done deals

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 4:19 PM EDT in News Comment 167 comments

congratulations, one and all: you guys overwhelmed SB Nation's servers right at the deadline. and baseball think factory's. and the post-dispatch's. and rotoworld's. and heaven knows how many other sites.

readers 1, internet 0.

not that you missed anything while the servers were down. the deadline has passed with no further moves by the cardinals; the post-waiver period now commences, and jocketty may be active. we shall see.

Update [2006-7-31 16:32:12 by lboros]: spoke too soon: the cardinals acquired jorge sosa, who was DFA'd by the braves, for triple-a reliever rich scalamandre. more in a moment. . . .

here is sosa's career line; he's no good. had a fluke season last year, but a bad player overall. he has yielded 20 homers in 90 innings this season . . . . . i'm not sure what the point was; whose spot on the pitching staff does he take? maybe this is the prelude to another trade -- marquis for somebody . . .

Update [2006-7-31 16:46:3 by lboros]: another frustrating piece of news: the yankees got craig wilson in exchange for shawn chacon, who got bounced from the rotation and (you may recall) was once offered for sidney ponson . . . . . so the yankees got both abreu and c wilson in exchange for a washed-up starter and some grade-C prospects . . . . . but at least we have sosa.[end update]

derrick goold did some nice number-crunching over at birdland to assess ronnie belliard's defense. if i read his post correctly, goold is saying that belliard is about on par with the platoon he is replacing in terms of range, but is likely to make fewer errors --- hence represents a small upgrade with the leather. . . . .

in an earlier post, goold expressed some unvarnished opinions about the deal; he's not a fan. neither is matthew leach, who in today's mailbag weighs in on the belliard trade and has some insight about reyes and the 2-seamer.

if you haven't already read these opinions, danup places the trade within the context of the cards' quixotic quest; disaspora deconstructs the post-trade spin; birdwatch looks at the deal that didn't go down; pip at fungoes runs some numbers; 26th man scolds himself for not realizing that 2b was a bigger problem than the imploding rotation; and the right reverend reads from the fielding bible.

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are you sure...

that nothing went down. I know it's past the deadline, but couldn't it have not been reported yet?

by Toddius396 on Jul 31, 2006 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

dodger get lugo

for 2 minor leaguers

by cards4ever on Jul 31, 2006 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

LA radio

is also reporting that the Dodgers got Maddox and cash for Izturis.

by FunkeeC on Jul 31, 2006 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BIG move, drumroll please

cards get jorge sosa who has more homers than miles and john rodriguez, another marquis on our hands

by cards4ever on Jul 31, 2006 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Just announced

on KFNS...Jorge Sosa from Atlanta to STL for Rich Scalamandre (sp?)

Lookout WS...here we come!!!

by pitchout487 on Jul 31, 2006 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

AL vs NL

I think this is all part of the Cardinals' "Master Plan." They figure the AL is going to destroy any NL squad during the WS, so the Cardinals are taking themselves out of the running this year. Maybe they will make a better run at it the first year the NL actually wins an All-Star game!
:)

by cmat on Jul 31, 2006 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dodgers get Maddux

Don't know if that was up on the previous thread.

Why do the cubs want Izturis? I thought Cedeno was their future.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on Jul 31, 2006 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

They traded Walker

So I imagine that izturis will be playing 2nd.

by FunkeeC on Jul 31, 2006 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe

izturis will play 2b with the trade of todd walker

by cards4ever on Jul 31, 2006 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ss

espn news reported that izturis will play ss and ronny cedeno will play 2b. Seems like the Cubs have been trying to find a way since the offseason to move Cedeno to 2b.

by chuckb on Jul 31, 2006 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wha-wha-whaaat!?

jorge sosa?

this was our big deal? why not acquire about andruw jones? un-freakin'-believable.

maybe I will just go be a Rangers fan, at least their management gave their GM the ability to go out and make some moves to improve the team.

by lopey986 on Jul 31, 2006 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

walt bashers

All the people who will be up in arms about the Cards not getting an impact player need to realize that much of this has to do w/ the Cards lacking depth in the farm system. Who do we have to trade? We've already said (wisely) that Reyes and Wainwright were off-limits. Who else is there?

I've read a lot of people wanting to trade Duncan for Soriano and stuff like that. That's just not realistic. We have some good prospects at lower levels but teams want prospects who can help them sooner rather than later.

I don't think this is about ownership being cheap, either. Maybe they were cheap this offseason but it was unrealistic (and probably, unwise) for us to pursue Abreu. Remember, every team but 1 backed off of Abreu. The last few days, it was all about the Yankees rather than, where would he go.

The bottom line is that our lack of depth in the farm system hurts this time of year and it's going to limit us coming down the stretch. We've done well the last couple of years beefing up the farm system but it's going to be a year or 2 before we start to see the fruits of that labor.

Additionally, if you're going become a "fan" of a team based on how active the GM is in July, you weren't much of a Cards fan to begin with. True fans support their teams in good times and bad. (Not that this is a bad time, we are still in 1st place after all!)

by chuckb on Jul 31, 2006 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i knooow...

just a heat of the moment freak-out. it has been a crazy season.

by lopey986 on Jul 31, 2006 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don't know if it's walt

or if it's the ownership's self-imposed salary cap . . . . but very clearly there were some missed opportunities here. a bunch of outfielders and relievers on the move; the cards are stuck with the same rag-tag staff they've been laboring with the last 3 months.

somebody needs to be bashed; the organization is content with mediocrity, and these fans deserve better dammit.

