moneyball
in case you missed it last week, cardinal stat consultant mitchel lichtman (better known as mgl) took part in a roundtable about sabermetrics at Baseball Analysts. the other two panelists were mgl's collaborator tom tango (aka tangotiger) and eric van, who now works for the boston red sox. among the many things i learned from that discussion about how mlb front offices are integrating stats into their decision-making process, the most interesting was this: the going rate for a run is $200,000; the going rate for a win is $2 million. here's the key exchange:
Tom: Yes, $200,000 per run or $2 million per win should be the going rate. If teams operated on that basis, they wouldn't even need a sabermetrician! . . . .
Mitchel: I do allow some leeway for elite, "top of the pyramid" players, where supply and demand really affects the market (even though it really shouldn't). But anything more than 3 or 4 million per marginal win (per year, of course) is generally a waste of money.
fungoes had a post on this very subject a few days ago, using a baseball prospectus stat called MORP that translates performance into dollar values. fungoes compared each cardinal player's projected 2006 MORP -- ie, the fair price for his expected performance -- with his 2006 salary, to see who looks like a bargain and who doesn't. head on over there to see the results; i will tell you that the team's highest-paid player is also its best bargain. also that all three of this off-season's main free-agent signees (rincon looper and encarnacion) appear to be subpar investments.
fungoes summed it all up in a table; i'm gonna do the same thing here, using mgl's pricing paradigm of $2m per win. before we get going, let's do a quick example from 2005 to make sure we're all down with the concept.
according to baseball prospectus' WARP (Wins Above Replacement Player), albert pujols generated about 10.7 marginal wins in 2005. at $2m per win, albert was worth $21.4 million bucks last season (ie, $2m x 10.7). the cardinals only paid $11m last year, which suggests albert was not only one of the best players in the game but also one of the biggest bargains. the cards paid him just $1m per marginal win -- half the going rate
another "wins" measurement, bill james' Win Shares, places albert's marginal wins total for 2005 at 8.3; at $2m per win, that makes him a $16.6 million player. still a huge bargain. by that measure, the cards got albert's wins at $1.3m per, a 35 percent discount.
got it? not all that complicated -- especially when you're pricing what a player has already produced. the real trick, of course, is to correctly price the production he'll deliver in the future. to do that, being lazy by nature, i'm just gonna use PECOTA --which i know a lot of you hate, and which like any player forecasting system is going to be wildly inaccurate a certain percentage of the time. but its premise is widely accepted; many major-league teams (including the cardinals) incorporate PECOTA or some version thereof into their evaluations. so just go with it for now. when the season's over and the stats are in the books, i'll revisit this post and we can all make fun of assumptions gone awry.
ready? let's begin with this off-season's free agent acquisitions, looking only at 2006. i've listed the players in descending order of price per marginal win (the far right column):
| player | projected marginal wins per PECOTA |
06 salary | price per marginal win |
|---|---|---|---|
| looper | 1.1 | $3.5m | $3.2m |
| rincon | 0.7 | $1.5m | $2.1m |
| encarnacion | 2.4 | $3.5m | $1.5m |
| bennett | 0.7 | $800K | $1.1m |
| ponson | 2.6 | $2.5m | $1m |
| spivey | 1.7 | $1.2m | $700K |
| cruz | 1.3 | $800K | $600K |
| TOTAL | 10.5 | $13.8m | $1.3m |
the cardinals heeded mgl's advice this off-season. they only significantly exceeded the $2m-per-win dictum for one player, braden looper -- and given the inflated market for relievers, it would have been difficult to hold the line there. of course, three of these contracts were multiyear deals and should really be evaluated as such. over the life of those deals, what did the cardinals pay per projected marginal win?
| player | projected marginal wins per PECOTA |
contract value | price per marginal win |
|---|---|---|---|
| looper | 2.8 | $13.5m | $4.8m |
| encarnacion | 5.8 | $15m | $2.6m |
| rincon | 1.4 | $2.9m | $2.1m |
| TOTAL | 10 | $31.4m | $3.1m |
ugh. now the looper signing looks truly disastrous -- and that's not my opinion, i'm simply applying the standards the cards' own consultant uses. they also overpaid for encarnacion, and although the premium is not a crippling one over the life of the deal, years 2 and 3 will be killers -- they'll be paying $3.5m per marginal win those years, nearly twice the going rate.
what about some of the deals the cardinals didn't make?
| player | projected marginal wins per PECOTA |
contract value | price per marginal win |
|---|---|---|---|
| burnett | 22 | $55m | $2.5m |
| grud'k | 3.3 | $6m | $1.8m |
| sanders | 2.7 | $10m | $3.7m |
| tavarez | 3.0 | $6.7m | $2.2m |
| nunez | 2.8 | $3.4m | $1.2m |
| mabry | 0.9 | $1m | $1.1m |
comments: first, PECOTA projects reggie sanders as a terrible buy; the cards probably had similar projections of his performance and stayed away for that reason. grudzielanek wasn't a bad buy at all, hence jocketty's reported willingness to meet his price (ownership allegedly vetoed that deal). no loss, though, as spivey -- at least per PECOTA, pre-alarmingly-bad-spring-training -- projects to be a better bargain. the cards could never have signed tavarez at the price he eventually settled for; you'll recall he was seeking a four-year deal until well into january, when he finally realized the market wasn't there -- and by then the cards' deadline for re-signing him had passed.
