Viva El Birdos: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

Silly thing I heard

I was listening to the local (OK) radio sports show today and I heard an interesting thing and wanted your take on it. They said that A-Rod was probably going to be on the trade-block but who could take him. They listed a whole bunch of teams that could afford him, and the Cardinals were mentioned. They said the Yankees needed pitching, and the name they tossed out there was Adam Wainwright. So I wondered if that really was feasible. Would you give up Adam for A-rod? Furthermore this depletes our bargaining chips in going after a big name pitcher. Just curious if you would try to go after him.

0 recs  |  Comment 42 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

No chance.
Bengie Molina for 2007 Cardinals Catcher!

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 9, 2006 7:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Reyes I would though.
Bengie Molina for 2007 Cardinals Catcher!

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 9, 2006 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, No, NO
Besides the fact that I love Adam, there's no way, EVER, I would give up one of my favorite players in the game for one of my least favorites. Even hurt, Rolen is far, far better defensively than A-Rod, and I've never liked Rodriguez. I don't deny his talent, but I definitely don't think he's the team-saver and best-player-in-the-AL that some have made him out to be. (That would be Travis Hafner, thank you). And since Izzy's getting old and rickety and assuming that we can't necessarily count on him for next year, where does that leave our bullpen? Ty Johnson has the raw stuff, but he definitely isn't there performance-wise.

To summarize: No.

I have a serious, serious Adam Wainwright addiction. Is there a 12-step group for loving 6'7" rookie relievers to death?

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Oct 9, 2006 8:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Okay it gets deeper
You dump Eckstein and move A-rod to short. So the infeild would be pujols, 2b determined, a-rod, and rolen. (Wow what an infeild, but this obviously is all for fun.)
We are the Cardinals, the Mighty Mighty Cardinals!

by OKCardsfan on Oct 9, 2006 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A-Rod is not a natural 3B
Put him at SS (noone gives him credit for playing out of position for a defensively subpar Jeter, which I find odd), and put Eck at 2B.  If I was Walt, and I was offered Wainwright for A-Rod and cash, I would have to take that deal--The a-Rod-Pujols 1-2 punch would just be too absolutely insane.

I don't think it'll happen, though.  I would think that a deal would have to involve Izzy.  I would completely take the Yanks up on a package of Izzy and Reyes for A-Rod.  That makes sense for both teams--the Yankees are desperate for starters, and the Cardinals need stable offense behind Pujols.

by Valatan on Oct 9, 2006 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's true
But however much he may mash in the regular season (and I'd have to look in to the stats on that) A-Rod's well-chronicled postseason flops make me leery. He may have had success in the past in the postseason, but that is a very distant past by now. He was there when the Yanks were rolling all over the Red Sox in 2004, but hasn't driven in a run in postseason play since then and disappeared with the rest of them during their epic collapse. Not necessarily pinning all the blame on him, but it wasn't as if he was out there single-handedly resuscitating the team the way we've seen, say, Pujols do.

I honestly think that when he's put in a high-profile, high-pressure situation, A-Rod will just freeze. He thinks too much about being the hero and ends up grounding out weakly or watching a called third strike. The Yankees rolled to their division title, but truly great players (such as, again, El Hombre) will be the ones who don't disappear when everyone else does. A-Rod did disappear, turning in another miserable series (1-for-14 I believe it was this time). If he was a superstar, he'd be the guy that stood out. He'd buck the trend.

He may pay big money in the regular season (almost as much as baseball is coughing into his ridiculous contract) but if he's not going to step it up come October, we're left where we already are, i.e. with Pujols as our real offensive terror.

And aside from that, I just don't like the guy on a personal level. I can't blame him for his contract - if I was offered $252 million to do something that I loved, you can bet that I and everyone else would snap it up. But he's done nothing to justify that money - there are quite a few players in the AL who are better than he is, and he doesn't come close to touching Pujols. I can't discount his accomplishments, but I truly question if they would ever mean something in a late-game, high-profile, October do-or-die game.

A-Rod's always struck me as being too polished, too phony, and too egoistic to really, truly put aside what he wants and contribute to the good of the team. And no, I don't count a move to third base as being selfless. A-Rod wanted out of Texas badly (and who can blame him; Hicks is an idiot) and I think he'd have volunteered to pitch if it got him to New York, where he was thinking about winning a ring and some glory for himself. He definitely didn't want to go there just out of a totally altruistic desire to help the Yankees organization. Not that I can slam him for wanting out of Arlington. But it was, at heart, something for him. To make him look better. Pad his credentials, if you were.

I also think that he's a streaky hitter. He can get insanely hot for two weeks or a month, completely disappear, and then rev back up again to keep his stats at the level they are. And somebody, I think it was Bichette, said that stats are like a bikini - they show you a lot, but not everything.

