Game 103 Open Thread: July 29, 2006

by lboros on Jul 29, 2006 9:16 AM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News

reyes maddux
2-4, 4.57 8-11, 4.83

the carlos lee trade you already know about. the rest of the story so far:

atlanta picked up danys baez yesterday to go along with earlier bullpen acquisition bob wickman; los angeles got wilson betemit back to play 3d base, or 2d when kent can't go
the giants got mike stanton for some reason
milwaukee picked up david bell

the barry-zito-to-mets rumor has been dusted off, although nobody has explained why the athletics, half a game out of first place, would trade their ace. . . . the mets, like the cardinals, continue to long for dontrelle and hope the price comes down before the deadline. other rumors, all culled from pro sports daily's rumors page (i hereby disclaim any credit or blame for the veracity -- or lack -- of these items):

the red sox would deal trot nixon, and maybe coco crisp, for the right starting pitcher
ditto the rangers vis-vis brad wilkerson
the yankees are right in there with the cardinals checking out philadelphia's merchandise
the dodgers, astros, and twins are the leading suitors for soriano
anaheim's bill stoneman, like jocketty, has kicked the tires on jeff conine

finally, the pittsburgh gazette has the bucs' dave littlefield desperately trying not to become the new chuck lamar; maybe that impulse will drive the price on his free-agents-to-be down into reasonable territory.

this morning's trade-deadline update from strauss names philadelphia's outfielders and lh relievers, as well as the dbacks' two veteran lh outfielders. miklasz says jocketty's focusing on pitching and closing in on a LOOGY. the strauss article also focuses on the status of adam wainwright, who is officially "untouchable" . . . . a lefty reliever appears fairly likely; beyond that, it's pretty murky.

the cards are virtually guaranteed to make a move today, because i'll be totally out of pocket -- taking the kids on a choo-choo train ride through the royal gorge.

the convergence of the trade deadline with bruce sutter's impending HOF induction has me thinking back to that famous trade, the 2d of 3 consecutive blockbusters ol' whitey pulled off at the 1980 winter meetings. the previous day, herzog had aquired rollie fingers and extras for catching prospect terry kennedy and extras; then he picked up sutter for leon durham and ken reitz. if the trade were made today, all we stat geeks would hate it. durham was a can't-miss hall-of-famer, coming off a rookie season in which he posted a league-avg OPS at the tender age of 22. sutter, meanwhile, bore all the marks of a pitcher in decline; his k/9 dropped off a cliff in 1980, and his hits/9 ballooned to almost 9.0; he had thrown 100+ relief innings four years in a row and looked to carry a high burnout risk. durham did live up to his billing -- for four years, anyway; he finished top-5 in league OPS twice in that span. but his catastrophic 7th-inning error in the deciding game of the 1984 nlcs apparently ruined him; he was good not great for three more years, then vanished. sutter, meanwhile, never regained the dominance he'd displayed from 1977-79, but he did remain very effective -- and he was the 2d-best pitcher (behind andujar) on the cards' last world champ'ship team.

if you added up the raw values involved on each side of the deal, you'd say the cubs got the better end of it -- 7 years of everyday play at 1st base, 4 of them at an all-star level, vs four years of relief pitching, two of them all-star caliber. but that illustrates one of the fallacies of assessing trades in isolation; you'll never convince me that st louis would have had a better decade if they'd kept durham and never had sutter. they might have received more raw value from durham, but it wouldn't have been the type of value that addressed the cards' most pressing needs. it's all about allocating resources, all about getting the roster to balance out as well as possible.

good pitching performances from two good prospects last night: jaime garcia mowed 'em down for 7 innings in high-a last night. unfortunately, his manager sent him back out there for the 8th and he tired, lost the lead (palm beach ultimately lost the game). at springfield, mike parisi minimized the damage against the texas league's best offense and got his 6th win of the season.

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Man

When I was six and I looked at the back of my Leon Durham Topps 1986 card and saw that he was a former Cardinal, I was so pissed.

The moral of the story: Leon Durham's 1986 Topps was awesome.

http://music-cat.iofferlite.com/img/1099987200/_i/4334885/t_1.jpg

LOOGY's on the way, huh? Ray Kings on the block.

(Que laughter)

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2006 9:24 AM EDT reply actions

royal gorge

Hey lboros, loved the royal gorge when I was out there, even though I was scared to death when I was on the bridge and a van drove over. Had no idea you could do a train ride through it, that would be nice.

by bigcardsfan5 on Jul 29, 2006 10:39 AM EDT reply actions

Try rafting down the river...

..for a unique perspective, plus it's really fun.

For maximum pleasure, go when the Birds are in Chicago.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Jul 29, 2006 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions

What am I missing on David Dellucci?

I mean, why aren't we talking more about him as a possibility? He seems perfect to me, but I must be missing something here?

by rob is back on Jul 29, 2006 10:55 AM EDT reply actions

dellucci

I don't think you are missing anything per se. But there's no way Philly will give up Dellucci while still shopping Abreu and Burrell. If they are unable to move either of those two guys (which seems more and more likely to me, but what the hell do I know), then look to see Dellucci possibly get traded. Philly doesn't have a whole lot of incentive to trade a back-up outfielder earning less than $1 million unless there is something that they can gain of some value in return.

by Tudor 85 on Jul 29, 2006 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions

That makese sense

I'd thought about that and wouldn't have bothered mentioning him, except that Strauss mentioned him in his article. I guess that doesn't mean he's on the trade block though.

by rob is back on Jul 29, 2006 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Buster Olney

I don't know if he knows anything, but he mentioned that the Red Sox might make Mark Loretta available for pitching as well. They could replace him w/ Dustin Pedroia who's hitting over .300 at AAA. Maybe he's just speculating or maybe he's heard that from those in the know. Not sure.

by chuckb on Jul 29, 2006 11:01 AM EDT reply actions

Brett Myers

I really think this guy could help our ballclub. Yeah, he's had off-the-field problems this year, but that's never stopped Walt before (just look at Sid Ponson). He's electric at times; just look at last night: 8 innings pitched, 1 run, 5 hits, 8 strikeouts. Maybe we could one-stop shop and get Dellucci and Cormier tossed in the deal as well, mainly as a salary dump for the Phillies.

Check out my new Cardinals blog: http://rockinred.blogspot.com

by rockin the red on Jul 29, 2006 11:01 AM EDT reply actions

I don't mind

a drunk. But a wife beater, I dunno...

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions

As least she wasn't a judge

Well, I don't think she is. :-)

I don't know about getting Myers either. I'm kinda torn. He could help, but would it be worth the baggage? And was the incident in Boston indicative of his overall personality, or just a terrible lapse in judgement?

