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Game 86 Open Thread: July 8, 2006

Birdos_avatar_tiny by lboros on in St. Louis Cardinals News


reyes               clemens
1-3, 3.30          1-2, 2.76

damn, but it's good to have edmonds back.

it's as if he did more or less the same thing as clemens -- took the first three months of the season off to conserve finite physical resources. july 1 arrives, he comes out of retirement and goes hard till the end of hte season. a more sensible sequence than what we saw last year, when his ailing shoulder rendered him a shell-of-self after the all-star break and a slap hitter in the postseason. ( seems to have rubbed off on rodriguez, too.) it's not just that his stats are better -- he looks like a great player again. all three of his homers this month came off that trademark edmonds uppercut, where he reaches out and paddles the ball high and deep to right field -- like a tennis player yanking a cross-court backhand. he's taking his full rip again. i figured that we'd never see that swing again -- that, between the shoulder and the abdominal stuff, he could no longer generate it. for the same reasons, i figured we wouldn't be seeing many of those out-of-body-type defensive miracles like the one he performed on the hill last night. that's as valuable a play as a two-run homer.

it's as if we've been working with the demo-only version of edmonds, with all the more robust features disabled. then suddenly the disk arrives in the mail and you load it in, and you find out the program can do all this stuff you never realized it was capable of. it looks to me as if the edmonds disk has arrived. . . . .

ah, the resourcefulness of the press. danup, beset with a server crisis not of his own making, has nonetheless published this morning; his temporary quarters are over at blogspot. go there for a scouting report on raj clemens' liver spots and jason marquis' screwball. . ..

trade deadline is 23 days away; ken rosenthal surveys the nl. he makes no mention of sid ponson, but i would expect sid to find a taker -- prob'y after the 10-day DFA period has passed, so the acquiring team doesn't have to assume his contract (and the attached incentives). he may wash ashore at shea, in arizona, possibly in arlington texas; he's no good, but there's a lot worse out there.

speaking of replacement-level starting pitchers: dennis tankersley pitched 7 shutout innings and won 1-0 last night vs albuquerque; era over the last two months is now 2.35.

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lboros
props again for the site.  I meander through the other SB Nation blogs on occassion and while they are all very good, few have built the following that you have.  Excellent job.

I hope JRod gets the start tonight.  Love to see him drop some more bombs.  Luna too, Miles just seems like Eckstein-lite and not as consistent.

Are we expecting to see weaver come in relief during this series?  I know TLR said he wouldn't start prior to the All Star Break...

by azruavatar on Jul 8, 2006 9:49 AM EDT reply actions  

thanks azru
i just have better readers -- smarter, more involved w the team. . . . and a better team to write about

by lboros on Jul 8, 2006 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree...
most of the other sites just don't measure up.  Not to say they are bad, but VEB is just so much better.  The only other ones I frequent are Beyond the Boxscore and Minorleagueball.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

P-D
The P-D this morning said Weaver pitching in relief this weekend was a distinct possibility, but that his first start will be July 17 against the Braves, which I just now realize I am going to - let's hope I can take some karma with me.

by STLEdge on Jul 8, 2006 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

it is a must read
one of the first sites i visit every day.

i think it's a nl central thing, because Bleed Cubbie Blue, Bucs Dugout, Brew Crew Ball (gotta love the MiLB splits) and the Red Reporter are pretty decent blogs too. of course I'm very partial to Viva, but not just because of the team it follows.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 8, 2006 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great site
Agreed.  This is the first site I go to everyday and in my 20-30 minutes of net surfing a day I spend half of it at your site.  Great job.

by Lawless on Jul 8, 2006 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

thanks a lot ev'yone
i really do appreciate the kind words. hope you'll all keep reading

by lboros on Jul 8, 2006 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

VEB is an addiction
I have to read EVERY post...even if I've missed a couple of days...I have to go back and read ALL of them, lest I miss something. :-)
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clemens and Edmonds
OK, maybe it's logical for an aging player like Clemens to conserve his energy for late season and playoffs. I never got the impression that Edmonds was slacking or resting, only that he was hurting, and it's great to see him back in form.

