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Game 81 Open Thread: July 3, 2006


reyes                 smoltz
1-2, 2.16            4-5, 3.73

i love matchups like this one. when john smoltz started his first playoff game back in 1991, anthony reyes wasn't quite 10 years old; and at this moment, somewhere out there in the (probably) western hemisphere, there's a 10-year-old kid who might get to pitch against anthony reyes in 2021. ring out the old, ring in the new . . .  

but the youth-vs-age trope runs only skin deep. from an organizational perspective, the cardinals seem depressingly close in age to the braves, whose endless prime has finally passed. atlanta is built around players who are closer to the end than the beginning, and while st louis hasn't quite got there yet (thank you albert), age (edmonds, izzy) and free-agency (the pitch-to-contact 4) may -- sooner than we'd like -- dump the cardinals into the same type of trough atlanta has found.

since the three-division format began, at least one of these two teams has played in every nlcs except one -- the 2003 series (florida vs chicago). if that era isn't over already, it's up to the cardinals -- and, to a great extent, young mr reyes -- to say so.

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lineups
 SS  Eckstein, David
 LF  Duncan, Chris
 1B  Pujols, Albert
 3B  Rolen, Scott
 CF  Edmonds, Jim
 RF  Encarnacion, Juan
  C  Molina, Yadier
 2B  Miles, Aaron
  P  Reyes, Anthony

 2B  Giles, Marcus
 SS  Renteria, Edgar
 3B  Jones, Chipper
 CF  Jones, Andruw
  C  McCann, Brian
 RF  Francoeur, Jeff
 1B  LaRoche, Adam
 LF  Langerhans, Ryan
  P  Smoltz, John

Duncan obviously is back. Anyone know what the second half of the roster move was?

DCGreg

by DCGreg on Jul 3, 2006 5:41 PM EDT reply actions  

They couldn't have possibly
made the Wainwright transaction today?

by Valatan on Jul 3, 2006 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why Miles?
Come on Tony, Come On.  I mean you have to realize he sucks since you are batting him behind Molina.  Why even bother putting him in the line-up.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 3, 2006 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

doesn't make much sense to me
Miles .230/.275/.324 in June
Miles .261/.331/.332 for the Season
Luna .299/.349/.390 in June
Luna .315/.365/.438 for the Season

by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2006 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thompson
Brad Thompson was sent down.

by roebirds on Jul 3, 2006 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thompson
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Thompson never been at AAA.  I know he was in AA starting and then he made our bullpen out of spring training last year.  Hopefully some time at AAA will get him back into form.  He was really an asset to our 'pen last year and he's cheap too.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 3, 2006 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

He spent a few innings in AAA
before getting hurt, after his scoreless innings streak. But for all intents and purposes you're right.

by DanUpBaby on Jul 3, 2006 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm going to take a wild stab...
...and guess this is the first time in Chris Duncan's life he's batted second in the lineup. This "damage" theory of TLR's is almost as bad as when he first came over and was adamant about batting the pitcher at No. 8. I've supported TLR in the past, but he's starting to wear on me.  
Baily

by Baily on Jul 3, 2006 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you serious?
You don't believe in the "damage" theory?

Do you also believe the Cardinals should start bunting and stealing more bases?

by ryanisforever on Jul 3, 2006 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know some like it
but I agree with you. We don't have many alternatives than Duncan or Edmonds, but I'd replace Miles with Luna and let him bat 2nd every day. Rodriguez was good when he was hitting, and IIRC, we played our best games of the year while Rodriguez was hitting while batting 2nd. But he looks awful now and Luna, with his 2.1% GIDP percentage and base-running speed, seems like the best choice to bat 2nd to me.

by rob is back on Jul 3, 2006 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

CIN just lost
We could make up some lost ground today...

by SleepyCA on Jul 3, 2006 6:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Make up ground?
I thought we were in first place?