And yes, I have seen A-Rod hit quite a few homers when the Yankees were already up or down too far for it to make much of a difference. I watch baseball all the time, every team.

And on top of that, I adore Adam, as my signature will probably tell you. He's humble, personable, low-key, genuine, and really, really talented. I want him in our bullpen. I want him to contribute to this Cardinals club, whether as reliever or starter remains to be seen. If he was given up for A-Rod - who's good but not out-of-this-world and subject to his own problems - this Redbird fan's heart would absolutely break.

I don't like the Yanks. I don't want Adam there. And I don't want to be the recipient of their problem player. I just say no.

I just wouldn't do it. Not that that even matters, as all is this is just (hopefully) idle speculation to liven up an always-churning Yankees hot stove while they continue their quest to buy a world championship every year. Perversely, this is exactly the direction they should take - dump their underachieving, aging prima donnas and build a nucleus around some young talent - but I'll be damned if I'll let them do it at our expense.

Wow. Look at that miniature novel. I think I need to shut up now.

I have a serious, serious Adam Wainwright addiction. Is there a 12-step group for loving 6'7" rookie relievers to death?

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Oct 9, 2006 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

barry bonds
barry bonds was a noted post season failure...until he whacked 8 homers in 2002.  scott brosius--noted post season hero and 1998 world series mvp--has a .245 ba and .278 obp in the post season.  build a team of october superstars if you want.  you wont make it to october with them.  given enough at bats, players will perform in the post season at their regular season norms.  a-rod will hit post season home runs again and your carlos beltrans will become human once again.

by dmb60614 on Oct 10, 2006 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

man
i always though it was more likely the yanks would end up with the pujols/a-rod one two. that would be insane. i don't think they'd be giving a-rod and cash for just adam though.

by brock on Oct 12, 2006 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

absolutely no freaking way!!!
 where in the world did ya hear that???

by CCERUTTI on Oct 18, 2006 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep--
Depends on the deal, but Wainer straight up (and some contract eating) or Iz and Reyes--yep, I'd do it too. I'm no huge fan of ARod, but that 1-2 punch would definately make my mouth water. Won't happen, though, so no use getting all worked up.

by rockin redbird on Oct 9, 2006 10:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Kinda fun though
Just to speculate. I personally think we go after another ace pitcher but if this type of deal were to come across a table, I'd consider it. I'd try to package Iz, Looper, and Reyes for him. They already have Rivera though so Iz we could package as a set-up man. Who knows. Wasn't Bobby Bonilla the highest paid player at one time? Didn't he end up with the Cards? Just a thought...
We are the Cardinals, the Mighty Mighty Cardinals!

by OKCardsfan on Oct 9, 2006 10:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Izzy, Looper, and Reyes?
That package, while possibly attractive to the pitching-starved Yanks, sounds like we're just swapping castoffs. A-Rod may be out of favor in the Big Apple, but Cashman, if he does trade him, is going to milk every ounce of value he can get for him.

I hope A-Rod doesn't end up on the Angels. Then again, as an A's fan, it would make me like them even less than I already do.

I do realize that this is just speculation while we bored baseball addicts wait for the Championship Series to start. ;)

I have a serious, serious Adam Wainwright addiction. Is there a 12-step group for loving 6'7" rookie relievers to death?

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Oct 9, 2006 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely
Reyes is not a cast-off. He's a rook with a potentially high ceiling. Looper is a good bullpenner. Your addiction of Adam could continue because he would be our closer if we dumped Iz. Those 3 are somewhat replaceable. (It would be hard to find 4 starters!) But desperate times call for desperate measures (Yankees I mean) and if there is pressure to get rid of him, he will go.
We are the Cardinals, the Mighty Mighty Cardinals!

by OKCardsfan on Oct 9, 2006 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I won't put anything past Steinbrenner
He's got to be going apoplectic after yet another humiliating playoff exit, and I don't think that firing Torre is the solution to his problems. Torre can only do his best with what Georgie's cash puts on the field for him, and if 25 guys won't play as a team, even installing chair-thrower Piniella in the position can't change that.

I can see the Yanks snapping up Reyes, but can't see them being so enthusiastic about Looper and the Izz. They already have Farnsworth, Dotel, Myers, and similar types, and will be aggressively courting starters. So we'd have to give them something else - for A-Rod, the bidding would probably start at Reyes and another starter-type.

I have a serious, serious Adam Wainwright addiction. Is there a 12-step group for loving 6'7" rookie relievers to death?

by Scarlet the Cardinal on Oct 9, 2006 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's not a very attractive package if
I'm the Yankees.  I don't think there's a team out there that takes a possibly broken closer, a mediocre ex-closer and a (thus far) inconsistant rookie.
Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Oct 9, 2006 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

its going to take a
Ton to get A-rod, something the cards won't offer.

I'd love a rolen / wainwright for a-rod though.

fun to think about, but never going to happen.    

by PGeorge on Oct 9, 2006 11:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this is all
foolish talk - it'd be a deal we'd all regret six years from now when A-Rod is an old has-been and Wainwright is closing out the world series eight years in a row.

How many championships would A-Rod bring us? The same number he's brought the Yankees. Zero.

This team needs a dynamite starting pitcher and a healthy Scott Rolen.

by lawman3842 on Oct 10, 2006 12:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i thought
wainwright is gonna start next year. is that now changed cause he's closed a few games out?

by brock on Oct 12, 2006 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As if...
As if Walt would even think about adding A-Rod's salary to the payroll!

The only thing A-Rod does is cause disharmony with his disproportionate salary. I'd pass.

Besides, where are you going to put him in the order? Behind El Hombre? Don't think A-Rod would be too pleased with the drop in RBIs that will give him ;)

by Neuronix on Oct 10, 2006 6:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The only thing
"The only thing A-Rod does is cause disharmony with his disproportionate salary. I'd pass."

And hit 50 HR while playing a gold glove shortstop.  We have the word of steroid user Jason Giambi on the disharmony issue.

As far as where to put him in the order, I think he'd work well in the 2 hole with his speed.

by Valatan on Oct 10, 2006 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

people make to much of this clubhouse cancer thing
its as much a product of the other players as ARod if it even exists at all.  see jim edmonds
Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Oct 10, 2006 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention
that the worst that I've heard is that "he wants to be liked"  That's hardly getting you into the Albert Belle memorial hall of fame for jerks.

by Valatan on Oct 10, 2006 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
But in NYC that means "he's a sucker" and an easy target.  That's much worse than being a jerk.
You either get all the glory or all the... goat hair. -mike shannon

by SleepyCA on Oct 12, 2006 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NO WAY
Reyes for A-Rod maybe. I feel that Reyes thinks he might have gotten a raw deal in the way he was handled this year so I would see him wanting to be traded. Adam and Rolen.....HELL NO. Rolen will recover and be tones better then A-Rod ever thought of being at 3rd. Move Eck to 2nd and wow what a infield. Eck is one of the best short stops in the NL and I believe could do the same with the shorter throw from 2nd.

Think of the batting order.
Eck
Duncan
Pujols
Rolen
A-Rod
Edmonds (Maybe)
Enc
Molina
Pitcher
I could live with that

Oh Yeah. The Rangers are still paying a fair chunk of A-Rods contract and I would believe that the Yanks would do the same to get rid of him, Maybe.

Play hard, play to win, but make it fun!

by Edmonds is baseball on Oct 10, 2006 9:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

not only no
but HELL NO.

As much fun as it would be to have an infield of Pujols, Eckstein, Rodriguez, and Rolen (bat ARod in front of Pujols!! holy shit!!), there are several very good reasons not to take him.

  1. Head case. These guys seldom, if ever, are able to concentrate when they're needed most.
  2. Dollars. Even with TX and NY paying parts of his contract, he'd eat up payroll. He'd make it tougher, if not impossible, for the Cards to look for starting pitching.
  3. Expense. Wainwright? No. Reyes? No. If those two get traded at all (which strikes me as very unlikely) they will be traded for an established starter. Hopefully a lefty. Otherwise the Cards really don't have much to offer the Yanks.

by nota bene on Oct 10, 2006 2:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah
if they are willing to spend 12-14 million dollars on a single player this offseason, I'd much rather it be a pitcher like Schmidt or possibly Zito.
Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Oct 10, 2006 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would only work
if the Yankees eat most of A-Rod's salary.  No way this club diss'es Apu by paying A-Rod more money.

And if you could get A-Rod for Reyes (probably even Wainer) plus lots of cash it would be a great deal.  You'd move eck to 2nd and it would give you one of the best defenses and the best IF production in basbeall.  Alternatively, you probably could but A-Rod in the outfeild.

Imagine:
Eck
Dunc
APu
A-Rod
Rolen
JEd?
Jaun'cion
Catcher
Pitcher.

The '06 Cardinals- The New '96 Cardinals? (Sorry, but I have to be real about our chances)

by Zubin on Oct 10, 2006 3:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

the yankees are not goint to eat this salary
this isn't a Jim Thome "we have a viable replacement for an overpriced hobbled 1b" type trade.  This is ARod can't seem to handle NY for whatever reason.  At most they eat 1-2 million a year and still get a grade A prospect or top notch player in return.
Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Oct 10, 2006 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ARod's salary
Pujols is making $16 mil. ARod is making $25 mil, $16 of which comes from the Yankees.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 12, 2006 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get the proposed deals
EVERYONE knows we have pitching problems.    Pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching.  We've talked about it all year.

So give up 1 or 2 valuable, CHEAP young pitchers to add to our offense?  And add salary that guarantees we can't add pitching?  That makes zero sense.  

by sdrone on Oct 10, 2006 4:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to throw out
Edgar Renteria. He couldn't adjust to the Media Sharks and did not do well in Boston. After moving to Atlanta, he came back to Cardinal form. I'm just suggesting that possibly A-rod could find his former-self if he came to the Cards. The things that hold it up is his contract and who to give. But really, who does have anything to give? What other team has the $ or the talent (that they want to give up) to get him? If we could resign Soup, Weaver, keep Carp, Reyes or Wainer, find a decent SP, and plug bullpen holes with Minor Leaguers, then I definately would consider it.
We are the Cardinals, the Mighty Mighty Cardinals!

by OKCardsfan on Oct 10, 2006 4:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think a trade is going to happen
but this discussion is reminding me a lot of the chatter during the Rolen trade.  Eveyone then was saying that we needed pitching, and that giving up Polanco and Bud Smith was insane, and that Rolen was constantly injured and was a major morale problem in Philadelphia, and would never amount to his potential.

But the thing is, Rolen was a singular talent that completely alters the character of a lineup, and so is Alex Rodriguez.  If you can get a player that good at the cost of giving up players that will never win a Cy young for you, you do it.  Perhaps the financials might not work out, and then you pass.  But if you can get A-Rod at $10-12 M a year, you have to pull the trigger on the deal, particularly if you have the chance of unloading Izzy's contract and moving Wainwright to the closers' spot in the meantime.

by Valatan on Oct 10, 2006 6:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wainwright for ARod, straight up?
You guys have -all- got to be kidding! How do you NOT make that deal?

I like Wainright, I really do, and even if he fails as a starter, he has the potential to be a Hoffman level closer for years to come.

BUT, look at ARod's numbers in his 'off year'. Put those numbers, RIGHT now, at the #2 or #4 hole in the Cards lineup. What do you see? An -awesome- 1-2 punch that will strike fear in the heart of any NL pitcher.

I think the media hype is -way- overblown, and perhaps that would be lessened somewhat in St. Louis. And remember: the Yankees are not paying ARod $25 mil a year. They're paying him $16 Mil.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 12, 2006 9:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

plus
it's not like wainwright's a sure thing. he's done a fine job. but anybody remember a fella name prior? there was a time when i hated that kid because i thought he was one of the best pitchers i'd ever seen. now, i wouldn't even want the guy.

by brock on Oct 12, 2006 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

my point is
i'd make the trade in a second. get sheffield as well, while we're at it.

by brock on Oct 12, 2006 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sheffield
He's a free agent. They won't take his option.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 12, 2006 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Further
I don't know -why in the world- you guys think any team in the majors is going to take Izzy and his contract. Are you just being homers? Cause, uh, do you think the Cards would trade for Izzy in the same circumstance?

I, for one, do -not- see us getting ARod for something as cheap as Wainright. I think he finishes his contract in NY.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 12, 2006 9:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Yankees are the only team that I would see
doing it.  And I would only see it as a throw in on a trade involving other players for the purpose of evening out salary.

by Valatan on Oct 12, 2006 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Possibly
But if I'm the Yankees, and trade ARod to the Cards, I want Reyes+Wainwright+Duncan (they need a 1B). Cashman has publicly stated (we'll see ;)) that he wants to lower payroll.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 12, 2006 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if i'm the yankees
i might consider reyes or wainwright and duncan plus a player to be named, etc.

by brock on Oct 12, 2006 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
that's about the package I'd probably offer.  I could see Reyes being very attractive to them.  We'd need to do something to even out the salary on that deal, though.

by Valatan on Oct 12, 2006 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

izzy's done.
put him in the booth with al and dan.

by brock on Oct 12, 2006 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.
Start posting about the Cardinals »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Stl_ia_card_45_-_dark_small
Jeff Pearlman Thinks Of Hair Clumps When He Thinks Of The Thief McGwire
Black-spider-monkey_small
Losing my religion (w/ baseball)

Recent FanPosts

Flanders_small
Yadi2first
Small
40 Man Question..
Cathybachebay1_small
The current Busine$$ of Baseball...how long can it last?
Avatar_small
VEB CheBird T-Shirt for Sale - Red or Powder Blue, CLEARANCE
Stl_ia_card_45_-_dark_small
October Lore: One In A Million
St-louis-cardinals-script_small
A Team of Free Agents
St-louis-cardinals_small
Report: LaRussa Will Return
Small
Skip's Lament: The Curse of Too Many Decent Players

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Jack_benny_small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bender1_small azruavatar

Adam1_small chuckb

Trigun_001_small the red baron