the goodbye look
by lboros on Aug 3, 2006 8:46 AM EDT
in St. Louis Cardinals News
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Printi saw the cardinals in person a mere week ago and they looked sharp. they toughed out a 1-0 win on the road vs a contending team -- rolen made a game-saving play with the glove -- and the next day the B-team wore down the rockies and the cardinals won 6-1. when they game ended they came charging off the field, looking like they owned it; i even e-mailed a friend of mine, "i'm encouraged; they have got 'the look.'"
wha' happen?
could it be something as simple as the heat? on the first weekend of the year, recall, they went up to a frigid wrigley field and got swept, and afterward a few guys admitted the freezing temps had taken off the edge; they just didn't feel like playing in that environment. maybe now they don't feel like playing because of the swelter? i'm grasping at straws here; but then, the team seems to be made of straw right about now.
i've seen all i need to of weaver; the experiment failed. he was worth a look, but these early blowouts sap morale, and the cards appear to have reached the limits of theirs. weaver's next turn comes monday in cincinnati, the first game of an important series; the cardinals simply can't afford to send him out there.
common sense dictates that his slot should go to wainwright, but it remains la russa's policy to run other, less competent pitchers out there. fine; he's the manager, it's his call. next best thing might be to move sosa into the rotation; tony's comments in matt leach's pregame notes suggest that they're already inclined to do that: "I think he's proven he could start. It probably has to do with need."
there is need.
other options: the cards could call up brad thompson or tankersley for a start; they could put hancock in there and call up falkenborg for the bullpen. any of those options beats weaver, imho; give him his release and move on.
mulder's slated to make his first rehab start sunday, august 6, for quad cities; his second would fall on friday, august 11, which would make him next available on wednesday, august 16. the cardinals will be playing the reds at home that night; if the rotation continues to stink and mulder's first two rehab starts are successful, i wouldn't be shocked to see mark activated for that game, which falls two weeks from tonight. indeed, joe strauss intimates that's plan A -- and that the odd man out may be anthony reyes, who has a lower era, lower whip, and higher k/w than any of the other 7 starting pitchers the cards have employed this year except carpenter . . . .
. . . . . can't trust those rookies.
how likely is it that mulder can come back and pitch effectively again this season? i made a quick survey of recent playoff teams, looking for an analog -- not a systematic search, just fishing around --- and couldn't find one. kevin brown returned from back and hand injuries to pitch (badly) for the yanks in the 2004 postseason; josh beckett overcame 7 weeks' idlement from pitching-hand blisters in 2003 to win the series mvp. in our own little world, woody williams returned from a long DL stint to pitch well in 2002, and john tudor did likewise in 1987 . . . . but none of these guys had a shoulder injury. so i can't find a hopeful precedent, but my purview is pitifully small; if anybody knows of a case where a pitcher sat for 2 months with a shoulder injury but came back and was effective in that same year, post a comment. i'd like to know how wishful it is to think that mulder might still bail the cardinals out of this mess.
a sign of life from larry bigbie --- he hit a homer, his first at any level so far in 2006. mike parisi pitched 6.1 effective innings for the win, his 7th. mitchell boggs was effective last night too, winning his 9th game for palm beach. he now ranks 6th in that talent-rich league in strikeouts and 15th in era.
i'm out of pocket all day, not back until right before game time; if i don't get a game thread up before 1st pitch, just carry on here. marquis vs cole hamels is the matchup.
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Streakiest Cardinal team in a long time...
I agree with your earlier sentiments, that our margin for error in games is gone. But what is behind this incredible, and very un-LaRussa-like, lack of consistency? It'd be interesting to chart some possible related factors, like BABIP against our pitchers, or two-seam fastballs thrown, along these graphs and look for causality.
I'm sure Tony won't let
Whatever those are...
I was at the game last night
Not only did Weaver blow up early and quickly but I'm not sure he cared...or at least he was so dejected that he didn't know what to do. He got (kinda) booed of the field and he just seemed to meander to the dugout head down...dejected.