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions

I can't imagine

that B-My would be available. I would bet the Phillies are counting on the Myers-Hamels-Floyd troika to carry them the next few seasons.

The 26th Man

by 26thMan on Jul 29, 2006 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions

I thought I remembered Jim Kaat

being a pretty good pitcher for the team in '82, and then I looked up his stats. Not as impressive as I remembered as a youngster.

Oh well, Andujar was the bomb.

"I'm the player to be named later." - Crash Davis (Kevin Costner)

by player2bnamedl8r on Jul 29, 2006 11:03 AM EDT reply actions

Kaat

also was 78 years old when he played for the Cardinals.

The 26th Man

by 26thMan on Jul 29, 2006 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm ready for something to happen

Although, I'm afraid that any move the Cards could realistically make will feel like a let-down...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 11:27 AM EDT reply actions

Myers

The dude's a horse, and will thrive out of Philly. But I don't want to think about the guy until after the court case has been resolved and he's gone on a public apology tour, and/or gets anger management or something. It would ruin--yes, ruin--my enthusiasm for this club.

This is too nasty of an offense to just shrug it off.

meat

youneverknow

by meat on Jul 29, 2006 11:38 AM EDT reply actions

myers

is currently in anger management.

by lopey986 on Jul 29, 2006 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions

The tyranny of high-expectations

I'd be happy with a LH reliever like Cormier at this point. TJ needs to be sent back to Memphis for the short remainder of their season.

I'd love an impact bat, but I just don't think the price will be worth it...unless Walt can swing a trade for a guy like Abreu for very little cost to the farm system. Doubt it, though.

I think the team is hedging its bets on Mulder...and won't go after another starter, unless Marquis or another starter get dealt for a bat. Or Willis becomes available at a cost acceptable to club management.

"I'm the player to be named later." - Crash Davis (Kevin Costner)

by player2bnamedl8r on Jul 29, 2006 11:40 AM EDT reply actions

bigbie

i would feel a bit better about the team not acquiring a bat if he was at all functional. what a waste. and to think, steve stone said he coulda won the batting title.

"The real question is when Pujols next will lose an MVP race; I'm guessing 2010." --Ken Rosenthal

by sjoshi on Jul 29, 2006 11:45 AM EDT reply actions

Today's game should be interesting

"Flat-bill" vs. "Buffalo-Bill"

I'd love to see the kid return to his June 22nd form...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 11:57 AM EDT reply actions

How could we have not offered a former closer

for Betemit? Seems to me we have one of those handy...w/ better relievers in the pen and some replacements at AAA.

I don't think we need a LOOGY but everyone else here does. 2b and C seem to be the most glaring weaknesses offensively right now and Betemit would have been a nice cheap pickup. The dodgers are now flush with middle infielders: Kent, Furcal Betemit.

It's still about the starting pitching though. Gotta have a number 2 in the rotation. I hope walt doesn't miss the smaller upgrades (i.e. Betemit) in order to try - and fail - to snag a Willis, soriano type.

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 12:24 PM EDT reply actions

I agree

I made a post about that yesterday. We could've outdone Baez. We have plenty of guys like that who can be replaced by our farm.

by aet15 on Jul 29, 2006 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Albert Pujols hasn't had a multi HR game....

...since April 16 @ home vs the Reds. Today is the day.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 12:27 PM EDT reply actions

Was that

the 3-HR game?

"I'm the player to be named later." - Crash Davis (Kevin Costner)

by player2bnamedl8r on Jul 29, 2006 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions

It was the God-like game...

in which he and Rolen made up for some shoddy pitching.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Giants 51-52

For the right offer, despite the Giants being in playoff contention, Jason Schmidt would be available. Sabean knows he doesn't have a WS team on his hands. If you offer the right get-young type of package, he would part with Schmidt.

Please Walt...make me look like a genius and pull this one off. I've only been harping on it for like a month and a half.

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 12:51 PM EDT reply actions

I doubt it

I would seriously doubt that the Giants would Trade Schmidt. With all the drama surrounding Bonds, how would giving up your best pitcher while being 3 games out of the division lead look? Does not seem to be a smart move on the Giants part, so I would not hold your breath if I were you.

by FunkeeC on Jul 29, 2006 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Well...

the Giants were on the receiving end of the infamous "White Flag Trade" back in 1997. Maybe they'll feel karma's hot breath on the beck of their metaphorical neck.

Or something.

The 26th Man

by 26thMan on Jul 29, 2006 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions

harping

yes, you have been harping.
The Giants are a this year team with their age.
Schmidt says in SF.

But you can hold your breath if you want to.

by scott tracy on Jul 29, 2006 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Sabean isn't stupid

If someone offered him a good package, he would take it. The Giants are a .500 team not a WS team. If he was offered a young pitcher, outfielder and prospect he might jump on it. The difference between Schmidt and Reyes is maybe one or two wins.

And Schmidt would be that second ace...call me crazy but it isn't impossible and we've seen Walt pull of stranger moves for less.

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Are you sure?

He did make the Pierzynski-for-Nathan-Liriano-Bonser deal...

The 26th Man

by 26thMan on Jul 29, 2006 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't forget that...

he threw Liriano in as an extra on that deal, too.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Jul 29, 2006 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Mark Loretta and Ronnie Belliard....

Both are apparently on the radar of WJ according to Ken Rosenthal. I can't imagine getting Loretta for cheap, and Belliard, not sure if I'd want him.

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jul 29, 2006 1:35 PM EDT reply actions

Belliard is a heck of a defensive second baseman

Would be better than what we have.

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 29, 2006 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I would be a little aprehensive

about a 2nd baseman that looks like a mini-manny. And not all that much of a mini!

by Birdsfanstuckinohio on Jul 29, 2006 2:00 PM EDT reply actions

Call me crazy but

I still believe Marquis has quite a bit of trade value. Since he has shown flashes of (almost) excellence this season, I'm sure there's plenty of teams out there that think they can get him on the right track and make him more consistent. Personally, I feel that if Dunc can't fix him, nobody can... but other teams may feel they can "fix" him. He's also still relatively young and let's not forget, he can hit!

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2006 2:10 PM EDT reply actions

move him

for brad wilkerson...anyone in our system can give up 6 runs in 4 innings. If the Rangers would do this, I would pull the trigger on this deal. Wilkerson has speed and power and is left handed - he's the perfect fit for us in LF.

by Toddius396 on Jul 29, 2006 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

yikes

i wouldn't want to see the boxscore if bad jason shows up to arlington one day. what's the major league record for HRs allowed in one game...

by sjoshi on Jul 29, 2006 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions

You're crazy...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

IMHO, I think Marquis has very little trade value. Even though he has 12 wins, his pitching has been very erratic this year and he has not shown improvement. In fact, he has regressed.

