greenie goblins
as far as i can tell, the regular media aren't touching yesterday's disclosures at deadspin re albert pujols' trainer. haven't found an article anywhere; checked the dailies in st louis, phoenix, and kansas city, and there's nothing in print. yet. but keith olbermann mentioned it on his tv news show last night, according to somebody over at bernie miklasz's forum, and they say dan patrick and olbermann -- without naming names, although they claim to have seen them -- were talking about how the (inevitable) leaking of the blacked-out names will "rock baseball."
how prominent of a player would have to be implicated, directly or indirectly, for baseball to be "rocked" by this scandal? i can only think of three: roger clemens. derek jeter. albert pujols. these are the only guys who transcend the sport -- are household names as joe dimaggio used to be -- and haven't already been linked to steroids.
but if deadspin's information is accurate -- and i believe that it is -- does that truly implicate albert as a steroid abuser? you'd have to be high on some pretty strong amphetamines to draw that conclusion, based on current information. all the affadavit says is that 'redacted' (presumably mihlfeld) -- and i'm now quoting from page 14 of the affadavit -- "once referred him [grimsley] to an amphetamine source." redacted probably shouldn't have done that, but let's put it into context. on page 12 of the affadavit, grimsley says that "until last year, Major League clubhouses had coffee pots labeled 'leaded' and 'unleaded' for the players, indicating coffee with amphetamines and without." until last year -- ie, through the 2004 season -- mihlfeld worked for grimsley's team, the kansas city royals. so if the statement about spiked coffee is accurate -- and it's right there in the affadavit, with no redactions -- then the royals were directly supplying amphetamines to grimsley and all the other guys in mihlfeld's clubhouse. the team was doing that -- mihlfeld's employer.
if his employer was openly supplying these drugs in the clubhouse to every player, why would mihlfeld hesitate to direct one player to other sources of amphetamines? why would he consider that an ethical breach of some kind? for that matter, why should we be surprised that mihlfeld knew where to send grimsley for greenies? somebody was supplying the royals' training staff with whatever they brewed into their "leaded" coffee.
if that's as far as it goes -- mihlfeld referred grimsley to a source who could provide amphetamines -- well whoooooop-de-doo. that don't prove nothin' -- not about chris mihlfeld, and certainly not about albert pujols.
but what if it goes farther than that?
what if we learn that mihlfeld routinely sent players to the same drug pusher he referred grimsley to -- that it was part of a pattern? what if we find out that greenie usage was an integral part of mihlfeld's training methods -- that he "prescribed" them, if you will, to enhance his clients' results? then it becomes considerably murkier. and if it should surface that grimsley was not the only mihlfeld client to use hgh, i will have a hard time believing that pujols is clean.
we don't know these things yet, so it's way too soon to accuse pujols of anything. but it's also too soon to say, with full confidence, that he has never taken hgh. i'm sure we'll learn a lot more about chris mihlfeld in the coming days and weeks -- and what we learn will either deflect suspicion away from albert, or intensify it.
may it be the former.
joe strauss claims the cardinals' trade talks are intensifying. wasn't that really, really important a couple days ago? yesterday morning? . . . it still is, and will soon return to the forefront of our thoughts. the sooner the better.
a final note: gateway redbirds has posted an interview with colby rasmus, using questions submitted by forum members.
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Comments
It's still too early
by BleacherBum on Jun 9, 2006 9:40 AM EDT 0 recs
Pujols getting tested...
by lopey986 on
Jun 9, 2006 10:06 AM EDT
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Reds, or Redlegs?
I talked about this at the end of the last post, but doesn't this smell like the communist witch hunt? Anytime somebody has "links" to somebody else that "knows" a drug supplier, they are guilty in the court of public opinion. They are now under strong suspicion of using illegal performance enhancing drugs. Really? We can make that leap?
Seriously folks, this is getting out of hand. I respect your opinion tremendously lboros, but you're feeding the monster right now. Let it die unless there is some actual proof.