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Completely Agree

I am glad to see you share my opinion, lboros. In all honesty, I feel personally let down, as if my girlfriend has cheated on me. (Sad as it is, I'm not making that up).

I wonder, what, if anything, can Cards fans do to voice their collective displeasure? I'm sure Bernie will take care of some of that in the Post, but I want the owners to feel what their agenda is doing to Cards fans. I'd like to see them view the Cardinal nation as a responsibility, (try and live up to their expectations) rather than a crutch (rely on them to keep coming to games despite minimal effort to acquire a WS team). I often wonder what would happen if the Cards fans owned the team, kinda like how the Greenbay fans own the Packers.

by Ray Lankford on Jul 31, 2006 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

owners/management...

... read the Stltoday.com boards. if you want them to see your frustration, posting there is free.

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I find that hard to believe

Have you ever looked at that message board? The posters there can barely even speak/write english.

If that is the place where the owners and managment look for feedback, then god help us all. A bunch of hicks starting pissing contests, that's all it is.

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Jul 31, 2006 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don't disagree...

... those boards are stupid.

but Bernie confirmed it yesterday in one of his posts.

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not so sure

Look at what was traded and what the teams received. The Pirates got Xavier Nady for Roberto Hernandez. Maybe they'd have taken Duncan (I doubt it) but we can't afford to trade him w/o getting an OF in return. For Craig Wilson, they got a (mediocre) major league pitcher. We probably could've sent them Pomeranz but they may have wanted one who is there, not 2 years away.

Jeremy Affeldt was traded for Ryan Shealy -- we don't have anyone that close and that good (as Shealy). Stairs (yuck!) was traded. We probably could've had Lohse but does he really help us?

Cormier was traded for a AAA pitcher w/ decent #'s for AAA. We probably could've matched or beaten the offer w/ Tankersley or Narveson but Cormier only agreed to the trade after the Reds extended him for $2.5 million.

The Cormier trade is probably the only one where I agree that something could've/should've been done. Maybe the Phils just liked Germano better than Narveson or Tankersley. As for the other RP's and OF's traded, we just didn't have good enough players or they (Stairs and Lohse) just weren't very good.

Maybe we could've traded an RP for Nady but who? The Mets will never take Looper back. The Pads got Oliver Perez for Linebrink -- do you think they'd have rather had Narveson?

I just don't see where we could've done better, except maybe w/ Cormier (who was the one I wanted anyway so I'm probably biased). I just don't see that we have much to trade unless we decided to trade Marquis. That's a risk but it could've brought back a Craig Wilson-type or a decent RP.

by chuckb on Jul 31, 2006 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Walt's still accountable...

... is he not, for the overall state of the farm system?

Baily

by Baily on Jul 31, 2006 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair point

That's probably a fair point. Some of it is due to the number of prospects we've trade for players in the past. By and large they've been good trades and have helped us win but they've still helped to deplete the farm system.

To the extent that we've had (until a couple of years ago) a series of bad drafts and relatively few prospects coming through the system, I think Walt is responsible. Nevertheless, he was hamstrung this year as a result of the diminshed farm system.

by chuckb on Aug 1, 2006 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't buy that argument

because we have few signs that they've even tried and because everyone in the know (outside of those in the organization itself) seems to believe that they could have done better.

But to add to your argument, it's also difficult to trade prospects and build your farm system at the same time, which is something that they seem to be doing pretty well at this year.

by rob is back on Aug 1, 2006 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan Shealy traded...

To Royals for Jeremy Affeldt according to Colorado Radio...

by lopey986 on Jul 31, 2006 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

maybe you and sosa...

KNOW SOMETHING I DON'T...

the best part of this deal is we can say that line ad nauseam

by sjoshi on Jul 31, 2006 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hmm.

So we still have 6 starting pitchers. What a waste. We could've defitinely used one of them to get an outfielder and still have a solid 5 man staff.

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

damn

i was really looking forward to never seeing marquis pitch for the cards again...i'm pissed, maybe the heilman deal hasn't been announced because they just got two more relievers (well basically one, since sanchez is hurt), they have a ton of RP out in their pen now

by cards4ever on Jul 31, 2006 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Good point

They really don't need Heilman now.

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no...

the mets got 2 new relievers. hernandez and linebrink. heilman is expendable now.

by lopey986 on Jul 31, 2006 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

WTF???

Sosa is the big pitching acquisition? I've officially given up on the front office...

by cardsrul on Jul 31, 2006 4:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

On the plus side. . .

Not an awful K/BB ratio. Haha, Gotta look for at least one positive.

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow

How stupid are the Nationals for not trading Soriano?

by DimitroffVodka on Jul 31, 2006 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hmm i dunno...

given the extra time, it isn't entirely impossible for the Nats to sign him to an extension. If they don't do that, then Bowden screwed the pooch and should be fired immediately.

by lopey986 on Jul 31, 2006 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or

he's taking the Billy Beane approach and saying that the draft picks they'll get if Sori leaves will be worth it.

Although, it's Bowden we're talking about so he was probably just drunk and forgot about the deadline.

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Jul 31, 2006 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

how hard...

does Sosa throw? He doesn't look like a big strikeout guy, what's his stuff like. I've seen him pitch one time, and if I remember correctly he beat the Cardinals.

by Toddius396 on Jul 31, 2006 4:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Heh.

All I can say is I've seen him get smacked around on ESPN!

by sdrone on Jul 31, 2006 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he throws

slop

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maddux and Lugo to Dodgers

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14123455/

by Zubin on Jul 31, 2006 4:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Anybody else see this?