If you are a playoff contending team, you want a guy that can get you over the hump. Is Marquis that kind of guy? No. Would he even start in the playoffs? Probably not.

A team could "fix" him but there may not be time for a contending team to do this. To fix him, they could sign him in the offseason and then have more time to work with him before the season.

If you are a rebuilding team, then why trade for Marquis? Just sign him in the offseason.

Perhaps the only trade scenarios I can see is where a team has a player like Marquis to trade back. A player who is a free agent and they can't re-sign or don't want to re-sign. I'm not sure what players are in this list.

The other scenario is to package Marquis in a bigger deal. Give up something more of value and then throw in Marquis.

by jdubya on Jul 29, 2006 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions

you

guys remeber the other day when Jock said something to the effect of who he is targeting hasnt been mentioned at all? maybe the arm he is going after is david wells the team needs another fat boy after losing sid, and the bat is Tony womack because he has read this forum and heard people ask for him...jk

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 3:23 PM EDT reply actions

Its being mentione on the Phill's board and others

That a salary dump deal is really close.

Abreu and Lieber

for

Melky Caberra, Eric Duncan, and Scott Proctor

I really dont think we would even think about matching that deal. You?

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 29, 2006 3:34 PM EDT reply actions

Pitcher Tyler Clippard as well

seems as though they are looking for major league ready prospects.

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 29, 2006 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions

a few notes

maddux's picture on here looks like a drunken sailor...you guys mentioned brett myers if they get him the trade should be something that makes him trim that brow...

Also doesnt belliard have some pop in his bat? I wasnt aware he was good defensively always thought of his bat

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=150071

where online can i see peopel d stats? hard to compare without seeing those

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 4:05 PM EDT reply actions

any

updates on biggbie

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 4:06 PM EDT reply actions

Yay for Fox

And their nation-wide mlb tv blackout. And yay for me who gets to watch the dodgers play the nationals on fox.

Sigh.

by SleepyCA on Jul 29, 2006 4:14 PM EDT reply actions

How about a Soriano update since you are watching

let us know if he comes out of the game for an unknown reason.

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 29, 2006 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions

ok

i know people hate seeing them lose to the cubs, but there are abunch of negative peopel on the STL site, but i like to go there for bernies tid bits...but its over looked that they have won 13 of 16 per joe buck.

i think their struggles against cubbies is playing down to a bad team IMO

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 4:20 PM EDT reply actions

hahahahahahahahha

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

atta boy, Yadi!

by kindred on Jul 29, 2006 4:31 PM EDT reply actions

I don't care what

the pundits or even the statheads say (which I consider myself one) I love Yadier

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 4:32 PM EDT reply actions

tremendous coverage by fox postgame show

the highlights of the red sox, yankees, and a's games. because the american league is under contract to win this world series, so screw the national league. and yes, i did enjoy the fair and balanced coverage of the ultra-competitive mets-braves game. didn't you hear, el duque is to pitching what moses is to lawmaking.

sulking while watching hour 10231034923402348 of the contender and gameday. go cards!

by sjoshi on Jul 29, 2006 4:32 PM EDT reply actions

Anyone think Luna is trade bait right now?

Only explanation as to Tony's sudden change of heart with Miles at 2B. Miles hits a homerun, and then rides the pine.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 4:34 PM EDT reply actions

Luna has as much value as my pinky finger

and thats not saying much.

On the other hand I would not mind seeing him packaged for another second baseman

If you could pick between

Vidro
Belliard
Loretta

which would you choose?

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 29, 2006 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Vidro

I suppose based on his #'s this year.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Belliard

Especially if we can re-sign him for 1 or 2 more years.

R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Jul 29, 2006 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions

vidro

isn't he on the DL?

by Toddius396 on Jul 29, 2006 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions

So who gets plunked on the Cards today

I have a feeling the emotions are going to run high the next two days.

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 29, 2006 4:34 PM EDT reply actions

do any of you remember

Aramis Ramirez being such a good defensive third baseman

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 4:34 PM EDT reply actions

MLB NO TV

friggin blackout, and I'm force fed Yankees on the tube.

How does a cather pick off a runner at second. can't wit for the highlight. i hope we were laughing as we ran off the field. way to go yadi.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 29, 2006 4:34 PM EDT reply actions

Barret was napping and Eckstien

came from behind and blocked the sliding path to the bag.

Great timing play

by Poooo Daddy on Jul 29, 2006 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Hey BOTB

If you'd like, drop me a line...I have some info you might find interesting...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm lucky

because St. Louis games are rarely blacked out in my area, but I subscribe to MLB.TV, anyway, to catch more games. Just started up MLB Mosaic a minute ago and every single game was blacked out for me though (5 of 'em!) I'm debating whether it's worth renewing, since so many games are blacked out.

by rob is back on Jul 29, 2006 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Cardinals suck...

Why do we even show up to Wrigley? This is pathetic, absolutely pathetic. Has Rolen forgot how to play baseball?

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jul 29, 2006 4:51 PM EDT reply actions

Thanks for the play description

I've got gameday and espn gamecast side by side. They're equally useless for play description. both attempt to show pitch placement but still don't have the pitch speed. Are there any better alternatives???

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 29, 2006 4:51 PM EDT reply actions

more embarrassing

idiotic defense. it's like a freakin' circus

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 4:51 PM EDT reply actions

WTF?

What in the hell is going on there?

by matt reeder on Jul 29, 2006 4:51 PM EDT reply actions

Jeezus H. Christ !!

Get your fucking heads out of your asses guys!!

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 4:52 PM EDT reply actions

wtf

Bottom 2ND B:0 S:0 O:1
With Greg Maddux batting, Angel Pagan steals (2) home, Ronny Cedeno to 2nd on the throw.

how in the world did this happen?

by SleepyCA on Jul 29, 2006 4:53 PM EDT reply actions

Reyes

faked to 3rd, threw to 1st and had the guy on first in a run down. Eckstein gave too much chase to the runner and ignored Pagan until it was too late, he scored.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions

a statue of liberty pickoff move

and it worked....the runner from first was caught in the rundown, but Eckstein overpursued and then belatedly threw home....Cedeno took 2nd as Molina was picking the ball out of the dirt.

