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mo money, mo problems

Posting here a day early...Just a few thoughts on the el caballo gordo deal that went down yesterday...It's growing more and more amusing to watch our division rivals get into money fights. The Carlos Lee deal almost makes the Soriano deal look good, and that's saying something. Throwing $100 mil at a corpulent left fielder who has the range of a narcoleptic cow and a career OPS of .835 doesn't quite add up to me. Mitchel Litchmann, stat guru and former advisor to the Cards had a little rant in light of the news of the deal. Per MGL at BBTF:

This is the worst signing of the off-season. It is horrendous. I defended the Soriano and Matthews signings. This one is indefensible. Lee, by all rights, is a terrible defender at this point in his career (interestingly, prior to 05, his UZR was above average). His baserunning lwts also took a nose-dive in 05. That and his UZR decline suggests that he has lost his speed. He is an average left fielder overall at best. At best. This signing has all the earmarks of a stupid team overvaluing a player - signing for big bucks a corner outfielder (not properly adjusting for defensive position) who is past his prime, just had a career year in offense, has good garbage stats, and is a terrible defender.
I'd love to hear his defense of Gary Matthews... Anyway, it's not that I think Carlos Lee will be completely awful for at least the early part of the deal, but the Astros are spinning their wheels here. First of all, the could've just signed a stop gap until Hunter Pence is ready, which could be as soon as '08. Kid projects to be pretty good, however Pence should only play LF due to defensive limitations, but he's now blocked. Also, the signing of Woody Williams makes up for a tiny fraction of what they had in Pettitte and Clemens. Neither are going to be back most likely. So together Woody and Lee project to be good for around 6 or 7 wins above replacement. When you subtract Clemens and Pettitte, figure maybe Ensberg rebounds and Hirsh does okay, the Astros aren't picking up ground, they're probably losing it or just maintaining.

Speaking of Woody, outside of Mussina resigning with the Yanks to no great suprise, he's the first domino in the FA pitcher line to fall. I'd guess the 2y/$12.5 mil deal maybe sets the bar for the mid-tier arms going rate. Well, kinda. Woody's 40 and hasn't pitched over 160 innings since '04. And maybe he's giving the Astros the home discount a tiny bit. The younger arms will be looking for more then $6m now, I'd guess. It's crazy to think Carpenter made $6.5 mil last season, and will be making $7 mil the next. What would the asking price be for him in this market? $14 or even as high as $17 mil a season perhaps? With the Cardinals looking primarily in the mid-tier pool of free agent pitchers, it seems extremely unfair to think that Jeff Weaver, Adam Eaton or whoever's in the rotation will be making as much or maybe more money then Carpenter will in '07. But I suppose no one put a gun to Carp's head, much credit to Jocketty for knowing when to pounce.

Other tidbits:

Miklasz did say that the Cardinals are interested in Jason Schmidt but he recently switched agents to the Hendricks Brothers, the same guys who snookered the Astros into paying Roger Clemens $22 mil for 19 starts last season.

Adam Kennedy is seeking a 4y/$18 mil deal. In this crazy market, that almost doesn't sound totally awful. If that 4th year can be an option, maybe you got something there. He's also a type B free agent, so no losing out an a draft pick. Loretta is a type A free agent.

I'd have to imagine roster moves are soon forthcoming. It's fun watching teams burning through cash and all, but the Birds are gonna have to do some spending of their own pretty soon here. It'll be interesting to see if they too don't find themselves swept up in the insanity, or if they can remain smart and thrifty without losing out. I hope they do something soon, if but for conversation's sake.

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I still wanna call...
My predictions in descending order of probability...

The Cardinals will sign Kip Wells for the 5th spot in the rotation.

Vicente Padilla is the best overall free agent fit for the Cardinals, but I don't believe he will be signed.

Mulder signs a 3-year deal.

Brian Lawerence will certainly come up, possibly be considered and perhaps given a non-gauranteed spring training invite.