Apparently Craig Wilson was traded to the Yankees for Shawn Chacon. WHAT?!

If this is true, I'll vomit. We could have easily traded Marquis or Weaver for Wilson. With JRod out, it would have been the perfect opportunity.

Here's the link:

Yankees trade Chacon

by jdubya on Jul 31, 2006 4:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Principle...

...the Cardinals made offers to the Pirates earlier and they kept asking for Reyes or Wainwright.

I remember reading somewhere that Walt was frustrated at the stubborness of Pirates GM.

Could very well have been not making a deal on principle.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the pirates

wouldn't deal on principle; or walt wouldn't?

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Walt

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i doubt he's that childish

if he were, he'd be out of a job. or should be.

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's your opinion.

And I think it's wrong.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

defend your opinion

what's to be gained by standing on principle and failing to make a move that helps the team?

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe

they don't think wilson is an upgrade over chris duncan - they are fairly similar players. Poor fielders with some power. Maybe wilson puts up a little higher obp - but how much higher, and is he worth it?

by Toddius396 on Jul 31, 2006 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wilson bats righthanded

Platoon him with J-Rod or Duncan.

by whopperman on Jul 31, 2006 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if the argument is that

they didn't think wilson was an upgrade, that's one thing; that's a defensible position. i might disagree, but they're entitled to their opinions.

if the argument is that they refused to make a trade on principle --- because of dave littlefield's stubbornness or something -- that's something else again. i don't believe that's the case, but that's the suggestion that launched this strand of discussion . . . .

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They are tied together...

...Wilson's usefulness along with Littlefield previous stance.

Was he worth going back again and doing anything other than throwing in a final offer. If the Pirates accept, take it. If they don't, tell them to say it walking.

At a certain point, you loose credibility if you keep haggling with a team that has obviously insulted you with demands in the past.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if they made a final offer

and the pirates rejected it, no complaints. but i have to think walt could've offered better than shawn chacon, whose value to the pittsburgh organization is exactly zero. chacon will play out the string for the pirates this season, then he's gone.

i have to think walt could've beat that offer if he wanted to.

i don't know how it all went down; maybe the cardinals didn't think wilson could help them. maybe littlefield's just a dumb gm. but i don't think walt would foreclose an option because he was in a snit over "insulting" demands by littlefield earlier this year.

i would think, rather than feel insulted by the reyes demand, jocketty just laughed in littlefield's face.

if a gm lets his desire to prove a point get in the way of his desire to upgrade his roster, he's not going to last very long. suppose walt snubs littlefield at the deadline --- he proves a point to a bad gm who is going to get fired soon anyway, but the cardinals go into the postseason with so taguchi as their best rh pinch-hitter.

who gets the last laugh in that exchange? the mets . . . .

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

everyone's asking price tends to get lower and lower as the deadline approaches if they are really lookin' to move someone, and apparently the Pirates really wanted to rid themselves of Wilson. The first time the Pirates countered wanting Wainwright or Reyes, Jock should've put the deal on the shelf until today. Call them up, offer Joe Schmoe...and they are gonna take it because they want to unload Wilson.

Although, Chacon is not exactly cheap, is he?

by lopey986 on Jul 31, 2006 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

divisional trade

the pirates might have wanted more from the cards than the yanks because it was a divisional trade. They wouldn't want their own trade coming back to bite them in the butt now would they?

by Birds on the Matt on Aug 1, 2006 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think

we could have traded almost ANY pitcher in our entire system for Wilson. Chacon is worse than Sir Sid.

by lopey986 on Jul 31, 2006 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Deeply Troubling

I have to think that the Yanks promised to pick up a big part of the tab for Chacon. Either that, or the Pirates couldn't stand to trade within the Division.

Chacon is lousy (7.00 ERA) . Even if Chacon is on contract for next year, I can't imagine he's better than Marquis, who we clearly would have traded for Wilson.

Unless some more info on this deal is revealed, it looks like Walt blew it on this one.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Jul 31, 2006 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

chacon's a free agent

after this season . . . . .

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's official - Wilson for Chacon...

It's on ESPN and NY sports radio just annouced it.

This makes me sick.

I will say this. Maybe the guy in Pittsburgh didn't want to deal in the division. At least that's what I'm telling myself.

by jdubya on Jul 31, 2006 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe so

but i don't see why that would matter . . . . he's not playing for anything this year, and wilson's a free agent and can sign wherever he chooses after this season . . . .

chacon can walk after this year. if the cards had offered a double-a pitching prospect who would remain in the pirates' system for more than 2 months, wouldn't littlefield be crazy not to take it?

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only reasons

I can think of are that they either didn't want Wilson or they didn't expect the Pirates to let him go so cheaply. The latter seems entirely possible, considering the Pirates were trying to strongarm WJ by demanding Reyes or Wainwright, but you'd think that WJ would have been prudent and made another inquiry today, if he really wanted Wilson.

I'm guessing that WJ decided against Wilson, but I still consider it another sign that he's slipping on the job.

by rob is back on Aug 1, 2006 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It looks like

the Birds really are high on Reyes and Wainwright, but the proof is in the pudding. Reyes needs to stay in the rotation, and we'd better start hearing noises from the Cardinals about Wainwright joining him this year or at least next, or else the company line we're hearing is just a cover. Now is the time for Jock to insist that those guys be given every opportunity to succeed; no more deference to LaDuncan on that point.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 31, 2006 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In Jocketty's Defense

I think maybe the wrong players are getting drafted.