Tyler Johnson came and put out Utley and Howard quickly, rather impressively.
Belliard looked silly in his second, IIRC, at bat against Myers. I'll give Myers credit, he was sharp last night and the strike zone seemed conducive to pitchers as well. But if the question was what can fix the cardinals...Belliard just ain't the answer. I'm not even sure Belliard plays second...more like a VERY shallow RF.
Left when we were down 8-2 in the 7th so I missed some of the late game heroics and misadventures but i agree lboros. No life. No passion. No drive. There was no hard nine last night. There may have been a hard 3.1 but once Weaver crumbled there didn't seem to be alot of giddyup to the team through the middle innings. In previous years I would have stayed regardless of the score because we came back in those games...not anymore.
I'm of the philosophy that pitching makes a great team. I'm ok with our lesser offense if the pitching were better...but it isn't. I love the cardinals but last night was reallllllly hard to watch.
I'm with you
Booing
I'm not trying to open up another debate on the merits/rights of booing, but I wasn't comfortable with it, personally. Not that he didn't suck, mind you...
Wins from behind
For example - when the home team gives up 1 run with no outs in the 1st inning, they lose 51.3% of the time.
Weaver
Carp, Soup, Betty, Reyes, ROOKIE CALL UP.
Then IF Mulder regains form he can take that rookie call ups spot. I guess it would be okay if Sosa started too. Our pitchin' staff is just horrendous, it really stinks to have to watch some of these games.
So really
Release Weaver....
by legal dealer on Aug 3, 2006 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Also,
by legal dealer on Aug 3, 2006 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Weaver
Of course, this year, I would be moping too if I had that ERA.
that was one thing
A Pitcher
I don't want
If a pitcher shows any emotion, I would prefer it to be anger. Carpenter sometimes has that look about him - if he gives up a lead off double, he bears down and focuses on getting the next 3 guys out.
Me too...
I wasn't booing, but I didn't really have a huge problem with it.
There
The loss of those type of guys can mean a hell of a lot more than what they give you on the field.
I agree
So what
It's not the clubhouse, it's that Suppan, Marquis, Mulder and fifthstarter have sucked badly and then Reyes has been mediocre for whatever reason. You can't be a great team with one good starter, an inconsistent rookie and 3 other brutal pitchers in the slot. All non-Chris Carpenters have a combined VORP of 12.7, most of which is eaten up by Reyes' 10.6. That is why this team is not that good.
You are
However, having an "I don't give a fuck" type of guy (Larry Walker!) storming around the clubhouse after Friday's game against the Cubs may have very well breathed some life into them (including the pitching staff.) But could you see anyone on this team doing that?
They are not young cats, but nobody on the team has ever been a leader before and I don't see anyone playing like their pants are on fire (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean)...
I'm hoping someone steps up to the challenge.
(I'm also hoping the pitching doesn't continue to blow goats.)
since the beginning of this year
i still don't think he's there. albert is inspiring to watch, and years ahead of his baseball peers, but he still is something of a monolith: enormous, unescapable reality, but also a bit intimidating and unapproachable.
for the last two years, reggie sanders and larry walker filled that role. this team seems to lack the cohesiveness that last year's team had. is it tlr's fault? yes, somewhat, but the general can't do it all. he needs sergeant's to do their jobs from within to maintain group morale and strength.
i'm still young in my fandom, and perhaps a little overly hopeful, but i think that this team is far more talented than they've been playing. the problem is (at times) that they don't seem to be playing together out there.
oh yeah, and the problem is that our starting pitching has never looked worse.
Well
A Captian is only as good as his NCOs.
Meaning you can sit in you office all day and strategize your ass off, but if the leaders of the boots in the mud can't get the job done, the job ain't gettin' done.
We will see soon who the leaders are.
cont.