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2006 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions

That was like a scene from

a comedy movie. Where's the film crew? Where's Charlie Sheen? Unbelievable!

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 4:53 PM EDT reply actions

for the benefit of those of us in black-out-land

what exactly happened?

DCGreg

by DCGreg on Jul 29, 2006 4:54 PM EDT reply actions

Scott Rolen...

is single handedly trying to blow every game of this 4 game series for us. F*ckin gold glovers don't do that. Simple as that.

by Pujols for MVP on Jul 29, 2006 4:54 PM EDT reply actions

Stole Home???

How please. Who's napping now?

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 29, 2006 4:54 PM EDT reply actions

that was fucking insane

i'm lucky enough to be watching on TV for once....that had to be one of the strangest innings ever....Cedeno bounced off of Molina like a car hitting a semi....Molina didn't know where the ball was initially....I jumped up and was yelling get the ball! get the ball!

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2006 4:55 PM EDT reply actions

Reyes stepped toward 3rd

and threw to first. Cedeno was going and was caught in a rundown. Eck runs him too far back toward 1st, while Pagan is going home. Eck notices too late and makes a poor throw home waaaay too late to get Pagan. Cedeno takes 2nd...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 4:56 PM EDT reply actions

WTF-again?

This is ridiculous. I think it's time for a 10-run inning or something. Doesn't anyone else think the Cards are just playing in a trance or something? Like, we know they're a much better team than this; my guess is that they're just playing like they have no clue how the Cubs keep beating them, and as a result, they're playing tight, making uncharacteristic errors, and trying too hard to make the play.

They need to get their mojo back, and a couple of innings of teeing off would be just the thing to do it.

They're a much better team than this horseshit.

by matt reeder on Jul 29, 2006 4:56 PM EDT reply actions

The Facts

That was a balk, so the run scores anyway with proper umpiring.
Rolen's concentration could be questioned, but I don't think he could've known Mabry held up. There was almost certainly no audible from the 3rd base coach.
Eckstein should've been aware of the runner at third and his ability to get home.

Error-Eckstein. But apparently not..

by glamberson on Jul 29, 2006 4:57 PM EDT reply actions

Rolen

with the crowd yelling maybe he figured Mabry had already scored....his back was turned when Mabry held up....

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2006 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions

BRAIN FARTS

C'mon guys!

by glamberson on Jul 29, 2006 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Oops, I meant to say

Taguchi BRAIN FARTS

by glamberson on Jul 29, 2006 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions

That was not very close

to being a balk. Despite what McCarver and Buck said. He stepped plenty toward third base. It was a good move.

by locolawyer on Jul 30, 2006 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions

thanks rev

why is gamecast and game day so pathetic?

Did jenc really gun cedeno at the plate?

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 29, 2006 4:57 PM EDT reply actions

Well..

Mabry was on 2nd, Pagan on first....

Cedeno single to center and Mabry went to 3rd. Pagan however went to thrist as well. The throw cam into Rolen at third and he just stood there, never seeing Mabry take home...it was a joke. I hope he feels like a complete ass.

by Pujols for MVP on Jul 29, 2006 4:57 PM EDT reply actions

Oops

Thrist = third. I am so mad right now I can't even type correctly.

by Pujols for MVP on Jul 29, 2006 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions

HAHA

Wow, this team has no brains.

by Pujols for MVP on Jul 29, 2006 4:58 PM EDT reply actions

FWIW

Enc looked pretty good in the field in that inning

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2006 4:59 PM EDT reply actions

WTF-pt. 3...

This is getting worse by the minute. Actually, this is downright embarassing.

by matt reeder on Jul 29, 2006 5:00 PM EDT reply actions

WTF, Part IV....

...How can So be SO damn stupid?

by Ignatius J Reilly on Jul 29, 2006 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Anyone else notice

on the replay that So never passed second base? I wondered whether there was some sort of obscure rule that says you have to "retouch" the base anyway, even if you do not go passed it, but I looked and there is nothing. No wonder he was so stunned at the call - he never passed the bag at 2nd. Bizarre call. Of course, the call was backed up by McCarver and Buck, who quickly got rid of the replay without comment when it became clear that So did not pass the bag at 2nd. A network game wouldn't be complete without sucking up to MLB!

by locolawyer on Jul 30, 2006 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions

arg!

why Pujols even swing at that? it was unhittable and Gooch had the base stolen.

oh, yeah, because TLR's dumb ass put a hit-and-run on.

by kindred on Jul 29, 2006 5:00 PM EDT reply actions

I'm surprised somebody hasn't completely lost it..

Seriously. This is the worst baseball I've ever heard or seen. What are they, a bunch of little leaguers?

by matt reeder on Jul 29, 2006 5:01 PM EDT reply actions

this is really, really freaking weird

Wrigley Field=Bermuda Triangle

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 5:01 PM EDT reply actions

i'm just glad

i can't see this game. Jesus....

by cardsrul on Jul 29, 2006 5:02 PM EDT reply actions

you'd have to see it

to believe it. Neifi Perez just broke his bat on a grounder to Rolen. He didn't even run, he just stood there schocked that his bat was broke.

What is going on? 3 walks by Reyes. He looks okay today, but the walks are really uncharacteristic.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions

You have the best seat...

...in the house.A gang of little leaguers has better fundamentals than this.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Jul 29, 2006 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions

oh wow!

Real Men of Genius Neifi Perez. That was the funniest thing i've ever seen! Look, my bat broke! What do I do now?

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 5:03 PM EDT reply actions

Where the F is Mike Shannon?

and I'm in Vegas so I get the friggin Dodger/Nats game on Fox.

Let's go Reyes!

It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Jul 29, 2006 5:03 PM EDT reply actions

his wife in in the hospital...

...so he's got some time off.

by kindred on Jul 29, 2006 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions

his wife Judy

has cancer.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions

All that

And we're only down by one run, in the third. Lol.

(assuming no one has scored since gameday froze on me, after neifi's foul bunt)

by SleepyCA on Jul 29, 2006 5:04 PM EDT reply actions

I feel like...

I'm watching Memphis.

This is awful.

by whopperman on Jul 29, 2006 5:06 PM EDT reply actions

I'm thinking

I can catch some better baseball at the little league field across the street.

by Elle on Jul 29, 2006 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions

This is like that movie...

Where the people switch identities. What is that, Freaky Friday? Parent Trap? We've become the Cubs for the weekend.

