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Around SBN: A Miracle Squared: Celebrating The Greatness Of Bo Jackson

weekend thread: projecting the brewers

last night's game: cardinals 11, mets 8. carp was sharp, flores wasn't, miles and spiezio combined to go 8 for 10. box score and summary at the official site.

i had an (i hope) inspired thought re this weekend's projection thread: let's project a team rather than a single player -- won-lost record, runs scored, runs allowed, and where they will finish in the standings. i'd like to save the cardinals for the last week of spring training, so i'm gonna propose instead a division rivals, a team about which opinions vary widely: the brewers.

no diff'nce of opinion about the brew crew's potential -- they'll start two 23-year-old regulars (rickie weeks and jj hardy) and one 22-year-old (prince fielder), all of whom put up stellar minor-league numbers and performed well in limited major-league exposure in 2005. the only question is how long it will take those young stars to adjust the big leagues and start pushing their team toward the top of the standings.

i think they're ready now. hardy has already had his adjustment period -- he hit .187/.293/.267 in about 200 at-bats before the all-star break last year, but then went .308/.363/.503 after the break. to put his potential in perspective, hardy had as many hr after the break (8) as eckstein did all season -- and that's not a shot at eckstein, merely an acknowledgment that hardy's got excellent power for a shortstop. weeks was still struggling at the end of last season, but even with a batting avg of .239 (in 360 at-bats) he was still about even with grudzielanek (and a far sight better than spivey) in both obp (.333) and slugging (.394). if weeks raises his average to just .260 he'll be among the best-hitting 2bmen in the league. it wouldn't shock me if the brewers get more homers from their keystone combo than the cardinals get out of their two corner outfield slots.

prince fielder, who takes over at first base, is a better prospect than either hardy or weeks. his comps at baseball prospectus include greg luzinski, bob horner, and johnny bench -- ie, league-hr-title type power. that's his long-term upside. having said that, i think he is at greater risk than either hardy or weeks of playing badly in 2006. in 59 at-bats last season he had a strikeout-to-walk ratio of 17-2; he got fooled a lot. and his .291 batting average in the high-octane PCL last year does not impress me. as a first baseman, he's got a much higher offensive bar to clear than either hardy or weeks; they're big assets if they can merely generate a .750 ops, but fielder has to post .850-plus just to be average. so he could put up outstanding numbers for a 22-year-old -- say, .a 340 obp and .500 slugging -- and still be a net liability. and if he has an adjustment period and posts .325/.470 for the year . . . . well, a lot is being asked of him this season. while fielder's long-term potential is undeniable, in the short term he may not be a big contributor.

but fielder is still likely to be no worse than the player he's replacing, lyle overbay. and if he struggles, milwaukee can simply plug in another young player -- bill hall, corey hart, nelson cruz -- and keep mashing. they finished 6th in the league in runs scored last year and tied the cardinals for 4th in the league in slugging pct (.423); they outhomered stl by 13 (175-162). i think they may outhomer the cardinals by 35 this year. they may not have a single .900 ops hitter in their lineup, but they also may not have a single player below .750 -- just a solid, consistent lineup with no holes. they also have an outstanding bench. i think their offense could improve by as many as 50 runs, which may be enough to pull them even with -- or even surpass -- st louis.

here's how the brewers' top three pitchers' last year stacked up with the cardinals':

era whip baa k/9 era whip baa k/9
carpenter 2.83 1.06 .231 8.0 sheets 3.33 1.07 .237 8.1
mulder 3.64 1.38 .273 4.9 davis 3.84 1.30 .235 8.4
suppan 3.57 1.38 .275 5.3 capuano 3.99 1.38 .256 7.2

that's about a wash, if you ask me. the brewer pitchers' w-l records didn't compare because they had a lot less run support, and their eras were higher because they didn't keep the ball in the park as well as stl's did. but that's still a damn good top of the rotation. wanna know who ben sheets' top comps are per baseball prospectus? #2 is juan marichal; #4 is don sutton; #6 is mike mussina; #9 is robin roberts; and #10 is fergie jenkins -- 5 hall-of-famers (future or current). taking the last two years together, he's a more dominant ace than carpenter: better in era (2.95 - 3.10), whip (1.02 - 1.09), and strikeouts per 9 (9.1 - 8.2). likewise, while doug davis may lack mulder's career resume, he has pitched more effectively the last two years.

