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Game 40 Open Thread: May 17, 2006

Birdos_avatar_tiny by lboros on in News


mulder               trachsel
4-1, 4.27            2-3, 4.91

The New King of Baseball -- so proclaims si.com, speaking about albert pujols. thanks to reader Busch League for pointing this out; half a dozen adoring articles, some (all?) of which presumably will grace the print edition. i haven't read 'em as yet, but they sound like a treat.

elsewhere, briefly:

  • brad lidge thinks he is back on track and has former stl fave joe mcewing to thank. super joe explained that lidge was tipping his pitches, so the coaching staff corrected the flaw in his delivery -- and he has had two perfect one-inning stints since. i'll have to see a few more good outings before i'm ready to believe the fix is that simple . . . .
  • the already pitching-thin dbacks may be looking for a starter -- el duque left last night's game with an injury. nature and severity of the ailment unspecified; they think it's his rib cage, but then it might be his knee (???) . . . . he was supposed to see his doctor today. if he goes down, perhaps the dbacks (currently in 1st place) become that much more interested in marquis or suppan, in both of whom they reportedly expressed interest last december. they're an ideal trading partner for st louis: a team that needs an inning-eating pitcher, has a surplus of outfielders, and is in contention this season (only a current-year contender is going to have any use for pending free-agents marquis and suppan).

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Trade?!?
I'll give ya Jason Marquis for Shawn Green.

by Schnake on May 17, 2006 4:53 PM EDT   0 recs

Steve Trachsel
looks incredibly handsome in his picture

I figured I would do anything to end a 2 game losing streak.

Come on Cards!  I'm tired of hearing it from Met fans at work in my company's home office.  But Yankee fans are still more loathsome (I don't feel the Mets fans' hearts aren't in it.)

by BozCardsFanSF on May 17, 2006 4:53 PM EDT   0 recs

Wow - poor grammar alert
That should read "I don't get the feeling the Mets fans' hearts are in it yet"

My first sentence doesn't make no sense.

by BozCardsFanSF on May 17, 2006 6:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Please take Marquis
I am drooling.  Carlos Quentin or the kid the White Soc gave to Da'Backs.  We would have to eat all of Marquis salary to get one of them, but we are talking potential major-league ready Jimmy replacements within a year...

by BigJawnMize on May 17, 2006 4:56 PM EDT   0 recs

I betchya that it'd probably take Mulder
I don't think tony 'n walt'd go for it, but it would sure be an interesting trade.

by Valatan on May 17, 2006 6:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Unless they really have no plans of resigning him.
Trading a 4-1 pitcher, who should easily be 6-1 if not for the bullpen would make me worried.

by Hardcore Legend on May 17, 2006 6:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think that he'll be earning more than
he's worth next year, without a major hometown discount.  The guy's good, but I just don't see him as being worth the A.J. Burnett-type deal he's likely getting

 If our scouts say Quentin's the future star that SI and their ilk say he is, then I probably would pull the trigger on the deal, and hope that some combo of Wainwright and Mulder can even out the rotation for the rest of the year.  Then we go into 2007 with Quentin/Enc./Edmonds plus the entire infield signed, and have 2/3 of the outfield for 2008, with Quentin still not arb. eligible, and thus relatively cheap. Then, resign whichever of Suppan/Marquis that looks good down the stretch and is wiling to sign a reasonable deal, and look for a starter.

1B Pujols
2b luna
SS Eck
3B Rolen
C Molina
Lf enc
Rf quentin
cf edmonds

Carp
Sup/Marquis
Reyes
Wainwright
FA pitcher

That deal basically allows the cards to keep a playoff caliber team together for another year.  It seems pretty reasonable to me.

by Valatan on May 17, 2006 7:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Mulder deserves Burnett money...
..and if we were willing to give it to Burnett, I don't see how we can't offer it to Mulder.  Unless something terrible happens, he's about to go to 5-1, doing it against what many believe to be the best team in the NL East.

by Hardcore Legend on May 17, 2006 10:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Umm...
maybe we don't offer it to him because we're offering it to Mark Buehrle?

