I would like to have gotten Randy Wolf or Jason Schmidt, even if that meant overpaying by a lot. Sometimes you have to overpay to get exactly what you want, and Jocketty may have been willing to do that for Schmidt. But it still didn't happen.

The rush to get the "next best" pitcher available has been comical, and I agree that the "no names" we can put out there may be much better as well as much cheaper.

Weaver would have to be crazy not to get back on board after the make-over Duncan gave him. And I see him getting better. But Suppan is unlikely to be any better than he was last year--excellent when he's on, but extremely vulnerable when he's pitching in a hitter's park or doesn't have his best command. And over the next three years, he's likely to slide slowly down hill just as Woody Williams did.

I never realized how bad our starting pitching was in 2006.

I still feel we HAVE to sign one more guy. I just don't see anyone in this rotation having long outings after Carpenter very often. I mean that is why Suppan was nice. He threw in a couple 7 or 8 innings pitching performances in during the season. Groundballer's can be more efficient wow strike out pitchers need more pitches so by the 6th they are hitting 100 pitches. Even if they are pitching good.

The one nice thing about watching young guys from your organization pitch. Even if they fail it is still enjoyable. Its like a Dad watching his kid pitch. Thats why I am happy to see the Cardinals finally take a step in the right direction and focusing on holding on to talent. It just takes patience.

I was looking at BP and they were saying the market is up 47% from last year in terms of baseball contracts. So any big deals from last year seem rather cheap about now. The increase is from higher revenue across of all MLB from various sources.

It made me think if you were smart enough to predict this trend of higher revenue than predicted higher spending. Than a higher rate of inflation and invested heavy last year. You could be viewed as awfully smart the next year. The Jays GM instantly came to my mind.

I'm interested to see what LA would want for Brad Penny.  I think he'd slot in nicely as the #2 if we fail to re-sign Weaver.  His #'s are pretty good and he made $5.5 million last year.  

I'd like to add an insurance arm as a long-reliever/sometime starter and also add another arm for the bullpen.  As you mentioned, Mr. Borowsky, John Thomson would be excellent in the role and Brad Thompson would be the long reliever/mop up guy.

I'm also curious about what it would take to sign Claussen, given his non-tender and current medical state.

Although plenty of evidence to state otherwise, I'm having a hard time seeing the current rotation as being even one game better than last season's which included such fantastic fizzles as Mulder, Marquis and Ponson. Just a gut feeling type of thing that says, "this can't be good."  

Yet, I do agree Cards have been prudent to be patient and can only hope they are able to somehow swing a deal for one more quality pitcher during the season. I'm still hoping Mulder is resigned for a mid-season booster shot as I feel he'll come back OK and finish season strong. Again, nothing more than a gut feeling.

And while I sure would have preferred Walt had made a Freddy Garcia type of deal as the Phillies did, I do advocate emphasis on player development and promotion from within the Cards system. There is nothing better than a good-to-great farm system annually turning out talent. I like to see more money spent there on best in the business scouts, coaches, etc.

It's a move I wanted to happen last spring and I'm glad it's happening now.  Wainwright is more useful as a starter and if Izzy goes down he'll be back to his role as closer.  The team will also have a ton of money to spend to acquire a big name starter at the trade deadline, if need be.

Logically, given the status of this overhyped and inflated market, promoting from within is the best move to play.

last offseason all we kept hearing was what we missed out on and then when all was said and done, walt vowed to make a deal at the deadline... well that deal never did come to light (unless you count the belliard for luna trade, which i still dont like)

i just hope that this year we can actually make something happen and actually IMPROVE THE TEAM, it seems like we have done nothing but go downhill since that mulder trade

i love what walt j. has done for the team in the past, but its simply a case of "what have you done for me lately"

i worry sometimes, but worrying all year last year brought us a championship... oh the irony

i would like to apologize for the way my comments sounded yesterday. i didn't mean them as a personal attack on valatan, who i think is a very good writer. it was simply meant to be an observation but obviously it was insulting and got a little out of hand and i appologize for that to valatan and the rest of veb.