milwaukee finished 5th in the league in pitching last year, half a run a game behind the cards in era; they finished 2d in the majors in strikeouts (1173). the brewers have upgraded the bottom of the rotation, and they'll have sheets for a full season (he missed 10 starts in 2005). how many runs will those upgrades save? without going into the details, i'm eyeballing it at 25 to 40 -- or 3 to 4 wins in the standings.

the brewers do have defensive challenges. they led the league with 119 errors last season and were near the bottom in double plays. clark was above average in center field, but the rest of their defenders were average at best. corey koskie may save them a few runs at 3d base (although he'll cost them a few with his bat), but the best thing their defense will have going for it is strikeouts: the brewer pitchers fan so many batters that the fielders have a restricted sphere of responsibility, which tends to mitigate the damage their shoddy work may cause.

we could talk about other things -- bullpens, managers, midseason trade opportunities -- but i'm gonna leave it there. here's what i want you to project:

  1. regular-season won-lost record
  2. place in the nl central standings
  3. runs scored
  4. runs allowed
here are the brewers' numbers for the last four years:
record finish scored allowed
2002 56-106 6th 627 (16th) 821 (15th)
2003 68-94 6th 714 (11th) 873 (14th)
2004 67-94 6th 634 (15th) 821 (10th)
2005 81-81 3d 726 (6th) 697 (6th)

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i've got them at 90 wins
90-72
2d place
760 runs
670 runs allowed

reasoning: i've got them improving by about 25 runs on the pitching/defense side, because of the additional 60 innings they'll get from ben sheets and because i think their 5th and 6th starters (dave bush and rick helling) are a big improvement over the 5th-starter stiffs they ran out there for 30 starts last season.

i've got them improving by 35 runs offensively. in part that's just an accounting correction --- they undershot their runs created total last year by a dozen runs or so, and that kind of bad luck usually doesn't carry over year to year. i think weeks will hit better (and be there all season) and fielder will match what overbay put up; and the brewers' bench will be so loaded that i it could give them a 10-run bonus or so.

at 760 runs scored and 670 allowed, the pythagorean formula puts them at 90 wins. i think the cards will edge them out. but it's gonna be close.

by lboros on Mar 4, 2006 10:53 AM EST reply actions  

A lot of promise
84-78
3rd
735 runs
680 runs allowed

The Brewers didn't beat their pythagorean win average in 11 of the last 15 seasons, so in this case I don't exactly believe in accounting corrections.

by Neuronix on Mar 4, 2006 11:29 AM EST reply actions  

up and coming
I'll say 87-75
2nd place
780 runs scored
695 runs allowed

by Silent George on Mar 4, 2006 11:33 AM EST reply actions  

Prediction
85-79
3rd (behind Chicago & St. Louis)
735 scored
701 allowed

by STLEdge on Mar 4, 2006 12:02 PM EST reply actions  

Math
Not my strong suit - I picked 85 wins; change losses to 77 please. =p

by STLEdge on Mar 4, 2006 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Brew Crew
87-75
2nd (tied with Houston - Sorry, no Wildcard here)
752 runs scored
697 runs allowed
Now the story of a wealthy family who lost everything, and the one son who had no choice but to keep them all together...it's Arrested Development.

by Bowen on Mar 4, 2006 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

oops
Cardsrul has this covered over at the diaries. sorry.
matty fred is a web log.

by matty fred on Mar 4, 2006 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Brewers '06
89 - 73
2nd Place (at least in the wild card hunt 'till the last week of the season, perhaps even winning the w.c.)
750 RS
670 RA
matty fred is a web log.

by matty fred on Mar 4, 2006 12:49 PM EST reply actions  

projections
The runs scored will depend quite a bit on whether Carlos Lee is with the team the entire season and whether Geoff Jenkins will get 500+ at bats for the third consecutive season.  The Brewers are not far removed from having a corner outfield of Corey Hart and Gabe Gross which would certainly be a major step down from last year's starting corner outfielders.  