P.S. For those of you that don't know, the Reds changed their name to the Redlegs for a while due to communist scare of the 50's.
by MRCARD on
Jun 9, 2006 10:09 AM EDT
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i see your point
taking hgh is neither legal nor constitutionally protected.
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 10:12 AM EDT
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Legalily
P.S. The whole argument against people that had a communist connection is that they were spying on the government (treason). That is a much worse crime than taking HGH.
by MRCARD on
Jun 9, 2006 10:16 AM EDT
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there's still no comparison
whereas in this case, even guilty parties continue to ply their trade. no innocent party has been significantly harmed, as far as i can tell --- beyond having unflattering things said and whispered about them. but who (that is innocent) has lost work because of mere suspicion? who has been shunned by their community? how many guys have been hauled before congress and forced to testify?
that's what happened in the mccarthy era -- and it wasn't about rooting out spies (altho that's what mccarthy claimed), it was about intimidating people with certain political leanings.
i just don't think the analogy holds
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 12:20 PM EDT
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Actually it was
by robdouth on
Jun 9, 2006 2:38 PM EDT
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What if...
Don't you think that's like the many actors in Hollywood that couldn't find work after they were "implicated"? Maybe it's not a perfect analogy, but I definitely think you can see a corollation.
by MRCARD on
Jun 9, 2006 3:05 PM EDT
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if mihlfeld is cleared
sort of like the todd helton thing from last year. wayne hagin specifically named his as a steroid user ---- helton vigorously denied using, and hagin had to backpedal like crazy. last i heard, no harm to helton; on the contrary, he's widely regarded as beyond suspicion.
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 3:09 PM EDT
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I respectfully disagree lboros....
by BleacherBum on
Jun 9, 2006 3:26 PM EDT
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no comparison
that hasn't happened to mihlfeld.
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 3:48 PM EDT
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Sure there's a comparison
Jewell was initially tabbed as a villian on information and belief, was dissected ad nasuem by the press, and then had his claims of innocence vindicated when the truth was revealed.
Mihlfeld, so far, has been tabbed as a bad guy on the basis of an unidentified source claiming to know what's behind a black smear on an affidavit, and has been discussed at great length in the blogworld. Hopefully, his claims of innocence will be vindicated when (if?) the truth is revealed.
The severity of their charges differ, but their positions immediately after their names were dragged into the middle of an unfortunate event- guilty in the court of public opinion - are the same.
I'm just echoing what most are saying here: let's see some proof before we start convicting anyone.
by flynn on
Jun 9, 2006 4:29 PM EDT
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actually, i and about
he has had defenders elsewhere as well.
i still don't think there's any comparison between what happened jewell and what happened to mihlfeld. here's what would be analogous: the feds stage a raid of mihlfeld's shop, and the 6 o'clock news is full of footage of white-gloved agents carrying "evidence" away from the "crime scene." copies of the warrants are publicized, full of inaccurate information about mihlfeld's activities. a grand jury is convened to indict mihlfeld . . . .
that would be analogous. what happened to jewell was on a scale that materially changed his life circumstances. (ditto that scientist down at los alamos, can't think of his name . . . . wei?)
whereas, if mihlfeld turns out not to be mr 'redacted,' this will blow over and he'll go on training athletes just as he did before his name ever came up.
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 5:04 PM EDT
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Not what I said.
