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answer man

another travel day for me; back out to denver. i'll be away from the internet all day and hence can almost guarantee a number of big moves involving the cardinals will go down today . . . .

a few quick items from over the holiday. first, dave roberts is apparently ready to sign with the giants for 3 yr / $5.5m --- more than the amount i postulated a couple of weeks ago, but still an incredible bargain in this market. the giants remain bereft of position players; it's too bad they have nothing they can give jocketty in return for chris duncan, because they have openings at 1st base and left field. but they aren't going to be offering noah lowry or matt cain for dunc, and the players they probably would make available (brad hennesey?) aren't nearly enough in exchange for duncan . . .

second, david pinto has posted his defensive rankings at two more positions, shortstop and right field. eckstein rates as a solidly average shortstop with the glove; encarnacion, as an above-average right fielder. i found it interesting that pinto listed brian giles as the very worst fielder at s position in 2006; chris dial (using his zone-rating-based system) named him the nl gold-glover in right field . . .

you VEBbers did an impressive job on the quiz about trades/signings of off-seasons past. nearly every question got answered correctly somewhere in the thread. here are all the questions again, with answers:

  1. only two st louis free-agent signees have made the all-star team in their 1st year as a cardinal. only 1 started the game. name both players, and the one who started the game. ANS: eckstein started the game in 2005; tom henke made the team in 1995.
  2. during the years they played in busch stadium ii (1966-2005), only two players the cardinals acquired via trade started the all-star game in their 1st year with st louis. name them. ANS: edmonds in 2000 and richie allen in 1970. rick wise came close --- he started the all-star game in 1973, his second year as a cardinal.
  3. name all the pitchers the cardinals have signed during the free-agent era (1976-2006) who made 30 starts in their first year as a cardinal. ANS: there are only two: jeff suppan in 2004 and andy benes in 1996. kent mercker came close in 1998, starting 29 games; bryn smith made 25 starts in 1990. a cautionary note, insofar as the team will likely ask three free-agent pitchers to hold down rotation spots in 2007. . . .
  4. which free-agent signee holds the record for rbis in his first year as a cardinal? ANS: ron gant, with 82 rbi in 1996. juan encarnacion, with 79 rbi last season, is second.
  5. since world war II, he holds the cardinal record for wins by a newly acquired pitcher (either via trade or free agency) in his first season with the organization. ANS: john tudor, 21 wins in 1985.
  6. one of key members of the 1964 cardinals was acquired as a free agent --- a three-time all-star, he'd been released by his former team at the age of 30. name him. ANS: curt simmons won 115 games for the phillies in his teens and 20s but was considered washed up at the age of 31. released a month into the 1960 season, he latched on with the cardinals and stayed with them for 6+ seasons, winning 69 games.
  7. name the first free agent the cardinals signed during the free-agent era. ANS: perennially short of left-handed pitching help in the 1970s, the cardinals kicked off the 1980s by signing the immortal don hood. in that innocent pre-sabermetric era, nobody looked at k/bb ratio --- hood's was a god-awful 29-44 in 1979 (ie, 1.5 walks per strikeout) and 73-77 in 1978. he went 4-6 with a 3.39 era for the cards in 1980.
  8. name the first african-american player the cardinals ever acquired in a trade. ANS: as musial6 pointed out in the thread, the cards' first-ever african american player, tom alston, was in fact a trade acquisition --- i did not realize that. it was a minor-league transaction, which is how i missed it. the answer i had in mind --- the first player the cards acquired in a big-league transaction --- was pitcher sam jones, acquired before the 1957 season for a buncha nobodies. in the second of his two years with the cardinals (ie, 1958), jones won a strikeout title and nearly won an era title. they traded him in 1959 to san francisco for 1st baseman bill white; jones won the era title that year, led the nl in wins, and finished 2d in the cy young voting.
  9. what player did the cardinals have to trade for twice in a single off-season (within a span of about 6 weeks), and what were the circumstances? ANS: the day after losing the 1968 world series to the detroit tigers, the cardinals traded backup catcher johnny edwards to houston for relief pitcher dave giusti. giusti was supposed to take the place of wayne granger, traded along with bobby tolan earlier that day to cincinnati in exchange for vada pinson. but three days after the trade, the san diego padres made giusti their 2d pick (3d overall) in the expansion draft. the cardinals also lost their #5 starter, larry jaster, in that draft (the expos made him their 24th pick), and middle reliever dick hughes retired. suddenly short of innings, the cardinals got giusti back from san diego on december 3 --- gave up four players to get him, including ed spiezio (scott's dad). so, all in all, they traded five guys for giusti, who threw 100 innings in 1969 and went 3-7; they dealt him away one year later and he became one of the nl's top relief aces. (p.s.: check out the dedication at giusti's baseball-reference.com page.)
  10. during calendar year 1973, bing devine included a certain player in four separate trades --- acquired him, dealt him away, re-acquired him, and dealt him away again. name the player. ANS: the player is mike nagy. the cards acquired him on january 24, then lost him as a PTBNL in a trade they made a week later; apparently they hadn't meant to include him in the PTBNL pool, because in june the cards got him back for jim bibby. all this for an injured pitcher --- he'd thrown just 38 innings in 1971 and 2 in 1972, and wouldn't make his first 1973 appearance until august 8 . . . . . he made 7 starts for the cardinals down the stretch, went 0-2 with a 4.20 era, and got traded on december 9 for a player whose big-league career lasted just 3 at-bats.