finally we come to burnett. they could have gotten him for $2.5m per marginal win -- a slight premium, but no worse than what they paid for encarnacion. as i've repeated way too many times, it might have made more sense to pay the premium for a potential difference maker like burnett, as opposed to paying the same premium for a spaceholder like encarnacion.
in case you didn't know i felt that way.
here's a table with info for the whole team -- well, most of it anyway. remember, mgl's $2m-per-marginal-win thing applies only to the free-agent market; the younger players who haven't yet become free-agent eligible shouldn't really be judged by that standard. but what the hell, it's my blog. i've thrown in a few extra columns of data just for fun. the players are listed in descending order of projected marginal wins:
| player | projected marginal wins per PECOTA |
projected value at $2m per win |
06 salary | projected profit/loss |
price per marginal win |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| pujols | 9.3 | $18.6m | $14m | $4.6m | $1.5m |
| edmonds | 6.9 | $13.8m | $12m | $1.8m | $1.7m |
| carpenter | 6.8 | $13.6m | $5m | $8.6m | $750K |
| suppan | 4.1 | $8.2m | $4m | $4.2m | $1m |
| mulder | 4.1 | $8.2m | $7.5m | $700K | $1.8m |
| rolen | 4.1 | $8.2m | $11m | -$2.8m | $2.7m |
| eckstein | 3.4 | $6.8m | $3.5m | $3.3m | $1m |
| marquis | 3.2 | $6.4m | $5.1m | $1.3m | $1.6m |
| yadi | 2.8 | $5.6m | $350K | $5.3m | $125K |
| j-rod | 2.8 | $5.6m | $350K | $5.3m | $125K |
| ponson | 2.6 | $5.2m | $2.5m | $2.7m | $1m |
| isringhausen | 2.6 | $5.2m | $8m | -$2.8m | $3m |
| encarnacion | 2.4 | $4.8m | $3.5m | $1.3m | $1.5m |
| bigbie | 1.9 | $3.8m | $900K | $2.9m | $500K |
| luna | 1.8 | $3.6m | $320K | $3.3m | $170K |
| spivey | 1.7 | $3.4m | $1.2m | $2.2m | $700K |
| thompson | 1.4 | $2.8m | $350K | $2.5m | $250K |
| cruz | 1.3 | $2.6m | $800K | $1.8m | $600K |
| looper | 1.1 | $2.2m | $3.5m | -$1.3m | $3.2m |
| flores | 0.9 | $1.8m | $350K | $1.45m | $380K |
| taguchi | 0.9 | $1.8m | ~$800K | $1m | $900K |
| rincon | 0.7 | $1.4m | $1.5m | -$100K | $2.1m |
| bennett | 0.7 | $1.4m | $800K | $600K | $1.1m |
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comments
Comments
Interesting stuff!
I went into his value for money recently and declared that he comes pretty much at the going price for a good, experienced closer.
by Neuronix on Mar 16, 2006 8:56 AM EST 0 recs
Carp
by DCRedbird on Mar 16, 2006 9:03 AM EST 0 recs
Izzie
It's time for cardinals fans to lose their (understandable) emotional attachment to izzie and move on.
by lerwin1 on Mar 16, 2006 9:32 AM EST 0 recs
What do other closers make?
by sdrone on
Mar 16, 2006 9:57 AM EST
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closers
http://fungoes.blogspot.com/2005/11/cards-and-moneyball-closer.html
unfortunately there are a lot closers on the list that were FA so their salary really changes things. i dont think they should be considered. i'm also not a big fan of win shares. i understand what it is trying to calculate, i just think it doesnt do a very good job of it. call izzy overpaid if you want. he probably is, but i think we are better off overpaying him than going with some schmuck like tyler walker, reitsma or weathers. moneyball works nice if you can find golden arms like turnbow on the scrap heap but there are no guarantees there.
by dmb60614 on
Mar 16, 2006 10:31 AM EST
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edit
by dmb60614 on
Mar 16, 2006 10:33 AM EST
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he's still worth it
by dmb60614 on
Mar 16, 2006 10:25 AM EST
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LaRussa Loves Izzy
I don't know where the animus against Izzy comes from. Sure, he makes your stomach acid boil, but the guy gets the job done time and again. If you're going to pay a premium for peace of mind, the closer's the place to do it. I think that's LaRussa's point, and I agree with it.
In any event, remember game 5 of the NLCS? Pujols hits a world-class dinger to bring the Cards back from the brink, instantly deflating the fifth largest metropolis in the nation. Even after that, Izzy still had to go out there and bring home the bottom of the Ninth. And he did.
There are fewer than 5 people I would trust in that situation, and one of those five is the fella who got bent over by Pujols in the top half of the inning.
Overpaying? No way.
by Titus Pullo on
Mar 16, 2006 11:26 AM EST
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Don't forget
by flynn on
Mar 16, 2006 12:42 PM EST
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Projecting over a contract
by Hastur on Mar 16, 2006 9:43 AM EST 0 recs
but by the third year
by lboros on
Mar 16, 2006 11:25 AM EST
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rationality
One thing a system like that leaves out is the ticket sale value. Signing a star FA can bring in extra ticket sales from the fence sitters...the issue doesn't really apply for St Louis given that they've sold out already, but generating extra revenue from ticket sales and the other $$ venues where a star player can have an impact reduces his cost to some degree.
but it is nice to see solid rationale behind decisions like that, and the Cards as a team are a good example of the "third way," a moderate approach combining moneyball and the so-called traditional way. as a Cards fan I often feel a little left out of that silly debate because, duh, there's merit in a meeting of both approaches.
by VanRam on Mar 16, 2006 9:52 AM EST 0 recs
Awesome post lboros
so how does this tie into payroll? If a win costs $2m, does this mean payroll should be, for instance, $200m?
by sdrone on Mar 16, 2006 9:59 AM EST 0 recs
I think the answer to that is...
Also as I understand the $2 million figure doesn't take into account younger guys not eligible for FA yet. So likely the $2 million dollar is a bit overinflated if you look at total baseball salaries and divide by 2430 (the number of games in a season or 162*30/2)
by Zubin on
Mar 16, 2006 11:26 AM EST
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thanks sdrone
think of it like this: a team with 25 minimum-wage guys (ie, this year's florida marlins) would have a payroll of $8.3 million and would be expected to win about 45 to 50 games. if you were a really sharp, disciplined, and lucky free-agent shopper, you could replace all those guys on the free-agent market and buy 45 marginal wins --- ie, the wins over and above what the minimum-wage guys would get you --- to reach the 90-95 win level. at $2m per marginal win, you'd have a payroll of about $90m --- ie, about the cardinals' payroll.
all good in theory.
the reality is that teams mix-match guys at varying price points. they overpay for some, underpay for others, and it all comes out in the wash.
by lboros on
Mar 16, 2006 11:33 AM EST
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Chemistry
Moneyball talks about how closers are over priced for their value in wins. While this is always true, you need a strong closer for the playoffs...IMO. I feel the same way about starting pitching, Burnett is a lesser bargain than Suppan, but that doesn't mean the Cards wouldn't be better off with Burnett. The best valued team (most efficient BUSINESS) doesn't make the best baseball team. Oakland has a solid team, but they would need a lot of luck to win a world series this year. The Yankees probably have a terrible team value wise, but are always a threat to go all the way. Same with the Red Sox.
Moneyball makes a statement at one point that if baseball were like any other business, then Oakland would have absorbed all the other teams and would have a baseball monopoly. I think your post (a great one to read) demonstrates that the Cardinals will be right there with them.
Now if we could only get them to draft so many high school players that never see the bigs!
by Toddius396 on Mar 16, 2006 11:29 AM EST 0 recs
Marginal wins
So we can assume that a replacement-level team would win about 54 games (slightly worse than KC did last year), and would pay its players the minimum (+/- $325K each, or $8.1 million.
In order to be a contender, you'd have to win around 90 games, so those extra 36 wins to get from 54 to 90 become your "marginal wins," and at a cost of $2million per, that's $72 mil, for a total salary of $80 million. And that's with good efficiency; as we know, teams aren't that efficient, and many have a lot of underperforming dead weight on the roster.
One of the biggest wastes is paying much more than the minimum to flesh out your bench, or the back of the bullpen---there is bench-ready talent out there if you know how to find it, and to pay ANY second-string catcher or fifth infielder or 12th pitcher $1million is poor (or lazy) management.
by salvomania on Mar 16, 2006 12:05 PM EST 0 recs
Fascinating post
On the flip-side, letting Sanders and Tavarez go were strong moves, while letting Grudzie go was probably a mistake--as we are now seeing from his designee's poor spring performance. Oh, and dropping Burnett wasn't such a bad move after all.
Lboros--
I wonder if you could play what-if with a few FA's and see who shouldabeen a Cardinal. Ditto for Matt Morris, though I think GIGO applies...
by Red in Chicago on Mar 16, 2006 12:09 PM EST 0 recs
Dollar Value of Players
While this further complicates matters, I think it helps explain why the Yankees or Red Sox seemingly overpay for FAs --- their marginal win values (in terms of ticket sales, etc.) are such that what they pay may actually be worth it.
by matty fred on Mar 16, 2006 12:31 PM EST 0 recs
The other thing that this analysis shows
This, of course, ignores the fact that paying $25M to one guy makes it a lot harder to find cash to fill the 24 other slots.
by Valatan on Mar 16, 2006 4:30 PM EST 0 recs
A-Rod at $16mil per
To me, these are some of the best players to have. Guys that signed large contracts somewhere and then didn't work out there for some reason, but are still valuable players. The team that has them is often under tremendous pressue to unload the player, and will do so at a large loss. See Walker, Larry, Renteria, Edgar, and Rod, A-.
by john vb on
Mar 16, 2006 5:13 PM EST
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