I don't feel like Jocketty has ever gotten killed on a deal - where a prospect really ends up being a star that he shouldn't have traded away. We got Dennis Eckersly for Jeff Montgomery. Mark McGwire for TJ Mathews. The Mulder trade is controversial, but Haren is really struggling right now, Barton isn't in the bigs and is thought to have too little power to start at 1B in the majors, and I miss kiko, but he's no closer. Bud Smith isn't in the big leagues. Polanco is a good player, but not as good as Scott Rolen. Mike Timlin is a pretty good set up guy with the BoSox, but we brought in an allstar when those guys left. Walt wins in his deals. Adam Kennedy is a big leaguer - but will soon lose his position to howie kendrick, who is better in every way. Where the heck is kent bottenfield? Braden Looper...he's back on the team and is a decent player. He belongs in the big leagues. But I would call him a decent player.

If our farm system is so depleted from deals, where did they all go? They aren't making the big leagues, that's for sure. Where are these great players Walt pissed away? They were never there to begin with.

by Toddius396 on Jul 31, 2006 4:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

That's ultimately his responsibility also.

by whopperman on Jul 31, 2006 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't be naive

if we still had Manny Aybar and Donovan Osborne, we wouldn't have any rotation problems right now, we'd have a big 3 for the playoffs.

or something

by Valatan on Jul 31, 2006 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

forgot Coco Crisp...

... he was part of the Renteria-fer-Looper deal, wasn't he?

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

he was traded for Chuck Finley

by Valatan on Jul 31, 2006 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

chucky finley

coco was traded for chuck finley in '02. that is one where walt was bitch slapped to bangkok

Albert Pujols is god with a lowercase "g". Let's go Redbirds, World Series '06 here we come!

by stlsportsfan on Jul 31, 2006 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Part of me...

Wants the Reds to catch us and for us not to make the playoffs. Teach these penny pinching lyings owners that you have spend the money that the fans put into the team to make more money. I really hope the rotation continues to suck and give up 6 runs per game. The Reds and Dodgers both made moves to improve the team while we made a token trade so the Owners can say that we made a deal that added payroll at the deadline. This is complete bullshit. To hell with DeWitt.

by BigMac545 on Jul 31, 2006 4:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

I wouldn't go that far. We have a good team, and I'm pretty sure Walt realized that. While I agree, we really blew it here. We have 6 starting pitchers with 4 being free agents. Trading one wouldn't have hurt at all. . . But then again who knows. . . the Shawn Green rumors are still afloat, and I remember them wanting Marquis at the beginning of the year. So maybe we trade for Shawn Green early August, have a set 5-man roation, and then in the offseason work our asses off to get D-Train. Maybe the Marlins just want to see how Dunc and Reyes do the rest of the season. Is that a possibility?

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Owners...

Won't add the money of Shawn Green. He makes over 8 million dollars this year. Plus Hitting isn't really the problem. Duncan has been good since he has been getting regular time in the line up. we needed to go out and get mike Gonzalez... not Sosa... or go and get Jason Schmidt or someone like that. I have NO faith in these owners at all. They have lied to us over and over again about adding payroll. They originally said they would add payroll once the new stadium was built. Then they said they would be willing to add payroll at the deadline... and they lied about that too. I'm sick of hearing all this crap... getting my hopes us that we are acutally gonna do what it takes to get over the hump only to see that Sosa and Belliard are our big season changing deals. I'm willing to bet that Walt had a few deals in place that the owners shot down over money... Much like the deal what would have sent Marquis and Suppan to Arizona for Javier Vasquez and Carlos Quentin over the winter. What I wouldn't give to have those two right now...

by BigMac545 on Jul 31, 2006 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno.

They might add Green because if they lose a pitcher, Marquis for example, the payment will equal out in the long run. I mean I could be wrong, but I'm just saying I wouldn't doubt if it was done.

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jason Schmidt.

What is the fascination with this guy? I mean, I know he's a great pitcher and all, but why are we so up in arms to trade for an injury-prone 33 year old who makes $10.5 million a year who isn't quite the pitcher he was 4-5 years ago? I'm all about taking risks and all, but that sounds like quite the risk.

On the other hand, I would have welcomed it in the short term.

by matt reeder on Jul 31, 2006 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sosa

if memory serves, sosa is a converted outfielder (hence his reliance on the fastball... strong outfield arm). maybe walt hopes to change him back. if not, well, how badly do we really need another pitcher with a 5.something ERA?

Rabid Redbird

by gthedamned on Jul 31, 2006 5:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Walt from the War Room...

..per Bernie

1. Sosa will be exclusively in the BP. Jerry Walker went and watched Sosa last week and said he was throwing 93-96 consistently. Randy speculates that Sosa will replace Kinney, although maybe Wainwright can go to the rotation.

Cards were not in the hunt for anything big. Were having talks with Pittsburgh (likely for Wells or Wilson or Hernandez). Talked to Baltimore about Benson, Lopez and Conine. But nothing matched up. Apparantly, though, we were not in the hunt for Soriano, etc.
Cards will be looking to make a waiver move. WJ implied that AZ would have to eat some of Green's contract for them to pick him up.
Belliard - WJ have already spoken to his agent about signing him to an extension. But they are going to wait and see how he performs. Belliard's agent is also Luna's agent and Albert's agent. So a relationship exists. They are going to try to sign him.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 5:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I know

I can be the devils advocate but Im not all that opposed to Sosa. I also realize the plan is to put him in the pen. However, his 2003-05 splits as a starer weren't awful.

