after 65 pitches is doing that.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 4, 2006 9:52 PM EDT reply actions

This is just wow...

...I'm utterly speechless.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions

In Tony's defense...

haha just kidding, I got nothing.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 4, 2006 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions

That worked out well

Atta boy Speezer...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Aug 4, 2006 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions

I know Speez didn't get it done...

...but would you have let Carpenter bat in what was pretty obviously going to be the most important AB of the game?

If I was Yost, I would have just intentionally walked Molina to force La Russa's hand there. He either intentionally strands the bases loaded or he yanks the best pitcher...either way you win.

by whopperman on Aug 5, 2006 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Triple post editorializing

Those Hardees breakfast commercials are a little insulting. I don't see H+R Block running a series of "Math is hard, right, ladies?" ads any time soon.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 4, 2006 9:54 PM EDT reply actions

I'm not sure if I've seen those

by Elle on Aug 4, 2006 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions

In them

Generic Unshaved Bachelor Between the Ages of 25-32 is in a harshly lit, spartanly decorated kitchen, doing something stupid vaguely related to making breakfast. The most recent one features our dull-eyed hero crushing eggs and dropping them, shell and all, into a mixing bowl.

Ironically Detached Narrator states: making breakfast is harder than it looks. Without us, some guys would starve.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 4, 2006 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions

You have a point

I mean, how damn hard is it to scramble eggs?

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Aug 4, 2006 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions

I'll have to agree

I know elementary schoolers capable of properly cracking and scrambling eggs.

by Elle on Aug 4, 2006 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions

BAH

7 hits, 6 innings, on 65 pitches??? How is that possible?

And why did we pull a pitcher who can THROW A COMPLETE GAME for Mr. Spiezio???????

by SirVLCIV on Aug 4, 2006 9:59 PM EDT reply actions

I'm betting...

it's because of that hit on the hand he took. It could have started to swell when he came off the field and the braintrust wanted to avoid a serious injury.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Aug 4, 2006 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Spiezio

I thought it was justifiable, if only because rallies have been nearly impossible to come by lately. Spiezio's been good off the bench, and in theory, at least, we've got the bullpen to get us through three innings if we can take a lead on a hit by Spiezio there.

It didn't work, but I've seen many worse decisions.

by levistahl on Aug 4, 2006 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Ah,

hit on the hand? Yeah, pull him.

by SirVLCIV on Aug 4, 2006 10:00 PM EDT reply actions

this is a real game

couple nice rbi's tonight for jenc, k's from wainright when needed, toughing out an extra inning from carp after getting hit on the arm, good ab's from molina and belliard too. Let's go get the extra runs.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Aug 4, 2006 10:08 PM EDT reply actions

Anybody else notice.

that Juan seems to be hustling a bit more tonight? He's kept two hits toward the line to singles instead of the usual double, and on one of them kept a runner from scoring from first.

Maybe....?

by ArkansasTravs on Aug 4, 2006 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions

i know

I wonder if someone called him out on it or if he just decided to make this the one game where he hustles

by Elle on Aug 4, 2006 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Okay

I'm predicting a HR from Albert right here...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Aug 4, 2006 10:10 PM EDT reply actions

how about one from scotty?

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Aug 4, 2006 10:12 PM EDT reply actions

Weak, weak, weak...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Aug 4, 2006 10:14 PM EDT reply actions

they made the play!!

go get'em.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Aug 4, 2006 10:24 PM EDT reply actions

Good to see

n/t

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Aug 4, 2006 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Stay in it Adam

missed the 3-1 pitch, and now a free pass on a shoe top HBP. Just get the 3rd out here.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Aug 4, 2006 10:28 PM EDT reply actions

Damn

Al sure is shilling for LaDuncan tonight about Wainwright staying in the bullpen...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Aug 4, 2006 10:28 PM EDT reply actions

Can you imagine tonight if Wainwright weren't...

...coming in to a game until Monday? Wainwright is the glue that holds this bullpen together.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions

that's it

good tough inning for the best middle inning reliever in the league!

