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rolen community projection results

we got 57 responses in the rolen community projection. results:

plate
app
avg obp slg hr rbi r
VEB community 650 .283 .375 .522 27 102 91
ZIPS ~490 .285 .384 .522 22 78 74
PECOTA 407 .270 .358 .475 16 58 54
ron shandler ~495 .260 .345 .447 16 78 71
bill james 503 .286 .381 .519 26 98 90

oy. looks like i should have made playing time a variable after all. PECOTA and ZIPS both expect rolen to miss significant time in 2006, and a number of you expressed doubt that rolen would amass the 650 plate appearances i postulated for this exercise. i'll grant that 650 plate appearances may be unrealistically high -- but the numbers offered by ZIPS and PECOTA strike me as unrealistically low. in 9 big league seasons, rolen has failed to reach 500 plate appearances only once -- last year. his career average over those 9 seasons, including 2005, is 578 plate appearances; exclude last season and he has averaged 622 pa / year for his career. (the foregoing calculations exclude the 1996 season, when rolen wasn't called up until august 1.) for the four seasons prior to last year (ie, 2001 thru 2004) rolen averaged 642 plate appearances.

there's no reason he can't return to that level if the shoulder is sound; he's still only 31 years old. and if he's healthy enough to post a .906 ops, as ZIPS projects -- 16 points higher than rolen's career ops -- then it makes no sense to me that he would be limited to 500 plate appearances. a .906 ops means the shoulder has completely healed, in which case scottie will be out there every day. PECOTA's projection is more internally consistent in that regard, as it postulates a diminished level of ability -- .833 ops, 57 points below his career avg -- along with the diminished playing time. if the shoulder is preventing rolen from being rolen, that would explain why he might miss about a third of the season.

because the projected playing times are so disparate among these three models, i'm going to bring them into synch by pro-rating each batting line to 550 plate appearances. apples to apples and all that. here we go:

plate
app
avg obp slg hr rbi r
VEB community 550 .283 .375 .522 23 86 77
ZIPS 550 .285 .384 .522 25 88 83
PECOTA 550 .270 .358 .475 22 78 73
shandler 550 .260 .345 .447 18 88 87
bill james 550 .286 .381 .519 28 107 98

that's more like it. the VEB projection no longer looms as pie-in-the-sky optimism; on the contrary, our numbers come in remarkably close to ZIPS's (just as spot-on as we were with edmonds) and only slightly higher than PECOTA's. even those of you who were dubious of the 650 pa standard calibrated your projections appropriately.

you guys are good.

let's play around with these numbers some more; it's february and there's nothing else to do. if rolen meets the performance projected here, how much of a boost will the cardinal offense receive? let's keep him at 550 plate appearances and give the other 150 or so plate appearances to deivi cruz. ZIPS puts deivi at .270 / .299 / .384; PECOTA's got him at .272 / .306 / .383. roll 150 units of that in with 550 units of rolen's projected line, and you get a cumulative .277 / .359 / 478 -- a 130-point boost in ops over last year's third basemen:

avg obp slg hr rbi r
2005 3b .269 .339 .368 8 72 83
2006 3b
(projected)
.277 .359 .478 25 100 93

last year's third basemen -- nunez, rolen, mabry, seabol, and luna -- created 74 runs as a group, or 4.6 runs per 27 outs. our roughed-out tandem projection for rolen/cruz yields 105 runs created, or 6.4 runs per 27 outs. so we'd be talking about a 30-run improvement at the position, roughly 3 to 4 wins in the standings -- enough of a boost to offset (or at least minimize) the impact of any decreased production at the corner outfield positions.

may it come to pass.

i'm taking a poll to determine the subject of our next community projection -- see the right-hand sidebar.

0 recs  |  Comment 19 comments

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YES!
Let it come to pass. If Scotty is healthy and plays that many games and even ends up between his 02 and 03 self, I'll still be jumping for joy. It wouldn't be a return to superstar numbers, but damn good and solid--and then no reason we couldn't expect the same or better maybe in 07. And there's always his glove. Even if his hitting is modest, I'll be fine with him as long as his D is Gold Glove. I know LB has done a chart about how many opposing men on base and runs Scotty saves them when healthy and on, but I'm too lazy and inebriated to find it. Y'all know it's a bunch. By all the GOB, let it come to pass.

I sez Carp should be the next project. If he kicks ass and stays healthy, well, that alone still won't win the WS--but if he's not kickass and healthy, we're done.  

by rockin redbird on Feb 3, 2006 4:25 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Rolen's results surprise me...
I got to say that I was really expecting more variance in the numbers from the projections.  I guess the plate appearances are a significant difference but I'm amazed by the consistency of our guesstimates.  I guess I'd like to see someone who has done really poorly and projects really poorly, i.e. Ponson, to see if there is more deviation from the projections.  I just find it hard to believe that the deviation from the projections is so miniscule...it makes me think that most people are predicting based on projections...or that we are all of a very, very similiar mind when it comes to our players...

by azruavatar on Feb 3, 2006 4:57 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

When a guy's been consistent
it makes sense that predictions mostly all be within a fairly narrow range.

A healthy Scott Rolen always hits between .270-.300, has on OBP between .360-.390, slugs .500-.570, with 25-30 homers, and around 100 rbi.

Only one or two predictions had him much below those ranges, and only a few had him above. Because that's what Rolen has  shown that he does.

by salvomania on Feb 3, 2006 7:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

if anybody has the bill james projection
for rolen, please post it here. ditto ron shandler's projection

by lboros on Feb 3, 2006 11:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Shandler
I've got the Shandler projection at home.  If no one has posted it by the time I get home from work, I'll take care of it.  

Brett S.

by bschulte on Feb 3, 2006 11:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Shandler BF2006 Projection
AB:  434 (Shandler doesn't have PA)
Avg: 260
OBP: 345
Slg: 447
HR:  16
RBI: 78
R:   71

Apparently Shandler's projection system shows a bum shoulder...

Brett

by bschulte on Feb 3, 2006 4:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

thank you sir
bum shoulder ---- ow

by lboros on Feb 3, 2006 6:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff Weaver -- ick!
from Rotoworld.com

"The Angels remain open to signing Jeff Weaver, but they're not going longer than one year with an option for 2007 to get him.
The Los Angeles Times believes the Cardinals and Mets are also interested in Weaver, although the Mets have denied it."

I sincerely hope not...Jeff Weaver is not going to get us closer to a pennant.  I vaguely recall Jocketty saying no to this previously but it worries me that we are still hearing rumors about it...

by azruavatar on Feb 3, 2006 5:18 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

on a one-year contract
i'd be fine with weaver. we could then trade marquis supps or mulder for outfield help and plug ponson or (hopefully) reyes into the vacated slot.

players like that won't kill you for one year. they'll kill you if you commit to them for 3-4 years at big bucks.  (think tino.)

by lboros on Feb 3, 2006 9:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

weaver
i'm with lboros, i think Weaver would be an upgrade over Suppan or Marquis, last years stats be damned. I think he's an upgrade, and gives us flexability to trade Marquis...

but i doubt the truth to the rumors, as Jocketty flat out denied interest not long ago.

by erik on Feb 3, 2006 10:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bill James projection
Plate appearances: 503
Avg: 286
OBP: 381
Slg: 519
HR: 26
RBI: 98
R: 90

I've been out of town and have missed all the fun so far.  I'm looking forward to more!

by Laura on Feb 3, 2006 2:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

thanks very much
for the james data --- now added to the table above

by lboros on Feb 3, 2006 6:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

wow
i essentially nailed James' projection, on my beer gut!

by onephinepeace on Feb 4, 2006 3:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And for a sneak preview...
... http://www.worldbaseballclassic.com/2006/rosters/index.jsp?sid=t841

(In case I screwed up the link, that's the Italian roster for the WBC. Simo looks like the ace of the staff, to me.)

DCGreg

by DCGreg on Feb 3, 2006 8:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe it's just me...
but I think we get the point with the projections.  Our semi-educated guesses are going to be close to what ZIPS, PECOTA etc will do because after all, those are educated guesses as well.  They may or may not be better educated guess, but it's still a guess and is apparently not that much different from our own.

On another note, Baseball America had its Early Draft Preview and rated Chesterfield native Max Scherzer the #3 draft prospect and #2 pitcher, also gave him the best fastball in the country (assuming listed first=best, only makes sense)

"Best Fastball: The best position in the draft may be hard throwers, particularly among the college ranks. RHP Max Scherzer (3) regularly pushed his fastball into the upper 90s as a closer in 2004 in the Northwoods League, hitting 98 mph, and as a starter for Missouri, he sat at 97 in the ninth inning of a victory against Nebraska in 2005."

From Team USA:

"Max Scherzer (Missouri, So., Chesterfield, Mo.) started and earned the win for Team USA. Scherzer (2-1) faced one batter in the seventh, allowing two runs on five hits and two walks with seven strikeouts over 6.0-plus innings. Scherzer's final strikeout of the night ended the sixth inning and was registered at 99 miles per hour."

I've seen on some ESPN boards (so who knows on the reliability of this) that Scherzer is being "advised" by none other than Scott Boras, so who knows...could pull an Ankiel and fall into our laps; guy that can hit 99 in the 6th/97 in the 9th in college is pretty damn useful and would probably be a Cards fan considering geographics unless he moved to Stl or something.

I know I plan on making the trip over to Mizzou to see him this year.

A diamond is just a lump of coal that performed well under pressure

by joker24 on Feb 3, 2006 11:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Scherzer
I saw him pitch, in between a marathon beer per-hole round of golf at Gustin. viewing from the practice range in right field so it might just be me but... all i have to say, nolan ryan '76 Angels hard. and i bet he has a good head lock upper cut combo too.

by onephinepeace on Feb 4, 2006 3:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Re the projections:
They may not be so useful for a guy like Rolen when you make the assumption that he;s going to get 500+ ab: if the gets that many AB he's probably healthy, we all know what a healthy Rolen can do, so our projections all pretty much fall in a range.

But we have seen some interesting things with each of the three proejctions so far:

--Edmonds, a lot of people seem to think he's settling into a gradual decline, so that he'll still be among the best CF producers in the game, but almost no one thinks he'll be at the level he was as at recently as 2004.

--Mulder, the group almost universally decreed his 2004 to be an aberration, and the majority expect him to be better in '06 than '05, even as good as his 2001-03 peak (I'm not one of the optimists).

--Rolen, almost the entire group thinks he will be at least 90% of the player he was before the injury (not to say he'll hit his 2004 peaks, just that he'll be more or less the player he'd been from 1997-2004).

For me, the really interesting subjects are players who have been all over the map (Spivey, to a lesser extent, Encarnacion), or players with little track record (I, for one, think that Yadier is going to develop into a fine Major League hitter).

by salvomania on Feb 4, 2006 1:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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