It's funny how much hand wringing we do, myself included, over who is going to fill our rotation or will we get another bat.  Next season's outcome will depend on the continued greatness of Pujols and Carpenter.  That fact alone makes me look forward to opening day.  Whether our other starter is Thompson, Suppan, or Weaver it's not going to matter without numbers 5 or 29.

more comfortable about this season with somebody like Penny or Weaver aboard, but if not I still think it worthwhile to risk missing playoffs for a year to give Reyes and Wainwright a chance to get a season's worth of experience and go after some "name" next off-season if those two just don't quite step up. If they (or just one) really grows into his true potential we'll be damn happy campers come 08. There will always be chances to overpay a "name," but having two kids with the high potential for the upside Reyes and Wainwright represent isn't something that happens often. If a good deal for Penny or Weaver can be worked out, do it. If w're talking more bloated contracts we'll be sorry for later, forget it. As you say, there will be chances during the season to pick up somebody as well. Hell, even the dominant teams of the 40's, 60's, and 80's didn't make postseason EVERY year of their respective decades (and yes, I know those were different systems and different times--but the point is the same). I say roll the dice and see what the young guys can or can't do. Winning it all this year has bought the club the trust and patience a rebuilding year requires in my book. Who knows? We may be sitting atop the pile again come October anyway. The Reds and Brewers look to be the toughest competitors, and well, they haven't proven squat yet either. Milwaukee didn't get within spitting distance of us last year--and while the Reds did, they flamed out in the stretch. The Cubs are better, but 25 games better? Nada. Astros? Without Pettite or Clemens they look to be worse. I think we'll still be in the mix and that's all I look for. If we end the season in 3rd or 4th place, then I'll be right with the clamoring crowd for some overspending on "names" next year. But I say let the young guns have their chance this year. It may prove to be the wisest move the Birds have made in years.  

Making Wainwright and Reyes fixtures in the rotation for 2007 serves a key goal of building this franchise's competitive ability for the future--without having to be abysmal like the Tigers were.  The wise spending on the "core" players ensures that, even while the next wave of talent is developed, the Cardinals will remain competitive, at least within their own division.

Don't get your dobbers down--this team won't be like the 2003 Tigers or the 2007 Washington Nationals.  Even without a "true" No. 2 starter, this team is a LONG way from rock bottom.

Not that I'm complaining about a half naked woman, but why am I seeing an ad for bras on a Cardinals fan site?

Why can't people understand how good Suppan has been for us? I don't understand why some people think that he will all of the sudden suck next year. With what he has done for us in years past and mostly what he did for us in the NLCS last year, why not overpay to retain his services?

He is good, not great, but good. Weigh these options and tell me your answer: Looper/Thompson, overpaying for an average outside arm that we are not sure of the product we are getting, or overpay for Suppan and know exactly what to expect. My vote goes for Suppan  and hopefully others feel that way.

As for the outfield, why did or does everyone expect Enc to be all that great? His numbers last year were right around his average which is the same as the league average for right fielders. We got what we paid for out of him. I wouldn't mind a Trot Nixon, but that means getting rid of Enc and if we do that, I want someone that will help the team this year, not prospects.

I would love to have Mulder back and I hope it does come back. The only problem I see with this is if he won't be back until June or July, what do we do before his return? If we try and throw Thompson or Looper, I think we may be 3rd or 4th in the central when Mulder gets back.

Well then maybe Narvie. To me, that's a lot better then Thompson/Looper. But what if Narvie is on fire when Mulder comes back? Say he has a record of 7-2.

That would be an awesome "tough" situation to be in.

I still want Wainer in the pen and Mulder and Suppan back, but the way things are going, that is going to remain a wish.

With Mulder we will be searching for 2 starter again next year because he will only sign a 1 year deal and Wells will be a free agent.

With Suppan, we can lock him up for 2 or 3 years and focus on adding to the rotation, not trying to replace.

That was me.
Listen, I'm going to reiterate that Suppan sucks.  I'm also going to repost below the "retort" stats that Mr. Clean posted:

       2004  2005  2006  04-06
IP:    188   194   190   191
W:     16    16    12    15
L:     9     10    7     9
H:     192   206   207   202
SO/BB: 1.7   1.8   1.5   1.7
ERA:   4.17  3.57  4.12  3.95
WHIP:  1.37  1.39  1.45  1.40

OK.  To review.  A 1.40 ERA over three years is atrocious.  Ditto a 1.66 K/BB ratio.  Ditto a 5.16 K/9 rate.  A .272 cumulative BAA?  Pretty bad.  A 3.09 BB/9 rate?  Decent.  Merely decent.

But you know what's really scary about those numbers?  Those were his PEAK YEARS.

Here's the thing.  A (barely) sub-4.00 ERA makes Suppan look like he didn't suck.  But that's an illusion, folks.  His supporting numbers were truly bad.  

If you didn't notice, the Cardinals put a lot of emphasis on only signing players who can pull their weight defensively.  Rolen, Edmonds, and Pujols are Gold Glovers.  Best at their positions in the league, or at least they have been for a good chunk of the time Suppan's been here.

Add to this that the now-departed Grudz was a Gold Glover this year.  Add to this the fact that the Cardinals accept Molina's (and Matheny's) complete uselessness on offense because of their defensive skill.  See also, in this vein: Juan Encarnacion, So Taguchi, Aaron Miles, David Eckstein...  the list goes on an on.

What I'm saying is that the perenially outstanding Cardinals defense, combined with the great baseball atmosphere in STL, has a way of making just about any pitcher look a lot better than he really is.  (See: Scott Schoeneweis, Darren Oliver, Kent Bottenfield, and so many other retread, soft-tossing scrubs we've made look good since the early 90s).  

You'd almost HAVE to be an obese alcoholic not to raise your game here (see: Sidney Ponson), and even if you are, you're likely to do a lot better here than you will in, say, Texas (see: Vicente Padilla).

This is the reason why the Cardinals don't ever sign strikeout pitchers.  It's not that they don't "value" strikeouts, as some have suggested on these boards.  It's that strikeouts are expensive, and with their defense as good as it is, they refuse to overpay for them.  Their MO is to get just about any warm body they can who doesn't have an absolutely irreparable control problem (see: Ankiel), get them to pitch to the strike zone, even without good stuff, and force hiters to put the ball in play, where, more likely than not, it's going to find an outstanding defender to gobble it up.

This does NOT mean that Jeff Suppan is good.  And it does NOT mean that GOOD pitchers will also pitch better in STL, just like BAD pitchers will.  The fact that Suppan's ERA was under 4.00 is misleading, and the fact that so many of you all out there accept this as meaning that, gee, guess he was pretty good after all--Walt was right again!--gives him the public support he needs to keep on bargain shopping, even though he's got the fattest annual revenue stream this side of New York and Boston.

I'm sick of this crap.  Sign Weaver.

I also noticed yesterday that someone wrote, in response to my encouragement to sign Weaver, something like "Well they wouldn't give Burnett 5 years, so what makes you think they'd give Weaver 4?"  

Well  here's the thing: they DIDN'T GET Burnett.  What needs to be understood is that the Cardinals are not gauging the market correctly.  Another way of saying it is that they are CHEAP, year after year, in such a way that players feel disrespected by their offers, and we keep getting chumps like Kip Wells on the roster.

Give Weaver his four years.  Give him his $8-$9 per.  That's the going rate.  Deal with it. I'm all for putting Reyes and Wainwright in the rotation.  But Thompson?  LOOPER?  That we are even being forced, as fans, to confront these possibilities, after how many (?) seasons of 3 million+ attendance and a huge WS financial windfall, is disgraceful.

I'm not saying that Kip Wells isn't a good sign.  Great things were said about him coming up, as they were with Weaver.  STL has a way of working its magic, year after year, for the above-stated reasons.  But if they can make Wells look like a decent major league starter, just imagine what they could do with Weaver...

Suppan is a good pitcher. I know we get people here who overachieve because of the great Cardinal defense and having the Albert/Rolen/Edmonds caliper offense. But do you really think that is the only reason Suppan was as good as he has been the last 3 years?

 15-9 with a 3.95 ERA? Why does that look so bad to you? I will take it. His 4.00 ERA might be an illusion, the same as Marquis' 6.02 (or whatever it was) was blowm up because TLR left him in there to chew up innings. Either way, his ERA is under 4.00 with 15 wins a season. How many wins did Carp get last year? I think 15 with a 3.09 ERA and 8 losses. I'll take what Suppan can give us.

I know this is bold, but I think a comparison of Carp's 2006 and Suppan's average over the last 3 years will do him justice.

Carp 2006
15-8, 3.09 ERA, 3rd in the cy young voting

Suppan average(2004,2005,2006)
15-9, 3.95 ERA, not as dominate as Carp, but still produces for us.

Believe me, i would take Carp on 3 days rest over a full rested Suppan every day of the week. But how is this guy not a good #2 behind Carp?

I'm sure this has been posted (but not by me so I haven't read it... ü ) but we are really fortunate to have such a good GM. I didn't like the Gant signing from the moment I heard it, was excited about his worst deal (Mulder, et al) until it played out, and was indifferent about JuanE and Weaver. But, I clearly remember the 70s (blah) and the 90s (yuk) before the new ownership took over and I will take Walt's leadership any day of the week. The Cardinals are consistently competitive and, as we all saw in October (finally), all you have to do is get in the playoffs and then anything can happen.

My vote for St. Louisan of the year: Walter J. The side by side list of good moves/bad moves is heavily weighted to the sunny side.

ESPN's page 2 has Boras vs Borat.

Figured you guys would get a laugh, I did.