258 IP, 163 K's. 3.90 ERA, 1.448 WHIP, .262 opponent average.

He throws hard and strikes some guys out. Im not opposed to this trade.

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Jul 31, 2006 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention

We gave up basically nothing for him. Sorry, Rich.

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if they can sign Belliard...

... then the deal makes a lot more sense. i didn't know he had the same agent as Pujols. maybe it can be worked out.

i had a feeling nothing big was going to go down. there just wasn't any moves to make. a Wilson move would've been nice, not just for a platoon but also because we'd have a legitimate power threat off the bench no matter who starts in LF (Dunc vs. Wilson). haven't had one of those since Eduardo Perez.

i'm pretty happy that the Astros didn't get Soriano or Tejada. they're done. the Reds didn't improve enough to overtake us (unless Pujols is out for awhile).

this isn't a horrible thing... we've kept Wainwright and Reyes, kept Rasmus and our other prospects, and we've got a good enough team to win the division and contend for the World Series. we've done fine against the Mets head-to-head this season, and Pedro, Glavine, and Trachsel all tend to fade late in seasons. i think we've still got a decent shot at getting to the World Series.

no real chance to actually win it, of course. but there wasn't a feasible deal for us to make that would really make us W.S. contenders. i'd be satisfied with another division/NL pennant... it's about all we can expect.

there are a lot of big-time free agents out there next season. here's hoping we get a few.

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Big Time free agents...

Cost big time money... so who is going to pay for them? The Owners certainly arent... remember they have the stadium to pay off so they can't spend the money on the team right now... even thou they promised that they would after we moved into the new Busch. You know... the Payroll this year is actually 3-4 million dollars LESS than is was last year. DeWitt is an asshole.

by BigMac545 on Jul 31, 2006 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

they were gonna give Burnett 11 mil...

... i'd expect that there's some money for a Schmidt or a Zito or somebody like that.

plus, less money to Edmonds, none to Mulder, none to Marquis, none to Weaver, none to Spivey, none to Bigbie, none to Miles, none to Perez.

there's money to spend. let's just hope they spend it.

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They will spend it...

On teh stadium they already built... it still has to be paid off dont you know

by BigMac545 on Jul 31, 2006 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we had a belliard

for about 1/10 of the salary it'll take to resign Belliard. His name is Hector Luna. Same player, less $.

Belliard doesn't need to be resigned to justify this trade. In fact, now that Luna's gone, I'd like to get to the offseason to see if we can do better.

by chuckb on Jul 31, 2006 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don't like the trade either...

... but i'll like it even less if we end up with Miles again next year.

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, all of Walt's best deals come in August...

there's still time.

by craig3410 on Jul 31, 2006 5:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't players have to clear waivers

before they can be traded now? If so, then the only player I can think of is Green and I'd prefer that we passed on Green.

by rob is back on Aug 1, 2006 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What we need...

Is starting pitching... there isnt going to be any of that available on the wavier wire... we don't need Shawn Green.

by BigMac545 on Jul 31, 2006 5:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well . . .

We could have used Shawn Green in 1999 or 2000, but not now. He's old, washed up, and I'd rather let Duncan play left field for his power and to give him experience.

by Ray Lankford on Jul 31, 2006 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

by FunkeeC on Jul 31, 2006 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I second that

or third it or whatever.

by effin fisk on Jul 31, 2006 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know...

I could see Duncan's numbers drop rapidly his second time through the league.

by Valatan on Jul 31, 2006 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Based on what?

His plate discipline is better than that of Enc and Jimmy right now. Unless he changes philosophy, it's not like he's going to stop watching or fouling off bad pitches.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aside from Pujols and Ichiro,

Every rookie I've ever seen has gone through a slump during their second time through the league. Some of them adjust to it, some of them don't.

by Valatan on Jul 31, 2006 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Question

Don't know if this has been asked yet, but....

Who's our backup SS?

by Big Red on Jul 31, 2006 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

miles

gag, cough, vomit

by azruavatar on Jul 31, 2006 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jason Marquis...

...hey, why not?

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Amazing

Aaron Miles

by Cardinal70 on Jul 31, 2006 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is all bullshit

we deserved better at the deadline.

This team needed an upgrade, had the payroll flexibility b/c the didn't make a move in the offseason ... and now they've done nothing.

What happened to that 10 million a season they offered Burnett? Why can't we use that for an upgrade?

this is crap. we missed the little upgrades: wilson, betemit, keeping luna, middle relievers that changed hands...

and didn't acquire the big bat/arm that we should have.

this is unacceptable

by azruavatar on Jul 31, 2006 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Our backup SS is Miles

I just threw up in my mouth!

by Pujols4Pres on Jul 31, 2006 5:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What I dont understand...

is with the Pirates giving people away from almost nothing why we couldn't have gotten Mike Gonzalez. He would have instantly been the best LH arm in the pen and probably would have been the second best arm after Izzy. He has shown taht he can close... so he could have been an option after Izzy moves on. This is crazy. We could have traded for him just as easily as the Yankees got Craig Wilson.

by BigMac545 on Jul 31, 2006 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Gonzalez

He's part of yet another plan for the future for the Pirates. He's a cheap, young, closer. They don't go easily.

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gonzalez is cheap

and locked up for a few years, and their best reliever. Wilson was a FA at the end of the year. Gonzalez would have taken much, much more to get.

by Pujols4Pres on Jul 31, 2006 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i'll bet...