By the way, Clemens' photo makes him look like the most handsome aged zombie derelict in baseball
 

by madridbend on Jul 8, 2006 10:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Maybe it is a legends thing
Maddux looks like a serial killer...and not the handsome and cunning Ted Bundy type either. More like the flesh lampshade, tool-tucking, "Would you f*ck me?", lime-covered crawlspace type...
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

'Stros fan chipping in...
Biggio's picture looks kinda creepy, too! We've been making fun of his pic all year.

by StrosDux on Jul 8, 2006 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lima and Ponson both
are DFA'd.  I wonder if they can be traded for each other, then DFA'd again.  You could repeat that until someone is really, really, really desperate for pitching at the end of the month.  

I doubt it would be legal but it would be kind of funny.  

by isaac on Jul 8, 2006 11:02 AM EDT reply actions  

lboros
Longtime reader, first-time poster. Let me jump on azruavatar's thoughts and commend you on a great site. It's become an everyday must read.

Great point on Edmonds. I believe we'll see vintage Jimmy in the second half. If we couple his play with the bat acquisition that I have a feeling Walt will  come up with, the Cards could pull this division off after all.  

by thats a winner on Jul 8, 2006 11:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Jimmy
It really has been fun watching Jimmy the last couple of days. Like you, lboros, I had kind of started to come to terms with the fact that we'd never again see the hall-of-fame caliber play we're used to from him. But that swing Thursday night-- I didn't realize how much I'd missed seeing it until then.

Let's hope for lots more, and maybe a return of Rodriguez's power stroke, too.

by levistahl on Jul 8, 2006 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rodriguez
Though I realize I'm not alone, I've been waiting all season long for J-Rod to get his first homer. I figured it would kickstart him and we'd start seeing more power afterwards. After long expecting it to happen any day, however, I'd finally gotten to the point where I had given up, but he obviously hadn't. I hope it's the first of many more this season for both J-Rod and Edmonds.

by rob is back on Jul 8, 2006 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

An Absolute Bomb
JRod's homer was crushed. Such drives are not flukes. He turned on a 94 mph fastball. I agree with LB that it seems JRod's power outage may have been due to shoulder problems.

by bgh on Jul 8, 2006 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do we know for sure that he had a should injury?
I seem to remember talk about this also, but don't remember the specifics. I know he's had a couple of small injuries, but I don't remember anything serious. Did I miss something or has it been confirmed that he had a shoulder injury? If true, that would explain why he hasn't been receiving playing time, so it should be interesting to see if he receives more from this point forward.

by rob is back on Jul 8, 2006 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

JRod
has absolutely crushed the ball before, but they've been line drives. He's also had some bad placement, hitting 390+ footers to center field in places like Comerica and the juicebox.

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

True
But it seems like he went some time without hitting the ball hard, until recently. He hit hard last year, and at the start of this year, but then seemed to cool off a bit and started hitting a lot of soft dribblers.

I think this was when people started doubting his power and began suggesting that his luck had run out. I didn't buy that because he'd hit the ball too hard in the past for it to be a fluke. That's why the shoulder injury makes sense, if it's true.

Btw, according to Matthew Leach, he's starting in LF today, so maybe that's a sign that they believe he's recovered from whatever was hampering his power output.

by rob is back on Jul 8, 2006 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

He hurt it in st
and missed some games at the beginning of the year.

by sdesserman on Jul 8, 2006 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Edmonds
It's great to see the Birds be the team with the commanding early lead, see them get timely hits, and see them piling on in the late innings instead of caving in. But the coolest thing about last night was reading Garner's comment about Edmonds' catch: "I'm just tired of seeing him do it." To see an opposing coach or player so openly, almost resignedly frustrated with one of your guys, especially after an 8-2 whuppin' (and especially when you've got two more games with them), is a real treat.

by BTown Birds fan on Jul 8, 2006 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

speaking of CFs
where was Taveras last night?  Is he hurt? I don't find him to be a very spectacular CF but they have remained very committed to him despite his marginal offensive abilities.

by azruavatar on Jul 8, 2006 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I read/heard
sometime in the last couple of weeks that based largely on those limited offensive skills that they've committed to burke as their cf starter.

He came in as a defensive replacement in the 9th on Thursday night and ph for rodriguez last night, but didn't stay in.

by sdesserman on Jul 8, 2006 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's Ba-a-ck!
I saw that too, and it reminded me of Jimmy making that incredible catch in Cincinnati robbing Jason Larue in '04, which was like the fourth time he brought back a home run against the Reds in two years. I was watching MLB Extra Innings with the Reds announcers and George Grande moaning in exasperation over and over: "He did it again! He did it again!"

I love that man in a way I can't even explain to my wife.

by bkwelker on Jul 8, 2006 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember that
I think he had two of those absurd catches over the center field wall in that one series against Cincy in 2004. That was good stuff.

by BTown Birds fan on Jul 8, 2006 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha HA!
y'know... i can relate.

by kindred on Jul 8, 2006 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think my favorite
was right after "The Catch". One of the Astros coaches was miked up, and said, "How it the world did he make that play? SON OF A...gun" :-)
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's the damn Ford commercial
Our slide started when Ford called on the American Idol fool who croons his "Possibilities" spot to hawk the worst made cars in America.  We'll be fine when that spot goes to moth balls.

by patton044 on Jul 8, 2006 12:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Im very superstitious as well
I stopped visiting cardsbaseball.net yesterday. Not to mention that I watched the entire game for the first time in about a month.

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 8, 2006 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, the skid actually
traces back to when we started complimenting the looks of the opposing pitchers. I think that's had the opposite effect from what we were looking for.

That Clemens sure is ugly!

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

good stuff on tankersley
both he and narveson have been really good at AAA -- it's good to see from narveson as well.  i can't help but wonder if those 2 might be able to compete for the 5 spot next year OR throw a couple of starts this year if we are able to trade Marquis for a bat

by chuckb on Jul 8, 2006 12:49 PM EDT reply actions  

I thought I saw that Naverson was getting hit
Somewhere I saw hitters where hitting at about a .300 clip against him. That might have change or it could have been someone else.

I hope that if Suppan continues to suck it up that Tankersly will be given a start or two.

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 8, 2006 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Narveson Line
5 GS/REC: 3-2/3.46 ERA/26.0 IP/25 HA/11 RA/10 ER/
3 HR/9 BB/15 SO/1.31 WHIP

No BAA on the Memphis site. Maybe try the Minor League splits mentioned in the post above?

Narveson is batting .333/.333 OBP/1.333 SLG/1.667 OPS in 3 AB's. (Yes, he is one-for-three.)

by bgh on Jul 8, 2006 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heres how I see the roster moves in the next few
We will start from the first two and move foward. I think the Weaver deal is the first of three or four more moves in the next couple of weeks.

1)A pitcher will be picked up and Ponson will be released. That has already obviously happened. I just thought that Ponson was a cancer in the clubhouse. His atttitude rubbed me the wrong way. I like the Weaver deal.

2) Suppan and prospects will be moved for a bat. I heard last week (thursday) on KFNS from Bob Ramsey that (a unnamed) MLB source knows that Jockety had been in conversations the past week or two with the Philles. Maybe Burrell or Abreu. I can see either being moved soon as the Mets continue to distance themselves from everyone in the NL East.

3)Thompson comes back up and spot starts while Wainwright conditions himself to start.

4)I could see Mulder being moved for a middle tier prospect and a bullpen arm. Perferably a left and Tyler Johnson gets sent back down to the minors. Wainright brought back up to take Mulders spot in the rotation.

5)I can also possibly see Hancock being sent down for Falkenbugrh if he struggles any time soon

These are just opinons feel free to rip me apart.
What are your thoughts?

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 8, 2006 1:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Marquis more than Suppan
I suspect that Marquis may be more likely to be moved because his cost after this year may make him too expensive for what his production warrants.

I think that it is a wash between Thompson spot starting and Wainwright conditioning since both have been primarily bullpen figures.

Mulder will be with the Cards until the end of the year for three reasons:

  1. A trade by the deadline would be trading Mulder when his trade value is at its absolute lowest and would yield little in return.
  2. Trading Mulder now would be, in effect, Walt admitting that trading for him was a horrible mistake and he's not going to do it. They'll lowball him and then spin it the same way they spun Renteria leaving and Burnett choosing the Jays.
  3. If Mulder comes back at 100% and shows he is at his #3 starter form from last season, it is a valuable pick-up to the team and the rotation and would, in effect, be like a trade (since the healthy Mulder has been out of action for a very long time).
I wouldn't be surprised to see a Delluci trade. Unless the Phils eat a large portion of either contract, the Cards are unlikely to acquire Abreu or Burrell with so much of the rotation becoming free agents. They'll need payroll flexibility to fill those gaps.

by bgh on Jul 8, 2006 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

wont we have that flexibility?
considering that 4/5 of the rotation more than likely wont be back.

1) I think a middle tier prospect and a bullpen arm is a pretty big down grade considering what we gave up for him.

2)I think everyone admitts it, including walt even though he would never say so in public.