Now let's score.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Aug 4, 2006 10:30 PM EDT reply actions

Maybe

this is finally the moment that will turn things around...

by klcard on Aug 4, 2006 10:32 PM EDT reply actions

nice stroke jimmie

good time for bleeiard to show us an xbh. let's do it.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Aug 4, 2006 10:39 PM EDT reply actions

Hey Ronnie...

want to win over the fans? Jack one right now...

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions

Also

It looks like Utley's streak is over at 35

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2006 10:42 PM EDT reply actions

Good

I am sick of hearing about it........

by fuegophil on Aug 4, 2006 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions

So the Cardinals have had

three doubles tonight, and only once has one of them scored.

I really don't know if there has been a worse situational hitting team since the Cubs of 2004.

by ryanisforever on Aug 4, 2006 10:45 PM EDT reply actions

Once again...

Cards don't come through in the clutch...

Anybody know STL's RISP BA since the break? It's gotta be pretty low...

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2006 10:46 PM EDT reply actions

Belliard...

Seems to be a waste so far. He fits in with the rest of the team.

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Aug 4, 2006 10:47 PM EDT reply actions

i hate to judge early

but he seems like Juan, except at second. Not really an improvement so far, but I'm open to changing my opinion in the future.

by Elle on Aug 4, 2006 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Well Albert....

...if someone gets on, you'll get your chance to be the hero.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 10:48 PM EDT reply actions

This is assuming

the Brewers don't score any off of Izzy in the 9th...

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2006 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions

There is a runner on...

...Izzy goes into shut down mode with runners on.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Why.....

Did he bring in Miles??

by fuegophil on Aug 4, 2006 10:52 PM EDT reply actions

So that the pitcher wasn't leading off next inning

That's why. If we tie it in the 9th and didn't do the double switch, Izzy can't pitch in the 10th.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions

the way that at-bat went

Izzy should've hit for himself.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 4, 2006 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Alright, Albert...

...no more fooling around. It's time to break out of this 100 AB power drain. They'll get on for you. Settle down, hunch down a bit more and don't lift up on the swing.

THUMBS UP, LET'S DO THIS!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 10:54 PM EDT reply actions

Nevermind...

...Duncan swung at balls 3 and 4.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Nicely done Miles!!

you suck

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2006 10:56 PM EDT reply actions

I am so sick of this shit

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2006 10:59 PM EDT reply actions

I'm about as happy

as I can be after an eighth loss in a row. Well-played game.

ps Junior Spivey homered tonight, for the second time in three games. Just sayin'.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 4, 2006 11:00 PM EDT reply actions

tough loss

at least they stayed in the game.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Aug 4, 2006 11:01 PM EDT reply actions

ouch and that is eight in a row

I am actually headed to STL tomorrow for the first time in 6 years for a game (moved away to Boston and DC). Guess they are due for a win, but this team is terrible right now.

by riescher on Aug 4, 2006 11:01 PM EDT reply actions

Adding insult to injury, apparently...

...the Brewers are the team that claimed Andruw Jones.

So, when we get swept this weekend, we'll be in 2nd place, 5 games up on Brewers. When we get swept by Cincy, we could be in 3rd by next weekend.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 11:01 PM EDT reply actions

Why wouldn't...

the Cubs have claimed him... They've got more revenue than the Brewers. I feel for Cubs fans...

by guayzimi on Aug 4, 2006 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Unless they want to give up young players...

..why would the Cubs put a bid in?

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions

They're down...

but they have the potential to win the division next year... Lee, Ramirez, Jones, and Jones would be a pretty good middle, plus Z and Prior, and their overpriced but solid bullpen... A one year commitment to A Jones for big money is better than anything they'll get on the open market...

by guayzimi on Aug 4, 2006 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Are you kidding me?

Prior belongs in the loony bin and won't win 10 more games in his career. Aram will be long gone by next year. Woods will be the closer until he falls apart in mid-April. DLee will never hit his 2005 numbers again.

Finally, Cubs spend money--not a chance. The drunks will fill the hallowed grounds of Wrigley regardless of the product, so no need to spend $$$.

In your favor, though, is the fact that the NL Central is pathetic. I expect the Cards to be worse next year, but expect the Pirates, Reds and Brewers to be marginally better.

I see the Cubs, especially if the Toothpick is managing, in last place next year.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Aug 5, 2006 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah...

on second thought you're probably right...

by guayzimi on Aug 5, 2006 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions

Link

Can you get a link about the whole Brewers are the one that claimed him? I can't find any kind of info about this.

by DimitroffVodka on Aug 5, 2006 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions

It's my fault.

Blame the new guy. I said to my dad right before the game tonight, I think this is their night. I cant explain it, I just feel it. We will win tonight. Sorry everyone. I jinxed us.

Hope Carp is ok. No, I PRAY CARP is OK.

Don't give up. Don't ever give up. After all, GOD is a Cardinal Fan too.

by gdm426 on Aug 4, 2006 11:01 PM EDT reply actions

Bernie says Pujols isn't healthy....

*As usual, the ballclub is keeping medical secrets.

But Pujols is hurting. The elbow is a problem.

He ain't close to being the real Pujols.

--B*

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 11:05 PM EDT reply actions

I'm gonna have to disagree with Bernie Mak here

maybe because of his prickery re: "Surly" Albert, but really, would the Cardinals risk Albert Pujols? I don't think so.

by DanUpBaby on Aug 4, 2006 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions

i felt they rushed him

from the oblique during the last disgusting skid. but that seemed to turn out fine. Pujols will battle thru it

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Aug 4, 2006 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions

link?

by chuckb on Aug 4, 2006 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions

there were some upsides though

like risky baserunning, good at-bats by more than one Cardinal, Enc hustling, and multiple attacks (even though they weren't totally successful).. That's a start, right?

by Elle on Aug 4, 2006 11:07 PM EDT reply actions

Wow

Did I read 17 LOB correctly? Sometimes I'm glad that I'm rarely ever able to see Cardinals games. . .

by aet15 on Aug 4, 2006 11:15 PM EDT reply actions

No.

It was 8 in this game.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Cards website -

The Cardinals left 17 runners on base in dropping their eighth consecutive game, matching a season high.

by aet15 on Aug 5, 2006 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions

That would imply that....

...if the Cardinals score 3 runs on 8 hits, they would had to have had something like 12 walks in the game, to get enough baserunners to leave...correct?

Check the boxscore:
Team LOB: 8.

I guess EVERYONE in the Cardinals organization is sucking hard right now.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 5, 2006 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions

Oh, I see what they did...

...they took how many each player left on and added them up. I guess you could look at it that way.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 5, 2006 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions

Ah

That made it sound a lot worse than it was. That's very unlike the Card's site.

by aet15 on Aug 5, 2006 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, I'm not sure on the actual scoring....

...however only 8 real live Cardinals players stood on base during the entire span of the game and were not hit in to score the run. Correct?

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 5, 2006 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions

Carpenter's hand is swollen...

...get the last rafts if you can. This is indeed a...sinking...ship.

Curse you Shea for putting that fantastically morbid saying in my head!

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2006 11:24 PM EDT reply actions

fuck that

i don't give a flying fuck if this ship is sinking, i'm gonna rock this shit till i drown. and you all are too. you wouldn't be on this site if you weren't.

by sjoshi on Aug 5, 2006 5:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Sure

but that doesn't change the fact THAT THIS IS A SINKING SHIP!

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Aug 5, 2006 6:29 AM EDT up reply actions

The end of TLR perhaps?

The sun don't shine on the same dog's ass all the time. - Catfish Hunter

by klcard on Aug 4, 2006 11:36 PM EDT reply actions

the infamous

bernie is saying tlr is more worried about carp then loss #8...yikes.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Aug 4, 2006 11:40 PM EDT reply actions

Kevin Hench from Fox Sports

wrote the following in his postseason predictions today:

"St. Louis Cardinals -- NL Central Champs
The Cardinals have spent this season going through the ho-hum formality of winning yet another NL Central crown. But a six-game losing streak and getting swept in a four-game series by the Cubs doesn't exactly bode well for the Cards' title prospects.