I never claimed that Mihlfeld had to deal with what Jewell went through exactly, or that the magnitude of what he was purportedly involved in was the same. You did. I used Jewell as my comparison because I hope Mihlfeld, like Jewell, will go down as a person initially charged with somehting only to eventually have his name cleared. Comparisons can be made between disparate people who have only certain things in common. You just limit your comparison to certain things, which is what I did when I spelled it all out. Hopefully, most people caught my drift.
by flynn on
Jun 9, 2006 11:22 PM EDT
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you are saying
and i'm saying the experiences of these two men are not comparable at all. what chris mihlfeld is experiencing is not at all comparable to what richard jewell is experiencing. it is comparable to what todd helton experienced.
for that matter, we don't even know if mihlfeld is falsely accused. he says his name isn't in the report; we'll find out sooner or later if he's telling the truth.
by lboros on
Jun 10, 2006 10:00 AM EDT
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excuse me,
as long as back in here, more hot air: the severity of the charges isn't the distinction i'm drawing. what makes these two cases different is the authority of the accuser. mihlfeld has been accused by a website that has no legal standing, and only a modest standing in the court of public opinion; jewell was accused by the f-b-freakin-i, which had the power to seize his property, compel the testimony of his family and friends, and initiate a prosecution that might lead to jewell's being put in jail for years and years.
that's why i don't think you can compare them. mihlfeld is a suspect in the court of public opinion; jewell was a suspect in the actual court system. big difference.
by lboros on
Jun 10, 2006 10:14 AM EDT
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all I'm saying is...
Yes. And that's all I'm saying. I thought I qualified that by the disclaimers of "not under the same microscope" and "not the same severity." You keep going beyond what I'm saying in order to ridicule my comparison.
by flynn on
Jun 10, 2006 2:58 PM EDT
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i'm not trying to ridicule the comparison
i disagree with those comparisons, and i think they are faulty. that's not ridicule, it's just a diff'nce of opinion.
i've already explained why your disclaimers (viz "less severe" and "not under same microscope") don't wash with me. no need to repeat myself. but i'm not reading too much into what you said; "richard jewell" carries very specific connotations, and if you didn't mean to invoke them then you shouldn't have brought up his name.
by lboros on
Jun 11, 2006 10:56 AM EDT
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Interesting point but...
I'm also not sure how Helton has come off better by being implicated. I don't see any new endorsements coming his way and he went through a lot of crap. I doubt if HE would say that he's better off. The only thing that has happened is that the speculation has died down. Maybe in some people's minds they think he was exhonerated, but I bet you there are other people that think Hagin just didn't have any proof and that he's guilty. Every time the Cards play the Rockies and Hagen is around it gets brought up again.
by MRCARD on
Jun 9, 2006 3:53 PM EDT
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i live in denver
if i could have all that at the cost of somebody occasionally whispering that i was a cheater, i would grab it in a heartbeat
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 4:12 PM EDT
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Well aware of the Redlegs,
by bgh on
Jun 9, 2006 10:40 AM EDT
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well said MRCARD
by BleacherBum on
Jun 9, 2006 12:40 PM EDT
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speaking of the Reds
Lets all hope that Albert is clean and can join Griffey in that truly elite status.
by Columbus Jets on
Jun 9, 2006 12:43 PM EDT
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oh come on
by PGeorge on
Jun 9, 2006 1:23 PM EDT
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alex rodriguez
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 1:26 PM EDT
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ethics
however, even if he did only refer Grimsley, it does mean that he recommended to one of his clients using substances such as HGH to enhance his results.
I have no idea what kind of code of ethics governs athletic trainers, but i can't imagine that recommending harmful substances is an ethically sound practice for an athletic trainer.
I said it earlier today, Albert needs to drop this guy if it does in fact come out that he connected Grimsley to a pusher. ties with that will easily lead to instant assumptions and he'll be forever guilty in the eyes of the public
by VanRam on Jun 9, 2006 9:54 AM EDT 0 recs
but there's no evidence
if we call out mihlfeld, then there are probably a lot of head trainers for big-league clubs who have at least as much to answer for . . .
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 10:05 AM EDT
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but
it also brings up another question, why would Mihlfeld suggest another source for amphetamines if the club was providing it? The first rule of drug use is to get it where you can in the easiest, least risky way. (we all know finding speed in Jackson County, MO isn't a difficult proposition.)
So, no, it's not particularly alarming, but it is still unethical and VERY suspicious.
if the trainers are key links in the supply of drugs to ball players, then go after them.
I still think that when/if Mihlfeld's name comes out that AP will have to dump him. Look at all the speculation about AP now, can you imagine what will happen if he's still connected to this guy?
Look at it this way, Tom Delay is a good friend to lots of schmucks on capitol hill, but because he's so tied to scandal the other elected bozos have to distance themselves from a know crook, even when that known crook is a good friend and even better fund raiser.
by VanRam on
Jun 9, 2006 10:45 AM EDT
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it is suspicious, no doubt
i need to see evidence of a pattern of HGH (or other steroid) use among his clients before i conclude that mihlfeld knowingly helped grimsley obtain HGH.
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 10:50 AM EDT
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true
by VanRam on
Jun 9, 2006 10:56 AM EDT
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Look, the guy has to make a living
by sdrone on
Jun 9, 2006 11:55 AM EDT
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Greenies
Now, HGH is a whole 'nother story. IF (big IF) Albert were to be implicated as an HGH user, it could very well ruin baseball for me. The next couple weeks this story will definately heat up and we will find out some names and once someone questions Albert about his trainer we will get his side of the story. Should be interesting.
by lopey986 on Jun 9, 2006 10:03 AM EDT 0 recs
Too early to worry
Living in Phoenix, we get a lot of information on this ordeal. A local news station here did an interview with Lance Williams (co-author of Game of Shadows), and he said that most of the names come from the Orioles team that Grimsley played with. Another name that would "rock baseball" would be Cal Ripken, wouldn't it? I believe that Grimsley played with him, but then again I could be wrong.
by BigdJC on Jun 9, 2006 10:08 AM EDT 0 recs
mihlfield
by dmb60614 on
Jun 9, 2006 10:38 AM EDT
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very interesting
Not definitive, but certainly another reason to suspend judgment.
by DCGreg on
Jun 9, 2006 11:26 AM EDT
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i
To me its like deffending a friend..albert says he's clean i support him..if that friend lie you at least support them until the bitter end..And i have been wrong when people lied to me...just my opinion
by punchinjudy on
Jun 9, 2006 1:30 PM EDT
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"no solid proof on bonds"?
Unknowingly or not, there's your Bonds proof.
by 26thMan on
Jun 9, 2006 7:07 PM EDT
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no, ripken
but he did play on the yankees when they were in the midst of their world champ'ship run. jeter, clemens, mussina, rivera . . . .
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 10:39 AM EDT
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Is Pujols Clean?
I am hoping that he is clean. I want to believe that he is clean but I will not be naive about this and blatantly trump his innocence before knowing all the facts.
I do know that the court of public opinion has already begun. I live in NY. If Chris Mihlfeld is implicated in the affidavit and people in NY hear of the connection between Mihlfeld and Pujols, most people will accuse him of using. This is not fair but it's a fact of life. Human nature at it's worst. Of course, if it was Derek Jeter's personal trainer then he would be clean because he is Derek Jeter and he is a Yankee and he can do no wrong.
The problem is that we are now seeing that performance enhancing drugs have been and maybe continue to be prevalent in MLB. Because of this, everyone will be guilty until proven innocent. A couple of weeks ago, Trevor Hoffman had an interesting quote in the San Diego Union-Trib: "Can people trust again?"
Here is the quote:
"Maybe he's being unfairly judged because of what's gone on," says Padres closer Trevor Hoffman, who often has spoken out against drugs. "Too much has gone on now to have that trust. Obviously, you have to look at his division (the NL Central) and that every ballpark is a joke and he's getting pitched to. And he's in the prime of his life (26). He's not doing it at 35.
"I know Albert made that comment about seeing the ball and hitting the ball, but we have guys taking 40 home run seasons into 60 home run seasons. Until you find out what's inside a particular animal, you can't pass judgment, but your eyes don't deceive you. The quick answer is not going to come. Can people trust again? It's nice to have a policy in place, but I don't know if we can get the trust back with this policy. Let's start taking blood and tissue samples."
by jdubya on Jun 9, 2006 10:09 AM EDT 0 recs
but if pitchers around the league...
by gthedamned on
Jun 9, 2006 1:55 PM EDT
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One thing I think you are all over looking
by BigMac545 on Jun 9, 2006 10:30 AM EDT 0 recs
yes, but grimsley
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 10:44 AM EDT
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that's the
He technically didn't ask for an HGH/roids course, and redacted technically didn't provide him with a source for those things. the trick is whether or not he made this referral knowing that Grimsley could get those extras. question for the lawyers out there, isn't this called plausible deniability or something like that?
by VanRam on
Jun 9, 2006 10:55 AM EDT
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we don't disagree
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 10:56 AM EDT
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you're right
still, what nasty situation all of this is.
side note: check out King Kaufman's column at Salon from yesterday for really good perspective on this Grimsley/drugs in baseball mess.
http://www.salon.com/sports/col/kaufman/2006/06/08/thursday/index.html
by VanRam on
Jun 9, 2006 11:28 AM EDT
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Referral
We don't really know the situation. And we can spend all our time trying to divine the names from the affadavit but we still don't know for sure.
After arguing that there is some implicit guilt most of yesterday, I can certainly see the doubt now (after a nights sleep on it).
by dontEATnachos on
Jun 9, 2006 11:17 AM EDT
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I dont want to admit it but...
by BigMac545 on
Jun 9, 2006 11:21 AM EDT
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I agree but...
by BigMac545 on
Jun 9, 2006 11:16 AM EDT
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the affidavit
The point is, these affidavits are carefully worded to be as broad and inclusive as possible, while still being truthful testimony. The fact that information is not included is important. We should not assume anything that is not in the affidavit (and in some respects, it actually suggests that information not included is not true, or else it would have been included).
by Westy on
Jun 9, 2006 11:10 AM EDT
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What needs to happen...
The questions are going to come and that is going to make the story credible for mainstream media. However, if the Cardinals get out there and put all the information they can out to clear Albert's name, then they can save his reputation. Otherwise, once this hits the local news around the country, Albert Pujols (the future of baseball) will be nothing but the butt of jokes.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2006 11:05 AM EDT 0 recs
we saw what happened the last time Albert got
-SIGH- His career numbers have not had the dramatic changes of other performance enhancers. He has that going for him.
by Schnake on
Jun 9, 2006 11:32 AM EDT
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I disagree...
by rockin redbird on
Jun 9, 2006 11:40 AM EDT
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so the distinction is that
by chuckb on Jun 9, 2006 11:15 AM EDT 0 recs
BTW
by chuckb on Jun 9, 2006 11:15 AM EDT 0 recs
Colin Cowherd
He has been fairly balanced on how this implicates Pujols.
by OCCardsFan on Jun 9, 2006 11:17 AM EDT 0 recs
Mulder
by OCCardsFan on Jun 9, 2006 11:24 AM EDT 0 recs
That's what I thought too
by secretweapon on
Jun 9, 2006 11:31 AM EDT
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the site changed
as of last night, mulder had resumed his normal spot in the rotation.
all of this suggests a health issue --- they weren't sure he'd be ready to go, then they thought he'd be ready to go with some extra rest, and ultimately he must have responded well enough to his treatment (all legal, pretty please???) to be in shape for his normal turn.
that's how i read it
by lboros on
Jun 9, 2006 12:25 PM EDT
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Good
by OCCardsFan on
Jun 9, 2006 12:34 PM EDT
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I still fail to see
by rockin redbird on Jun 9, 2006 11:33 AM EDT 0 recs
Good post
by bigcardsfan5 on
Jun 9, 2006 12:21 PM EDT
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thanks redbird
by chuckb on Jun 9, 2006 11:40 AM EDT 0 recs

