Game 3 Open Thread: April 6, 2006

by lboros on Apr 6, 2006 1:36 PM EDT in St. Louis Cardinals News

marquis lidle
13-14, 4.13 13-11, 4.53

still pimping my guest column at Baseball Analysts today; have a peek if you haven't already.

i think somebody (guess i just nominated myself) needs to classify jason isringhausen's "saves" this season. the last couple of years, it seems as if every outing goes like last night's -- he uses 25 pitches and every last inch of clearance before he finally gets the game parked in the hangar. but really, how common are those close calls?

i propose the following cataloguing method -- subject to comments and suggestions from all of you:

a "shutdown" save is one in which izzy retires the side in order.
a "solid save" is one in which nobody advances into scoring position.
a "shaky save" is one in which either a) at least one run scores, or b) the tying run advances into scoring position.
a "cliffhanger" is one where the winning run advances into scoring position.

and then of course there's the plain old "blown save." and there's "departs game with injury."

by this method, last night's save was a cliffhanger; sounds about right to me.

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Happens too much.

My friends and I were sitting around and we said ok, here comes Izzy, he'll walk the bases loaded and then get the last guy out.
First of all, doesn't make it less stressful.
Secondly, we didn't want it to ACTUALLY come through.
I would be interested to see the metrics from your study lboros, me thinks I forgot about the solid and the shutdowns but always remember the clifhangers.

by jroman on Apr 6, 2006 1:42 PM EDT reply actions

Edit:

Secondly, we didn't want it to ACTUALLY come TRUE.

by jroman on Apr 6, 2006 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions

There's a void.

Sounds good, but you're going to need something between solid and shaky to cover this scenario:

2 run lead, Izzy puts men on first and second, but neither score.

Less effective than solid, because a runner is in scoring position. More effective than shaky, because that runner is not the tying run.

There's the scenario. You pick the descriptor.

by flynn on Apr 6, 2006 1:43 PM EDT reply actions

I've done

a pretty good job of training myself to just relax and go with Izzy's flow. Much more often than not, he succeeds. When the blown saves begin to overshadow the successful ones (cliffhangers or not), then I'll start freaking. He damn near put me in the mental ward last year, so I just can't do it again. Serenity Now...

by rockin redbird on Apr 6, 2006 1:49 PM EDT reply actions

Why not...

just have three types of save:

the regular save, where the side is retired with a minimum of effort.
the Izzy, where the side is walked a couple of times, but the save isn't blown.
the blown save.

He was in midseason form last night, I'll say that.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Apr 6, 2006 2:06 PM EDT reply actions

only three?

You obviously haven't notice the enjoyment we all get from attention to detail around here.

by flynn on Apr 6, 2006 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Today's Lineup

Is the same as last night

Eckstein, SS
Encarnacion, RF
Pujols, 1B
Edmonds, CF
Rolen, 3B
Schumaker, LF
Molina, C
Miles, 2B
Marquis, P

by STLEdge on Apr 6, 2006 2:44 PM EDT reply actions

Hey, good to see that

we might be giving Schumaker a bit of playing time to develop.

by sdrone on Apr 6, 2006 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Thats how TLR works..

..if you produce one night you're probably going to get yourself another start the next day.

by amettrick on Apr 6, 2006 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

schumie

shumie has 2 solid catches on the run in left field already and it only the second inning, eek marquis hangs a curveball. 1-0

by 2ndprize on Apr 6, 2006 3:41 PM EDT reply actions

4 fly balls in 2 innings:

When that phrase appears in the same sentence as "Jason Marquis," we begin to get very, very nervous.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 6, 2006 3:45 PM EDT reply actions

Alright Jason

It'll be a shame if he winds up on an AL team next season with that bat of his, what a waste that would be. 2-1 Phils after a Marquis double into left-center.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Apr 6, 2006 4:27 PM EDT reply actions

mmhmm

pujols, edmonds, rolen rbi singles. up 4-2

edmonds robs nunez pinch hitting for lidle the following inning.

edmonds could be the best there ever has been at tracking flyballs over his shoulder..

by 2ndprize on Apr 6, 2006 4:46 PM EDT reply actions

I'l admit no patience for Encarnacion

Has he really left 3 more on base today, after 9 last night? Gotta be some sort of record.

Meanwhile, Miles just singled again and is now 2 for 2 with a HBP. Is it too quick to swap them in the order?

by cyclone on Apr 6, 2006 4:51 PM EDT reply actions

Wow

2 more LOB by the big E. What IS the record for most runners LOB by an everyday player in consectutive games?

by cyclone on Apr 6, 2006 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Not only..