... that Wainwright ends up in the rotation, esp. if Sosa is anywhere near decent in the pen.

then we've got a playoff rotation like so:

Carpenter
Mulder
Reyes
Wainwright

with Suppan, Marquis, Weaver as insurance.

pretty much what we've all wanted all year. can't complain too much with that.

if that is what ends up happening, of course.

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Reyes...

would be good if TLR and Dunc actually let him pitch the way he wants... oh thats right he needs to pitch to contact... which is clearly better. Who wouldn't want a 6+ ERA over a 2 something era so long as the pitcher has a better ground ball to fly ball ratio?

by BigMac545 on Jul 31, 2006 5:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

wow

Does this tune ever get old?

SUBURBS: Where Americans cut down trees and then name streets after them.

by beanocook on Jul 31, 2006 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

beanocook you can't silence the truth

the heavens have parted and a single ray of light shines down onto the cardinals chosen one. Socks to his knees he looks up to the light as a voice rings from the clouds, "And he shall be blameless. May he take the mantle of a groundball pitcher upon himself. May he throw the 2 seamer w/o end. For all eternity. amen."

And the ground shall shake, and the earth will rumble and there will be great distress among the redbird nation. They shall call for blood. Though he walks through the shadow of mediocrity, he shall yet be blameless for he is chosen above all others to be perfect upon arrival regardless of age, ability and stats.

I still think DD is messing with Kid Reyes but it's purely academic at this point. Nothing we say has any impact on the real situation. Might as well let this one go...especially when I can be pissed that we didn't even make the moderate upgrades that would have helped this club.

by azruavatar on Jul 31, 2006 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

beano, your little jingle

of "tony and dave can do no wrong" isn't exactly the freshest melody on the internet either . . . .

by lboros on Jul 31, 2006 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, great...

... now I've got THAT stuck in my head. Thanks a bunch, LBoros. ;-)

by punditmoi on Jul 31, 2006 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Demoralized

They open a new stadium with new luxury boxes that create more revenue. This new stadium has fewer seats for us, costs more for us to get into, has more expensive food, and a not-quite-Busch-II atmosphere. In addition, they got their radio station which means that I can no longer hear the Cardinals in parts of the state where I always could when traveling.

They repay us with a Cold Stove offseason that featured the dump of Grudz and Reggie (who has proved that he did not deserve a multi-year deal) and Juan Encarnacion as our "core" signing withthe footnote to the signing that not spending on an impact bat is okay because they are maintaining financial flexibility to add a player in midseason.

And now here we sit, with out expensive tickets for the smaller ballpark, with the playoffs in doubt, and a pennant, let alone a World Series title, seeming like a distant memory.

I'm demoralized right now, yet hope is all we have on which to hang out hat. Hope that Mulder comes back to 2005 form by October. Hope that Jeff Weaver comes back to 2005 form soon. Hope than Anthony Reyes can learn a two-seamer or TLR/Duncan can learn to live with high four-seam heat. Hope that Jimmy continues his resurrection. Hope the Young Duncan continues to mature and produce while doing so.

This offseason will be one of change. Hopefully, it is one of change for the better.

by bgh on Jul 31, 2006 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This

offseason is going to be horrible.

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Jul 31, 2006 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

on the bright side

we don't have to face Maddox for the rest of the year, nor do we have to listen to national broadcast crews crawl around in his butthole.

what, too graphic?

by effin fisk on Jul 31, 2006 5:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

haha

I thought that was graphic, but hilarious.

by Ray Lankford on Jul 31, 2006 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unless the Dodgers make the playoffs...

They are in last place but still in the west division hunt. Unbelievable.

We could play them in the first round. Maddox would probably be the 3rd starter behind Penny and Lowe.

by jdubya on Jul 31, 2006 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ESPN's "voice of the fan"

Maybe this is our way to be heard.

by effin fisk on Jul 31, 2006 5:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well. . .

Tomorrow's a new day. At least we get to start back up against a picked apart Phillies team. . .

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

maybe Walt got confused

He heard the name Sosa, it sounded familiar from 1998 or so, and so he jumped at the chance to pick up an OF impact bat for the second half.

He's gonna flip when he finds out it's not THAT Sosa. (Not that I'd want him)

by effin fisk on Jul 31, 2006 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Green?

Is it just me or does anyone else think Luis Gonzalez would be a better post-deadline acquisition than Shawn Green?

Their stats lines are very similar (Gonzalez has better OBP and power, Green's hitting better for avg.) and they're both left-handed, but Gonzalez has a lot more experience, especially in the post-season.

Also, Gonzalez is in a much more favorable situation contract-wise. Gonzo has a club option for next year at $10M, which the Cards would probably have to pick up. Green is signed for next year at $9.5M and has a mutual option for '08 at $10M (w/ a $2M buyout), which I keep hearing the Cards might have to pick up to get him to waive his no trade.

Do you think Gonzo has said he won't waive his no trade for the Cards? Or is it that the D-Backs are anxious to get rid of Green so they'll pick up a big chunk of his remaining salary?

by punditmoi on Jul 31, 2006 7:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

I've heard Gonzo is a huge clubhouse presence for them. And neither he nor the team wants him to leave.

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would love Gonzo...

Carlos Quintin is the future in AZ. Gonzo knows it and AZ knows it. Quintin is already mashing the ball. It has been said the the local media that AZ will not pick up Gonzo's 2007 option, so they should trade him for something in return. Mgmt is saying that they want to keep him for 2006. Go figure.

Gonzo is a great clubhouse guy and a leader. He can still hit (hitting .385/.440/.692 in July). The Cards should go after him. I think Gonzo would waive he no trade clause for the Cards because they are contending and he could play for a winner. If the Cards have to pick up his option, then do it.