:)

by Big Red on Jul 3, 2006 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

the Reds lost
in Cardinals style, by blowing multiple leads to include a bottom-of-the-ninth one-run advantage. Four consecutive singles in the 9th to score the tie and winning runs.

by lawman3842 on Jul 3, 2006 6:03 PM EDT reply actions  

yep, it's 2003
alright. sloppy baseball up n down the division

by lboros on Jul 3, 2006 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Calming effect
Somehow, it made me feel a little better to see Turnbow and Coffey take turns blowing saves.  It made me feel a little better about Izzy.

by punditmoi on Jul 3, 2006 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

"The Pitch-to-Contact Four"
LMAO...
"First of all, let's be real friendly here okay? My name is Norm. Secondly, your coaching days are over."

by iron duke75 on Jul 3, 2006 6:07 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm glad Duncan is back...
...but I don't know if throwing him into LF right off the bat is a good idea. Was he working on this after going back down to Memphis?

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2006 6:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Chris Duncan
Duncan played RF the other night for Memphis versus the ABQ Isotopes. I'm assuming that's his 'natural' outfield position, as John Gall was in LF and Skip Schumaker was in CF. Daubach played 1B that night.
"I'm the player to be named later." - Crash Davis (Kevin Costner)

by player2bnamedl8r on Jul 3, 2006 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

International Signing Day
here is a link to contracts top Latino Prospects signed with clubs other than the Cardinals...

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/news/261870.html

...seems like maybe the Cards should take a page out of the Nationals book and make a big splash to get other Latino prospects attention.  The Red Sox and Yankees (surprise surprise) also cleaned up with talented prospects.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 3, 2006 6:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Other half of Duncan transaction
Appears Jock finally pulled the trigger on Brad Thompson - he lost in the Duncan call-up sweepstakes.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/transactions

by jomfa on Jul 3, 2006 6:35 PM EDT reply actions  

The Cards now have
A Dominican program and lots of money aimed towards snagging some of this south of the border talent. Let's hope it pays off.

by Pujols4Pres on Jul 3, 2006 7:12 PM EDT reply actions  

I noticed Renteria
in the 2 hole. Didn't he have problems with that when he was here? I seem to remember him hating the 2 hole and not producing very well in that spot.

Has he been there all year for the Braves? He's obviously having a good year.

by Pujols4Pres on Jul 3, 2006 7:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Why I am posting here
rather than managing.

I was fuming over the decision to pitch around Jones and load the bases with less than two outs, and was about to post something angry.

I still don't like it.

Bah.

by Intheway on Jul 3, 2006 7:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Interesting AA matchup today:
Blake Hawksworth takes on... Zack Grienke.

by DanUpBaby on Jul 3, 2006 7:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Rick Sutcliffe
Sutcliffe has obviously not watched the Cards much if he thinks the Cards would still be in contention without Pujols this year.

by stlnd on Jul 3, 2006 7:42 PM EDT reply actions  

They could be...
...if they had pitching.  But in general, Sutcliffe is an idiot.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2006 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember him saying last year
the first time he did a Cards game, that he thought Eck had arm trouble because of the way he throws...

by cardsrul on Jul 3, 2006 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

atta boy Albert
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 3, 2006 7:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Man, he pounds the snot out of Smoltz.
I don't know what exactly the numbers are, but it seems like every game he has against him he's got a couple extra base hits.

by BTown Birds fan on Jul 3, 2006 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

7-14, 3 HR, 5 RBI
I thought it would have been more AB. Shows how little I know....

by BTown Birds fan on Jul 3, 2006 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

probably b/c...
smoltz was a closer for alberts first few years.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 3, 2006 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pujols
He definately appears to be feeling better, which is good to see. I'm still worried about him aggravating that injury, guess I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed.

by FunkeeC on Jul 3, 2006 7:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Rain Delay News - Rasmus to Palm Beach
FYI, Colby Rasmus was sent to Palm Beach. Here's the link:

http://www.swingbaseball.com/?entry=1936

IMHO, Do not trade Rasmus. For once, let's develop a player, bring him up through the system and see if we have something.

by jdubya on Jul 3, 2006 8:25 PM EDT reply actions  

i agree...
... and we'll be needing a new CF in the next few years.

by kindred on Jul 3, 2006 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

dang it
I was just going to make the drive to Davenport to watch him play. Oh, well I caught him earlier this season when they visited CR, IA.

by erik on Jul 4, 2006 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

BTW...
I think I've found a broadcast team almost as bad as Harrelson and DJ... Bob Rathbun and Jeff Torborg.