Not only did he leave men on base, he made Juan Albert lead off the next inning 3 or 4 times that game.

by Los Cardinales on Apr 6, 2006 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Encarnacion

I gotta admit that Encarnacion is QUICKLY approaching Tino Martinez and Fernando Tatis status in my book. Those two have the distinction as being the only two Redbirds I've ever booed when stillin wearing a STL uni.

Its clear that Encarnacion is going to stay in the lineup (thanks to the 3-year deal), but can we at least flip him with Miles???

Miles has always been able to swing it and I see Eckstein/Miles creating LOTS of chances for Pujols and Co. to knock in some runs.

Just my take. Any thoughts?

by TheFranchise9 on Apr 6, 2006 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions

More venting

Can I also add how heated I was on Wednesday night when the pitcher for the Phils was all over the place and Encarnacion got the count to 2-0 before lunging at a pitch - which was off the plate - and breaking his bat in yet ANOTHER weak ground out.

I know its only 3 games into the season, but NOBODY should be swinging at ANYTHING in that situation, let alone lunging at a pitch that you break your bat on.

Welcome to the dog house Mr. Encarnacion.

by TheFranchise9 on Apr 6, 2006 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I remember that - it was ugly

by azruavatar on Apr 7, 2006 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Dudes, come on...

It's only been three games. Give ol' Instant Breakfast more of a chance than just one series.

The 26th Man

by 26thMan on Apr 7, 2006 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions

This dang Edmonds thing

better be on Sportscenter tonight. I want some highlights.

by sdrone on Apr 6, 2006 4:58 PM EDT reply actions

the catch

wasn't spectacular---just a solid job of tracking it back looking over his left shoulder and then into the mitt.

by salvomania on Apr 6, 2006 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Here we have, to date, the worst cardinal AB of the young season:

Mr. So Taguchi!!!

See him check his swing (almost!) on a pitch three inches off the ground!

See him flail madly at a pitch thrown at his back ankle!!!

Eager for playing time, maybe, but that's not gonna cut it....

by salvomania on Apr 6, 2006 5:43 PM EDT reply actions

pretty good inning by Flores

He even gets a righthander out.

Now for Izzy time...

by Valatan on Apr 6, 2006 5:54 PM EDT reply actions

conversely

does arthur rhodes look as awful on TV as he does on gameday--he just looks all over the place, AND is getting hit...

by Valatan on Apr 6, 2006 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions

well

Well, he struck rolen and edmonds out, and got out of the inning.

Can someone explain what shu was bunting for?

by SleepyCA on Apr 6, 2006 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions

ya, I totally anti-cursed rhodes

by Valatan on Apr 6, 2006 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Credit where credit is due.

Izzy terrified me last night, then delivered a textbook shutdown today.

by madridbend on Apr 6, 2006 6:25 PM EDT reply actions

shu and thomp

i think shu was a bit overmatched today at the plate and was just trying to make something happen is why he bunted.

what i find interesting today is tony has more trust in brad thompson than just about anyone, and josh hancock who was released and only called by the cardinals, seems to have moved up in tony's eyes too. he used them both when games on the line while looper warming the bench

by 2ndprize on Apr 6, 2006 6:27 PM EDT reply actions

izzy..

izzy scares me, but no the same as oh say Dave Veres..at least izzy can reach back and bring the heat every now and then...Veres was on or wasnt...I liked thompson last year..he has alot of movement on his stuff.

by punchinjudy on Apr 6, 2006 6:57 PM EDT reply actions

Where we should be...

The Cards are tied for the best record in baseball and have the 2nd best run differential. Baltimore's spread is 13. St. Louis: 11. But Baltimore was playing Tampa Bay, so that shouldn't count.

I know that its too early for those things to mean anything, but it would be cool to sustain the best record over the entire season. A hot start + the post-may norm for the cards = an entire season of dominance.

by TaiwanGuy on Apr 6, 2006 8:02 PM EDT reply actions

Oops!

I missed Detroit's run differential of 13. But they were playing KC, so that should also be ignored.

Doesn't bode well for KC and TB this season.

by TaiwanGuy on Apr 6, 2006 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Marquis is number 3

Anybody notice that Marquis got the number 3 slot over Soupcan? Not a big deal and definitely subject to change over the course of the season. I only mention it because of the big stir at the start of the playoffs last year as to whether Marquis would have a spot on the playoff starting staff. Since Jason seems the type to dwell on these sorts of things, it's probably good Tony and Dunc have given him #3. Maybe he'll pitch up to it.