IMO, Gonzo would be a much better pickup than Green. One problem is that AZ is in the hunt for the west division (isn't everybody?). That could mean that they would want a major league player or someone who could step in and play right away. Marquis and ?

by jdubya on Jul 31, 2006 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Luna...

... DEEP double to dead center at Fenway in 1st AL AB... about 5/6 the way up the wall below the camera well... off of Wells.

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

wow you must really being into

the self torture kinda thing to be posting comments like that...

It's sad that we couldn't have just given Luna the starting position like he deserved...

by azruavatar on Jul 31, 2006 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Crap

I forgot that Luna was playing already.

by ryanisforever on Jul 31, 2006 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

coupla good defensive plays as well...

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Luna...

It's sad to see him in anything but a Cards uniform. That was a blast he hit off the CF wall, he did make an error in the infield the next half inning (Not sure if it was ruled an error, because he dove, but he should've had it)

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jul 31, 2006 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Luna

Let's just say it was an error so I'll stay sane.

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it was a good play...

... tough diving chance with a runner on 1st and no outs. he knocked out down and kept the runner from going to 3rd.

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not really

It was a rather easy play. The ball wasn't hit that hard and he had his whole glove on it, no reason not to come up with it.

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jul 31, 2006 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Craig WIlson

The whole Craig Wilson deal makes me sick. We could of used some depth with Pujols and his elbow. We shold of traded Sosa for him.

by DimitroffVodka on Jul 31, 2006 8:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

luna

Bad timing here. We have no speed and Eck needs time off. He has been hurting.
Once again, on a team that needs a star to win, we come up with small market replacement parts.
Lugo was available. Does anyone notice that the team stolen base leader is So!
Playoff base ball is very much about manufacturing runs. We need to be lucky with our pitching staff to win. This last Sunday, the amusing Joe Morgan was saying we needed pitching. True enough, but if Mulder isn't healthy, Marquis and Suppan aren't hot we are going to lose anyway. It is the sink hole ab's at catcher, left and 2nd base that will make the difference between winning 3 to 2 and losing 2 to 1 in the playoffs.
Just an odd trading deadline. Soriano staying put.
i think the Pirates are tired of the Cards picking their pockets, Craig Wilson would have been helpful with Albert hurting as well.

by scott tracy on Jul 31, 2006 8:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

question

when did the cards last pick the pirates pockets. i think it was the cubs taht they traded half their team to in '02 if i remember correctly.

Albert Pujols is god with a lowercase "g". Let's go Redbirds, World Series '06 here we come!

by stlsportsfan on Jul 31, 2006 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stratospheric WPA

Jorge Sosa has a WPA of -176.

I thought I must be looking at a typo so I searched for compatriates with such rarified numbers. He is joined by a select few including the illustrious Esteban Loaiza, Josh Towers, Seth McClung, Rodrigo Lopez, Carlos Silva, oh and one Jeff Weaver.

Next we'll see a quote from WJ that this was the best arm they could get!

I think I'll watch the Indians.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 31, 2006 8:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Just got off work

and hear about the move for Sosa. What's his contract situation like?

And to the person who said this offseason is going to be hell. Why is that??

by stltrav09 on Jul 31, 2006 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My guess

I have a feeling it's just a result of the negative vibe today in Cardinal nation.

by aet15 on Jul 31, 2006 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Contract

Looks like Sosa signed his 5th straight 1-year contract ($2.2M + $50K in incentives) for 2006. I think the Cards will still controll his destiny next year, but he'll be arbitration eligible.

by punditmoi on Jul 31, 2006 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correction on WPA

His YTD Win Probability Added is much worse than you posted. -176 is just for his starting contribution; his total for the year is -312.2 if you include his closing debacle. I think the only player who is worse this season is Ronny Cedeno, that is if you leave out his stats against the Cardinals.

by Solanus on Aug 1, 2006 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh

Just got an email from stlcardinals.com

Subject: "Cards Bolster Bullpen Before Trade Deadline"

Friggin' spin doctors.

by Big Red on Jul 31, 2006 8:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

HAHAHA

Cards bolster bullpen before trade deadline

The Cardinals made a move to bolster their bullpen at the Trade Deadline on Monday, acquiring RHP Jorge Sosa from the Braves for Minor League reliever Rich Scalamandre. Sosa, 28, has gone 3-10 with a 5.46 ERA in 26 games (13 starts) for the Braves in 2006, following a 13-3, 2.55 ERA season in 2005. As a reliever, he has gone 2-2 with three saves and a 5.19 ERA this season.

gee, way to bolster it with that 5.46 ERA. but hey! in relief he has a 5.19 ERA!

by lopey986 on Jul 31, 2006 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Casey Blake...

Wish we could've got the Indians to throw in him as well. He would make a nice LF for us.

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jul 31, 2006 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bah

Lets trade away everyone but Pujols, Reyes, Wainright, and Duncan, fire TLR, and somehow get Dewitt to sell the team to Bill Gates.

by TNFan32 on Jul 31, 2006 9:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Mark Cuban

is looking for a team to buy, plus he has more money than God(no, I don't mean Pujols).

by cardsrul on Jul 31, 2006 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pujols is "a" god

Not "the" god or God.

This isn't a religious issue. He just hasn't played ten years, so he isn't eligible.

by Solanus on Aug 1, 2006 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pathetic...