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Dedication
Wow, it reminds us all that not too long ago most payers had jobs in the off season.

by Zubin on Nov 27, 2006 9:45 AM EST reply actions  

Good article....
on foxsports.com regarding the cardinals and the chances of them repeating as champs. Check it out if you get time.
"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Nov 27, 2006 9:50 AM EST reply actions  

In regards to Pinto...
The data I saw on Pujols (referred to in previous post) was a 3-year total from 2004-2006, not 2006 alone.  Also, I'm not sure how 39 hits is worth 30 runs?

by RedbirdRay on Nov 27, 2006 10:06 AM EST reply actions  

As good/ better than Roberts, IMO....
Frank Catalanotto and his .376 OBP to Texas for 3 years/ $13MM with an option for a 4th year.  Cat doesn't really have any speed to speak of, but he's a month short of two full years younger than Roberts.  Although I suppose he can't play center, Catalanotto was mentioned as an interesting 2B option.

I though this deal would've at least been worth considering for the Cards.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Nov 27, 2006 10:19 AM EST reply actions  

No credit to this(that I know of)....
On StlToday's message board they are throwing around a three team trade rumor involving the Cards. I have no idea if there is any backing to it I just thought it would make for interesting discussion so here it is....
Cards Get:
Andruw Jones
Jake Peavy

San Diego gets:
Marcus Giles
Anthony Reyes
and another minor league pitcher from the cardinals didnt catch the name

Atlanta gets:
Colby Rasmus
Tyler Johnson
Scott Linebrink
Juan Encarnacion
a minor leaguer for SD

"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Nov 27, 2006 10:47 AM EST reply actions  

sounds like a STL rumor
gotta love the 3-way deals made up by fans of one of the three teams. they always look really impressive for their team. if this actually happened, i'd wet myself on the spot.
Pujols For MVP!

by TheFranchise9 on Nov 27, 2006 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

That sounds more plausible than a lot of these dea
but I still don't see the Pads dealing away Jake Peavy.  Still, that addresses StL's outfield concerns, and gives a second ace to plug in the rotation alongside Carp.  ATL gets a bunch of young players with potential as they try to rebuild, while SD gets the 2B they've been looking for and a young cheap pitcher to help defray the loss of Peavy.  I think they get the short end of this deal, unless they get one of Hawksworth/Lambert, and maybe a single A player of their choice.

But interesting...

by Valatan on Nov 27, 2006 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Which CF would swallow their pride...
and move to LF? Jimmy or Andruw?

That trade is pretty bogus sounding :P

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Nov 27, 2006 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

That was my thoughts when I heard it....
First of all, it just sounds like a playstation game trade. Second, I can't imagine Jimmy or Jones playing anything other than centerfield. however, Carpenter, peavy, wainwright,....sounds quite nice.
"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Nov 27, 2006 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

That was my thoughts when I heard it....
First of all, it just sounds like a playstation game trade. Second, I can't imagine Jimmy or Jones playing anything other than centerfield. however, Carpenter, peavy, wainwright,....sounds quite nice.
"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Nov 27, 2006 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry I clicked twice..
"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Nov 27, 2006 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It's insane
but more plausible than most that I've heard--I thought that I heard rumors that Andruw is losing range, and might be more suited to move to one of the corners--if this is the case, than start with Andruw in right, and Edmonds in center, and rotate the two around as injuries and rest days suggest.

I don't see this trade happening, but I could see something along the lines of it happening (in particular, I see StL having to give up more than is listed), as all three teams satisfy needs that they have.

by Valatan on Nov 27, 2006 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

A. Jones is a 10-5 player
who has publicly stated that he didn't want to leave ATL last midseason.  Plus Boras is is agent who pushes clients to test the market (which is reasonable given the market right now) so he'd be a one and done kind of deal.

Peavy interests me but I'd rather just hold onto Reyes and Rasmus and Johnson.  Its an interesting trade but an awfully complicated one imo.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Nov 27, 2006 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Bernie
already debunked it.  Reyes and Giles isn't nearly enough for Peavy.  I believe that was discussed here a few days ago.

by Zubin on Nov 27, 2006 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Free Agents
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15898224/site/3000001/from/RS.3/

According to MSNBC Drew is ready to sign a 4 year deal with the Sox.  At $12M/ year he may be an east coast bargain based on his production, but I have to imagine he will whither is the heat of the east coast press.  My guess is either way this takes Drew to retirement.  Given his history, I can't imagine him playing past his age 34 or 35 season.

by Zubin on Nov 27, 2006 1:00 PM EST reply actions  

actually
that article states he is demanding no less than $14M/yr.  This doesn't seem like such a bargain to me - considering his affinity for the DL.

by _pistol_ on Nov 27, 2006 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Nervous
When is it OK to get nervous? Last year, I kept telling everyone to calm down because Walt rarely makes a move until after the December Meetings, but this year they have so many holes to fill and there isn't even any credible speculation. (Other than Hadley, whose speculations in the past are more vague than horoscopes, and less likely to be applicable. I am still waiting for that HUGE move by the St. Louis Blues that he promised would happen right before the NHL draft.)

The only thing we have heard is Kennedy (unlikely IMO) and that they are talking to the same 6 middle of the road starters as everyone else, but are not the front-runner on any except Weaver...and with Boras, that too is unlikely IMO.

I like the 3 team trade idea because it at least gives us something to speculate about.

How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!

by Elvis on Nov 27, 2006 1:48 PM EST reply actions  

What I think
  1. Every FA SP that is not signed by us, is one more step closer to Adam Wainwright being a starter. Which IMHO is a good thing.
  2. Don't sign sh*t if you don't have to. Listen, these guys are okay pitchers, but to spend crazy money on them is ridiculous. You are not going to get the production for the price. We sign any of these guys, and I'm sure a few posts during the season will go something like this...
"Jesus Padilla! Why the hell are we paying you 7 mil a year for? For a 4.50 ERA? You SUCK!" THen more posts will agree and show charts and say why we should have signed Burnett.
  1. Our pitching will be aquired by trade. Everybody will be pissed too because we will hurt the farm again. (EX. HarenCalero for Mulder)
  2. Our rotation will look like this.
a. Carp
b. Wainwright
c. Reyes
d. Awesome trade (J. santana*)
e. Scrap heap sh*t (trachsel*)
*=examples

THese are a few things that have been running in my head. But right now I'm going to watch the WS DVD because "I forgot" to watch it yesterday.

Here Comes the King! Here Comes the Big #1! Budweiser Beer the King is Second to None!

by OKCardsfan on Nov 27, 2006 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I would relax
since they probably don't want to give up any draft picks, Walt will wait untl Dec. 2 to announce/ink any deals.

by Red in Chicago on Nov 27, 2006 1:49 PM EST reply actions  

Chone Figgins
Just read on ESPN Rumor Central that the Halos are shopping Chone Figgins now that they have signed Gay Matthews Jr. to play center and lead-off. Figgins would be a great fit to play second for us. He can play just about everywhere (2nd, 3rd, LF, CF) and is pretty cheap... 2.3 mil. He has a bit of pop, a career .345 obp and is a lock for 50 SBs a year. I would love to see Figgins in a Cardinals uni next year and playing (mostly) second base and hitting lead-off or second behind Eck.

by BigMac545 on Nov 27, 2006 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

interesting thought
but how's his middle infield defense?  yahoo has him listed as primarily 3b and center.

by gthedamned on Nov 27, 2006 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Chone Figgins
It would be nice to acquire a 2B that could also play CF, that way, 30 games a year he could spell Edmonds against lefties, while Miles and Speezer fill in at the keystone.

Jose Cruz Jr., Jose Guillen, Spiezio, Wilson, Payton, or whoever, provide you with a platoon and defensive replacement for Duncan.

Neither Duncan or Edmonds ever needs to start against a lefty, and Edmonds gets plenty of rest.

How sweet would that be?

(he posted a five run positive RAR in 42 games at 2B  in 2005, someone who knows more about his defense can comment there)

by plh903 on Nov 27, 2006 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

but....
who do we give up?

I doubt they'd take Looper.

by Fitz on Nov 27, 2006 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I was looking at his stats
He bats pretty well against lefties! Good plus and yes, he would be a good pickup!
:D

by lynx on Nov 27, 2006 4:27 PM EST reply actions  

eaton
just signed w/ the Phils - according the unmentionable network.

by _pistol_ on Nov 27, 2006 4:40 PM EST reply actions  

eh...
he wasn't our type anyway.
o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Nov 27, 2006 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree.
problem being, I don't see any available FA that is our type.  

by _pistol_ on Nov 27, 2006 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

i hear ya...
If there is one, though, I'd have to say its Vicente Padilla.  Groundballer, decent strikeouts, decent durability, decent ability to keep the ball in the park.  Nothing exceptionally good, nothing exceptionally terrible.  I've posted the numbers before, I'm too lazy to do it this time, so feel free to call me out if I'm forgetting something.
o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Nov 27, 2006 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Mark Mulder is our type of FA
once great pitcher with a former solid strikeout rate, coming off of shoulder surgery who can be had at a bargain of what he once would have gotten.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 27, 2006 10:32 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree.
o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Nov 27, 2006 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

$8M/yr
seems like a bargain to me in this market.  We'll see if the others  -Padilla, Meche Wolf, etc fall in line.  It would seem that Suppan could be attained for about a million more per year.  

by _pistol_ on Nov 27, 2006 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

For Suppan
9 million a year would be an awful lot.

by Carps on Nov 27, 2006 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I will
feel much better when the Cardinals make a move. Even if it is minor. This is resembling last off season, and we ended up with "the contract" in RF. C'mon Walt pull the trigger buddy.
"Forget about the curveball Ricky...Give him the heater!!"

by BleacherBum on Nov 27, 2006 5:08 PM EST reply actions  

not to mention
the other overly generous contract given our right-handed setup specialist.

by _pistol_ on Nov 27, 2006 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Come on
$5M a year for a league average player is hardly an albatross.  It's not bargain shopping, but it's not a horrendous disaster.

Who would you have signed last winter, since Enc was such a horrible, enormous dud?

by Valatan on Nov 27, 2006 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

It is an albatross
League average...available replacement galore in AAA.  There is no reason at all to give league average millions of dollars and never, ever, ever a reason to give league average a multi-year contract.  Absurd.  

by RedbirdRay on Nov 27, 2006 5:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Who would I have signed?
No one...

The Nationals sent Church down to AA.

Mench was thrown on a deal as icing.

Dellucci was had for less.

All would have been great in our plattoon driven outfield.

by RedbirdRay on Nov 27, 2006 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Juan Million Dollars
RBR,

There's a big difference between league average and replacement level.  Juan was much closer to league average (when considering the defensive metrics) and this has value.  

BP puts him slightly under two wins( I don't know how much weight they put into defense).   By Cardinals standards (2m/win), that's right around the 3.5m we payed him.  Considering today's market, where marginal wins cost much more than 2m, he's a relative bargain.  Considering the back-load on his contract, he's probably right around fair-price.  

Does this mean there aren't better options?  No, clearly John Rodriguez should have been given the chance to start, and his marginal value would have been much higher.  But Juan isn't the black-hole everyone labels him.  Just do your best not to think of him gathering the ball in the right-field corner, or his Lee Trevino-esque swing.

(side note:  After the card torrid 17-8 April, the team struggled.  Yet Juan put up a line around .290/.330/.470 after May 1 and he put up a .367/.385/.551 in June, when Pujols went down [arguably when we needed Juan's help the most].  He was a somewhat stabilizing force in a injury plagued, inconsistent line-up)    

by Jonathan23 on Nov 27, 2006 6:53 PM EST up reply actions  

well
at least we didn't pay through the nose for Baez...if you're referring to Looper right now

by erik on Nov 27, 2006 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow
Is it just me or is getting Randy Wolf for $6-7 mil for one year a huge steal? That's not extremely risky, and if he got back to his old form he could be a huge, key asset. I'm definitely jealous of the deal that the Dodgers got on him . . .
Acquire Barry Zito!

by aet15 on Nov 27, 2006 5:59 PM EST reply actions  

mlbtraderumors.com...
... is reporting that the Dodgers are about to sign Wolf, and are trying to get Maddox.

so Wolf, Eaton, Williams are all off the table. the Cards need three guys, or two + bullpen help (start Wainwright).

Padilla, Wells, Weaver. it's starting to look like we'll need all three of them, and that's still not a very strong rotation. especially for what we'd have to pay for it.

unless Jock pulls out some amazingly awesome trade, i've got a feeling that Cardinal Nation isn't going to be very happy with this off-season.

by kindred on Nov 27, 2006 6:05 PM EST reply actions  

they just need to face it
they're probably gonna get screwed by somebody's agent in this market. They have the money, i'd like to see them be a little more aggresive as the domninoes are falling now. they'll have to overpay someone with 2, 3 holes in the rotation, it's just the nature of the beast right now.

by erik on Nov 27, 2006 6:37 PM EST up reply actions  

The last thing we need is bullpen help
we have too many arms littering the field and signing FA relievers is a bad practice imo.  

RHP:
Looper
Kinney
Thompson
Hancock
Cavazos
Dove
Falkenborg
Sosa (if offered arbitration)
Izzy (DL)
Hawksworth

LHP:
Rincon (DL)
Flores
Johnson
Keisler

Starters(?)
Wainwright
Narveson

That's just what's sitting on our 40 man roster that probably won't be a starter.  I really don't think the team is short on relievers and that many of these guys could be eased into bullpen roles in low pressure situations.  The core group (Looper, Kinney, Thompson, Hancock, Flores, Johnson) is all there.  They just need to decide on a closer and fill in some low pressure spots.  

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Nov 27, 2006 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't disagree...
... but having a strong, consistent arm to shore up the back IS important, especially on a TLR team. with Izzy's injury leaving his entire season in doubt, and his lapse in effectiveness even when healthy, pulling Wainwright out of the pen without adding another effective arm does damage the team.

i'm not saying there's a viable option out there. i certainly wouldn't want the Cards paying the kind of money that Baez got for someone of his value. but what i am saying is that the decision to move Wainwright to the rotation is made much harder without an obvious replacement for him.

let's not forget that the prior to the playoffs, the Cards' bullpen in '06 was a weakness... not a strength.

by kindred on Nov 27, 2006 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Before looking at second-tier pitchers
I think you will see Jocketty go after one of two things:

Either a big-time pitcher, free agent or trade.

Or an "impact" bat, playing either second or OF.

Based upon the matrix numbers from before, they have roughly $35-40 million to play with. Depending upon Wainwright's status, that money has to acquire three to four players.

I can't see them paying up for a slugger AND a starter, but I suspect they know they need an upgrade at one of two positions and in the rotation.

by Red in Chicago on Nov 27, 2006 6:10 PM EST reply actions  

I have to agree
the market is not good. I posted farther up but it comes back to production for price. Woody Williams is not worth that money. Banged up, hurt, or head-case pitchers are not worth that money. That's like buying a ford focus at BMW 7-series price. Doesn't ford mean found on road dead? Can you imagine at your job being offered that kind of money, then not being very good at your job? Walt IMHO is going to trade. I also think that we will deplete our farm system again by doing it. IT's just what my gut tells me.
Here Comes the King! Here Comes the Big #1! Budweiser Beer the King is Second to None!

by OKCardsfan on Nov 27, 2006 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

trade...
... i think there may be some kind of trade, but i doubt it'll be the huge impact deal that a lot of Cards fans are expecting. we just don't have a surplus of prospects from which to deal, and teams are going to be far less willing to part with their players in this runaway market. it'll take more in terms of talent that it required before, because the cost of replacing players through FA has become so high.

Jock will just have to sign some guys. it almost doesn't even matter what they cost. at a certain point, if you want to compete, you have to get players, even if you are over-paying. and we've got the money to do it. we primarily need 4 players: 3 SP, 1 2B. and we've got 35 million to get them. that's an average of 9 million per player, which should be plenty.

then we spend a few million getting a platoon partner for Dunc and we're pretty set. the players are available, and the money is there. there won't be any sweetheart deals in this market, so just bite the bullet and get some guys... before they're all gone.

by kindred on Nov 27, 2006 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

as azruavatar said
we have a glut of relievers. those coupled with enc, dunc, or whoever has to be worth something. walt just has to find his one brogglio for brock moment this offseason.
Here Comes the King! Here Comes the Big #1! Budweiser Beer the King is Second to None!

by OKCardsfan on Nov 27, 2006 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

everybody...
... has so-so arms in their minor league system that they can plug into long relief. the shortage is for late-inning stoppers, and we have none of those to spare.

plus, i wouldn't expect Jock to pull a Brock-for-Broglio deal. for one thing, that deal was (obviously) a complete anamoly; those deals aren't routine. in addition, this is the free agent era... teams don't give up on young talent so easily. lastly, teams are much better at evaluating talent now that they were then. can you name a similarly lop-sided trade in the past 5-10 years?

didn't think so.

i really don't see the sort of impact deal that we fans would like to see. there will be something relatively minor, and that's probably it.

by kindred on Nov 27, 2006 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Lopsided deal of young talent?
Boof Bonser, Francisco Liriano, and Joe Nathan to the Twins for A.J. Pierzynski and cash.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 28, 2006 12:29 AM EST up reply actions  

worst deal in years
The Twins will remember that Pierzynski deal for forty years, like we remember Brock for Broglio. What were the Giants thinking?

by madridbend on Nov 28, 2006 1:03 AM EST up reply actions  

none of those guys...
... are HOFers. or, at least, none have yet shown themselves to be anywhere in that class. they are good players - Nathan is very good, and Liriano has strong potential - but i don't think any of them project to the Hall.

the Giants were making a run at the title, and they got an opportunity in 2002. Pierzynski was a fairly big part of that. the Twins haven't even made it to the ALCS in that time.

it certainly wasn't a good trade for the Giants, but i don't think it's in the same class as the Brock/Broglio swap. the Cardinals won a World Series with Brock, and made it to two other game 7s, in large part because of his contributions. he also broke all sorts of records.