I don't think they'll pick his option up with Brandon McCarthy waiting in the wings, and you know Buehrle would take just about any deal Walt offers him.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on May 17, 2006 10:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd be really surprised
if they don't pick up that option.  He's front of the rotation material and that rotation has been so solid.  Why move McCarthy into the rotation when they can preserve depth.  I just don't think they are gonna pass on a guy as good as Beurhle

by azruavatar on May 17, 2006 10:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Everyone else...
is locked up through next year, and if they don't move McCarthy up soon it may be too late, developmentally.  His spot start yesterday shows that he's in serious need of regular starts if he's going to be the arm they thought he would be.

And I think the Sox front office is getting tired of all the Cardinals talk and could be convinced to pick up the $1mil buyout to make him happy.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on May 17, 2006 10:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What is?
"all the Cardinal talk"?  

3 sentences in the last year or 2?   I read the Chicago Trib every day.  the Cardinal talk certainly ain't here.

They have the option on him.   He ain't gonna simply be let go.   I'd love to see it, but Kenny Williams isn't an idiot.

by sdrone on May 18, 2006 12:10 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I remember...
seeing a story earlier in the year where Williams and Ozzie pulled him aside and told him to knock it off with the "I want to play in St. Louis" stuff.

Someone even hung a Cards jersey in his locker.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on May 18, 2006 12:28 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What more do we want out of a pitcher?
Mulder has been the winningest pitcher in baseball since 2001.  He'd be just turning 30 the August after this.  

You would have to believe that Mulder's best days as a pitcher are behind him, which I simply don't.  The precedent was set.  If we were willing to pay that much to a pitcher with the same career ERA, but with more success..Mulder shouldn't expect less and the Cardinals shouldn't offer less.

I may be in the minority here, but I just think that not offering Mulder something in the Burnett range is lunacy.

by Hardcore Legend on May 18, 2006 3:27 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed
I vote for re-signing Mulder.  He's a good left hander.  Would not be that old with a 4 or 5 year deal (maybe a 4 year deal with a club option).

Relatively healthy throughout his career, innings-eater and has a pretty healthy W-L record.

I like Buehrle as well and would welcome him.  That would give us 3 high $ guys, and then perhaps Wainwright and Reyes at league minimums for a few years.  That's doable isn't it?

by BozCardsFanSF on May 18, 2006 12:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If you can get a young
cheap, extremely talented OF for him, though, you have to take the deal.  

by Valatan on May 18, 2006 12:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Chris Young is scary good,
lots of Eric Davis comparisons, though he's struggled some in the early going. I don't think Mulder would be enough, if the D-Backs were smart.

by DanUpBaby on May 17, 2006 6:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Didn't Chris Young
suffer some horrifying injury this spring? Like a yearlong rehab type of thing?

by salvomania on May 17, 2006 7:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm wrong...
..just missed spring training with a wrist injury, was in an "extended spring training" and only has about 40 ABs so far in '06 at AAA...

by salvomania on May 17, 2006 7:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Young also missed time...
With a side muscle strain, which explains the low number of at-bats. See this article more info on Young.
Jim McLennan AZ SnakePit

by AZ Snake Pit on May 17, 2006 8:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Who on the D-Backs...
...is an upgrade over the Rodriguez/Taguchi platoon (with surprise guest appearances by Scott Speizio, Hector Luna, and more!) while remaining cost efficient?

As always, lets go to the stat book:

Eric Byrnes
106 AB/.321 AVG/.385 OBP/.528 SLG/3 HR/10 RBI
Salary: $2.25M

(Why exactly did we sign Encarnacion instead of him?)

Jeff Davanon
79 AB/ .291 AVG/.360 OBP/.430 SLG/1 HR/15 RBI
Salary: $525,000

Luis Gonzalez
140 AB/.264 AVG/.371 OBP/.471 SLG/5 HR/21 RBI
Salary: $10.67M

Shawn Green
138 AB/.341 AVG/.383 OBP/.464 SLG/3 HR/13 RBI
Salary: $10.21M

Unless they eat a large portion of Gonzalez's or Green's contract, that won't happen. So, we then move to Davanon and Byrnes, who are not significant upgrades over the LF Platoon. That offseason free agent RF we picked up looks worse and worse by the game...

Shawn Green

by bgh on May 17, 2006 4:59 PM EDT   0 recs

I don't know why...
"Shawn Green" is in bold face at the bottom of my last post.

by bgh on May 17, 2006 5:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

uh....Maybe
we could trade Marquis and Juan for Shawn Green straight up?

by Schnake on May 17, 2006 5:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

approved
can we do it yesterday

by azruavatar on May 17, 2006 7:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

How 'bout
seeing if JRod's .296 avg and .441 obp vs. lefties in 2005 was a "samll sample size" blip (34 PAs), or a taste of what he can do....

by salvomania on May 17, 2006 7:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i agree
just looking to dump marquis for more than an old shoe

by azruavatar on May 17, 2006 7:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

forget those guys
if the cards are going to trade marquis or suppan they need to get one of those top young of prospects the d-backs just so happen to have stockpiled. carlos quentin, chris young, and carlos gonzales are all in the top 35 of baseball america's top 100 prospects.
The St. Louis Cardinals: No Curses, No Excuses, Just Wins

by amettrick on May 17, 2006 6:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

New Face of Baseball
All the SI articles were really complimentary.  I especially like Albert's top 10 moments of his career, brings back memories.

by jroman on May 17, 2006 5:09 PM EDT   0 recs

the best part about Albert?!?
These accolades, the press, the attention, the compliments, none of it will go to his head.  Remember when Carlos Beltran shrunk from the spotlight after he signed his contract with the Mets.  Not happening with El Hombre.  Now if we could just talk him into using a shin guard......

by Schnake on May 17, 2006 5:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey
how many games has it been since he's hit a home run?

by sdrone on May 17, 2006 5:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

About the 10 best moments...
...some of those are good, but to not have the game against Cinncinatti on there seperate from 4 homeruns in a row doesn't really tell the story.  That game was won by Albert Pujols.  It was his single greatest display of power, by the simple fact that no matter how far in they tried to jam him, he was still able to turn on it.

That was a game I'll tell my kids about.  Of course, I'll leave the pitching part out of it.

by Hardcore Legend on May 17, 2006 6:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

2
It seems like more than that, doesn't it?

Btw, while I was looking, I noticed that so far this season, he hasn't gone more than 4 games in a row without knocking one out of the park.

by john vb on May 17, 2006 6:14 PM EDT   0 recs

Lidge can believe what he wants to believe...
...but I doubt ALL those hitters figured out he was tipping his pitches to the point where he was allowing alot of guys to get on base.

But, whatever helps his fragile psyche.  He, like BYK, is toast.

by Hardcore Legend on May 17, 2006 6:32 PM EDT   0 recs

Quinton
Anyone know how Carlos Quinton is doing down in AAA? I'd love to have a rook like that.
Cardinals Jayhawks all the way.

by birdland on May 17, 2006 6:43 PM EDT   0 recs

It's Quentin, actually :-)
Not that well, actually. .256 with 3 HR and 15 RBI. However, according to this story, there's no concern from Triple-A manager Chip Hale
"It's his second year of this league and there's a frustration level when you don't get two or three hits every night," he said. "He doesn't accept failure as well, probably, as a lot of other guys, and that's part of the reason he's so good. But he's hitting the ball hard. We track quality at-bats, and every night, whether he has a hit or not, he has three or four quality at-bats."
Jim McLennan AZ SnakePit

by AZ Snake Pit on May 17, 2006 6:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Trades with Arizona
Just checking in with my fellow SB Nation blogger. :-) I don't think Arizona would be looking to trade any future stars for pitching help: new GM Josh Byrnes has shown himself more inclined to build for 2007 and beyond. That we're leading the NL West this season is a bonus, and I don't think the loss of Hernandez and/or Ortiz (ERAs of 6.98 and 6.91 respectively) are going to hurt them in this area.

That said, we'd love to get Shawn Green off our books, since Carlos Quentin is stuck down in Tucson. Green is signed through the end of 2007, and basically is blocking Quentin, so clearing him would be great. However, he has a limited no-trade clause, and can only be traded to 3 teams (SF, SD and LAA) without his written consent.  Gonzalez, being a 10/5 veteran, can veto any trade he doesn't like and has frequently said he'd rather end his career in AZ. So I doubt either would be going anywhere.

Jim McLennan AZ SnakePit

by AZ Snake Pit on May 17, 2006 6:44 PM EDT   0 recs

tonight's lineups
J-Rod and Miles get the starts against the RH pitcher tonight...

Reyes ss
Lo Duca c
Beltran cf
Delgado 1b
Wright 3b
Floyd lf
Nady rf
Matsui 2b  
Trachsel p

Eckstein ss
Rodriguez lf
Pujols 1b
Edmonds cf
Rolen 3b
Encarnacion rf
Molina c
Miles 2b
Mulder p

by DCRedbird on May 17, 2006 7:20 PM EDT   0 recs

The great thing is..
to see El Hombre still in the lineup.  Honestly, after all the injuries last night, I thought for sure he'd be starting on the mound tonight, and batting 3rd and 7th.

by Hardcore Legend on May 17, 2006 7:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Poor Luna
Back in Purgatory.

by patton044 on May 17, 2006 7:28 PM EDT   0 recs

D-Backs prospects...
aren't going to happen for Marquis unless we are dealing with Omar Minaya and Scott Kazmir.  No one values a soon-to-be FA pitcher who has been crappy with the two best pitching coaches in baseball.
A diamond is just a lump of coal that performed well under pressure

by joker24 on May 17, 2006 7:44 PM EDT   0 recs

I wonder how often
both JRod and Luna have been in the lineup together? And what the Cardinals' record is in those games?

by salvomania on May 17, 2006 7:56 PM EDT   0 recs

looking at ESPNs gamelog
there has only been ONE game (May 3) in which both JRod and Luna have recieved at least 3 ABs each.  There are a couple where one came in to pinch hit but just a cursory look makes it appear they have never both started the same game except the one time.

And that game was a 5-4 loss to Oswalt and the astros

by azruavatar on May 17, 2006 8:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

To answer my own question:
The answer is: once, and they Birds lost 5-4 to the Astros two weeks ago today. (Luna homered in that game, and JRod had one of the Birds' other 5 hits vs. Oswalt/Lidge).

Interestlingly, the Cardinals are only 9-7 in games started by Hector Luna. And they're also only 9-6 in games started by JRod--both records are worse than the Cardinals overall records.

So, one can argue that TLR knows what he's doing---the Birds play better without either JRod or Luna in the lineup (6-3 when neither starts). But I'd argue that the Birds would be better with BOTH in the lineup: Luna is above .800 OPS vs. both lefties (+- 45 PAs) and righties (+- 35 PAs) in '06, and, well, no one will ever know how JRod might fare against lefties....

by salvomania on May 17, 2006 8:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

great minds think alike
and apparently answer their own questions too

by azruavatar on May 17, 2006 8:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm surprised with how rigid he has been with the
platoons.  I would have expected a little more variance but apparently not.  I'm not sure if this is a good or bad thing but I certainly wouldn't have guessed it.

by azruavatar on May 17, 2006 8:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

question
with the braves losing Kyle Davies for 2-3 months with a torn groin any chance we match up for a trade there?  I'm not particularly familiar with their farm system (and I doubt there's any way in hell they take Marquis back) but what about Supp.  Seems like they always have a derth of minor league talent .  

just a random thought

by azruavatar on May 17, 2006 8:22 PM EDT   0 recs

Dumb question...
Reyes for Quentin?
The 26th Man

by 26thMan on May 17, 2006 8:53 PM EDT   0 recs

Pujols Interview at ESPN...
said some really dumb things.  I respect Albert trying to take the high road and not trash Bonds, but instead saying only positive things about his accomplishments.  But APu should be wiser than to touch this one.  Quotes like "come on, give the guy a break." and "they haven't found out anything about the guy...Prove the point first."  Not wise at all, Prince Albert.  You're defending the biggest cheat in the game today.  Wise up and don't say anything.  It's a no-win for today's players.

by tinstl on May 17, 2006 8:58 PM EDT   0 recs

I might pull the trigger on that one...
Quentin is largely deemed one of the "untouchables", along with Drew, Upton, etc. But starting pitching is our main area of deficiency in Arizona, and needs to be addressed. Even though Baseball America only ranked Reyes #41, while Quentin was #20, I could certainly be talked towards, if not perhaps, into that deal.
Jim McLennan AZ SnakePit

by AZ Snake Pit on May 17, 2006 9:04 PM EDT   0 recs

It makes perfect sense in the short term
It gets a little complicated in 2007, tho, given that, without Reyes, there will be three holes in the Cards' rotation to fill.
The 26th Man

by 26thMan on May 17, 2006 9:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd be unhappy
Even in the short term, Reyes is far more valuable to us than Quentin would be.

If I ran the Snakes, I'd shop Luis Gonzalez or Shawn Green to the Yankees for Colter Bean and throw in a PTBNL or two.

by liam on May 18, 2006 3:15 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Impressive at bat, enc
I may be wrong but I think it is the first time all year he took a pitch with 2 strikes!  It was even probably close enough to foul off.

Of course he then swung at balls 3 and 4, somehow managing to foul the first one and popping out to short center on the next, but there is still hope...

by SleepyCA on May 17, 2006 9:22 PM EDT   0 recs

Mulder appears to be having a gem of a game
81 pitches
3 hits
1 BB
5 Ks
through 7IP

Very efficient tonight

by azruavatar on May 17, 2006 10:08 PM EDT   0 recs

in too long?
I'd have liked to see a complete game, but this 9th is scary

by madridbend on May 17, 2006 10:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

could be
I get the same feeling with Mulder as I do with Supp.  Once they are done they lose all control but its really hard to know when that is going to happen in foresight.  Personally, as soon as I saw a 4-5 pitch BB after 90 pitches, I'd pull them.  They both seems to go lose control of the game really fast at the end.

by azruavatar on May 17, 2006 10:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I can't watch this...
They are killing me
OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on May 17, 2006 10:34 PM EDT   0 recs

IZZY!!!!!!!!!!
Way to go!
Nice to see the Cards can pull off a 1-0 win.  And against a good offense at that.
OC Cards Fan

by OCCardsFan on May 17, 2006 10:44 PM EDT   0 recs

Btw
Morris got the win for the Giants in their 10-1 victory.

by rob is back on May 17, 2006 10:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The NL West
has absolutely torched the Astros the last couple of weeks. Houston is 8-13 against the West overall this season...
Here comes "that man" again...

by iron duke75 on May 18, 2006 12:28 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

IZZY had command and control tonight.
A great outing for him (hopefully a sign of things to come).  I'm sure he wanted to show up his old organization, too.
matty fred is a web log.

by matty fred on May 17, 2006 10:46 PM EDT   0 recs

tomorrow is
LIMA TIME!!!!!!

by azruavatar on May 17, 2006 10:46 PM EDT   0 recs

Every time I see an opposing pitcher
with a losing record and an ERA over 6.00 I get nervous...

Shouldn't it be just the opposite? :)

Here comes "that man" again...

by iron duke75 on May 17, 2006 11:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Izzy
That was beautiful.

by matt reeder on May 17, 2006 10:49 PM EDT   0 recs

I have a feeling
that this time we kill Lima.

by rockin redbird on May 18, 2006 4:38 AM EDT   0 recs

Acourse
it's Marquis too--who will be great or SUCK--so no telling which whacko will be closer to the mean. Never mind.

by rockin redbird on May 18, 2006 4:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, his ERA
..is about .80 lower during day games than during night games.  He's also got a higher K ratio during the daylight as well.

We will see.  All I know is that Lima (and his wife) are some atractive people.

by Hardcore Legend on May 18, 2006 4:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

the
article about lima lying about herpes is much better

by punchinjudy on May 18, 2006 6:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Last Night's Commentators
on ESPN: I didn't catch who did color commentary. I believe that is the first time I've heard an intelligent description of why wide shoulders (combined with smaller hips) supply an easier motion and fewer injuries in the long run. (Although Mulder has had injuries issues over his career. Bah! Facts, get out of the way!)
Anyone know who the color guy was last night? I didn't recognize the voice at all. I would like to know if he has more useful insight into this great game of ours.

by Solanus on May 18, 2006 12:11 PM EDT   0 recs

Color Guy
I believe was Orel Herschiser

by BozCardsFanSF on May 18, 2006 12:17 PM EDT   0 recs

that's right
nm
8/13/79- Lou Brock 3000 hits

by lb3000 on May 18, 2006 1:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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