3)I dont see him returning to pre-trade form. I also dont think he likes it here.

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 8, 2006 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cost/Benefit
The rotation with which we started the season cost $22.9M. There is talk of giving Carp a raise and extension. The offseason, Marquis will get a raise, as will Mulder even with the injury. We have two in-house, homegrown solutions that are cheap (and unproven over the long grind of a full MLB season): Wainwright and Reyes. Free agent pitchers are expensive and we are going to need a couple of them.

As for Mulder, there are many who would like to trade him. I was hoping that we would do so this offseason, but now is not the time and the time will not be this season. He would get nothing but marginal and mediocre talent in return. It's a better gamble to keep him and see if he can put it back together.

by bgh on Jul 8, 2006 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

important consideration about abreu
his contract includes
a) a no-trade clause, and
b) a $16m option for 2008.
it has been reported that abreu will only waive the no-trade if the acquiring team immediately exercises the 2008 option.

no way the cardinals can or should do that. so if that information is true, i wouldn't expect the cards to get bobby.

dellucci i can see. i thought they should've made a run at him in ST, but the phillies gave up a pretty good prospect for him --- more than stl could afford. he'd come much cheaper now

by lboros on Jul 8, 2006 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Leave it to a series against the Astros
to bring him back.  He's been sooo good against them.  All the Texas fans here haaaaaate Jimmy.  Now all that is needed is for the rotation to stabilize...

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2006 1:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Absolutely hate his whiny, smug ass...
but that's because he's an Astrokillah. I good ignore the whininess if he didn't routinely have games making amazing catches and hitting bombs against us. Particularly at MMP.

by StrosDux on Jul 8, 2006 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth
Bernie M. posted on his message board yesterday that, despite public comments to the contrary, Wainwright is not an untouchable.

by steve in georgia on Jul 8, 2006 2:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Wainwright
I would hate, hate, hate to see Wainwright go, but to get an impact bat Walt may have no choice. I don't think it will be Abreu due to the financial reasons already mentioned. Burrell would be OK. Dellucci would come for a lesser prospect than Wainwright, but I don't consider him an impact bat. His only two seasons with more than 10 HRs came in Texas, which is a hitter's park.

by thats a winner on Jul 8, 2006 2:25 PM EDT reply actions  

The line of thinking
This is pure speculation, but with Jimmy seeming to be in the midst of a renaissance, do you think that they may be looking for a second tier bat--a la Delluci?

I know that we all want an IMPACT BAT. Our offense has not been clicking for very much of the season. A healthy Albert, rollin' Rolen, and healthy Jimmy may be the ticket to sustained offensive production. That said, our offensive production has not been far off (and in some areas, it has been better) than last season.

St. Louis Team Offensive Stats 2005:

Runs Scored: 805 (3rd in NL)
Batting AVG.: .270 (2nd in NL)
OPS: .762 (5th in NL)

St. Louis Team Offensive Stats 2006:

Runs Scored: 426 (5th in NL)
Batting AVG.: .279 (2nd in NL)
OPS: .776 (4th in NL)

by bgh on Jul 8, 2006 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'd hate to see wainright go
but in my opinion if they could get a decent young OF that will help this year and for some to come that would be great. Lets face it the OF problems arent going away any time soon. The OF is aging and will need to be addressed at some point, so if they could do a move for cheap and do the whole "we love St.Louis we'll sign thing" ala rolen and Big Mac then thatd be great.

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

that means
AAron (i can't possibly not swing at the first pitch) Miles will be leading off.

J-Rod earned a start with that monster tater, he's batting second. Luna's at SS

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 8, 2006 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hee, hee
This is worth a read, if only for coining the nickname "Sullen of Swat" for Barry Bonds.  It's the "Anti-all-star" team.

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9543316

by punditmoi on Jul 8, 2006 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

lineups...
STL:
Miles, 2B
Rodriguez, LF
Pujols, 1B
Rolen, 3B
Edmonds, CF
Encarnacion, RF
Luna, SS
Bennett, C
Reyes, P

HOU:
Biggio, 2B
Lamb, 1B
Ensberg, 3B
Berkman, RF
Wilson, LF
Burke, CF
Everett, SS
Ausmus, C
Clemens, P

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 3:38 PM EDT reply actions  

does anyone in here
ever use the live chat on MLB.com's gameday?

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

man i get the
dogers giants since im on west coast(WA)....sucks

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 3:49 PM EDT reply actions  

same here
and i even have the InDemand package - evidently, they don't air the games when Fox has the right to.