Then there is Dusty Baker who made excuses during the cubs free-fall. We will win when we get D Lee back. Just wait until we get wood and prior back. those are the comments that enable losing. Its OK to lose 'cause we don't have our best players.
TLR usually can get his players to respond. what's worng with this version?
It is Scott Rolen...
Which is all the more befuddling since we are playing the Phillies, a team that has total and utter contempt for him jumping ship on them.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 3, 2006 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I ended up
Extra Innings
Tonight it will be the same way, so I will probably rent a movie - I will be less likely to throw stuff at the TV.
same thing for me
Sadly
Comeback
by bgh on Aug 3, 2006 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Cincy Game
In all fairness, Danny Graves was pitching and was given his release a week later.
I thought...
I wish...
With Betty pitching tonight, I'm afraid I'll be adding more money to the wasted column. Maybe Carp can save us Friday.
Belliard
I get frustrated watching the team constantly expanding the strike zone and/or swinging (a lot of times flailing) at the first pitch. Off speed pitches really seem to baffle them. Even Pujols is becoming less disciplined, probably due to trying to do too much.
Sorry to ramble on, but this is my first post and am a bit excited.
Where in PA
And am I getting grief these past couple of days from my co-workers!
Gotcha
Tell your co-workers that the iggles are looking about as tough as the Cards are this year (the football Cards.)
Philly is football country
Lancaster is a neat place to visit, but I don't think I would want to live there. We live about midway between Philly and Lancaster, and the differences are amazing. Big city to country. If you are into crafts and home-made stuff. The food is great, too.
Am I
Chris Narveson
I really thought the Weaver experiment would work. Boy was I wrong.
Going thru the motions
by TexasCardinal on Aug 3, 2006 10:26 AM EDT reply actions
I've changed my mind
Some thoughts after reading recent posts
I have seen quite a few "blame the managment/owners" posts on here over the past few days. There is some merit to these complaints; the second base situation is very frustrating. But if you look at what's really wrong with this team, its hard to say Jocketty or ownership is to blame. The team offense, despite its frustrations and inconsistencies, has been roughly as productive as last year's (4.97 runs/game last year, 4.93 this year). What has really let us down has been the pitching.
In 2004 the Cardinals gave up 4.07 r/g. In 2005 it was 3.91. This year it has been nearly a full run more: 4.86. This is why we are losing games people, not the offense.
And where is this pitching decline coming from? Part of it comes from the 5th spot in the rotation, of course, and part may be the bullpen as well. But the bullpen has largely been steady this year (one of the best in the NL) and only so much blame can be put on Ponson and Weaver, bad as they've been.
In my mind, the real problem this year has not been the offense, the bullpen, the first starter, or the fifth starter. The biggest problem has come from three guys: Mulder, Suppan, and Marquis. Those three have provided nothing like the stable middle of the rotation that the team has come to expect in recent years. Mulder concealed an injury until it was bad enough to possibly end his season, and Suppan is just having a bad year. Marquis apparently can only pitch well when the team is winning, so he has followed those two into the depths.
There is no way to replace 3/5 of your starting rotation in mid-season. Its just impossible. It is almost impossible to get ONE good starter in the middle of the season. Many people have suggested that the team pick up an "ace." How many teams have overpaid for front-line pitching over the past few years only to have thier investment lost through injury or just poor performance? Pitchers that come to mind include Randy Johnson, A.J. Burnett, and our own Mark Mulder. People have distain for "reclaimation projects," but that strategy is exactly what got the Cardinals their ace (Carpenter was an injured league-average pitcher when the Cards signed him), and the better part of a rotation that led them to back-to-back 100 win seasons. It will take a hell of a lot of failed Weavers and Ponsons to make up for that.
So what should managment have done differently? Should they have signed Grudz? As many people have pointed out, they have spent more this year at second base than they would have just signing him. But as a whole the strategy has been extremely successful. For two years they got very good production at that position for very little money. When no one broke through this year, they overspent a bit to get a steady second baseman, but considering the amount they underspent in 04/05 we are still ahead. Not signing Grudz, like not signing Womack, was a good gamble. They were playing with house money.
Should Luna have been given the job? Perhaps. That's simply a baseball judgment on which people can reasonably disagree. Some think that Luna is the same player as Belliard, but younger and cheaper. Others (including, apparently, the Cardinals organization), think that Luna's inconsistent defense and his meltdowns in the minors and spring training justify considerable skepticism regarding his prospects as a long-term solution.
In spite of (or perhaps, because of) managment's failure to sign steady LF and 2B guys, our lineup looks pretty darn good going into the playoffs. With Duncan and Belliard starting regularly I expect our offense will be better than it was last year (when we were sans Rolen). Similarly, our bullpen is quite good. The reason our chances are slim in the playoffs is simple: Mulder, Suppan, and Marquis will probably have to start games.
I'm not sure there's anything managment can do about that.
by Leo on Aug 3, 2006 10:50 AM EDT reply actions
Suppan
Betty is just Betty. Can win a game all by himself but he is just as likely to lose the game all by himself.
Mulder
by Leo on Aug 3, 2006 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
i actually agree with you...
the Mulder trade looks worse and worse every day, but it's tough to criticize management for that too much. everyone on this board keeps talking about a "window" in which to win a World Series. after 2004, StL ownership thought the same way. they took a gamble. unfortunately, it didn't pay off (tho it really hasn't been any worse than Schuerholz's acquisition of Hudson, who has been awful).
i think ownership is trying to put the best team out there that they reasonable can. Abreu wouldn't've have helped this team that much, and would have made it nearly impossible to get the frontline starter that we so desperately need this upcoming offseason.
i kind of like that this team has (mostly) stood pat. i wish they'd done even more - let Reyes start out of Spring, stayed with Luna and played him everyday, use Falkenbourg instead of Sosa, etc. but the ownership is desperately grasping at straws to get affordable pieces that can have a positive effect on the club. hence, Belliard, Ponson, Weaver, and Sosa. those were cheap gambles; if they work, great. if not, no great loss.
they haven't worked out well (so far), but that doesn't mean the ownership isn't trying. the Sosa move, in particular, could be a good one. he is a fairly valuable commodity: cheap reliever who has the stuff to be a late-inning guy. he can also spot start, and we've got him for next year. again, if he is terrible there is no great loss; we're not paying him much and we didn't give up anything to get him. if he performs well, we get something for (almost) nothing.
Tendancy to Look Outside
I don't see any reason why Wainwright could not have been transitioned into the rotation. The chances are near nonexistent that he would not be better than Marquis and/or Weaver. Perhaps Marquis could have been spun off into a long reliever. Perhaps not. Even if he could not, Falkenborg seems like a viable bullpen arm to me and capable of filling the void Wainwright left.
While not ideal, it is clear to all that our rotation is horrid so why not alter its complexion primarily from within?
1. Carp
Reyes
Wainwright
Suppan
Narveson/Tankersly
I left off the numbers after Carp because I don't know that there is a No. 2 there and there probably isn't but I have no doubt in my mind that we'd be in more ballgames with that rotation until Mulder's (hopefully triumphant) return.
It just seems to me that the Cardinals' first impulse is to look outside their organization for solutions when perhaps the better or at least equal solution is already in the organization.
Agreed
What will it take?
It is evident, as everyone has agreed, that Weaver must go. To me, it seems equally evident that Marquis should not be starting.
The silver lining this season is its obvious similarity to 2003. That offseason was one of transition and that transition produced two consecutive 100-win teams. Hopefully, the bipolar nature of this year's Cards will spur the same type of offseason.
Is it bad that I'm already thinking about next year and we're in first place?
I agree,
by legal dealer on Aug 3, 2006 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
why not?
I'd be down w/ that move. It's worth a shot.
by jschryver138 on Aug 3, 2006 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Reyes
by Leo on Aug 3, 2006 11:04 AM EDT reply actions
However
well ...
by Leo on Aug 3, 2006 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Just a few days ago
Right ...
by Leo on Aug 3, 2006 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Where is Shea Hillenbrand?
"This is a sinking ship"
:D
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 3, 2006 11:40 AM EDT reply actions
I dunno...
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 3, 2006 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Call me insane
Other than that, the offense didn't give up in what was an 8-2 game--they scrapped back and made it 8-7. Pujols didn't come through in that 7<sup>th</sup> innng AB, but the man can't do everything. But really, give the offense some credit--they played a decent to good game and got horribly, horribly screwed by the pitching. There's still a lot to watch this year
That being said, if Reyes goes down when Mulder comes back and Weaver stays in the rotation, I will go absolutely fucking apeshit. It was insane that Wainwright didn't get Ponson's rotation spot out of spring (not to mention that Ponson was probably better suited to the 'pen than starting anyway), and after his excellent reilef work and the absolute suckitude of the rotation, it's inexplicable that he hasn't been given one lousy damn start yet.
This season has been too much--if things don't change, I'm on the 'fire tony' bandwagon. There have just been way too many completely and totally baffling managerial decisions for me to stay quiet anymore.
And please, if you want to respond to this, try to defend some of this insanity--don't just say "he's a hall of fame manager." So's Tommy LaSorda, but I don't see any teams clamoring to bring him out of retirement. Hell, Red's still alive, we could put him out there hall of fame manager.
Sorry if I come off a little harsh, but, I'm pretty mad at the brain trust at this point of time.
The thing i agree with
You're obviously right about Weaver and Flores but Looper was bad, too. He put Flores in that jam to begin with. Hancock stunk as well but it hardly mattered at that point.
I'm not on the "Fire Tony" bandwagon as it's the pitchers' job to get people out. I can't really explain Wainwright in the pen instead of Ponson except to say that, by and large, he's been great out of the pen. Would he have been very good in the rotation? Maybe. Who's to say?
I think when a team slumps, the strange managerial decisions stand out. When the team plays well, you don't notice them as much. I'm not critical of starting Ponson. I still think it was worth a shot and just didn't work out. I do believe that 2b should have been Luna's job to lose once it was clear that Spivey wasn't going to work out and I can't explain the Miles experiment but the pitching is the reason we're struggling right now. It's not b/c Miles spent too much time at 2b.
Anyway, you're right about the effort of the offense last night and it may be hard to find something good in last night's game, but that was a bright spot.
I may be wrong,
by legal dealer on Aug 3, 2006 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
pretty sure
Looking back over the game log
If Mulder
Pitching, hitting, etc.
Well, overall, yes. However, the current slide has certainly been abetted by some key folks having, let's say, mini-slumps. What was our overall avg. with RISP in Chicago? Albert's batting under .200 in Wrigley this year. Rolen has cooled off lately. JED likewise.
Despite all the complaints about the need for a LF and against Jenc, they are two of the steadiest bats lately. (I do agree, however, that both are less than ideal defensively.) When (not if) Albert and Scotty pick it up again things will improve. That won't solve the problem when we give up 16 runs, but it will help turn some 5-4 losses into 7-5 wins.
I meant more recently than that.
by ArkansasTravs on Aug 3, 2006 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Overreliance
But, to be sure, the overall problems is the starting rotation.
Clarification
It's amazing
I hate this feeling . . .
Bernie has a good article
I agree fully,
by legal dealer on Aug 3, 2006 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting
Jones
by rockin the red on Aug 3, 2006 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I would think
hey just
Now go home
;-)
Maybe
Yes, the management's decision making (F/O and TLR/DD) can be questioned, challenged, criticized, etc...Yes, there are players who are not playing up to their expectations/potential, yes, some (most?) of the acquisitions have been a bust...
Wait; jeez, now I'm depressed. I need a latte...a cold one.
I live in NY, and Los Mets are my second favorite team (saw my first game at 6; Willie Mays souvenir cup day, if I remember correctly). And even with a 14-game (or so) lead, they still have significant issues, with fans b**ching and moaning about what they lack. I think The Birds can beat the Mets in the playoffs. I do feel less hopeful when matching them up against Det, ChiWS, Yankees, RSox...but if they get to October with Albert, JEd, Scott, Carp healthy...anything can happen. Right now, with the division and league as rough as it is, I think it's a matter of surviving.
Weaver (whom I've had an inexplicable appreciation for, and whom I believe was absolutely RUINED by coming to the Yankees), Ponson, et al are cannon fodder. The core needs to stay healthy, and they'll have as good a chance as anyone to succeed this post-season. I'm less germane about 07, 08, 09...
Just remember
Pitching
To me, that suggests that the front office has dealt for pitchers in the expectation that TLR and Duncan add value to pitchers of moderate talent by skilled coaching and management.
Last night's press conference may be the first acknowledgment that TLR now recognizes that Plan A (wait for Mulder's return while he and Duncan coach Weaver and Sosa up to mediocrity) is no longer viable.
So, what is Plan B?
Whether Mulder comes back soon enough and good enough is anybody's guess (unanswered question: did Mulder successfully conceal his injury from TLR/Duncan, or did they gamble that he could pitch through it?). Marquis's trademark inconsistency is unlikely to change; Suppan's deterioration is unexplained; and Reyes hasn't looked all that sharp since his gem against Chicago.
PS If Belliard can't lay off junk low and outside, he's headed for Junior Spivey land.
Guess who is starting for the Cubs tonight!
Wonder if they'd take Jeff Weaver for him?
The Cubs rotation
I looked at
Last year, the rotation posted an opponents batting average of .253 with nobody on & .274 with runners on. This year, .280 without / .281 with. While it's obvious the starters have been worse this year, if they had last year's tendency to get ground balls / DP's, the average would be even higher with runners on. (Don't be fooled by the higher average; it just means that it took 2 at bats to get three outs instead of 3.)
That's not the real interesting stat. The relievers last year also posted a .253 AVG with nobody on, but allowed only a .234 average with runners on. This year, it's just the opposite: .222 nobody on, .266 runners on. And there are some really amazing splits (none on/runners on):
- Hancock (.168/.247)
- Looper (.206/.392 - yikes!)
- Izzy (.250/.139 - backwards)
- Johnson (.158/.304)
- Kinney (.267/.118 - backwards)
As a whole, I think that the bullpen has been more than adequate. Izzy has corrected his early season control problems, Wainwright has been solid all year, Looper has excelled more than he's struggled, Hancock has outperformed all of our expectations, and the LOOGY's have done well vs. same side batters.
Continuation foul
Last year, his AVG against with nobody on was .252, with a .429 SLG; runner on, it bumped up to a .279 AVG, but down to a .424 SLG. 19 solo HR's, 9 multi-run shots.
This year, with nobody on, .248/.425 (basically the same); runners on, .319/.601 (The Human Torch). 12 solo HR's, 13 multi-run shots.
So what's the problem? Pitching from the stretch? Bullheaded approach? Yadi passing along pitch selection to the hitters because Jason bet him that he couldn't outhit three of the starting pitchers? Although #3 sounds rather sadistic, but in a fun way, I'm gonna have to go with #1, Bob.
Izzy (.250/.139 - backwards)
It's been a career trend with him
Okay
If I had three wishes
- I would call upon the "Running Redbirds" in their prime to return in the powder blues with the exception of Clark and Pendelton (Scotty and Albert are better). Can I keep Eck to play on the bench as a backup to Herr?
- I would be 10 feet tall so I could hold our ownership by their ankles and shake every penny out of their pockets so I could give it all to Walt, telling him to build "The Best Fans in Baseball" the team they deserve.
- I would ask for 4 Carp clones with two geneticaly altered to be lefties.
by Lonedawg on Aug 3, 2006 4:24 PM EDT reply actions
I'd keep Clark and Pendleton,
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 3, 2006 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
You would take
okay I would keep pendelton maybe to play left field.
by Lonedawg on Aug 3, 2006 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I loved willie
8 year old me owned a willie action figure that was his favorite non-transformer toy
but
Jim Edmonds is a better player than Willie McGee was. I think we'd have to move him to left or right
For the hell of it
1B- Pujols
2nd- Hornsby
3rd - Rolen/Boyer (pick'em)
SS- Ozzie
LF- Mussial
CF - McGee
RF - Slaughter
C - Joe Torrie
P Gibson, Dean, Carlton
by Lonedawg on Aug 3, 2006 4:48 PM EDT reply actions
My roster would be
2B - Hornsby
3B - Rolen (never saw Boyer play)
SS - Ozzie
LF - Musial
CF - Edmonds (As much as I loved watching Willie, I would take Edmonds defense and power)
RF - Slaughter
C - Simmons
P - Gibson, Dean, Carlton, but I want to add a fourth arm to the rotation - John Tudor
Closer - Lee Smith (gotta have a closer these days)
I would take
by Lonedawg on Aug 3, 2006 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The closer
I would definitely put 1979 Bake McBride in CF
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 3, 2006 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
one problem
according to
hm.
- Lankford (LF)
- Musial (RF)
- Hornsby (2B)
- Pujols (1B)
- Edmonds (CF)
- Rolen (3B)
- Simmons (C)
- Smith (SS)
- Gibson
- Dean
- Haines
Come on
by Lonedawg on Aug 4, 2006 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions
By career Win Shares
- Musial
- Hornsby
- Brock
- Gibson
- Slaughter
- Ozzie
- Simmons
- Boyer
- Flood
- Medwick
- Lankford
- Bottomley
- Schoendienst
- Jesse Haines (20's starter/reliever, HOFer)
- Frisch
- Mize
- Marion
- The Great Albert Pujols
- McGee
- (tie) Hernandez & Edmonds
Thats pretty cool....
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 3, 2006 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Win Shares
Didn't someone do a diary series on this?
CF
I know that it was a different era and that is why I'm interested to hear the Jimmy vs. Willie disucssion, especially since Wilie was the CF when I was growing up.
Willie vs. Jimmy
As I am typing this, another CF comes to mind that should get some consideration: Curt Flood. I never saw him play, but I hear that he was fun to watch.
Is there something about Cardinal fans that live..
7 time Gold Glove winner
Flood
85 HR
636 RBIs
.293/.342/.389
.731 OPS
McGee
3 Gold Glove
1 MVP
79 HR
856 RBI
.295/.333/.396
.729 OPS
McGee won the one MVP, but that was the only season he even got MVP votes. Flood was in the Top 15 in voting numerous times. In 1968, he was 4th, that's with battling teamate Gibson for votes.
Is the Cardinals organization really THAT bitter about him declining to be traded to a racist team that they refuse to retire his number?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 3, 2006 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I had the privilege
Curt Flood
Alright...
PLEASE don't let this be another Marquis specialty...
Official St Louis Site
His start against the braves on 7-24 went 5.1 innings. He only got 16 outs on the night. But he struck 12 batters out and walked two. He lost with 7ER on 6 hits. That is a crazy line. anyone know anything about this kid?
Since I live near Philly
He is to the Phillies what Reyes is to the Cardinals - the next great pitcher. He has a plus fastball (mid-90's) and an excellent change-up. He is still learning how to pitch because he missed a lot of time in the minors with various injuries.
He can be great, or he can be hit hard, depending on location.
He is the type of pitcher who can make the Cardinals look bad, a left-hander with a good change-up. I hope I am wrong, but I can see a lot of pop-ups tonight off the Cards' bats.