Weeks and Hardy certainly can improve but the Brewers also got some career years out of Clark, Hall and Lee.  So in the big picture of things the "runs scored" may not improve much considering that some players may come down to earth a bit, Lee may be traded and Jenkins has a significant injury history.

Record 85-77
Place 3rd
Runs scored 730
Runs allowed 690

by acr on Mar 4, 2006 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

no career year
last year for carlos lee, who was below his career averages in batting avg, slugging, and obp. his hr the last three seasons have been 31, 31, and 32. they can count on same from him again. if the brewers are in the race and carlos is playing well, he won't be traded; the brewers will simply let him walk and take the draft pick.

brady clark did surpass his career batting avg by 20 points, which in turn drove up his obp and slugging pct. but if he just matches his career .283 / .361 / .404 line, he'll be a very effective leadoff man.

bill hall did have a career year, but a) he's 25, and 25-year-olds are supposed to improve. he could be just as good or better in 2006. also b) he'll be coming off the bench anyway, and c) he posted an .840 ops last year; even if he falls off 50 points to .790, that's a damn valuable bench player. and if he's off 100 points, he's still league average.

the brewers PR dept ought to be paying me, eh . . . ?

by lboros on Mar 4, 2006 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I should have qualified that
I see what you mean about Lee but I should have been more specific in my post.  Lee was "having" a career year but faded somewhat down the stretch.  He had 22 homers and 76 rbi's at the All-Star break and there was even talk of MVP votes.  He ended up with a career high in rbi's but his 2005 stats were powered by his tremendous May and June numbers.  Otherwise he was actually pretty disappointing.  He could either maintain the .254/.312/.464 numbers at home or he could excel.  Considering it is a contract year for him I would bet on his home numbers improving somewhat, esp. in the BA and OBP categories.  But I don't think they will be all that significant.  Coming over from one of the more hitter friendly parks (White Sox were 8th most hitter friendly at home) to one of the more pitcher friendly ones (Brewers ranked 19th in MLB in hitter friendly parks) will limit Lee's ability to improve a great deal despite his contract year status.

And yes, the Brewers should be paying you for pimping their club.  But hey, it is hard not to like what they have done with a limited budget.  It makes the NL Central better by having quality teams in it.  

by acr on Mar 4, 2006 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

hard not to expect improvement
87-75
2nd
741 runs scored
685 runs allowed
DCGreg

by DCGreg on Mar 4, 2006 2:17 PM EST reply actions  

Brew Crew
W/L  88-79
2nd place, NL Central
743 RS
684 RA

by Valatan on Mar 4, 2006 2:27 PM EST reply actions  

oops
those w/l dont' add up.  88/74

by Valatan on Mar 4, 2006 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha
Welcome to the club.

by STLEdge on Mar 4, 2006 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

J.D. Brew
W/L 85-82 (consolidation year, bullpen regression)
third place NL central
740 RS
710 RA (Sheets full strength and no Victor Santos, but Capuano and Davis slip)

I think they really make a run in 2007 with a free agent signing on the corner outfield spot. And when Hart gets to the league and gets his footing.

"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." - Jim Bouton

by WillieMcGeeModelingCompany on Mar 4, 2006 2:53 PM EST reply actions  

argh
I project the season will be lengthened midseason to make sure the Yankees make the playoffs. All right, all right - 83-79 then. Thanks :-)
"You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time." - Jim Bouton

by WillieMcGeeModelingCompany on Mar 4, 2006 5:36 PM EST up reply actions  

after some deep soul searching...
83-79
3rd place
740
690

Clark was pretty good with the leather...from what I've read about prince, well he's at firstbase because he can mash not field.

Sheets has the potential to be a Cy Young winner but I just don't see it happening this year.  The defense is going to be marginally worse than last year.  

Plus I don't think that Lee is going to be around come July 31.  He's in for a much bigger contract than the Brewers can offer and I just don't see them being close enough to justify not trading him.  

O and does anyone remember that team called the Astros...with Pettite and Oswalt. And personally, I feel reasonably confident saying that Clemens will be back come June as well.  They may not have offense but they really only need to hit 2 out of 5 games and let their pitchers win the other 3.  They were the NL champions last year and I don't think they got appreciably worse for them to fall from that position even if the Brewers did get appreciably better.

by azruavatar on Mar 4, 2006 3:04 PM EST reply actions  

I'll go with...
85-77 3rd place (a win or two behind the stros) 745 for 685 against

by mll2k3 on Mar 4, 2006 3:39 PM EST reply actions  

Brewers
77-85
4th place
744 RS
720 RA

i find myself becoming a bit of a fan of the brewers. young hitters, some good young arms.

an improvement over last year's record is too good to be true in the MLB universe i think tho.

i see some rough patches ahead for the brew crew with inconsistences that are part of having young players, but i like how the team is being built, and think they contend for the division in 2007 and could supplant our cards in the future in the central if we arent careful..

by 2ndprize on Mar 4, 2006 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

yikes!
not a good game today...

Ponson and Reyes are now official owners of Spring ERAs 10+ (13.5 and 19.something respectively)

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2006_03_04_slnmlb_flomlb_1

by azruavatar on Mar 4, 2006 5:27 PM EST reply actions  

off topic
Both Ponson and Reyes apparently got rocked today. 8  runs in 4.1 innings between them. It's early. It's early.
DCGreg

by DCGreg on Mar 4, 2006 5:28 PM EST reply actions  

who knows
I tend to think that they are a little overhyped coming off such a good season that saw them finish higher than the Cubs.  Then I look at their depth chart and they're pretty solid all over the place.  Still, I think people are expecting too much from Weeks and Fielder, too soon.  But Sheets, Davis, and Capuano are the most underrated top 3 in baseball.

84-78
3rd
735
688

by chuckb on Mar 4, 2006 5:56 PM EST reply actions  

Bullish on the Brew Crew?
Love a new rivalry.  Maybe I'm overly bullish because I bought tickets for the last series of the year and it could be interesting(although I do hope the birds have it locked up by then!)

90-72
2nd
770
700

"The good Lord was good to me. He gave me a strong body, a good right arm, and a weak mind." -Dizzy Dean

by vince eating tarp on Mar 4, 2006 11:57 PM EST reply actions  

I'm honored
to have pulled a guesstimate out of my posterior to be right in line with the man himself.  Actually, I would like to see the Cards in a bit of a dog fight late in the year.  I believe that is key to some of their postseason struggles. Maybe even more so than lacking the power pitcher... Is that blasphemous to say here?  
"The good Lord was good to me. He gave me a strong body, a good right arm, and a weak mind." -Dizzy Dean

by vince eating tarp on Mar 5, 2006 12:01 AM EST reply actions  

Brew Crew
You provide a very compelling argument for their improvement.  I guess I'll have to place them at:

89-73
2nd place
759 scored
677 allowed

by Just Rope Ball on Mar 5, 2006 10:50 AM EST reply actions  

a year away
from being a legit contender, and even that depends on their pitching continuing to improve, a big question mark (outside Sheets, that is)

83-79
3rd place
744 scored
721 allowed

by montalban on Mar 5, 2006 8:00 PM EST reply actions  

ups and downs
good young offensive talent.  More Sheets, but I think Capuano Davis and bullpenn regress net.  Things look good in the future.  85-77.  They'll definately be in the picture, and keep getting better 2007-08.
8/13/79- Lou Brock 3000 hits

by lb3000 on Mar 6, 2006 12:45 AM EST reply actions  

Brew ha ha
Third place behind 'Lou and Hou'
750 runs scored
680 runs allowed
89-73

by Zubin on Mar 6, 2006 2:39 AM EST reply actions  

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