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

The national live blackout
blows...but it can be beaten...
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

stop
SWINGING AT THE FIRST PITCH!!! AARON!
Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 8, 2006 4:11 PM EDT reply actions  

come on
get that first hr off the rocket sometime today

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 4:14 PM EDT reply actions  

anyone notice
rolens avg with RISP..not very good like 180 or something

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

.266
going into today
DCGreg

by DCGreg on Jul 8, 2006 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

not much
to worry about. Ba/risp is more or less a luck stat that no one repeats. Eck sure isn't repeating what he did last season in that dept. .278 vs .373.. but yeah, you would like to see that # go up, and I'm sure it will.
Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 8, 2006 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh i was
going by gamecast is said like 1 something

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Anthony ain't right
ain't this the guy who walked like 9 guys in 11 start for Memphis.
Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 8, 2006 4:27 PM EDT reply actions  

is this Duncan's influence?
too many two-seamers? I can't see the game, can anyone tell me what he's missing with?

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

i'm stuck
in the Chicago market, stuck with sox verses sox. can anyone tell me how anthony's velocity is?
Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 8, 2006 4:33 PM EDT reply actions  

two hits
JR,AP, error by lamb, frielders choice

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 4:34 PM EDT reply actions  

he's really having trouble
putting guys away. and from what shannon says it's not like he's making bad pitches.
Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 8, 2006 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Dammit
Have we had a successful squeeze this year?
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 4:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't know...
...but with the top of lineup coming up, I wouldn't have done it there.

Now you've got Reyes thinking about how he botched that as he has to go back out and pitch.  You don't want to screw with the focus and mentality of your young pitcher going up against our fiercest division rival.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2006 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course, he then goes out and throws...
a 10 pitch inning.  So, I say, screw with the kids head all you want.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 8, 2006 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed
Good to see him follow it up with a 1-2-3 inning. Atta boy kid....
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

anyone got stats...
... on the success rate of TLR's squeeze plays this year? i know i've seen several botched efforts in the past few weeks. i've never really like the play. in my view, you take your two chances to get the run home there instead of forcing Reyes to get that down.

oh well.

by kindred on Jul 8, 2006 4:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I think we're paying
for all of the successful squeeze plays from last year. It's not called the "suicide squeeze" for nothing

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

squeeze
I've got no problem with it in that situation with Miles on deck. He's not the hitter Eck is. If Eck was on deck, the squeeze would have been a bad choice.

by thats a winner on Jul 8, 2006 4:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Why bat Miles...
there at all? He's easily the least likely guy in the lineup to get on base against Clemens

by guayzimi on Jul 8, 2006 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Miles
Good question. His on-base pct. has been terrible since June 1. Of course, who else would lead off? Luna?

by thats a winner on Jul 8, 2006 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

is anthony afraid of Biggio?
i just find it weird he's walked him 2 x's. nice DP there...i guess it doesn't matter.
Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 8, 2006 5:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Atta boy Jimmy!
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 5:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Clemens' velocity?
I'm "watching" on Gameday. Does Clemens have the same speed, or has he slowed down?

by madridbend on Jul 8, 2006 5:12 PM EDT reply actions  

how many pitches has miles seen
like 6 in 3 at bats. Where for art thou, Deivi Cruz?
Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 8, 2006 5:17 PM EDT reply actions  

my thoughts exactly
Miles is an easy out- even Reyes works the count better.

by madridbend on Jul 8, 2006 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Miles...
is 1/9th of our lineup and 1/4th of our outs. And this was completely predictable...

by guayzimi on Jul 8, 2006 5:19 PM EDT reply actions  

At least...
bat him 8th where he can make fewer outs

by guayzimi on Jul 8, 2006 5:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Luna
should be leading off, no doubt about it

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Shows what Eckstein means to this lineup
I suppose watching Miles helps us to appreciate Eckstein.

by madridbend on Jul 8, 2006 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

not to mention
better OBP and SLG - TLR likes that 'pop' at the top

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reyes
is at 62 after four, Clemens at 74 after five

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

decent ab
by AP, but is it me or is he scuffling? any thoughts hardcore..?jk Im glad that the break is soon. More rest, except the day he plays

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 5:30 PM EDT reply actions  

anthony
you disappoint me. Walking Ausmus? who's like 1-44. he's pitched a good game overall so far, but c'mon!!
Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 8, 2006 5:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Is it me
or does Reyes have a pretty damn good pickoff move to 2nd? I remember him getting a guy with that move in a ST game last year...
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 5:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Is Reyes tired?
not looking sharp this inning

by madridbend on Jul 8, 2006 5:43 PM EDT reply actions  

hmmm
i hate this park...and that team

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 5:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Why in the hell
can we not reach those boxes?

That's about the only place Biggio can hit one out anymore...

"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 5:45 PM EDT reply actions  

perhaps
Reyes is just trying to fit in with the other STL starters

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 5:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Two words Jimmy...
Pine Tar...
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 5:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Wonderful...
now Luna is out and Miles is still in.

by guayzimi on Jul 8, 2006 6:00 PM EDT reply actions  

since they are going
head to head lets look at the FA signings(hopefully no one else did)

Juan= 282 avg11hr 46rbi 11 walks 47SO obp311slg 465
Preston 289 avg 8hr46 rbi18bb78 So obp 328 Slg 434

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 6:04 PM EDT reply actions  

im going for a relief pitcher
tryout tommorrwo I figure I can put up as many walks for the leage minimum heck less than a mil maybe 300 thousand. the hrs i give up will be monumental. But I will do it with originality..Like a bad Turk Wendell or John Rocker...wait nm

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 6:06 PM EDT reply actions  

wow
it took 2 pitches to get through that AB. Go get 'em Miles
Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 8, 2006 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Dammit
Enough with the lead-off walks already...
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 6:17 PM EDT reply actions  

has kinney been taking
lessons from Izzy and Veres..see first you have to get people on then you try to get out of the jam..if you do it you look great

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 6:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Seems that
our boy Reyes has a penchant for giving up un-timely homeruns.  I think about every one has either tied the game or put the other team ahead.

And I don't think there's anyone in that bullpen I hate seeing more than Randy Flores.

by Big Red on Jul 8, 2006 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can't argue with that
When was the last time he retired a lefty anyway?
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Flores comes through again
and on goes the parade of 1000 relievers...
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 6:25 PM EDT reply actions  

like i said yesterday
they win won and then drop a few...this game isnt over yet, but Bertha is warming up

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 6:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Sad
You gotta win when you score four on Clemens...
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sad
You gotta win when you score four. period.

by Brownale on Jul 8, 2006 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sad
when you gotta score at least 7 to win.

by sdesserman on Jul 8, 2006 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sad
that you know it's probably over whenever Flores takes the mound.

God, even Wainwright can't put a zero on the board anymore...

"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a feeling
the Cards will go quietly for the rest of this one... :-(
"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 6:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Yea,
They're gone quietly since the 4th. Not even a base runner.  

by Brownale on Jul 8, 2006 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please tell me
that pitch was 5 feet over Rolen's head and the umpire made the worst strike 3 call in the history of baseball.

Since I'm watching this game on mlb.com gameday, I can't see the video.  And I'm pretty sure Rolen didn't just let one go down the middle of the plate, down by two, with two outs and two strikes in the eigth inning.

Tell me I'm right.....

Please?

Somebody?

by Big Red on Jul 8, 2006 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

it was
on the corner... questionable call.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah
we threaten to go out incredibly meekly 1-2-3 in both the 7th and 8th.  Any bets on whether we can match that impressive feat in the 9th?

by sdesserman on Jul 8, 2006 6:40 PM EDT reply actions  

At least in the 8th
the Birds took 11 pitches to go down.

They only took 5 pitches (!!) to go down in the 7th...

8 pitches to go down in the 6th...

And 13 pitches (8 to Pujols) to go down in the 5th.

So let's see: Four innings, 12 batters, 12 outs, 37 pitches.

Way to work it.

by salvomania on Jul 8, 2006 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pearls of wisdom from the Fox announcers
Everyone raise your hand who didn't know that the Biggio HR was a turning point...
"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 6:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Birds have now lost 6 times in 6 weeks
in games in which they had a 3-run lead at some point.

On the plus side, they've hung on to win 8 times (including last night) in games in which they've had a 3-run lead over the past six weeks.