by cardsrul on Jul 3, 2006 8:56 PM EDT reply actions  

well
At least A. Jones didn't hit a home run.

by SleepyCA on Jul 3, 2006 9:02 PM EDT reply actions  

man, it seems like reyes
is getting somewhat shelled, at least from the box score.

by brock on Jul 3, 2006 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cards Prospects
John Sickles over at minorleagueball.com just put up a Mid-Season review piece on the Cards Pre-Season top 20 prospects.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2006/7/3/20565/56191

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 3, 2006 9:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Kinney
looked good on that pitch...NOT, maybe baby-face was better.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 3, 2006 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

You could see him
calculating how long the bus ride back to Memphis would be, as he watched it fly.

poor guy.

by SleepyCA on Jul 3, 2006 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hope you didn't want cream with that coffee
...I don't know if that cup will be long enough for you to get it.

See ya Kinney.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2006 10:01 PM EDT reply actions  

He recovered pretty well..
didn't give up anything but the homerun.  Settled down nicely.  Maybe the gopher-ball was just first pitch jitters.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 3, 2006 10:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Just like Falkenborg???
This kid has as long as Thompson is REQUIRED to stay down in AAA.  If he doesn't start putting up Ks and zeros in the next few games...tata Josh Kinney, we hardly new thee.

by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2006 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

knew not new
damnit - its difficult to be clever and witty when your grammatical skills betray you...

by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2006 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm still mad about falk
TLR set him up to fail and he did, at least in that first game.  I can't remember any of his subsequent appearances but that first game was not his fault at all imho.

(and yes, I know he ignored yadi, but he had been off the bus for 2 hours when they put him in to pitch!)

by SleepyCA on Jul 3, 2006 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

This team is so bad
I could cry.

by ryanisforever on Jul 3, 2006 10:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Quad Cities
Won their first game without Rasmus 6-1. Randy Roth hit his 17th homer and Jon Jay added a 2-RBI double.

by stlnd on Jul 3, 2006 10:26 PM EDT reply actions  

While the Reds do suck...
...which makes the Cardinals losses not sting as much, the Brewers and the Astros are getting closer and closer.

We get swept by Houston and we could drop from first to fourth.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 3, 2006 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Ugh and we have to play them in that
ridiculous ballpark...

I thought a bunch of us decided we were going to burn the place down in a previous thread...

I was gonna level out that damn hill in center...

by azruavatar on Jul 3, 2006 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

and I'll
push in that porch.  :)

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Jul 3, 2006 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Post game show
They played an interview with Jocketty where he said they were gonna have Thompson start down in AAA that way when he comes back he can be more of a long relief or spot starter.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 3, 2006 11:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Does anyone know what
the Cards record is after a rain delay? It seems to me that we never win games after a rain delay...
Anyone?
I'm going to my happy place now.

by RosevilleRedbird on Jul 3, 2006 11:18 PM EDT reply actions  

the season
Edmunds looked hurt in center and Duncan is lost in left.
Not good. We are making other teams 'look" like us and we look more and more like the teams the Cardinals have beaten in years past. This game should have been over when Eck and Duncan were on base for Albert with no body out.

by scott tracy on Jul 3, 2006 11:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Edmonds looks slow
but, then again, this is the 2nd time I've seen a fly to right center (the home run) that was closer to right than to center, and Edmonds got to it before Juan'cion.  Sigh.

by sdrone on Jul 3, 2006 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope ESPN's gun was slow
because otherwise Reyes had nothing above 88 or 89 mph.

Of course, Smoltz didn't hit 90 often and only hit 91 about once; last time I saw him on TV in Chicago that gun was showing him regularly at 93 mph.  Then again, that was the game he hurt his hamstring...

by sdrone on Jul 3, 2006 11:49 PM EDT reply actions  

88-89 MPH
Perhaps that has something to do with Duncan and LaRussa wanting him to develop that 2 seamer.