Still, with Mark Mulder getting closer to a return and much more talent than their pursuers, the Cards won't be caught."

Kevin is way more optimistic than I am. Has he watched us play lately?

by deanj on Aug 5, 2006 1:03 AM EDT reply actions

My honest prediction.

I do not see any way this club finishes above .500 . We have to go 23-31 to finish at 81-81. I don't see how this club wins another 23 games this year. It might be best if it didn't because then we might actually bring in some talent this offseason. Doubtful but maybe.

by deanj on Aug 5, 2006 1:07 AM EDT reply actions

You don't think

they can win another 23 games?

by ryanisforever on Aug 5, 2006 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Two totally different losing streaks.

The first bad run came against teams that were clearly better than the Cards. This streak is against inferior teams. This Cardinal club looks beaten down and I don't see it getting up. Losing can be a mentality and it seems to be the state of mind of this club. I just can't foresee too many more wins.

by deanj on Aug 5, 2006 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions

If

he's anything like his buddy Simmons he doesn't watch the NL and just checks the boxscores from time to time.

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Aug 5, 2006 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions

note

that comment is in the wrong spot and I havent even been drinking. I'm an idiot.

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Aug 5, 2006 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Two 8 game losing streaks....

The last time the Cardinals had two losing streaks of eight or more games was in 1983, when they dropped eight in a row twice.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 5, 2006 1:25 AM EDT reply actions

Even when the Cards lose...

one can generally count on following another Lidge meltdown...

by guayzimi on Aug 5, 2006 1:29 AM EDT reply actions

Well...

I didn't leave tonight's game feeling like I'd wasted my money and my time. Which is at least better.

It sure would be nice if this team could win sometime. It ain't Baseball Heaven if the team wearing white on the field sucks.

by whopperman on Aug 5, 2006 1:56 AM EDT reply actions

If only Jim Mora was the Cardinals Manager

Then we could here him say:

"Playoffs? You talking about playoffs? This team can't even win a game and you're talking about playoffs?"

by cards19 on Aug 5, 2006 2:10 AM EDT reply actions

Reminds me

of the A.I. rant a few years back.

R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Aug 6, 2006 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Alright! Enough of this goddamn negativity!

We're winning tomorrow night. You know why? Cause this team isn't nearly this bad. I know that it seems we are near bottom and have yet to hit, but this team is actually pretty talented, if they play like they want to win. What makes me believe they 'want to win'? Cause the guys you don't expect to act like that, are.

Juan 'lazy ass' Encarnacion beat out a freaking infield single. That's all I needed to know we were on the comeback trail. If a guy like Juan, who seemingly has played his entire career for a paycheck bouncing from town to town will bust his ass getting to first during an 8 game losing streak, I'm sold.

Scott Rolen, the clubhouse leader, busted his ass turning a stand up double into a nailbiting triple. That's it, we've got 2 converts.

Add those two guys to players like Wainwright, Sosa and Izzy who seem unphased by this streak and are still playing well and we're starting to get on a roll here.

Above all of this, we've got 'The Kid'. What says 'team player' more than a pitcher who despite knowing it is against his pitching style and in his best interest, will listen to his pitching coach and throw a pitch that is almost physically impossible for him to pitch and sticks to the 'gameplan' seemingly every start?

So, here's how I figure. Reyes will pitch 6 innings tomorrow, give up 2 runs. Pujols will get walked, Rolen will hit a double midway through the game to score Pujols. Encarnacion rips a triple into the corner and scores Rolen from second. Edmonds hits a sac fly and we go up 3-2. Sosa comes in the 7th, gets us 6 outs (including the 8th) and Izzy shuts the door in the 9th.

THAT would be a Cardinals win I could be proud of.

Now, let's make it happen.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 5, 2006 2:19 AM EDT reply actions