Of course, they've only come back twice ALL YEAR when they've been down by 3+ runs...

by salvomania on Jul 8, 2006 6:45 PM EDT reply actions  

When was blooper's last 1-2-3?
I'm guessing sometime when he came into a game that we trailed...

by sdesserman on Jul 8, 2006 6:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Pitch Selection
Why are our pitchers getting beat with their 3rd best pitch?  Reyes gives up the homer on a hanging curve and then Wainright hangs a slider/cut fastball to Berkman.  Reyes bigger mistake was walking Ashby.  And why is Reyes' fastball been routinely in the 80's every since the White Sox game?  Oh I forgot, it's better to throw a 2-seamer at 88 than a 4-seamer at 94.  

by lefty fan on Jul 8, 2006 6:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Ashby is
..the Brad Ausmus of the 80s

by salvomania on Jul 8, 2006 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The comeback starts with Scott Spezio
And ends with Gary Bennett?  

Ugh.  That looks twice as rediculous on the screen as it did in my head.  Dammit.

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2006 6:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Though, alternately
Scotty II made up half the deficit.  Rattle the jerk, guys.  Come on, Tony, pinch hit for bennett.

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2006 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

The soul patch
comes through again...

(Sigh) If only someone had gotten on in front of him.

Now Duncan...I smell a K...

"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 6:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, I have been battling a cold...
"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, lidge
hold duncan on.  He's totally running on you.

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2006 6:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Please tell me
Aaron Miles isn't batting.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 6:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Well,
would you rather have Taguchi or Molina batting--they are the last two reserves

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2006 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

UGH
Now it's Miles' job to win the game

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2006 6:58 PM EDT reply actions  

"Whew! Thank God Miles is coming up."
"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Game over
This is retarded.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 6:58 PM EDT reply actions  

AARON F-ING MILES
why tony? why?
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 6:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Miles?
Are you kidding me? Can I bat instead?

by Brownale on Jul 8, 2006 6:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Now we can pinch-hit
with JRod!!--oh wait, he was double-switched for..

But we can pinch-hit with Luna!! Oh , wait, he was double-switched for, too...

by salvomania on Jul 8, 2006 6:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Cards MANAGE another loss
with all the damn pitchers and double switches so we decrease our chance of winning

by Brownale on Jul 8, 2006 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

come one miles
ill take a one fer right here

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 7:00 PM EDT reply actions  

$50 says
Miles whiffs on a bad pitch.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 7:02 PM EDT reply actions  

OH MY GOD
Now he just bought himself another two weeks.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 7:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I LOVE AARON MILES
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 7:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Crap
Now 130-pound So Taguchi is batting.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 7:03 PM EDT reply actions  

he i said
id take that one hit right there..bam

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 7:04 PM EDT reply actions  

MILES!!!
Our new favorite player?

by Big Red on Jul 8, 2006 7:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Well
I feel like an asshole now...

Anybody else? :-D

"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 7:04 PM EDT reply actions  

No
Miles still isn't good enough to be hitting first...

by guayzimi on Jul 8, 2006 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed
he's hitting just over .250.

by nota bene on Jul 8, 2006 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't believe I said that...
"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I only have gameday
but it sure looks like he battled in that ab.  WAY TO AMILES!!!

by sdesserman on Jul 8, 2006 7:04 PM EDT reply actions  

NICE!!!
Guess molina is next.

by riescher on Jul 8, 2006 7:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I take it back
nice to have you on board Miles.

by Brownale on Jul 8, 2006 7:04 PM EDT reply actions  

you-know-who
leads off the 10th....wonder if Garner leaves Lidge in.

by nota bene on Jul 8, 2006 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't matter
Garner should've left Lidge in, because now Oswalt's damaged goods as well.

by rob is back on Jul 8, 2006 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now..
How many pitches does Braden Looper last? 3 or 4?

I bet we see Weaver now.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 7:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Wouldn't it been better....
To keep So on the bench for future innings and bat Molina when he had to go in anyways?

by riescher on Jul 8, 2006 7:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I guess Marquis is available
to hit....but who's catching? Molina?

by nota bene on Jul 8, 2006 7:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Black Out
Thanks to all for the play by play, and good humor.  MLB.NOtv is useless, but at least I don't have to listen to pathetic announcers.  For those of us living by Gameday alone, thanks again.
Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 8, 2006 7:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Good for the team
especially since the fans here deserve the lost. I guess the Cardinals will be known for whining if they can't get back to winning.

by Optimist Prime on Jul 8, 2006 7:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Jason Lane is about to end the game
That's all you need to know.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 7:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Or not.
I think that good Izzy is back.

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2006 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

amen
1-2-3....he looks good for the 10th....

by nota bene on Jul 8, 2006 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

lineup now reads
2B Miles
P Izzy
1B Hombre
3B Rolen
CF Jed
RF Enc
LF Speez
C Molina
SS Eck

So who pitches the top of the 10th (baseball gods disclaimer) if the Astros don't score?

by nota bene on Jul 8, 2006 7:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Should be Weaver
I think Johnson is the only reliever left.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nevermind
I forgot about Hancock. Although I'd rather have Weaver. He hasn't pitched since June 27.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

no no
I meant who pitches for the Astros, since they pinch-hit for Lidge.

by nota bene on Jul 8, 2006 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Come on Al...
make the 'Stros and their fans remember.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 7:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope they play that clip
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can only hope
that Trever Miller is coming in.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 7:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Uh oh
Oswalt? Smart move.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 7:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Oswalt?
Well I guess I wouldn't mind seeing Albert ruin another of their good pitchers.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 7:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Oswalt?
Good move, Garner.  Very good move.

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2006 7:15 PM EDT reply actions  

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 7:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Take that ROY!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Big Red on Jul 8, 2006 7:17 PM EDT reply actions  

I LOVE ALBERT PUJOLS, and to a lesser degree..
aaron miles still gets some love.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 7:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Good God
This is great.
Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 8, 2006 7:18 PM EDT reply actions  

mr oswlat
no soup for you..hey if they hang on this will be a good win, one that has escaped them lately

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 7:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Keep Izzy in?
I say yes, at least till he allows a baserunner.  

I don't think I'll get much agreement

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2006 7:18 PM EDT reply actions  

agreed
who else would they bring in? weaver he hasnt pitched in a bit..but the two inning may knock izzy for sunday

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll agree
I'd rather see him than a cold Weaver, Tyler "I like to walk everyone" Johnson, and Hancock.  I guess I'd take hancock, but Izzy still beat him.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

i'm with you
he got three quick ones in the 9th, he's just fine for a 6-out save (cross fingers, knock on wood, etc)

by nota bene on Jul 8, 2006 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

ap need one
dong tommorrow for 30 before the break

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 7:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Let's not get excited
Ensberg-Berkman-I forgot who is still up.

by ryanisforever on Jul 8, 2006 7:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Weaver
Let's see it!!!
Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 8, 2006 7:20 PM EDT reply actions  

does anyone else
think Izzy should be an all star? i know hes not lights out, but as far as numbers hes tops in NL...hoff has a better era

by punchinjudy on Jul 8, 2006 7:26 PM EDT reply actions  

as good as he gets
way to go Izzy.  one more.
Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 8, 2006 7:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Izzy vs. Preson Wilson
This is feeling like Cardinals baseball again.  Good to have you guys back.

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2006 7:28 PM EDT reply actions  

And maybe
this can be offer us a respite from Izzy-bitching

by Valatan on Jul 8, 2006 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Given the fact that
in his last two appearances, he's retired 10 of the 11 batters he faced including 6 for 6 today.

by sdesserman on Jul 8, 2006 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

That win felt good
Spiezio, Duncan, Miles, Albert, solid save by Izzy.  Nice job boys.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 7:29 PM EDT reply actions  

make that a
WIN by Izzy - came into a tie game.

Man, that was refreshing. And here I was thinking that Kinney was headed for Memphis with an 0-1 record.

by lawman3842 on Jul 8, 2006 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Say good old Mike Shannon would say
"Old Abner Doubleday has done it again"
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 7:29 PM EDT reply actions  

you can't
know joy until you've felt pain.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2006 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

With all due respect to Pu, Speez, et al...
I think I have to take credit for this win.

It was I that reverse-jinxed us by posting that this was the Cardinals' 6th loss in 6 weeks when after having been ahead in agame by mroe than 3 runs---even though it was only the beginning of the 9th.

By posting that, and potentially sacrificing any credibility I have, I showed that I'm willing to give my all, as a fan, for a win.

To the poster who wrote that us whiny fans don't deserve the win, I think he fails to understand the complex psychology and defense mechanisms at play when fans post during a tense game, especially one that occurs within a stretch of ugly and often unwatchable losses.

by salvomania on Jul 8, 2006 7:53 PM EDT reply actions  

God bless you Salvo
:-)
"I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it."

by iron duke75 on Jul 8, 2006 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you should check the overflow thread
Reverend Redbird made an awesome call about the 10th.

by dontEATnachos on Jul 8, 2006 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I, for one
appreciate your potential sacrifice.

by sdesserman on Jul 8, 2006 8:00 PM EDT reply actions  

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