I don't believe the Cardinals will sign Jason Schmidt, Adam Eaton, or Gil Meche

Zach Day's name might come up... but probably not.

o8o88o888o

by ilillillli on Nov 25, 2006 3:59 AM EST   0 recs

I think jock will
wait around again for a 2nd base option.  I don't see Kenedy or Loretta in our future.
 

by Zubin on Nov 25, 2006 4:39 AM EST   0 recs

I'd still like to see him make a ....
...run at Todd Walker who can probably be had on the cheap. I'd like to see the lefty bat 2nd in front of AP. Plus there'd be $$$ left over to use towards a pitcher. OTOH, I'm also content to have Belly back.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Nov 25, 2006 11:33 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

seems like he might not be on the radar right now
after that crappy first half in Chicago.  Maybe we could snag him for just a year or two and keep the # of years down.  Adam Kennedy is not someone I want to see on the team.  We already have his equivalent at SS and as much as I love Eck, it would be nice to get a little pop out of 2b.

OPS+
2004 - 105
2005 - 115
2006 - 93 (88 in Chicago, 108 in second half in San Diego)

I'd rather see Duncan in the two hole if he can maintain his .360 OBP and bat Walker 6th or so but Walker could also fill in that slot as well.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Nov 25, 2006 11:59 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Orioles
Anyone else hear walker has been signed by the O's?  I agree, if he could be had for cheap he would definitely be a good 2B against RHP.  So who plays against LHP? Miles?

by Lawless on Nov 25, 2006 4:38 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Woody on the Astros
makes the bile rise in my throat.  sigh.

by madding on Nov 25, 2006 5:20 AM EST   0 recs

Since...
we're jumping all over the Stros...

Why not point out that Pence has a bit of a problem with the sauce?

by guayzimi on Nov 25, 2006 5:44 AM EST   0 recs

if 1 dui is enough
to make the Astros give up on him, then someone better jump on him quick.

by erik on Nov 25, 2006 10:24 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Gotta admit
its a sign of immaturity.

by Zubin on Nov 25, 2006 3:08 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

didn't jim bowden get arrested
for a dui this year? he still has his job. Sure, it's a sign of immaturity, but a easily forgivable offense IMO.

by erik on Nov 25, 2006 4:57 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Oh sure...
if you can hit, you can be forgiven for just about anything. However, if you're handicapping the chances of a prospect making it to the Bigs, a DUI incident lengthens those odds. Take a prospective draftee that projects to be a top 5 pick, hang a DUI on him, and he'll go 12th or 15th or something. Teams play the odds.

Chances are this is a perfectly normal kid who made a mistake, got caught, and will move on without a hitch. But what did we say in the 2000 NLDS when that first pitch from Ankiel went to the backstop? Ah, it got away from him... ball one...

by guayzimi on Nov 25, 2006 6:05 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Rick Ankiel
will forever live in cardinal infamy.
Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Nov 25, 2006 6:12 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I'd say it also depends on the specifics
about the dui.  Did he have a couple of beers hanging with friends and blow a .10?  Or was he smashed driving home from the nudie bar and blew a 0.25?

by Zubin on Nov 27, 2006 3:56 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

I think you're dead on about Lee
and I forgot about him blocking Hunter Pence.  I haven't looked at the #'s but it appears as though Lee will replace Aubrey Huff in Houston's lineup.  It won't add much to OPS or WARP1 but it adds more than $11 million in salary.  Even if Pettitte is back, Lee's salary will replace Roger Clemens.  Then they fill Clemens' spot in the rotation w/ some replacement level pitcher like Williams/whoever takes the other 10-15 starts during Williams' injuries and they've gone backward, not forward.

This doesn't even take into account the fact that he's 30, his defense is horrendous and his weight is getting there.  In 2-3 years he'll need to be a DH (or maybe a 1B, but Berkman's at 1B) and the Astros will be looking to unload him.  Of course, this won't be an easy contract to unload either.  Who's gonna pay $17 million and players for a DH?  It'll be a salary dump.  They just got one albatross contract (Bagwell) off the books and replaced it with another.

by houstoncardinal on Nov 25, 2006 11:41 AM EST   0 recs

interesting read
Marginal $/Marginal Win: 1999 - 2006 at Bucco blog "Look at the Cards and Oakland -- an average of $1.2m marginal cost per marginal win and an incredible average of 44 marginal wins. Wow. Now THAT is front office efficiency in action. " http://buccoblog.mlblogs.com/my_weblog/2006/11/marginal_margin.html The Cubs have around 2x's the marginal cost/marginal win and trail only the Yanks and O's for in that category.

by erik on Nov 25, 2006 1:29 PM EST   0 recs

Clemens
I think the Clemens salary was prorated down to $12m.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/houston-astros.html

by socalcardsfan on Nov 25, 2006 2:59 PM EST   0 recs

lee's signing and defense...
while horrible, will be somewhat hidden by his play in the juicebox.  Left field is the perfect place to hide him, especially w/a speedy willy Tavares in center.  I very glad we didn't spend that kind of money on him, and quite glad that Houston did (kind of like sammy sosa all over again...i still wish he were in RF in Chitown!).

But, w/respect to his poor defense, I think it will be mitigated somewhat due to park factors 81 games this season.

Brian

by HoosierCardFan on Nov 25, 2006 3:21 PM EST   0 recs

has the green monster
helped Manny Ramirez's defense? he continually ranks at the bottom of many defensive metrics. i really don't think lee's defensive liabilities will be mitigated by the crawford boxes

by erik on Nov 25, 2006 4:59 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

going to the other extreme to make the point....
but if he were fielding at Petco Park  you don't think he'd be considerably more exposed?  Boston's perfect for Ramirez, the same way it is for Lee (and possibly Duncan unless he can get some help out there).

by HoosierCardFan on Nov 26, 2006 1:17 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Brewer's trade
The Diamondbacks have reportedly acquired Doug Davis, Dana Eveland and David Krynzel from the Brewers for Johnny Estrada, Claudio Vargas and Greg Aquino.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061125&content_id=1745907&vkey=news_mlb &fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Not sure why the Brewers would give up Davis AND Eveland who projects well for a slight upgrade at catcher, a 5th starter and a journeyman reliever. Seems like a win for the Diamondbacks even if Davis doesn't bounce back from last year.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Nov 25, 2006 3:26 PM EST   0 recs

Bernie posted Duncan's Bill James projection
"In his projections for the 2007 season (which are just out), Bill James forecasts these numbers for Duncan: 33 homers, 90 RBIs, .273 BA, .351 OBP, .511 SLG."

I think that would be great production from left field but I'd rather see it further down in the order than the two slot.

Maybe:
Eckstein
Todd Walker
Pujols
Duncan
Rolen
Edmonds
Encarnacion
Molina
Pitcher

Jimmy's OBP appears underutilized by this lineup but he's been so vocal in the past about not liking to bat in the 2 hole.  Meh, I dunno, I would love to see 30+ HRs from Duncan for league minimum.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Nov 26, 2006 1:06 AM EST   0 recs

Interesting question
Do LaRussa, et al look at things like PECOTA and Bill James projections? Do they understand or care about VORP?

How do they go about deciding who to acquire and who to trade?

by Red in Chicago on Nov 26, 2006 1:58 PM EST   0 recs

Here's to the Astros
$100 million for Carlos Lee. For some reason, I'm not anxious at all.
I hope Kennedy signs with Toronto, I like him but he's not what we need. Walker would be good if only because we wouldn't have to face him anymore. I think Belly is the best free agent out there now, but not at the price he'll demand. We should just be patient and go with Miles if we are looking at $4-5 million a year for an average player. He's nearly as good as Kennedy, anyway.
A walk is a waste of three pitches-Bob Gibson

by orlando card on Nov 26, 2006 2:31 PM EST   0 recs

I like Kennedy
My only concern is that we had so many problems vs. lefties last year and Kennedy's a left-handed hitter w/ a history of problems vs. left-handed pitchers.  He could hit 2nd, 7th, or 8th and play pretty good defense but he doesn't help us at all vs. lefties.

by houstoncardinal on Nov 26, 2006 4:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Kennedy
I would rather see the Birds just drop a few more million and grab Durham for two years instead of Kennedy or Belliard for four -- I understand the 72 reasons why that is VERY unlikely, thanks.

But as far as Kennedy not being able hit lefties, Miles actually splits better as a right-handed batter. So I guess you could have a possible platoon situation at 2B. sigh

Miles vs. LHP  - .291 / .738
(vs. RHP - .256 / .654)

Kennedy vs. RHP - .291 / .759
(vs. LHP - .193 / .533)

At least Durham would provide some pop, and the Ganster of Glove would swing his dreads off. I don't know, I am not excited about 2B or Adam Kennedy.

by plh903 on Nov 26, 2006 5:48 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

On 2nd base
Just re-sign Belly to a 2/3 year deal worth 2-3 million a year, and if he won't take that, then go for Lorretta, and if we lose out on him, just keep Miles.  

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Nov 26, 2006 5:59 PM EST   0 recs

I don't like
I don't like any of 2b Options. I think the best one though is Mark LoRetta for a 1 year deal. All these players are going to the shitter in 2 years except Kennedy. Kennedy just isn't any good though.

by DimitroffVodka on Nov 26, 2006 6:26 PM EST   0 recs

Pettite
With the Astros paying so much money to Carlos Lee, that could possibly put Pettite on the open market.  With the Cardinals having not made a big move yet and still not spending the money we saved last year by not acquiring A.J. Burnett, why is it out of the question that we make an offer to Andy Pettite.  

Carpenter
Pettite
Reyes
??(Wolf, Lilly)
??(Mulder, Wainwright)

"And that's a winner. A World Series winner for the Cardinals."

by Bird Watcher on Nov 26, 2006 9:33 PM EST   0 recs

carlos lee, pitchers
well there dude

i think that comment by mgl got a whole lot of play - i put it on MY carlos entries too.

i was REAL upset he got signed for so long. all the other stros fans are upset that i am calling him carlos lard and arguing that he won't last.

he is a terrible fielder - you've seen him just as much as me - and LF is very hard to play in the Box - you best believe that lardbutt won't make it near the corner where the LF bullpen is.

he's around chris duncan quality. seriously.

tlr is NOT stupid and he gonna tell all the rightys to pull the ball.

and yall dead right about hunter pence. luke scott can't play right neither, so i would guess they gonna be traded for something. they fer SHER won't fetch no #2 starter and that is what we need. i mean, i luuuvvv woody and he is almost crying he so happy to be playing for the stros BUT the boy don't really last longern 80 pitches and he fragile.

  • now i think that ray durham is the best available 2B, but yall better keep miles around...
  • pettitte and clemens
it's like this - they are probably not coming back, but IF they are you best believe unca drayton gonna come up with the $$$ - he SAID he's cutting payroll, but i know how things work. the $$$ will somehow appear.

- pitchers: i think meche is terrible - good luck. but if duncan can make weaver decent, hey, dude is a miracle worker. i'd sign lilly.

i heard that mulder definitely isn't coming back to st louis, but of course thats probably just rumors.

- i was REAL surprised the brewers gave up so fast on dana eveland - i mean the guy is young - like, what 22, and they'd rather have claudio freaking vargas??? estrada is a singles hitter who won't walk, gidp a lot and wear out his welcome every where he goes. will be interesting to see how he deals with being a backup again when he thinks he should start.

by lisa gray on Nov 26, 2006 11:00 PM EST   0 recs

Baltimore just signed
Danys Baez to a 3 year contract worth $5-6 million per year.  Could anyone imagine giving this kind of $$$$ to a former closer to set up?  They're in need of a 1B b/c all the hitters are gone once Drew signs.  Is there any reason (besides that Baltimore can never get its act together on anything) we couldn't trade Duncan to Baltimore for Chris Ray and put Wainwright in the rotation?  Maybe they could get more for him but I can't see them giving Baez 5-6 million to set up Ray and Duncan could hit 40 HR's in Camden Yards.

by houstoncardinal on Nov 26, 2006 11:47 PM EST   0 recs

I like Chris Ray
and he'd be under our control at minimal cost for a few years.  I think that would be a nice trade and one that the Orioles should at least consider (but who knows what Angelos/Flannagan are thinking - that front office isn't very impressive).
Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Nov 27, 2006 12:03 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Chris Ray
I thought the same thing...

But realistically, with the closer role being so overvalued, and Izzy inevitably returning at some point, I would rather just hang on to Duncan and slide Wainwright into the rotation anyway.

We could just have Josh the Batboy close until Izzy gets back.

I jest.

But, I would rather not trade Duncan's production for 2 month's worth of Saves.

How much service time does Ray have? If we were to control him for 4 years or so, it might be very well worth it.

Of course, I would be happy for Duncan hitting 40 HRs in Baltimore just like I am so happy for Dan Haren. It would make me want to kick puppies.

by plh903 on Nov 27, 2006 12:26 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Ray has 1.5 years service time
or something to that effect.  He came up around mid-June in 2005.
Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Nov 27, 2006 1:25 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Carpenter
I remember reading a quote from him a while back saying he was happy with his contract, and that he'd rather be the most underpaid player than the most overpaid.

by john vb on Nov 27, 2006 5:24 PM EST   0 recs

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