by kindred on Nov 28, 2006 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I haven't heard anyone mention
Andy Petitte?  To me, he fits the bill of a vet who Dunc would work wonders for.  Plus, he's as playoff tested as they come AND he's a lefty with a devastating pickoff move.  Couple him with Yadi and there wouldn't be one guy try to steal second.

by Big Red on Nov 27, 2006 6:37 PM EST reply actions  

Pettite won't come to StL...
... he'll stay in Houston or go back to NY. both of those teams will (probably) offer him more money than StL, and he's got strong ties to both.

by kindred on Nov 27, 2006 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Petitte would be great!!!
If the price is right.

by Cylix3341 on Nov 27, 2006 6:44 PM EST reply actions  

Petitte is a dream
He won't sign with us. I hope Weaver stays, and we can fill in the holes later. 2007 is a much better year to think about for free agents, maybe we should just hang out. Throwing more money at a problem is never the answer, just ask our Congress (they will lie).
A walk is a waste of three pitches-Bob Gibson

by orlando card on Nov 27, 2006 8:32 PM EST reply actions  

Rumor on mlbtraderumors.com
is that the Cubs are one of the teams that have made offers for Manny Ramirez.  Ken Rosenthal thinks he will be moved this week (to the Giants most likely).

If Manny is moved to the Cubs, Walt better pull a rabbit out of that hat of his.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Nov 28, 2006 12:27 AM EST reply actions  

how many outfielders?
do the cubs want?

soriano, jones, ramirez, they're still talking to lugo...murton...sheesh.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Nov 28, 2006 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

i would assume...
... that Jones would be part of a trade, to platoon with Mo Pena in LF.

also, looks like the BoSox are closest to signing Lugo, and have him play in the IF.

by kindred on Nov 28, 2006 1:22 AM EST up reply actions  

re: Pinto and PMR
he also released his data for 2b.  Miles, Belliard and Luna all far pretty badly (with Miles the best of the three).  Interestingly enough, the defensively maligned Ray Durham rates better than all three by a decent margin although still a slightly negative defender.  
Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Nov 28, 2006 12:55 AM EST reply actions  

Grrr
Why in fuck didn't we resign Grudz again!

by DimitroffVodka on Nov 28, 2006 1:01 AM EST reply actions  

'cos he cost 3 mil/year
WAY too much money for an All-Star 2B.

by kindred on Nov 28, 2006 1:21 AM EST up reply actions  

per mlbtraderumor.com...
... the Cubs have offered Matt Murton, Bobby Howry, Sean Gallagher, and Donald Veal to the BoSox for Manny.

think it's enough? Sackmann doesn't. neither do i. but if the BoSox can sign both Lugo and Drew, that might not matter; Manny would be (sort of) expendable, and they'd get at least some value and insurance out of the deal.

if this happens... well, i don't want to think about it.

by kindred on Nov 28, 2006 2:05 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah
Lee, Soriano and the Ramirez brothers would be very scary.

If they got a full season out of Prior, that team would project to be tops in the NL.

by Valatan on Nov 28, 2006 2:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Then agan...
Ramirez, Soriano, Jones might be the WORST defensive outfield in the history of baseball.

by Big Red on Nov 28, 2006 8:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Besides...
refresh my memory again on which one of those guys can pitch?

by Big Red on Nov 28, 2006 8:37 AM EST up reply actions  

You know why I am not scared
You know why I am not scared of the potential rise of the Cubs?

No one gets on base in front of all these sluggers. They need to get OBP guys more than anything. Plus, they are the Cubs.

That doesn't seem like enough stuff for Manny. His contract has just become more reasonable. Plus, that just seems like throwing everything in a Trash bag and offering it up.

by DimitroffVodka on Nov 28, 2006 8:40 AM EST up reply actions  

They'll get on base for each other
2006 OBP

A. Ramirez - .352
A. Soriano - .351
D. Lee     - .368
M. Ramriez - .439

All of them at or above league average OBP, and aside from Manny not having Ortiz to protect him, each of them batting in a significantly better lineup means that each of them gets better pitches to hit.  If that lineup doesn't scare you, you're crazy

by Valatan on Nov 28, 2006 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

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