Personally, I liked the 95 MPH shit better.

by eviljake on Jul 4, 2006 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was at the park
and the Ted's gun only had him at 92-93, tops.

by birdjam on Jul 4, 2006 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

the gun
Were we watching the same ESPN? In the early innings Smoltz was hitting 94-96 and Reyes was sitting between 88-91, and hitting 94-95 on a few occasions.  

by matt reeder on Jul 4, 2006 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

kinda off topic
but who are you guys voting for on the final vote.  I'm voting for Lirano and Nomar

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Jul 4, 2006 12:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Reyes
How's that "pitching to contact" theory looking now, Dunc?

by cardsrul on Jul 4, 2006 12:30 AM EDT reply actions  

to be fair we don't know that Dunc
is forcing Reyes to pitch-to-contact.

Reyes has had back to back mediocre outings and that's gonna happen.  We stuck with Marquis through his sh*t for 2.5 years now let's let Reyes have some off days before we blame Dunc or Reyes.  Sometimes pitchers give up runs.

That being said, if Dunc says himself that he is promoting a pitch to contact strategy or wants him to induce more groundballs with a two seamer, I am going to seriously go apesh*t

by azruavatar on Jul 4, 2006 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

There was a graph in yesterday's PD
that hinted at Duncan trying to get Reyes to adopt his pitch-to-contact philosophy:
"Earlier this season, Reyes reiterated that he never pitches "to contact." Duncan believes that contact can be beneficial because it saves wear and tear. To control contact, however, requires precise command within the strike zone.

Those who have worked with Reyes see him coming around to that philosophy."

I agree that we don't know, but I question if Reyes' sudden loss of precision isn't because Duncan is messing with him. I can't say that I'm surprised and I only hope that Reyes can hold it together, while still appeasing Duncan.

by rob is back on Jul 4, 2006 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've never seen a groundball...
...go over the outfield wall for 4 bases.

Reyes has not looked as sharp as he had in the past, which scares me.  I can only imagine what Wainwright into the rotation would do to him.  Even in the BP he's giving up HRs.

He's a known entity in the pen.  Let's just leave him there for now and trust that he will continue to be above average as he has been.

Of course, I'm sure Tony blamed tonights loss on defense and offense.  If our outfielders would have jumped over the fences or our batters had all hit homeruns, the starting pitching and bullpen woes would have been moot.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 4, 2006 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree on Wainwright
He's been slipping some as of late and probably needs to stay in the pen. But when you mess with a pitcher's mechanics, as Duncan could be doing with Reyes right now, I could see where it could mess up his total game.

I may be wrong, but I thought Reyes looked like he was trying something new in his last start. I didn't see much of tonight's game, unfortunately, but the results seem predicatable, if Duncan is messing with his game.

by rob is back on Jul 4, 2006 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

he struck out five
in five innings, he just didn't have his breaking ball.

What encouraged me the most was that he refused to nibble, he kept going after people when he could.

by DanUpBaby on Jul 4, 2006 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

On the bright side..
Blake King struck out 10 batters in 5 innings for Johnson city
I did some research on Blake King, he was a 44th round draft pick in '05, and is 19 years old.
Here's the line:
STL R   King, Blake  ...............   5.0  5  1   1   1  10   1.20

by KeepOnRolen on Jul 4, 2006 1:05 AM EDT reply actions  

I've been watching him
and have been impressed with him. FWIW, his great uncle is Mickey Mantle.

by rob is back on Jul 4, 2006 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm hoping to see
JC at the end of the month when they visit the Braves Appy League team in Danville, an hour south of me(to put it into easier to place geographical terms, Danville is about an hour north of Greensboro, right on the VA/NC state line). Maybe King will pitch one of the games.

by cardsrul on Jul 4, 2006 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm also interested in seeing how
Elvis Hernandez develops in Johnson City. I think Hernandez is a product of our DSL team. He's started two games for Johnson City so far and has a 2.61 era. I don't think he fared so well in his last outing though.

I hope you'll share your assessment with us, regardless of who starts when you see them.

by rob is back on Jul 4, 2006 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can't believe you guys ignored this
IT WAS RAINING. He was pretty damn good until the water was coming down pretty hard, then he allows two solo shots, with pretty bad pitches that obviously didn't go where he wanted them. Slippery ball and slippery mound can do that to the best.

Doesn't excuse the post-delay play, but these things have to be taken into consideration.

by SirVLCIV on Jul 4, 2006 8:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Sure, it was raining
and that worried me.  I didn't want him to get hurt.  But home runs are home runs.

by sdrone on Jul 4, 2006 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

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