Swept by the Cubs and all of a sudden we're the worse team in baseball. I thought St. Louis had the "best fans in baseball."

by stltrav09 on Jul 31, 2006 9:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not the worst team...

the most frustrating team. And I never bought into that "best fans in baseball" crap...

by cardsrul on Jul 31, 2006 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nah

We aren't the worst team..... we just have one of the worst owners.

by TNFan32 on Jul 31, 2006 9:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I take that back

We don't even have one of the worst owners, it stems from us having the worst farm system.

Maybe we should be investing in some better scouts or development coaches?

by TNFan32 on Jul 31, 2006 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I won't argue that..

... but it's no reason to give up hope on this years team. This team is gonna give it their best and I believe they will be right up there fighting for a World Series trip once again.

by stltrav09 on Jul 31, 2006 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

J. Sosa? Are you kidding me?

Here's a pitcher who lost his job as a starter, then lost his job as a middle reliever and then lost his job as a set-up man for Atlanta, a team with a much worse pitching overall than St. Louis. Exactly how does this clown "bolster" the bullpen? Does anybody really think he'll be on the postseason roster? If he is, Cards are in worse shape than I thought. I think I'm in post-trade deadline depression.

Baily

by Baily on Jul 31, 2006 10:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I guess

I guess Kinney will get called down but who knows?

What ever happened to Brad Thompson too?

by DimitroffVodka on Jul 31, 2006 10:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thompson is in AAA

I hope Kinney stays. He has looked good lately. However, I don't know who else they would send down besides him..

by stltrav09 on Jul 31, 2006 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ortiz Again

Great game as Ortiz' walk-off scalps the Indians.

Luna goes 1-4 with his 15th double and a run scored batting 7th for the Tribe.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 31, 2006 10:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ortiz gets the benefit of being pitched to...

...why they pitched to him in that situation, I'll never know.

Albert would have been walked and Rolen would have batted with the bases loaded.

Eric Wedge is an idiot.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 31, 2006 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No disrespect to Rolen, but

Scotty is no Manny Ramirez. If it wasn't for Albert & Alex Rodriguez, we'd be talking about him as maybe the best right-handed hitter of this generation.

by Solanus on Aug 1, 2006 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Days End

At least the day ends with the Cubs getting pummeled at Wrigley. Put it to them Snakes.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 31, 2006 10:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hey, Ortiz gives me a thought ...

We could put Prince Albert in the DH slot, move Duncan to first base where he feels more comfortable, and then Rodriguez can play everyday to recover that power stroke from last y-

Oh, yeah. Forgot.

In the AL you get 27 outs to score your runs, not 22 or 23.

It's bad luck to be superstitious.

by red menace on Jul 31, 2006 10:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

my question...

... why do we keep trading guys and paying higher salary for Weaver/Sosa when we could just wait a week until their release and (most likely) get them for nothing. perhaps they get claimed before we get a chance at them, but i doubt it. and if so, who cares? these guys suck anyway.

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

because we needed to BOLSTER the staff

You can't be in the headlines at the deadline unless you play the give-away game. At this point I wish we had played like the Phillies and were net sellers. Look how much money they will save. Amongst owners, they were the big winners this year.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 31, 2006 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh Lord

Don't give DeWitt any ideas about saving money, I'm afraid what he would do if he started trying.... or has he already...

The movie Major League ring a bell??? lol...

by TNFan32 on Jul 31, 2006 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't even

kid about that.

R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Jul 31, 2006 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who plays what part?

Who gets to be ricky vaughn?

by TNFan32 on Jul 31, 2006 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did they sell the Urinals in that one?

What do you mean don't give them any ideas.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 31, 2006 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good question..

As probably everyone else here, I hadn't even heard that Sosa was DFA'd. I doubt anybody was going to claim him, so why not wait and sign him for league minimum in a week?

However, except for the "Why not wait?" part, I have no complaints about this trade per se. I wish we had done more, yes, but we got Sosa for, practically, nothing and he might end up helping. If not, we didn't give up much.

A quick question, somewhere up dairy someone said we wouldn't have to pay Bigbie next year. Is he a FA after this year? I thought he was still under team control for a year or two.

by ArkansasTravs on Jul 31, 2006 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, but...

... i agree that we haven't given up much for Weaver/Sosa, but we are taking on an addition 3 million or so in salary from those two. add that to Perez and Belliard and we've spent about 5 million (maybe more) on junk or marginal upgrades.

that 5 million could have been spent much, much better, either in the offseason or now: knock 5 mil off of Abreu's salary, or Burrell's, get Philly to eat some of it, and the deal becomes pretty affordable. trade them the two middling prospects we gave up for Weaver and Sosa plus one or two other extraneous pieces, and it looks like an impact move.

plus we save more over the next 4 years when we are paying Luna league minimum for league average production (or better?).

i mean, it can't be that simple. someone please explain to me where i'm wrong.

by kindred on Jul 31, 2006 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ironically

Right before I read your post I was thinking how they seem to be making trades just so they could say that they tried. I don't think that has been their intention, but I imagine it played into their decisions when things didn't work out as planned.

I mean, who would've thought this time last year that our next additions would be Bigbie, Spivey, Rincon, Perez, Sosa, Miles, Belliard, Encarnacion, Looper, Hancock, Ponson and a slumping Weaver? Obviously, some of those players didn't turn out as expected, but shouldn't that reflect poorly on management as well?

Burnett seems like a distant memory, but perhaps even more important is that their pursuit of Burnett is the only memory I have of an attempt to upgrade the roster.

by rob is back on Aug 1, 2006 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs