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checking the ledger

Update [2006-7-12 11:6:19 by lboros]: espn radio is reporting that the astros acquired aubrey huff from the devil rays for two minor leaguers. here's a link from the 'stros official site.[end update]

halfway through spring training i ran a post titled, simply, "moneyball". it analyzed the st louis payroll using a pricing paradigm that cardinal stat consultant mitchel lichtman -- better known as mgl -- had described in an interview. i'll reprint the relevant passage:

Mitchel: I try to counsel the Cards not to spend more than $200,000 per marginal run (on the free agent market). I consider anything less than that to be somewhat of a bargain. Less than $150,000 is a real bargain, and less than $100,000 (almost impossible) is an absolute steal.
the concept of "marginal runs" is pretty standard by now, but just in case you're not familiar with it: a "marginal run" is the production a player contributes above and beyond what a replacement player -- a guy like john gall -- would contribute. if john gall were to play every day at 1st base, he would provide a certain level of production; albert pujols exceeds that level by about 90 runs per year, so we say that pujols is worth 90 marginal runs. at mgl's preferred rate -- ie, $200,000 per marginal run -- the cardinals would have to pay about $18 million per season to acquire comparable production on the free-agent market. the cardinals are only paying pujols $14 million in 2006, which means that in addition to ev'ything else he does, no. 5 is saving the company $4m a year.

we all good with the concept? let's proceed.

baseball prospectus has a variety of metrics to evaluate how many marginal runs a given player is contributing. the most straightforward is VORP (Value Over Replacement Player), an expression of the marginal runs a player contributes with his bat or his pitching arm. then there's FRAR (Fielding Runs Above Replacement), which attempts to capture the player's marginal-run production with the glove. neither metric is perfect, but both are free and readily accessible; just go with them, with the understanding that they're merely estimates.

if we sum a player's VORP and FRAR, we get a rough figure of his value in marginal runs; multiply by $200,000, and you can determine whether or not he is paying his own way. keep in mind that the $200K-per-marginal-run pricing structure applies only to players who are free-agent eligible; the market is obviously a lot cheaper for players who are unable to sell their services to the highest bidder.

let's start with the new acquisitions -- guys jocketty acquired this past off-season. the "marg runs" column in this table contains full-season numbers, extrapolated from each player's performance through the first 87 games. the "value" column represents the player's worth at $200K per marginal run. here we go:

2006
marg runs
value actual
salary
credit/
debit
hancock 25 $5m $327K $4.7m
zpiezio 22 $4.4m $327K $4.1m
looper 18 $3.6m $3.5m $100K
ponson 4.2 $840K $1m -$160K
bennett -4.6 $327K $800K -$450K
spivey --- $0 $1.2m -$1.2m
encarnacion 10.6 $2.1m $3.5m -$1.4m
rincon -- $0 $1.9m -$1.9m
TOTAL $3.8m

basically, walt had a lousy winter but redeemed it with two heads-up acquisitions in spring-training. the looper and encarnacion contracts will both get worse over time, as their dollar values increase and the dividends in marginal runs likely decrease. but for this season, neither one is a disaster. the bottom five guys on this list -- from ponson on down -- consumed $8.4 million (nearly 10 percent of the payroll) without raising the team much above replacement level. but hancock and zpiezio are making significant contributions for the minimum wage, balancing out the ledger sheet nicely. i'm being generous to include hancock and zpiezio on this list, because neither was a free agent in the way we normally think of them -- that is, they weren't productive players who became eligible to sell their services to the highest bidder. they were, on the contrary, expendable players who got released and were fortunate to latch on with another major-league team. but i've got them on the list because they were shrewd value moves, and the point of the exercise is to gauge how well walter is deploying his financial resources.

now we'll turn to the holdover free-agents -- guys on multiyear deals that they signed as free agents before 2005:

2006
marg runs
value actual
salary
credit/
debit
edmonds 37 $7.4m $12m -$4.6m
rolen 96 $19.2m $11m $8.2m
carp'ter 62 $12.4m $5m $7.4m
is'hausen 20 $4m $8.5m -$4.5m
eckstein 45 $9m $3.5m $5.5m
suppan -9 $327K $4m -$3.7m
TOTAL $8.5m

that's very good, especially when you consider the very large number of marginal runs these guys contribute. as a group, they're worth more than 250 marginal runs, or roughly 25 marginal wins over the course of the season. it's the core of the team -- with one very large exception -- and walter has them locked in at very attractive prices.

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walt
should get years of bragging rights over the Eck signing...maybe enough to live down all the bums he signed this winter.

by VanRam on Jul 12, 2006 9:48 AM EDT   0 recs

I'm for overpaying...
at times. Look at the BoSox with Manny Ramirez, a terrible contract, they put him on waivers every year. And in the mean time he wins them championships.

Another is the ChiSox with Konerko... It's an ok contract now, but will likely be bad at the end. Yet they knew they had to suck it up and do it.

I think it's ok to overpay for the top shelf talent. We found Carp in the bargain bin, but if this organization thinks that's going to happen with any regularity, we are in for some mediocre seasons...

by guayzimi on Jul 12, 2006 9:56 AM EDT   0 recs

agreed
under the right circumstances -- ie when you can afford to do it, and when it might make the diff'nce between a championship or a pennant, vs an also-ran year. the cardinals can afford it right now, because they have so many bargains on the roster -- and one more impact player might make a huge difference. hmmmm . . . . . . .

by lboros on Jul 12, 2006 10:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Two choices
1 - overspend for Soriano and/or Dontrelle and try this year to win

2 - dump JEd and Mulder and Marquis and a bunch of others (Spivey, Bigbie, etc) next year, sign 1 FA OF bat and 1 FA impact pitcher, resign Suppan & Bennet & Spiezio, put Adam and Anthony in the rotation and go for next year without touching the farm.

Honestly, I would select #2, because it can open a new winning cycle, while #1 smells too much of "do or die".

GO CARDS!!!

by SuperSeve on Jul 12, 2006 10:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

dont forget
that acquiring dontrelle would be the same as spending the money on the impact #2 pitcher. dontrelle would be a franchise pitcher and eventual successor at #1. however, it appears the mets are willing to give up either milledge or pelfrey...and there is just no way the cardinals could match that. they appear to be after a bat more than an arm right now anyhow. miguel cabrera anyone?

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 10:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Vidro....
Anybody else giving any thought to acquring Jose Vidro?  I think he would make a good second hole hitter (.303.361/.400)  His career Slug is more then 60 points higher then this year.  He gets on base at a decent clip, hits enough homer runs to keep the pitcher honest and is an upgrade over the current Miles/Luna situation.  

Also, he would come at a much cheaper price then Soriano, who is at 272/338/549.  In front of Albert and behind Eck, I would rather have the higher average and better OBP.  

by Brock20 on Jul 12, 2006 10:59 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

vidro
would only save us 3 million. sorianos numbers will likely rise hitting #2 in front of pujols.

i would prefer not to get a rent-a-player...but if we can get soriano without giving up reyes i would be okay with it.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 11:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Manny Ramirez,,,
If the Red Sox did that again this year, somebody should actually pick him up. I mean, he's Manny effin' Ramirez.

by matt reeder on Jul 12, 2006 5:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Great analysis
Clear and easy to understand.    I dunno how the guy arrives at the $200k number, but I like the follow up analysis.

how old is Eck?  I've always thought he was at least somewhat of a bargain.  And I'm glad to see the numbers on Rolen be so far on the positive side.

Thanks, lboros.

by sdrone on Jul 12, 2006 10:26 AM EDT   0 recs

Yeah
What I always find amazing is that there were a number of people who said we were probably overpaying for Eck when we first got him.

We all knew that St. Louis would love him.  Spunky underdog type who never stops working.

I think we got the best out of that 3 shortstop free -agent dance.

Eckstein is 31 now I think.

by dontEATnachos on Jul 12, 2006 10:41 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i dont
know if you could say we got the best of the 3. wasnt it cabrera, renteria and eck? cabrera and renteria are also having fantastic years. depending on the money numbers it would be hard to say. lboros...you should do the numbers for eck, renteria, and cabrera and let us know how they come out.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 10:57 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed
If you look at this years numbers, I'm not sure that Eck beats out the other two.  Last year, it seemed the cards had the best of the three but this year I miss Renteria more and more.

I think the holes in left and Jimmy's lower production have made it more apparent but this team just has so much less pop than the 2004 team.  In 04 at every position, other than, 2b we pretty much had power.  Even Matheny had a bit more pop than Molina (which I realize isn't saying much).  Now the bottom of the order doesn't scare anybody.  Renteria was a big part of that lineup and scared people in a way that Eck will never do.

But don't get me wrong, I think Eck is great and brings a lot to the team.  I'm just not sure I wouldn't rather still have Edgar.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on Jul 12, 2006 11:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

he's great
but keep in mind that means another position would need to fill the leadoff spot.  

To me, that leadoff spot is worth a lot.

by sdrone on Jul 12, 2006 11:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

about cost
I mean, for the Braves, Renteria didn't cost that much.  But keep in mind how much the Red Sox paid for him.  If he'd signed in St. Louis it would be like $10M a year or something where we get Eck for $3.5.

Cabrera is having a good season but is still batting under .300.  I think I'd take having Eckstein up in the 9th trying to get on base rather than the extra power you get with a Renteria/Cabrera type.

I mean, we've got a hole in left field that we should be able to fill that will get us those numbers (and maybe a decent #2 hitter).

by dontEATnachos on Jul 12, 2006 11:22 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

true his
average is below 300...but his obp is .354 to ecks .371, which is not a huge difference. cabrera has 5 more homers, 28 more rbi, 7 more steals...

i am defiantely happy with eckstein though. we just need a 2 hole hitter.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 11:26 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Really I agree
With all of these comments.

I guess I'm just a bit embarassed to wear my band of sluggers (circa 2004) shirt anymore.

Just doesn't to apply to the Eck, Miles, JRod, Molina crew.

OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on Jul 12, 2006 11:43 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

we certainly
dont have the murderers row circa 2004, that is for sure.

although we didnt have squat for a pitching staff that year either...i wish we could get great hitting and great pitching all in the same season for once.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 11:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well
Isn't it always like this though?

Half small ball, hit for contact guys (eck, miles, jrod, luna) and half power guys (pujols, rolen, edmonds).

We just need another viable bat (and we'll just have to deal with encarnacion - where rallies often go to die and molina) to have that 50-50 power/small ball split.  

by dontEATnachos on Jul 12, 2006 11:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

molina really
isnt much of a rally killer, he hits real well with risp.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 11:55 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah,
Sorry if it wasn't clear that my comment was about Encarnacion.

I don't mind Molina if there are guys on base because he's been pretty good in those situations.

by dontEATnachos on Jul 12, 2006 1:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Juan
is batting .289 with RISP, slightly above his overall average.

by STLEdge on Jul 12, 2006 2:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah, yeah, yeah
we all know he's a lot better than he used to be.  And I don't cringe as much if he's at the plate now but I doubt that you'll be able to convince me that he doesn't ground out weakly to the infield (often for that wonderful DP) way too much.

by dontEATnachos on Jul 12, 2006 2:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Free Agents '05-06
I think in hindsight we can look back on this winter and we find there was NO impact players available to spend money on (Aside from possibly Nomar and that was a HUGE injury risk then and now).  There was not a young outfielder with the potential to be an impact bat, especially.  You look back on Giles/Burnett right now and breath a sigh of relief that we didn't sign them.

The owners have made it clear what they want to do.  They are fine with the bargain players and will overpay a little for mid tier guys like Encarnacion/ Looper, but they will only open the vaults for guys like Rolen, Edmonds, Issi type players (which they have proven they will do).  

I'm pretty cool with this philosophy.  We put in a competitive offer for somebody that ALMOST fit the bill (Burnett minus injury history/ more history of production and I think we would gone further for him.  Fortunately, we didn't).  

Unfortunately, the perinial All-Star type players aren't ubundant in the free agent market, and we don't have a lot of resources to trade.  I just don't see an impact hitter falling in our lap that fits this criteria (the only possible exception is an aging star like Larry Walker, but the other team will need to pick up some of the salary).

I hate to say it, but I think what you see is what you get for the 2006 Cardinals...

"It takes pitching, hitting and defense. Any two can win. All three make you unbeatable". Joe Garagiola

by MRCARD on Jul 12, 2006 10:48 AM EDT   0 recs

what you're describing
is a very conservative formula -- spend enough to be competitive ev'y year, but never take the risks that might elevate the team into a dominant class.

but in a league that's this weak, and with the core of HOF-class talent the cardinals possess, shouldn't they be dominating?

by lboros on Jul 12, 2006 11:12 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The overall key...
is developing your own talent.  If you can develop your own talent to fill those mid-tier positions (like Suppan's spot in the rotation), you save so much money that it enables you to go after impact players.  We're saving money on Pujols and Rolen because we locked them in early at good prices.  

I love the moneyball philosophy of not overspending on closers - because more times then not, when you're leading a game with 3 outs to go - you're going to win.  

I would like to see the club go for it this year, but I don't know if they have the expendable prospects to allow them to.

by Toddius396 on Jul 12, 2006 4:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

rincon
I did not realize we threw so much money at that bum.  

by Schnake on Jul 12, 2006 11:03 AM EDT   0 recs

1.9 million
for a middle reliever with a career 3.58 era. he was coming off a 4.34 era year.

but if he were working with dunc...he probably would be having a good year. the cardinals do wonders with their relievers.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 11:05 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Managing Match-Ups
TLR does a great job of putting his bench players and relievers in optimal circumstances for their success. I'm not justifying his contract, but isn't he one of, if not the top, all-time holds percentage leader in MLB? I remember reading that and it blowing my mind. Relievers holding the opposition has been a huge problem this season.

by bgh on Jul 12, 2006 3:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

how can that be
if his career era is so high?

by Schnake on Jul 12, 2006 5:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

this is a bit non-sequitor, but...
Who else is just ecstatic that a Ranger, a Padre, a free-swinging Brewer and a Marlin who is afraid to dive decided that the NL won't have home-field advantage in the playoffs?

If Garner had put Rolen in the game, the game might have ended on that Konerko ground ball. I'm pretty sure Cabrera was standing in the dugout.

When we have to open the World Series in frigid Chicago or scary-as-hell Yankee Stadium (or, gulp, Fenway), Jock should send  Cabrera a thank you note...and then trade for him and put him back in left where he belongs.

Of course, if we're actually fortunate enough to make the Series, I probably won't care. It's just my major argument with the "This Time (and last time, and the time before that) it Counts" charade.

by itsalemmon1019 on Jul 12, 2006 11:10 AM EDT   0 recs

Huff
That sounds like a pretty solid deal for the Astros. I don't know much about the two minor leaguers they gave up, but adding Huff can only help the 'Stros. Lane's been terrible for them this year and Huff has been playing fairly well lately. He was one of the guys I would have liked Jocketty to go after since he seems to have been available relatively cheap.

by stlnd on Jul 12, 2006 11:12 AM EDT   0 recs

uhh...yikes
huff is tearing the cover off the ball after starting off slow due to injuries...this is not good news for the cardinals or brewers. i would have loved to make a deal for huff, he is very versatile...first, third and outfield. and he wouldnt really break the bank, he is only 28. very savvy trade by the 'stros.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 11:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Here's the stats on the Houston minor leaguers
Both guys were playing for Double-A Corpus Christi.

Talbot: 22 yrs old (turning 23 in October), 6-4, 3.39 ERA, 90.1 IP, 94 H, 29 BB, 96 K

Zobrist: 25 yrs old, .327 AVG/.434 OBP/.473 SLG, 3 HR, 30 RBI, 6 3B, 9 SB, 55 BB, 46 K

Both actually seem like decent prospects, so maybe Walt just didn't have enough chips to work with, at least among the players he was willing to deal. Still, I would've been a big fan of seeing Huff in a Cardinal uniform and patrolling left field.

by stlnd on Jul 12, 2006 11:25 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

baseball america
neither of those guys are top 10 prospects in the astros system, but they do have these notes...

Best Strike-Zone Discipline: Ben Zobrist
Best Changeup: Mitch Talbot

and from a houston astros blog...

9-Ben Zobrist, SS, L/R, 6'3" 200, DOB: 5/26/81
One big time shot on Zobrist is his age and his level of play. While he definitely has the talent to be a major league infielder, he has been slowed by indecision. Zobrist has good defensive skills and good offensive skills. His speed is also pretty good along with his base running ability. I definitely think Zobrist would be the likely candidate to replace Everett if he were to leave this year. His defense and maturity alone would be enough for me to give him a late season call up. His great pro debut says that he could be ready sooner rather then later. I expect to see Ben get a call sometime in September or possibly even a look this spring should the Astros lose Everett via trade.

2005 Stats
A (Lexington)-.304/.415/.413, 2 HR, 47/35 BB/K in 247 ABs, 16 SB
A (Salem)-.333/.475/.496, 3 HR, 37/17 BB/K in 141 ABs, 2 SB

http://insidethedugout.blogspot.com/2006/01/houston-astros-top-10-prospects.html

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 11:30 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sickels Had Zobrist Rated 8th
among Astros prospects in his preseason rankings. Talbot wasn't in the top 20.

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2006/2/9/14106/42394

by stlnd on Jul 12, 2006 11:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Talbot...
seems like he has been much better this year in double-a than he was last year in high single-a. Maybe that's why the d-rays targeted him even though he's not highly regarded.

See http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/Mitch-Talbot.shtml

by guayzimi on Jul 12, 2006 2:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Baseball Musings
...post on the trade:

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/016011.php

Quote on how Huff affects the 'Stros:

"...He gives them flexiblity as he can play third, first and right. Lane goes to minors and Ensberg will get less playing time.

"I hope this isn't a long term move with Ensberg and Huff. I assume Morgan is still recovering from his injury. A healthy Endsberg is a better player than Huff, and I'm not sure a hurt Ensberg isn't a better player."

by bgh on Jul 12, 2006 4:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Win Shares
Anyone got up to date Win Shares for the season?

by Just Rope Ball on Jul 12, 2006 11:19 AM EDT   0 recs

How Did Walt Miss This Deal?
The Astros acquired Huff for two Double A players?!  How'd they get him so cheap, and how'd Walt miss that?!  

Here's what Houston gave away:

Talbot, 22, RHP
6-4 with a 3.39 ERA (34ER/90.1IP) in 18 appearances (17 starts) for Double A Corpus Christi this season
Seventh in the Texas League in ERA and third with 96 strikeouts.

Zobrist, 25,
BA:.327 (103x315) for Corpus Christi this year
three home runs, 25 doubles, six triples, and 30 RBI
Second in the Texas League in batting this season. Zobrist was named a Texas League All-Star last month, and he has earned All-Star honors in each of his professional seasons

Is it really the case that St.L couldn't match this offer?

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Jul 12, 2006 11:25 AM EDT   0 recs

maybe
walt just wasnt interested or has something else in the works? i sure hope if he pulls off a trade for a left fielder the guy is much better than huff, because huff is no slouch.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 11:31 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's possible
that the PTB have put a spending limit on what Jock can trade for; they've done it before($2 million for a 2B).

by cardsrul on Jul 12, 2006 11:36 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sure seems like we have the middling arms
at Double A to match that offer.  Huff's not expensive and is hitting very well.  Another missed opportunity.  He's one of those Craig Wilson/David Delluci (although probably a little better than both) types that would compliment our core well.  Additionally he's left handed and would slot decently in the 6th slot or the 2 hole.

Walt needs to pull the trigger on an everyday LF.  Our OPS over there is bad... (see 2005 vs. 2006 Offensive Production Diary by bgh for an excellent breakdown)

by azruavatar on Jul 12, 2006 11:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hard to say, but
there are OTHER smart GMs in baseball as well, who are capable of bringing in good trades under the radar.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 12, 2006 12:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

World Series Winners Marginal Runs
Is there any marginal run information for recent world series teams?  If we use the $200,000 per marginal run formula and multiply this by the marginal run total of recent world series winners, we should have an idea of what a competitive team salary should be.  

by BigJawnMize on Jul 12, 2006 11:42 AM EDT   0 recs

Vote
Hey folks,
The #3 cardinals prospect diary is up so head over and vote please.   Just for the record the list so far is:
  1. Colby Rasmus
  2. Jamie Garcia
  3. ?????
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/story/2006/7/12/122014/528

Thanks for voting.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 12, 2006 12:34 PM EDT   0 recs

Jimmy
The one thing that sticks out to me is that according to that metric JEd is worth $7.4 Million.  He is having a pretty bad year, but starting to heat up so I assume his value will go up.  Anyways Jimmy is in line for $10 Mil next year if we pick up his option (I think), but there is a $3 Mil buyout which is a sunk cost.  Therefore Jimmy is basically going to be making $7 Mil for the purpose of something like this since the $3 mil is going to be paid no matter what.  That means that it would be more than worth it to pick up that option in my opinion.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 12, 2006 12:37 PM EDT   0 recs

also
while it may be a long shot, jimmy could renegotiate his contract for maybe a 2 year deal at for maybe 6 mil a year..3 mil bonus?

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 12:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Rasmus in the Sunshine State
First time poster, long time reader.

LB, great site....a must read every day.

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but Colby's been promoted to Palm Beach.

I'm stoked because I've followed Colby since high school, and my fiancee covered him doing sports in GA (he even gave me his first autograph as a Cardinal an hour after he was drafted.)

Now, I live in SW Florida and I can't wait to see him when the PB Cards come to play the Ft. Myers Miracle.

by core blog on Jul 12, 2006 12:39 PM EDT   0 recs

Welcome!!
I saw Colby with Quad Cities, let us know how he looks in person down FL way.  
"Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer." - Ted Williams

by WiscCard on Jul 12, 2006 1:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Little Mac
" and designated minor league infielder Joe McEwing for assignment."

Looks like we have a replacement for Miles.  Give Joe Mac a minor league deal ASAP.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 12, 2006 12:42 PM EDT   0 recs

we already
have a replacement for miles...his name is hector luna.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 12:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hector...whoopsie
...there goes the ball ..Luna?  No, I don't think so.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 12, 2006 12:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, there it goes
over the wall once in a while, too.  Hector, 2nd base, 2nd base, Hector.  Aaron, may I introduce you to Mr. Pine?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 12, 2006 12:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you are
judging hector by his 2 errors at second base all year? 4 errors at second base in 72 games at second base...not too shabby.

and joe mc is a career .251 hitter with a .302 obp...no thanks

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 1:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

espn radio
they are reporting that soriano WILL BE traded before the all-star break.  no if's, and's, or but's.  

cardinals were mentioned as a leading contender for him.  using the word "a" instead of "the" leading contender.  there are others in the mix but the cards are consistently mentioned.  

still not convinced it's going to happen.

by busch league on Jul 12, 2006 1:05 PM EDT   0 recs

They're reporting TODAY
that Soriano will be traded before the All Star Break?

by sdrone on Jul 12, 2006 1:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, that seems odd...
...unless the deal is today.

Phillips listed the Cardinals as the #1 suitor, followed by a few other teams, one of which the Angels.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 12, 2006 1:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Remember,
this is the guy who signed Mo Vaughan. Phillips has about as much credibility as a piece of roadkill...

by cardsrul on Jul 12, 2006 1:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

maybe not so odd...
the idea of soriano being traded has been brought up alot during the first half of the season.  however, i know the nat's have been quick to say that he's not going anywhere.  now, i'm not sure anybody bought that...probably more of a pr/posturing claim, but that's what they have been saying.

apparently, now the nats are saying..."come one, come all."  

that's just one guy's theory though.

by busch league on Jul 12, 2006 1:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This rumor from Bernie's Press Box
Marlins get:   2 prospects and Kearns
Reds get:      Willis, Tejada
O's get:        Felipe Lopez, Scott Hatteberg

I'm not buying it, but I figured I'd try and keep my fellow VEB's informed.

Reportedly reported on ESPN radio.

by stash3630 on Jul 12, 2006 1:35 PM EDT   0 recs

hmm i dunno
the reds would have to call up joey votto to play first...unless they moved dunn there, but then they wouldnt have a left fielder or a right fielder. it seems like the reds would be losing way to much just to gain a pitcher and a shortstop (who really isnt an upgrade over felipe, who is much younger)

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 1:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i thought
the rumor was they were going to move griffey to first to protect him from injury.
http://rabidredbird.blogspot.com

by gthedamned on Jul 12, 2006 1:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

well if this happens
then they have holes in center and right if the trade went down...i suppose freel could play center, but he wasnt very good when he replaced griffey and played everyday.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 1:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Freel
could easily play the outfield

by eeyorethedog on Jul 12, 2006 1:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

last i heard this rumor
they were still touting freel as an outfielder and strong bat... i don't follow the reds closely enough to know if he's slid from that perch...
http://rabidredbird.blogspot.com

by gthedamned on Jul 12, 2006 1:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

he is pretty good
hitting .298 with a .383 obp....822 ops. 20 stolen bases.

i guess i just remember the part of the year where griffey went out and his average dropped from 340 to 230...i had him on my fantasy team at that point too.

he seems to be a pretty capable player and has that all out playing style where he gives everything every play that i enjoy.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 2:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Wait, did you just say
Miggy Tejada's not an upgrade on F. Lopez?  That's a remarkable assertion.  It might even be true, in about 5 years.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 12, 2006 1:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

my bad
i didnt know felipes stats for this year.

but their stat line from last year was similar, id probably even give a nudge to felipe.

tejada: 26 homers, 98 rbi, 40 walks, 5 steals, 89 runs, .304 avg, .349 obp, .515 slug. 654 at bats.

lopez: 23 homers, 85 rbi, 57 walks, 15 steals, 97 runs, .291 avg, .352 obp, .486 slug. 580 at bats.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 1:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

huh?
They would get Tejada AND dontrelle?

I call shenanagins on that, even I couldn't dream up something like that.

by jroman on Jul 12, 2006 1:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

well yeah...
but they would be giving up 2 prospects (homer bailey, i bet) a young right fielder, a young shortstop who is turning into the best in the NL, their starting first baseman...all for a pitcher and a shortstop. this leaves them with holes at right and first.

by lopey986 on Jul 12, 2006 1:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

the
O's look like they're getting screwed too.  As I said, I'm not buying it, just doing my part to contributee to the wildfire that is trade rumors.  :)  

Did you guys know that Alex Cora hit Zambrano on the pitching elbow with a fungo bat yesterday?  Now THAT'S some Cub Luck for ya!

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