Somebody needs to pay.

by matt reeder on Jul 29, 2006 5:06 PM EDT reply actions

is it just gameday,

or is reyes leaving everything up?

by sjoshi on Jul 29, 2006 5:06 PM EDT reply actions

boy

i starting to feel like pbp here. No, he's not. He actually looks pretty sharp, with his fastball and changeup, but his breaking ball looks off, he's not really commanding it at all

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh boy

We're probably gonna need an overflow thread today, and lboros said he's not gonna be around to post one.

Oh well, I'm leaving in about an hour.

by whopperman on Jul 29, 2006 5:11 PM EDT reply actions

May not need another thread

How many ways are there to say, not hitting, not playing defense, and looking BAD doing it?

by madridbend on Jul 29, 2006 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

We're already at 105...

...and you know we here at VEB are very good at having 30 people say the same thing.

by whopperman on Jul 29, 2006 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks for the comments

espn gamecast still hasn't explained how they got the third out. worse than useless.

at least the yanks are losing, but i let my son have the tube to play xbox oblivion. might be better than bball from the accounts.

great day for a ride in royal gorge!!

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 29, 2006 5:12 PM EDT reply actions

This game has sucked today

and Oblivion (whether on XBox 360 or PC) totally rocks. I just turned it off to watch this embarassment of a game.

by Solanus on Jul 29, 2006 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Lboros is the lucky one today

Not having to watch this shit...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 5:14 PM EDT reply actions

2 terrible AB's

Enc looked like he was going to swing out of his shoes and fall on his butt. And Edmonds was a statue. jeez.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 5:14 PM EDT reply actions

that was a brutal pitch

from Maddux that struck out Edmonds....

if Maddux is going to be traded, why can't the Cards get him? Too expensive?

by nota bene on Jul 29, 2006 5:16 PM EDT reply actions

BULLCRAP

He got back to the bag WAY before the runner got there.

by whopperman on Jul 29, 2006 5:16 PM EDT reply actions

That's okay Hector

I know it's tough to field with your head up your ass...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 5:19 PM EDT reply actions

OK McCarver...

Next time you think a Harry Caray impersonation would be good for the broadcast...keep it in. It's not. You suck at it.

by whopperman on Jul 29, 2006 5:26 PM EDT reply actions

Who is worse than...

...McCarver? Plus, he's the all-time worst on a national broadcast.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Jul 29, 2006 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions

The only thing McCarver is good at

is being an annoying fuck. Sadly, Joe Buck isn't much better these days...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions

This game

is making me rethink my decision to cancel this afternoon's dentist appointment. Might have been less painful.

by heart cards on Jul 29, 2006 5:29 PM EDT reply actions

I understand ...

...some Cards fans at Wrigley left for hemorrhoidectimies.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Jul 29, 2006 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions

rage.

I'm a pretty mild-mannered guy, but I haven't been this angry in a LONG LONG time.

by matt reeder on Jul 29, 2006 5:34 PM EDT reply actions

Rage is putting it lightly

Apoplexy, fury, wrath...

(sigh) I need another beer...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Why is Reyes so

scared of Ramirez?

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 5:39 PM EDT reply actions

reyes velocity

what's it been like today?

by jms8897 on Jul 29, 2006 5:39 PM EDT reply actions

tough to know...

... he hasn't thrown a fastball yet.

steady diet of sliders and changeups.

by kindred on Jul 29, 2006 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions

he's been

topping out at 92.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions

he

has dialed it up a few times, but not for stikes...9 of 23 first pitches has been balls...I hate to say it but Id like to see them do to reyes like the did AW...pitch him in relief alot then next year bring him in...

I just dont see the hype, but hes only started 10 games so its pre mature to be real negative, but I just dont go wow a year or so this guy will be a stud. Not sure I do with AW either but Id swap em.

That said he hasnt pitched that bad, but a good team might kill this performance.

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 5:42 PM EDT reply actions

its good for them to start

cause they need to develop those secondary pitches, IMHO.

by sjoshi on Jul 29, 2006 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't see the hype???

did you hear about that 1-hitter CG that he lost...

that's the hype...

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions

yes I did

but how many starts ago was that? Evaluating talent is hard...but even Bud Smith, and Jiminez had great games. Im commenting(the hype) on all those that pushed for him to start this year..great experience, but you cant then complain if cards los with a rookie in the rotation...if we say give him a chance, then we have to be fair if he takes knoks.

What I did like today was the way he worked out of often jams..He sould have had a dp in the last inning but Luna IMO had a slow turn not eck(like Mcarver said)

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Play by play

will those of you lucky enough to watch this catastrophy, and even listen to annoying anouncers please offer up more game description for those of us suffering throughout on geamday et al.
At this point Reyes appears to have diminished his trade value close to that of marquis. 5h, 4bb, and 0 k's through five. is he looking that bad, and just trying to nibble the corners? is he thowing half his pitches as change-upds again?
While the position players make this a comedy of errors, i hate to see our hot prospect going down again.

Any useful descriptions by viewers are most appreciated.

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 29, 2006 5:44 PM EDT reply actions

McCarver is killing me (as usual)

I'm stuck with him and Buck on MLB.tv, and unfortunately, I can't listen to the KTRS feed on Gameday audio at the same time.

Wish they would allow you to do both...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah...

... too many changeups. most of his balls are nowhere near the zone, so no one is chasing them. he hasn't left anything in the middle of the plate, really, but he's not blowing anybody away, either.

he also doesn't seem to be able to throw the slider anywhere near the zone.

he is definitely not attacking guys.

by kindred on Jul 29, 2006 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Well...

It doesn't help get a batter to chase, or the umpire to call it a strike, when Molina sets up in the on-deck circle or standing straight up holding his glove over his head.

Just giving away balls in the count is not smart baseball.

by whopperman on Jul 29, 2006 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions

out of the 5 walks

he's pitched around Aramis Ramirez 3 times. Well, the third walk to Ramirez didn't look like he was pitching around him. Yadi kept setting up outside.

Reyes does not look like crap at all, his fastball has been pretty lively, his changeup still looks great. His location been okay overall, not really missing too many pitches. He also keeps trying to throw low and inside on Mabes, that's why he's walked him twice. And i think that's coming from the duguout, mostly, or the way Yadi is setting him up.

I wouldn't say he's diminishing his value whatsoever, and no offense but the Marquis comparisons are very far off. Dont' go by the scoreboard.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions

okay,

this inning he looks like crap. no contol at all.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Reyes

has not looked impressive at all. Lots of walks, nothing intimidating, hardly the same guy that went against the White Sox. I blame La Russa or Duncan because he seems like an entirely different pitcher than when he first came into the league. I'm sure we'll dump him and he'll go on to pitch great for somebody else while we look at some re-treads.

Hate the F*cking Cubs!

Hancock is warming up and I would expect will be in during the 7th at the latest.

by Brownale on Jul 29, 2006 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions

quality start

even if he hasn't pitched a 1-hitter, a quality start is more than some of our other starters can say.

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess

I'm not seeing what you guys are. The walks have been weird, but clearly he was pitching around Ramirez as Yadi was setting up way outside. On Mabry yadi kept calling for low and inside. I just don't think it's all his fault. And the hits the Cubs got were weak little dinkers, other then Juan Pierre's triple.

He's getting swings and misses, I just think his pitch selection could be better. i'd like to see more fastballs setting up his change for a k.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions

bet you anything

that TLR is trying to keep Reyes away from the high fastballs. look at his GB/FB ratio. this is terrible. they might as well trade the kid if they're going to use him like this

Cardinals Diaspora

by Ryan Van Bibber on Jul 29, 2006 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

Five walks and a HBP...not a single K...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Yep

I didn't see the high, riding fastball. You hit the nail on the head. That's his his best pitch, if not maybe the changeup and that's the BS Tony said he didn't like about him this spring. He's "up in the zone" too much I remember hearing. The conspiracy theory thickens, and I've thought what you've thought too Ryan.

Let the kid do his thing or let him go do it elsewhere and just cash him in. He's being forced into being something he isn't.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Or...just maybe...

...Reyes just isn't that great.

He's a solid MLB starter right now, but no better than a #5 starter on most teams.

You've got to have an out pitch and Reyes seemingly can't find one.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions

he has an out pitch

he has 3 actually, just funky pitch selection if you ask me. it's far too early to say reyes is no good.

Reverend Redbird

by erik on Jul 29, 2006 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm thinking the same thing here ...

and it drives me nuts when managers attempt to "fix" successful triple-a players, without first giving them a chance at the major league level while "broken".

by rob is back on Jul 29, 2006 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Maddux

It won't surprise me at all to see them leave Maddux in for the entire game. He owns us; why wouldn't they?

by matt reeder on Jul 29, 2006 5:47 PM EDT reply actions

Wuertz

is warming up. Not sure if he'll come in or is there just in case Maddux comes out for a pinch hitter.

by Brownale on Jul 29, 2006 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Here's my question

why all the walks...

Is Reyes trying to be too fine? These walks are completely out of line with everything we know about Reyes from the minors...I don't understand what is causing this loss of control.

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 5:50 PM EDT reply actions

Okay Joe

We get it...Maddux is a legend. You can get out of his ass now...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 5:59 PM EDT reply actions

must be kinda crowded

with Rick Horton up their too

I really hope Shannon's wife gets better and I mean that sincerely not just because Horton is a terrible radio announcer.

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions

On the bright side

maybe McCarver will venture up there too and be unable to find his way back out...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Alright Rolen!

knockin' Maddux out, and a runner in scoring position.

aw crap. that also means another 4 minute commercial break, doesn't it?

by effin fisk on Jul 29, 2006 6:06 PM EDT reply actions

Alright...

off to AutoZone Park to watch Memphis snap its two-game winning streak.

by whopperman on Jul 29, 2006 6:07 PM EDT reply actions

Aren't you tired

of watching minor league baseball today? ;-)

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Haha

They won! Equalled their season long winning streak, at three games.

They still managed to screw some things up -- they sent 20 batters to the plate in the first two innings and only scored 8 runs...which is, of course, the fewest you can score in 20 batters.

by whopperman on Jul 30, 2006 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Maddux out at only 84 pitches?

What is Dusty thinking?

Fan for Life. Go Cards.

by Birds on the Bat on Jul 29, 2006 6:08 PM EDT reply actions

take him out after a good outing

to make sure he doesn't lose any trade value

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions

That mound

visit Maddux looke T'd and may have had no gas left? for those watching on Tv did you see that? he was angry...

and with all his trade hype..whatch him go no where

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 6:11 PM EDT reply actions

@%^%$!%@#^@% Wuertz

i hate the mother @%^%$!%@#^@% cubs...

I just can't take this any more. a leadoff double, K, K, flyout

son of @%^%$!%@#^@%

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 6:13 PM EDT reply actions

Jameson's goes down smoothly..

...with this game. Honey, bring me another.

Car bombs after the loss.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Jul 29, 2006 6:21 PM EDT reply actions

I'm eyeing a big glass

of Hemlock myself...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions

We're reduced to

intentionally walking Joke Jones...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 6:21 PM EDT reply actions

I'm suprised the Cubs ever use....

...according to the way Santo talks, they never make a mistake. Everything is exactly as they intend it to be.

Cubs=Smart Baseball.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 6:23 PM EDT reply actions

lose....

...not use.

Idiot.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions

And Albert will lead off the 9th

I predict he'll hit a solo HR, and the others will go in order behind him...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 6:39 PM EDT reply actions

Feh....

...Maybe Pujols HR, Rolen double, Enc K, Edmonds HR.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Would be nice

But I think the situation is farfalen...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Duncan in left field?

Why? As a defensive replacement?

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 6:41 PM EDT reply actions

Taguchi had to come out...

..I would assume for Izzy to come in.

Put Duncan in for Luna's spot, so that he can bat after Edmonds next inning.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions

this team

is a fucking disgrace, whenever we get a good pitching performance we can't score any runs and when marquis goes out there and gives up 10 runs we always hit and try and battle back, im really sick of it

bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Jul 29, 2006 6:42 PM EDT reply actions

why the hell

is izzy in in a 3-run deficit?

by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 29, 2006 6:43 PM EDT reply actions

Hasn't he not pitched since...

...Tuesday in Colorado?

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions

He's just getting some work in..

Hasnt pitched in quite a few days.. game 2 of the colorado series if I'm not mistaken

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2006 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions

maybe

to get work...and cards forever why are they a disgrace? Yes they cant beat the cubs which is emberassing, but again they have wholes..What are you expecting when SO Jrod and Dunc platoon? and Luna and miles platoon?

2. does anyone else not feel sorry for dusty? mcarver does..is that fair? is it fair that dusty's teams choked in the NLCS?

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 6:47 PM EDT reply actions

Part of the problem

is that we led off today with our two worst offensive players since the all-star break.

I love Eckstein, but give someone else a shot if he can't get the job done.

by rob is back on Jul 29, 2006 6:48 PM EDT reply actions

McCarver thinks that the Cubs

are glad to have Albert leading off the 9th with the Cubs leading by three runs...

It hadn't occurred to me they might feel that way...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 6:49 PM EDT reply actions

That may be because you...

...don't have the brilliant intellect of McCarver!!!</sarcasm>

by Ignatius J Reilly on Jul 29, 2006 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions

No one does...

n/t

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions

wtf

is wrong with rolen.....he shouldve beat that out.

by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 29, 2006 6:53 PM EDT reply actions

For a man who's single handedly lost

a few games this year already against the Cubs, you think he'd be running his ass off down the 1st base line. No excuse for not being safe there. Ridiculous

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2006 6:53 PM EDT reply actions

he was...

... he's just slow.

by kindred on Jul 29, 2006 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions

I've finally reached my conclusion..

All year I've been thinking.. who'se the best LF we have? Duncan? So? Speizio? What about 2B? Luna or Miles?

My answer? None of the above. We have SERIOUS holes at these positions. Screw platoons, screw the future.. we need players NOW!

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2006 6:55 PM EDT reply actions

If Edmonds can get on...

...Duncan can save the day!

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 6:56 PM EDT reply actions

Here it comes...

...it's time for the Cubs to play like the Cubs.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions

ata Boy Dunc....

...now is the time for Molina to take the first pitch, let Duncan take 2nd on catchers indiffernce...

Then Yadi rips a double in the gap!

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions

please duncan please

end the pain

I can't fix the slits in my wrist after this game but at least I'll die happy...hit the ^$#$^&@& ball out of the mother ^$#$^&@& park

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 6:57 PM EDT reply actions

ok JRod

help me out here

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 6:59 PM EDT reply actions

now for all you J rod lovers

time to shine?

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 6:59 PM EDT reply actions

Bad TLR Bad TLR

Yadi should be up. IMO.

R.I.P. Chris Collins

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Jul 29, 2006 7:00 PM EDT reply actions

It's a toss up.....

...either one.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions

JRod better take the next 2 pitches

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Cubbie meltdown?

c'mon c'mon c'mon...

by effin fisk on Jul 29, 2006 7:01 PM EDT reply actions

Aaron Miles....

...Mr. Clutch is up to hit.

Wally Backman 2.0, here we come.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Let's hear it for the goatee of destiny!

by effin fisk on Jul 29, 2006 7:01 PM EDT reply actions

ok - jrod and dunc have done their jobs

please put speez in

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 7:02 PM EDT reply actions

time for...

... aaron "hitman" miles.

by kindred on Jul 29, 2006 7:02 PM EDT reply actions

NOT MILES

SON OF A ^$%*(^$

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 7:02 PM EDT reply actions

Okay Miles

pretend it's Lidge out there...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 7:02 PM EDT reply actions

i'm calling it...

... miles BBs and Eck gets beaned.

by kindred on Jul 29, 2006 7:02 PM EDT reply actions

nice

i applaud you

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2006 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions

How different is this game right now...

...if Rolen could have dropped the piano.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 7:03 PM EDT reply actions

Miles..

how is that fucker in the majors?

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2006 7:03 PM EDT reply actions

Seeing as he has to be like 2nd on the team...

...in game winning hits, I'm sure he's earned it.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions

ha

Yeah too bad he couldnt have gotten another inside out swing dribbler to go into left field.

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2006 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Junior Spivey...

couldn't hit water if he fell out of a friggin' boat, that's how.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Jul 29, 2006 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not saying Spivey

could do any better.. I'm simply asking why we can't find a better 2nd basemen. Atleast he's cheap.

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2006 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

...OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

by effin fisk on Jul 29, 2006 7:03 PM EDT reply actions

...OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

by effin fisk on Jul 29, 2006 7:04 PM EDT reply actions

I guess lightning can't strike

in the same place three times...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 7:04 PM EDT reply actions

good thing we had out best hitter at the plate

o wait...that was miles...who probably wouldn't even be the best hitter in AAA

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 7:04 PM EDT reply actions

Actually...

He probably would.

Have you SEEN Memphis this season?

by whopperman on Jul 30, 2006 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions

Rolen

better stand up and appologize to the team in the clubhouse... absolutely pathetic. i can't EVER remember being upset from lack of hustle out of Rolen. Where has his head been this series? Hell... where has it been at all this year when playing the Cubs???

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2006 7:05 PM EDT reply actions

And Dumbrano tomorrow

Ya think his dumb ass will be fired up?

This is so fucking sickening. I don't think I was this sick when the Red Sox swept us two years ago...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 7:06 PM EDT reply actions

there's another game to this misery

i forgot about that...damnit all to hell

I HATE THE CUBS

mocking their overall record doesn't help when they keep handing our ass to us. Carp better go ahead and strike out 27 guys in succession cause the defense probably won't do him any favors.

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions

0-7 vs the Cubs at Wrigley

Unbelievable...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions

No Willis for the Cards.....

The Cardinals made a final bid for Dontrelle Willis, likely similar to the previous deal that centered on Anthony Reyes. Once again, the Marlins declined, not bowled over by the offer.

per Will Carrol.

Can't imagine why they wouldn't want a pitcher with an ERA hovering around 5, who seemingly can't get a groundout or a strikeout.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 7:14 PM EDT reply actions

ouch hardcore

all the anthony reyes for cy young fan club will be all over that

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 7:15 PM EDT reply actions

nah

I'm a member of the Anthony Reyes future #2 pitcher fan club...but I haven't heard Hardcore say a reasonable thing about him in weeks.

Because we all though that every rookie pitcher comes up and immediately pitchers like Liriano. Kids having some problems...I can't place them but they certainly are not in line with any of his minor league numbers especially the K:BB stat. He's certainly no worse than Marquis and gave us a quality start today and he makes league minimium.

give the kid time...we've given jason marquis 3 years...can't we give Reyes one?

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions

damnable spelling

"Because we all though that every rookie pitcher comes up and immediately pitchers like Liriano." should be read: Because we all know that every rookie pithcer comes up and imediately pitches like Liriano...

stupid fingers...

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions

Reyes has great upside...

...I'm not denying that, but why would the Marlins even contemplate trading a PROVEN pitching star for a pitcher that may not even make the Cardinals post-season roster.

No one is asking him to be Liriano. No one is asking him to be Verlander. No one is asking him to be Weaver Jr. No one is asking him to be Papelbon. No one is asking him to be Sowers.

However, using him as 'bait' for trade for a franchise pitcher in Willis seems silly, especially after the way he's performed the last few weeks.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm a fan of Reyes but....

...since his game against the White Sox, he has had an ERA of 7.59 averaging 5.0 IP and 3 Ks per start. That's no bueno.