Let me predict the way tonight goes
4.1, 7 ER, 9 H, 4 BB, 1 HBP, 1 K
Eckstein 1-for-4
Taguchi 0-for-4
Pujols 0-for-3, BB
Rolen 1-for-4
Jenc 0-for-3
JED 1-for-3, HR
Belliard 0-for-3
Molina 0-for-3
Phillies 10
Cards 1
by ryanisforever on Aug 3, 2006 5:33 PM EDT reply actions
Oh
by ryanisforever on Aug 3, 2006 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
by ryanisforever on Aug 3, 2006 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Theme Song
Ohh man...
In case you don't know that is the name of the 1985 Cardinals video. Theme song is the "The Heat is on." I was -2 years old in '85, but that is still my favorite movie of all time.
I used to alternate
Maybe someone above is right. What this team needs is a theme song.
My only vivid memory of Game 7 of the 82 series (I was six) was Celebration playing.
Loved the Heat is On in 85. These guys and us fans need a rallying cry.
Newbie
I had a chance recently to see the Cards play at Coors Field...there were a LOT of Cards fans there. My sister and I joined the flow of people. I had a sign for Albert "In Pujols We Trust." I held it up all through Tuesday's batting practice and nobody even looked over. :( My sister and I ALMOST got Rolen's autograph, but he ran away before we really got close. Still, we watched Carp pitch a gem and Pujols whack one about a section away from us...very cool. We also hung out above the bullpen and watched Carp warm up. I took some pictures...can I/should I post them here?
It was really, really fun to watch these guys play LIVE (I had never seen them in person before) and they won both games I was at. (I went Wednesday, too). Though, Colorado seems to do weird things to the Cards...they win a lot there and then stumble coming away from a series with the Rockies....go figure.
welcome
colorado dude
by copes on Aug 3, 2006 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw Giants vs. Rockies
No one can be worst than Weaver
I think I am so mad right now cause LaRussa is still just in love with Veterans. He refuses to play any young guys not named Duncan/Molina.
I know Tankersly is not the solution but can he really be any worst?
Belliard looks excatly like Juan E in his swings.
by DimitroffVodka on Aug 3, 2006 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Weaver
However, in all of Weaver's last three starts I've seen a common theme (no, not just the obvious...he sucks) but he throw balls on his first and second pitch...EVERY FREAKIN TIME!
Of course you're gonna get get rocked when you have average stuff and are always workin from behind. His curve has decent movement, but he can't through it over the plate.
If Mulder comes back and his "overhand" curve is still 3/4...we're screwed. I'm glad we didn't deal wainright or reyes, b/c we don't need any more old arms.
by copes on Aug 3, 2006 6:47 PM EDT reply actions
tonight's lineups
Edmonds sits against the lefty Cole Hamels, and Spiezio gets the start in LF.
J. Rollins ss
D. Dellucci rf
C. Utley 2b
R. Howard 1b
P. Burrell lf
A. Rowand cf
C. Coste c
A. Nunez 3b
C. Hamels p
D. Eckstein ss
R. Belliard 2b
A. Pujols 1b
S. Rolen 3b
J. Encarnacion rf
S. Spiezio lf
S. Taguchi cf
G. Bennett c
J. Marquis p
Why
by DimitroffVodka on Aug 3, 2006 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
huh?
by Glenn Brummer stole home on Aug 3, 2006 9:21 PM EDT reply actions
I was wrong about Weaver
But I have a question: Can Weaver be sent to Memphis? I'm assuming not, or that probably would've been brought up already, but if he could then maybe he could work out his problems down there? Probably wouldn't help us any this year, but if he were to turn things around, then maybe we'd have a shot at resigning him for little money? I realize that many will not want to even consider spending anymore time on Weaver, but it wouldn't cost much and I see it as a free opportunity to add another option for next year's rotation.
As for Mulder's injury, it seems like he'd have a better chance of getting back into his groove sooner then most pitchers coming off the DL. I say this because his injury wasn't really all that serious or was it? Seems like he still has a realistic shot at getting back into shape and helping come playoff time to me, but I know that it's not a given too.
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