Excuse he math if it is wrong.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2006 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions

$$$$$ is why

the marlins aren't in serious contention this year and they'll be lucky if they are last year. They have some great rookies but Reyes would be under their control for longer and less $$ than Dontrelle has left. If they were to acquire rasmus as part of this trade as well, i'd applaud them and be very upset with Walt.

It's not about what Reyes can contribute to the Marlins now...but in the future. It's all about his upside.

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions

next year not last year

damnit why can't i type...
i blame the cubs...
fuckin wrigley

by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2006 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm usually opposed to

making a move just for the sake of switching things up but something needs to be done. Even if it's an average relief pitcher... This team needs to be shaken up a little.

Can the platoon's of LF and 2B get us into the playoffs? I can confidently say yes. But can it win the NL? Not so confident...

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2006 7:28 PM EDT reply actions

LF platoon

Rodriguez and Duncan have been two of the most productive offensive players on the team since the all-star break and I wonder if we're concentrating too much on them. Can't say the same for Taguchi, unfortunately, because he's stunk it up during that time.

With Rodriguez having regained some power and Encarnacion and Duncan hitting well with power, I've been turning my attention toward Miles and Eckstein, who are supposed to be getting on base for the other guys and haven't been doing so. They have to turn things around or we're hopeless, imo, because we desperately need more men on base to take advantage of our increased slugging. I'd like to see us trade for a 2nd baseman with a little power, but most importantly, with a nice OBP.

by rob is back on Jul 29, 2006 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions

a little bird told me....

that Ronnie Belliard may be on his way to STL. Scouts wanna watch him play to make sure he's healthy, and then make the deal.

That's beer, that's Budweiser.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Jul 29, 2006 8:19 PM EDT reply actions

I'd take him

Depending on who we'd have to fork over of course. Did the little birdie happen to mention that?

by stltrav09 on Jul 29, 2006 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Okay

I just came back from the game. The second inning was the most frustrating inning I've ever seen live. And yes, I was at the Anthony Reyes one-hit loss. "Yes, we caught them at third! Oh wait, he's scoring? What the heck!?" two minutes later. "Yes! Picked him off! Wait! Eck, throw home! Safe? Throw to second! SAFE!?"

Ugh.

Can anyone tell me if Albert's foot actually came off the bag in the the third?

by aet15 on Jul 29, 2006 8:27 PM EDT reply actions

it was inconclusive

but tim mccarver sure thought so......what a suprise!

by stlcardinalsfang on Jul 29, 2006 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions

That tells me

that his foot must have been on the bag...

I've said many times that McCarver is an idiot, and after much thought, I've decided that I owe the idiots of the world an apology...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 29, 2006 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions

It definitely came off for a split second

His foot definitely came off the bag, but I'm not sure that he didn't get it back on in time.

by rob is back on Jul 29, 2006 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions

That was my impression

But it would have been a moot point if Luna had made a decent throw.

What's more troubling is Eck. No way that Pagan should have scored from 3rd on that rundown play. And he made a poor throw to 3rd yesterday that allowed the runner to get in safely...

"I grew up in Oklahoma, and once you start runnin' out there there ain't nothin' to stop you" - Johnny Leonard Roosevelt "Pepper" Martin

by iron duke75 on Jul 30, 2006 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm worried about Eckstein

He's been awful and we can't afford for him to play so bad. He's hit .234 since the all-star break and has a lower OBP then Molina, who's only hit .200 himself. Taguchi has them both beat (.105 BA, .227 OBP).

You have to wonder what was going through TLR's mind today when he filled out his lineup with the first two batters hitting .339 between them.

by rob is back on Jul 30, 2006 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions

Just to clear this up

The replay showed that Pujols caught the ball with his foot on the bag, then his foot briefly came off the bag. He retouched the bag with his foot just before Mabry reached the base. No wonder he argued: he touched the bag twice with the ball before Mabry hit first. But McCarver and Buck quickly said it was a good call. Just like Dusty Baker is a great manager.

by locolawyer on Jul 30, 2006 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Mcarver

passed judgment way to quickly and Joe buck said matter of fact "looks inconclusive to me" funny...it did look in the replay the third or fifth time he did come off. and as old tim pointed out the heel dragged the bag but by that time the guy was safe...

I think though it is clear they need help at 2b luna did ok cept that play but I had issue with that one dp he didnt turn took him along time to get it to eck, and then tim was like eck doesnt have the arm..really, but doesnt help when its routine and the 2b sits on it forever. and need we comment on miles?

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 9:51 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah

Standing up in a Wrigley Field where "Let's Go Cardinals" can be heard over Cub chants is an awesome experience.

But Miles striking out during all of that to end the game with the bases loaded.

That is not.

by aet15 on Jul 29, 2006 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions

sounds like

a bad visa commercial and in case no one has seen it go to this link and bernie has some minor news...

http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=377922&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&star t=0

by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2006 10:35 PM EDT reply actions

Remember Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom?

There was that scene where Indy was forced to drink blood, and fell into the Black Sleep, or something like that, only to be reawakened by Short Round after being burnt?

The Cards need to be burnt. Badly. For the love of God, Michael Barrett, A-Ram, and Juan Pierre aren't nearly as formidable an opponent as Mola Ram and the Thuggee!

by matt reeder on Jul 29, 2006 11:16 PM EDT reply actions

I've just dropped down from the planet Mars

And from the looks of the past 7-hundred-fifty-seven comments, I assume the Cubs have overtaken the Cardinals for first. Is that the case??

by San Diego Smooth Jazz Man on Jul 30, 2006 12:23 AM EDT reply actions

Only if...

...the Cards were to play the Cubs about 20 more times in Chicago.

I keep telling myself that I'd much rather have my team play badly against one team (or city, in this case) and play really well against the rest of the league than to have my team play really badly against the rest of the league and kick the ass of only one other team.

That being said, losing to the Bear Cubs almost always ruins my night. My relationship can't take much more of this.

by EckEqualsClutch on Jul 30, 2006 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions

2B

We desparately need a real 2B: Belliard, Loretta, someone. An everyday, decent hitting, decent fielding 2B. Duncan and JRod are fine for LF; our offensive woes are 2B, C, and since the break, SS.

by SirVLCIV on Jul 30, 2006 1:54 AM EDT reply actions

Well

We just got Belliard, but gave up Luna. It kinda feels like we just traded a younger version of Belliard, and classier one, for an older version of him.

Spitting out profanities when he heard he was traded to us? Oh, great. . . I already want Luna back.

by aet15 on Jul 30, 2006 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions