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NLCS Game 6 overflow + postgame

Birdos_avatar_tiny by lboros on in News Comment 454 comments

cardinals not getting good wood on the ball at all . . . . how bad does that fizzle in the 1st inning look now?

they still have 6 outs, and 1 more trip through the heart of the order. mets 2-0, bottom 7th. . .

Update [2006-10-18 23:46:16 by lboros]: 4-2 new york; it comes down to game 7. not much to cheer about until the 9th, when the cardinals finally got untracked; might bode well for tomorrow. let's hope so.

a few people in the game thread somehow got the idea that the pitchout called in the 7th inning cost the cardinals the game; interesting theory. when a manager calls a pitchout, and the runner is going, and he's out by 5 steps, that's generally a good call by the manager. and it's what should have happened --- except molina threw the ball into centerfield. nothing at all wrong with the call --- perfect anticipation by la russa. the fault lay with the execution . . . .

it's further suggested that the focus on the baserunner led directly to the subsequent scratch single by reyes --- again, not very logical. looper made a good pitch and got reyes to hit a groundball, which didn't even get out of the infield and didn't drive in a run.

but hey, if it makes you feel better to believe that the pitchout caused reyes' infield hit and the subsequent two-run single by lo duca, by all means be my guest . . . .

all in all, a discouraging game --- and even more discouraging game thread, one of the worst ever on this board. we can't control how the team plays tomorrow; we can control the degree of maturity and perspective and balance we exhibit on this forum.

those qualities were not in great supply this evening.

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Blooper coming in...
for the 7th.  Not a comforting thought.
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 18, 2006 10:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm....something sounds fimiliar
Eckstein singles
#2 hitter walks
Pujols HRs

We win game.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Game 7 Sim
DodgerSims is giving the Cardinals a pythagorean win expectancy of .556 for game 7.    vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on Oct 19, 2006 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And on more trip
through the heart of the Birds' order, too.  Give me Albert or give me Game 7!

by glennrwordman on Oct 18, 2006 10:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

or give me death!
i don't think i can go through this again. my emotions can't take it
"Go Crazy, Folks! Go Crazy!"

by erik on Oct 18, 2006 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know Tags had the go ahead HR the other night
but..... when is the last time we were down 2 runs in the 8th or deeper and came back?..... hmmm

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 10:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Pujols against the Padres
to end the 7 game losing streak, no?
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's 1 out Looper
Now get the blackhole Chavez here.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

problem is
if anyone gets on base, you know they will just end up IBB'ing Pujols, so it will be left in the hands of Edmonds (cringe)

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Got to make sure
No more Met runs.

by mdhoffm2 on Oct 18, 2006 10:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well

I dunno what to say...

When you produce 3 hits and no runs against John Maine in a clinching game 6 of the NLCS with your ace on the mound, its gut check time.

Does anyone know what Rolen has done in the post season since he hit the dinger off Clemens?  I know he went hitless in the WS vs Boston, after that I can't recall much of anything.

Although it ain't over yet.

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 18, 2006 10:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

...and in other news
the sun rose in the East this morning.

Looper is as popular in New York as Sherman is in Georgia...

by glennrwordman on Oct 18, 2006 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looper's in
TLR speak for "We ain't winning this one."

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

son
get that doubt and unbelief oughta here. there are still 6 outs to get and some bats ready to come through, that have been comin' through
"Go Crazy, Folks! Go Crazy!"

by erik on Oct 18, 2006 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

why not. . .
we haven't done very well getting any home.
"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Oct 18, 2006 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heilman
For those that may have watched some Mets ball.... is he any good as a setup man?....I thought I remember him and Randolph scuffling earlier in the season?

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 10:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Heilman
When he's on, he's very, very nasty.  93-95 with movement, plus change.  wants to start, has accepted being an 8th inning guy.  Tough.

by glennrwordman on Oct 18, 2006 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looper is
doing well so far. I still remember that sunday night game against Houston where he worked out quite a few jams. It was against Houston, but still . .

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Lopper will be a "W" Vulture
Tonight like he was during the regular season.

by Podlol on Oct 18, 2006 10:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Do they go with Wagner in the 8th?
It would make sense to me.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i feel much
better against Wagner than I do against Heilman

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huge Game -
and Carpenter is outpitched by John $#@#$# Maine. Unbelievable.

I guess Met fans were saying the same thing last night about Glavine.

I need a new hobby.

by Urban Pawnee on Oct 18, 2006 10:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And here comes Jose again
Geez oh man.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Strike him out here Looper
Curveball DOWN!!!!!!!
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Did I say DOWN
DOWN
DOWN
DOWN
DOWN
DOWN
DOWN
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We don't like Heilman
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/bvsp?playerId=5410

4 for 40 as a team with 19 strikeouts...almost reminds me of another very good reliever in another LCS...I hope Albert remembers too.

by mdhoffm2 on Oct 18, 2006 10:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

A ball hit to the right side is going to score a
run with Pujols having to stand ON the bag.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey guys
what's everyone's thoughts about Game 6? Kinda reminds me of a Game 6 that happened 364 days ago...

by ryanisforever on Oct 18, 2006 10:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Throwing over
to first with 2 outs and 2 strikes on the batter pisses me off. Takes the focus off the hitter.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

FUCK
Pardon my language, but DAMNIT

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

oh yomo
that is not what we needed right now

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Micheal Tucker is the 2006 version
of the 2004 version of Dave Roberts.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's been that kind of night
Right call, uncharacteristic bad throw by Yadi...
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Oct 18, 2006 10:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Horrible, horrible throw
Second time tonight he's made a bad throw.

by ryanisforever on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WHY?!?!?!?!?
A PITCHOUT WITH 2 OUTS AND 2 STRIKES???? WHY????!?!??!!!??

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

excellent play by Eck
that would have been the kiss of death right there if it snuck through

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ah well...
If you had told me we'd make it to game 7 of the NLCS this year, i'd of called you a liar , I suppose I shouldn't be disappointed. These damn Birds got me greedy though, only to let me down.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

BECAUSE IT FUCKING WORKED
The throw wasn't right, however.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

But it's unnecessary!
It makes no baseball sense! He had the hitter 1-2! Then threw over TWICE! Focus on the friggin hitter and get in the dadgum dugout!

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice play
by Eck, but I don't think Tucker scores there.  Speez was about forty feet behind Eck...

by glennrwordman on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah
taking carp out seems like it was a good idea.

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

how many times do see David Eckstein
make a great play on defense
then come up and lead off with a 2-run home run!

by mdhoffm2 on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, since he is leading off next inning
THAT would be something to see.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that saved a run
even though i'd rather it have been an out
Redbirds Fun
The Kentucky Democrat

by cardsfan84 on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah,
but we have soupie vs. a short rest/old man lefty coming up this time.

by toris34 on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Damit
just get the thrid out. Who cares about Tucker I don't and neither should the Cards. Stop waisting time on something that doesn't matter.

by JMedwick on Oct 18, 2006 10:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Does Belly
ever keep his tongue in his mouth?

by glennrwordman on Oct 18, 2006 10:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Looper
is just awful when the pressure is on. Or does it just seem that way?

by ryanisforever on Oct 18, 2006 10:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

it's molina's fault
halfway decent throw on the pitchout, inning over

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looper
game set and match right there

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And now...
Because the Cards were sooooo concerned with Tucker at first, they have gotten looper all out of sorts... what a dumb move.

DAMN>>>JUST IGNOR TUCKER AND REYES AND GET THE FREAKING OUT>>>>

by JMedwick on Oct 18, 2006 10:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

GAME OVER

by siucardsfan on Oct 18, 2006 10:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

SHIT!!!
I'm soooo happy we tokk carp out of the game for a shitty pop-up.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Oct 18, 2006 10:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That
is on La Russa. A fricking pitchout on a 2-2 count with 2 outs.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand why Tony thinks Looper
can nut up and get it done after struggling...

That pitching change should have come 1 batter sooner.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well, we know LaRussa
made the right decision making Wainwright the closer and Looper the mop up man.

by mdhoffm2 on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

great idea TRL
remove our best pitcher when he was still under 80 pitches and set down the last inning 1-2-3.

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to bed
I stayed up to midnight to watch a win. I'll try to stay up for Pujols' at bat, but I'm not up to this.

I have to say, regardless of how tomorrow goes, this postseason is much more fun than 2004 or 2005.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

F U LOOPER!!!
And FU TLR FOR PULLING CARP.

Man, he sucks.  I can't believe how bad we overpaid him.

What a loser

by armitagecard on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that's a banning offense
you're gone, armitage. we don't tell players, the manager, other posters, anyone to "F U" at this site.

that sort of thing is for the elementary school playground.

this site will just have to struggle along without your valuable insights . . . .  

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

too little too late
TLR, why waste the pen now?

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This has been one of their fundamentally
worst innings in awhile. Bad play by Spiezio, awful throw by Molina and Braden Looper is another guy who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a mound in the playoffs.

by ryanisforever on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well,
we don't have to worry about Tucker and Reyes now!
"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Does any one know
If the Cards preoccupation with with Tucker trying to steal was the call from LaRussa or the call from Molina?

by JMedwick on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

they were right to do it
had tucker dead to rights on the steal; just didn't execute.

if molina makes a simple throw to 2d base, all the effort expended on tucker would have been worth it.

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great move taking out Carpenter
Just fabulous. Oh and thanks for bringing in Looper. Nothing like waving the white flag.
MY GOD!! THAT's ADAM WAINWRIGHT'S MUSIC!!!

by Rob Rabies on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And White Flag...
keeps us right in the game by doubling the Met lead.
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

why why why
are we looking at looper in a close game
we just gave the mets two extra outs
blah!
is that what they look like? psychos? let me tell you something...pyschos dont explode whhen sunlight hits them, no matter how crazy they are

by benstl on Oct 18, 2006 10:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i'm so sick
of this team giving me hope........sorry

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 10:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This game can be summarized so far by this:

LOOPER!?

WTF!?!?!?

I'm sorry, but what the hell is he doing in there? This isn't spring training. He hasn't proven himself. He doesn't deserve that spot. I thought Tony had figured that out this year (for a change).

by glamberson on Oct 18, 2006 10:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd say
LaRussa.. I've never heard of a catcher with the power from his manager to call a pitch out on his own.

Whoever called it, it was possibly the dumbest baseball move I have seen this season.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't know why anyone
is upset about Carpenter being pulled.

With a runner on first base and one out trailing 2-0, you need a run there.

by ryanisforever on Oct 18, 2006 10:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah we don't
Because the Cards couldn't figure that out when the team could have bared down and gotten the 3rd out. Stupid freaking pitchout...

by JMedwick on Oct 18, 2006 10:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

why was the pitchout
a bad call????? they had him out! nothing wrong at all with the call; molina just didn't execute it.

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Way to go Looper
'course, if Speez had made the play in left on Tucker, he would a been out of it.

by ArkansasTravs on Oct 18, 2006 10:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

THE FLIPPING PITCHOUT
FLIPPING WORKED! YOU GUYS ARE PICKING UP ON THE WRONG FRICKIN THING - Carp should not have been pulled, I agree, but the pitchout worked perfectly, Yadi just made a bad throw.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah it worked,
but it shouldn't have been called!

You've got it backwards... pulling Carp was the right decision, the two throws over and the pitchout are the mistake.

ANnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd would you look at that.

Scott Rolen made an error. Get off the fricking field.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

boys, i still like our odds
Work is rough right now, so probably not much action/reading for me on here tomorrow..  Let's get'em soupie

by toris34 on Oct 18, 2006 10:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Michael Tucker
had 2 SB's this season, yep, you should have been really concerned with him. Very very stupid playcalling and was the difference in this game being won or lost

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

oh sure
that was the difference.

brilliant analysis

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe
not the difference in the game won or lost (that difference is in the Cards lack of timly hitting), but the pitchout and worrying about Tucker is deffinatly the deciding factor in the 2 insurance runs scored in that inning.

by JMedwick on Oct 18, 2006 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

all molina had to do
was throw the ball to 2d base. they played it just right . . . . .

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you are right
the leaving 3 guys on base in the first inning didn't help either

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

stand by it
if you can't see the lack of focus on Reyes being the key difference between a 4 run and 2 run game . . . .

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i can't see it
because it isn't there

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pick that nose
loser

by armitagecard on Oct 18, 2006 10:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Being
very optimistic here, as long as TJ can keep this in slam range they've still got a shot.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

OMFG
Oh. My. Fucking. God.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice play, Scott.
You're really helping the ballclub.
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 18, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry
but Scotty Ro is out tomorrow
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Oct 18, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

defense
THAT'S why we pay all that money.
"It ain't bragging if you can do it!" -- Dizzy Dean

by faninexile on Oct 18, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wow
this is a meltdown

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

E5
and that'll be an error

give rolen a day off

Redbirds Fun
The Kentucky Democrat

by cardsfan84 on Oct 18, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

OH bull
Pulling Carp down by 2 with a man on 1st and one out was the right move.

The wrong move was then allowing the runner at first to get into Loopers head. I mean did you see how many stops and starts and stepoffs there were in the Reyes AB? Just get the guy out. Tucker didn't matter unless Looper failed.

by JMedwick on Oct 18, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Your ace starter
With 76 pitches and 1-2 innings left in him?

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

when you are behind 2-0
you need runs. for god's sake, how can anybody fail to see that?

you're down two runs, you have 8 outs left --- you don't just give an out away. you have to try to score.

it would have been idiotic to leave carpenter in at that point

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno....if Carp maintains the lead
you are still a bloop and blast away from a tie game in the 8th or the 9th.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

belliard supplied the bloop
and duncan was the cards' shot at a blast.

you can't give away scoring opportunities at the end of a close game. our bullpen has been solid this series except for two innings --- the hancock / thompson blowup in game 4. looper pitched great in games 1 and 4.

and he should have been out of that inning but his defense betrayed him. bad throw by molina . . . .

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope so.
Last time he was benched, we won.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If you're going to suck...
...then suck well.

Get it out of your system.

Current win expectancy 1.9%

by Ignatius J Reilly on Oct 18, 2006 10:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's it ...
If Rolen can't play defense, get him the F$#K OUT OF THE LINE UP.

He's bleeping useless.

G'night.

by Urban Pawnee on Oct 18, 2006 10:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I sure hope we are getting our lack of
offense and defense out of our system tonight

by Podlol on Oct 18, 2006 10:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh Rolen
it's starting to become actually humorous now

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rolen should have made that play..
...but I don't know that Spiezo makes it either.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

TLR
should pull a Frank Robinson and pull Rolen in the middle of the inning.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This series
reeks of '96 right now

by Nate811 on Oct 18, 2006 10:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This game was lost
in the 1st inning.  Edmonds had an absolutely horrendous AB where he swung at 3 straight balls w/ runners on 2nd and 3rd and 1 out.  He HAS to get 1 in, but Maine was reeling and if Edmonds is patient and works the count, there's a good chance that he gets a hit and we put up a crooked #.  With Carp on the mound, the crowd would've been deflated and we could have rolled to the win.  Getting out of that jam gave them a lot of momentum that the homer in the bottom half just magnified.

Tonight there was just 1 terrible AB after another by our hitters -- the Edmonds AB in the 1st and the Pujols AB in the 5th or 6th as perfect examples!

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 10:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You sir have posted the winning analysis...
...of the "effort" put forth by the deadbirds tonight.

by Ignatius J Reilly on Oct 18, 2006 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks
it was either a terrible game plan or terrible execution.  I can't believe that we pissed this opportunity away and will force Suppan to face the Mets again while our hitters will face a lefty again!

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

BINGO
tonight was just one horrific at bat after another. i'm not sure what kind of approach - if any - we had as hitters entering tonight, but it sucked. pretty disgusting effort tonight by the bats.

Props to Carp and the pen for keeping it close, but I agree...the ticket to the W.S. was offered up to us on a silver platter in the 1st freakin inning and we passed on it.

How many stinking lazy fly balls did we hit tonight???

DEEP BREATH....sigh. Ok, GM 7 - Supps vs Ol Perez. Let's do this!

Pujols For MVP!

by TheFranchise9 on Oct 18, 2006 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the pitch out was a good call
i like it
he should have been out by 3 steps....
molina nails him 95% of the time
damn it scotty
is that what they look like? psychos? let me tell you something...pyschos dont explode whhen sunlight hits them, no matter how crazy they are

by benstl on Oct 18, 2006 10:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No.
It's. Not.

There is NO REASON to pitch out. You have the hitter set up perfectly, 1-2. Two outs in the inning. It's the leadoff hitter at the plate. Forget about the runner at first, get the hitter out.

Plus, you've got Reyes out, so you don't have to worry about him the next inning.

Pitchout=What the F*^% was La Russa thinking???

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you are blind
la russa nailed it --- he had the runner dead. the catcher didn't make the throw.

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why
was it the right move. Does it matter if Tucker steals second if Looper gets Reyes out? I mean Reyes was down 1-2 in the count and then came the series of throws over, step offs, and finnaly a pitchout. Talk about a good way to disrupt a pitchers rythm?

by JMedwick on Oct 18, 2006 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And
If Looper gives up a double with the runner going?

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I recall correctly
they both ended up scoring, and nobody got out, without the pitch out you increase your chances of getting one out.
Muck the Fets

by viva el rojo pajaro 42 on Oct 18, 2006 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and then after all that
reyes hits a routine groundball that happens to find a hole . . . . so what? it's not as if looper grooved a pitch and gave up a homer.

i give up . . . . .

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well tell me...
Pick your poison. Would you rather have Reyes and Tucker on (regardless of the base) because you mess around with the pitchout and help Looper loose focus, or would you rather try and get out of the inning. I feel safe saying that any move that allows Looper to loose focus and increases the likelyhood Looper pitching in high leverage situation is something I want to focus.

by JMedwick on Oct 18, 2006 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

somebody please tell me
that if Molina had made the throw to end the inning that you would still be on here shredding TLR for making the call???

Cmon, they clearly picked up on something and would have be stupid not to act on it by pitching out. How is that a bad decision? If you know they are running, pitch out and gun them down.

Bad execution doesn't mean bad decision.

Pujols For MVP!

by TheFranchise9 on Oct 18, 2006 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
Yes I would have. At the time I was commenting about why in the world were the cards so worried about Tucker when the man at the plate was who mattered.

by JMedwick on Oct 18, 2006 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the pitchout absolutely was a good call
Looper wasn't holding runners well and you have to keep that runner from reaching second base.  Considering the way we hit the ball tonight, however, the 4 run lead was really no larger than the 2 run lead.  We were awful at the plate and I had long since lost confidence in our ability to score 1 tonight, much less 4.

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok
if eck and speez get on then pujols will produce.

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 10:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Please
Someone break a bat in the 8th and stab Rolen in the heart with the shard from the handle.
MY GOD!! THAT's ADAM WAINWRIGHT'S MUSIC!!!

by Rob Rabies on Oct 18, 2006 10:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

rob, since you're new to the site
i will not ban you for that comment --- yet.

we do not tolerate infantile ravings at this site. say something intelligent, or say nothing. do not pollute this site with your bile. i don't want any part of it.

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still think the Cards can win this game
maybe it's just blind optimism, but we've turned the line-up over here and baring a base hit in the 8th or 9th innings by the Mets, they will have 5-6-7, 8-9-1.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We won't score a run tonight....
not to be a pessimist, but the offense is just completely ice cold tonight. We had our chance in the first inning and blew it. I don't think I could dislike Scott Rolen any more then I do right now.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 18, 2006 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

See y'all tomorrow night,
I'm going to get some sleep too.  Let's go Soup!!

by ArkansasTravs on Oct 18, 2006 10:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ok
We absolutely must have production. A nice single single walk grand slam by Edmonds sounds good...

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well
We are still in slam range. Next time Rolen's spot comes up, Preston Wilson better be standing in the batter's box, and Speez better be getting his infield glove from the clubhouse.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dont care
Rolen's D has never been in question, Im just really disgusted with his lack of offense and the fact that he's been hurt for the last 2 years straight.  Spez at 3rd not rolen but solid defensively, Dunc in left.  Watch us win, guaranteed.

by paulob4 on Oct 18, 2006 10:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hurt
Any production out of Rolen this year was a positive (I still think he came back too early from the shoulder injury).

I DO want him sitting on the bench now, however.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Couple things
I wonder that if needed and thought it was a good idea if Carpenter would pitch a Randy Johnson from the Diamondbacks and pitch tomorrow if LaRussa thought we really needed an out and would NOT throw Looper.......

Two, this loss pisses me off a bit for the simple fact that it looked like the boys had NO fire like they did in NY.....but I guess that happens when you have 2nd and 3rd in the first inning with one out and cant score with Edmonds up....... and then Carp gives a leadoff HR to the most annoying player in baseball.....

Three......the lineup I would assume tomorrow would be:
Eckstein - SS
Wilson - LF
Pujols - 1B
Encarnacion - RF
Speezio - 3B
Edmonds - CF
Belliard - 2B
Molina - C
Soup - P

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 10:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Game over
Unless Albert can hit a 5 R HR here.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wow
i'm so frustrated with this game.

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 10:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Swap Encarnacion for So, and I agree
I can't stand that hole in the lineup any longer.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Please Pujols
This is our last shot at making something of this game.. You do something here and the team will respond.. Do what  youve done all year

by El Hombre on Oct 18, 2006 10:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd
Pujols singles with nobody on.

Lovely.

C*ck tease.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

have,kt lost a LCS game
When Puj gets a hit
"Feel my ears, Mike!" -- Jack Buck

by ITouchedMcGee on Oct 18, 2006 10:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's a start
how about you keep it going Jimmy.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 10:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well
You guys say that when Albert starts hitting, the rest of the team wakes up...he just got a 2-out single, what's going to happen?
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Oct 18, 2006 10:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not too much
if Blue is gonna give 6 inches off the plate.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I hope Jimmy turns around
and yells in the Umpire's flipping face if he gets out.

Ain't gonna happen, but these Umps need a yelling to.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yea
we're not winning this one.

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 10:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

night boys
Can't believe I stayed up for this crap.

by SirVLCIV on Oct 18, 2006 10:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Annnnnd
Strike 3.

There's the Cards I know and hate. Terrible time to remember that they aren't supposed to be here.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Trade idea
Rolen and Reyes for A-Rod?

by paulob4 on Oct 18, 2006 10:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

um
We're here all over Rolen's case for a lack of production in the postseason, and you want to trade for A-ROD?

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh
I would trade Rolen and someone to NY for A-Rod.  I happen to think A-Rod just needs to get out of NY.  Just my opinion.  Could also be that I am pretty down on Rolen right now.  

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 18, 2006 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would do it a second.
ARod just needs the pressure lifted and he will be fine. I think he would thrive in a city with realistic supportive fans. No need to even comment on NY fans.
I would love a healthy thirdbaseman.

by deanj on Oct 18, 2006 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

healthy 3rd baseman
even if he's a shortstop?

by brock on Oct 18, 2006 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

realistic supportive fans?
Like some of the people posting on this thread?

by Dirk Dorkelson on Oct 19, 2006 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Remember when there was talk of a
Heilman for Marquis trade?  How awesome would that have been?
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Oct 18, 2006 10:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I meant
Cards in 7

Bases loaded + Rolen = Game 7

"Feel my ears, Mike!" -- Jack Buck

by ITouchedMcGee on Oct 18, 2006 10:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Who is the Ump tomorrow?.. anyone know?.....
and on the topic...... Perez on three days rest?... or Oliver?.....

going to be the biggest decision Randolph makes all postseason

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 10:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Will it matter?
I think we blew it tonight. How can you look so bad against a John Maine when you have a shot to advance. If the Birds were going to win this series it would have been tonight. Everything is in NY's favor in game 7 no matter who they pitch.

by deanj on Oct 18, 2006 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess the guys just remembered that
we always suck in the LCS

by siucardsfan on Oct 18, 2006 10:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

C'mon Soup!
If I had Rolen's LOB numbers the last 45 days, I wouldn't want to talk to La Russa either......

by TexasCardinal on Oct 18, 2006 10:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mets strategy with Albert
has worked perfectly for them.  He is not getting any chances to make a true difference (other than solo homers or starting a rally).  It's not like we have done a good job of creating the opportunities though.....

by wildman on Oct 18, 2006 10:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This loss
is not on Rolen singularly, so stop ragging on him. The middle of the Cards attack (Juan through Rolen) came up empty and that is the difference.

by JMedwick on Oct 18, 2006 10:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but
it's tough not to get on a guy who's playing the Prima Donna a little bit after being benched, then when he does play, can't hit a beach ball with a tennis racket, and makes an error defensively, which is the only saving grace he had up until that point.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever
No one said its just Rolen.  But he hasnt done squat all post season.  thats what everyone's point is.  Look deeper than 1 game man, open your eyes.

by paulob4 on Oct 18, 2006 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I
don't know. Has he been worth 12 million in this series? No I doubt it. But he hasn't been horrible, coming up with a few nice singles, good D, and he has looked better at the plate the past few games.

by JMedwick on Oct 18, 2006 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He needs to produce...
or be quiet. It's no different than when Marquis was whining that he was left off the roster or last year when King whined about not pitching. LaRussa's job is to put the best team on the field and not worry about the player's feelings.

THERE'S NO FELINGS IN BASEBALL

OMG! Rolen just got a hit, well shut my mouth and make a liar aout of me. Please!

by JimCno on Oct 18, 2006 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yesterday was inspiring
Today we were flat.

Still got to feel reasonably good about Suppan vs. Oliver "Highest ERA of any Post-season Starter Ever and I'm pitching on 3 days rest" Perez.  If we can't win that game, well I don't need to say it.

by mdhoffm2 on Oct 18, 2006 10:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tomorrow Weaver will be available as well
His side day tomorrow too..... so we wont see Thompson or Looper tomorrow.... thats two innings if needed.....

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 10:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What's Shawn Green's contract status?
I wouldn't mind seeing him in the B/B next year, I've always liked him...
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Oct 18, 2006 10:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He is a terrible
rightfielder...he has given the Cardinals atleast 5 runs this series.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

eww
Shawn Green isnt the answer.  we need to get young.  HE's got one of the worst arms and range in baseball.

by paulob4 on Oct 18, 2006 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's a dog
 and, thank god, signed for a big # (9.5 or 10 mill) for next year.  A left-handed encarnacion for double the money!  (and probably half the defense, who hits lefties about as well as Duncan does)

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edmonds Rolen Encarcion
5 4 3 LOB respectively. If you are going to get on anyone for tonight, Edmonds is the guy

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 10:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.
Edmonds failure in the first inning was huge and set the tone for the game. It gave Maine all the confidence he needed.

by deanj on Oct 18, 2006 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm counting on Weaver in Games 1, 4 and 7
of the World Series...

disgusting but true

by mdhoffm2 on Oct 18, 2006 10:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

lol!
World Series! ha!

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I apologize.
Kinda speaking outta my butt right now. Too frustrated to think straight.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No kidding
Tonight this team's hitting was pathetic.  And Looper, well you know.

At the same time the bats can't be half this bad tomorrow night.

So it's down to a game 7.  I'll take me chances.

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 18, 2006 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why the hell
is Johnson still in the game? Is Tony that confident in enK, Rolen, Belliard etc. that he's willing to throw TJ for 20 pitches in a 4-0 game in the bottom of the 8th? I don't understand.

by jms8897 on Oct 18, 2006 11:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

To me, the turning point tonight
was the top of the first inning.  We rode last night's momentum into 2nd and 3rd, 1 out.  But they got out of it and momentum completely changed.
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Oct 18, 2006 11:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If you boil it down
the difference in all the wins and losses is the hitters' willingness to go to the opposite field. When they're content to wait back and trust their hands, they stay on the ball a lot longer. But tonight, they're jumping at pitches and trying to hit everything out of the ballpark.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So what's everybody think?
Tony pinch hits for Rolen?

I know he SHOULD, but this question is if he WILL.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I sure hope so
But since it's not close...

by Nate811 on Oct 18, 2006 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speez and Duncan should have...
started the game, and Rolen should be pinch hitting now.

by guayzimi on Oct 18, 2006 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damn
Was hoping for a ph HR from the gooch man off waggy

by El Hombre on Oct 18, 2006 11:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That's 1
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 11:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There we go...
That's what ya gotta do to start it off.

And TLR doesn't hit for Rolen.

Crap.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tomorrow
Well, I have seen every inning of every postseason game so far for the Cards but I will be missing a good two-three innings tomorrow due to prior engagement....... sucks... but life..... another reason i wanted them to win it tonight......
The last time I missed the first three innings was game 7 of the NLCS in 04...... and we all know what happend during that game... so here is to tomorrow....

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 11:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmm...
double play or flyout?
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 18, 2006 11:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Juan E with a hit
a meaningless one, but a hit nonetheless...
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Oct 18, 2006 11:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It only takes one swing
to change your fortune Rolen.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 11:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh, NOW he hits.
Where the hell was that swing all night?
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 18, 2006 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now he's getting criticized when
he gets hits? It's not as if anybody else in the lineup did anything productive tonight either.
Luck O' The Redbirds

by stlnd on Oct 18, 2006 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

whoa
rolen just did something productive

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 11:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

HOLY SHIT
CAN YOU BELIEVE IT......

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 11:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Beautiful swing!
Shoulders level, head on the ball, I love it!

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

R we still in this
October Magic, All Bets Are Off

by GoGoCards on Oct 18, 2006 11:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great
now he'll bitch and moan if he doesn't play tomorrow haha.  Ah well what to do?

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 18, 2006 11:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Too little too late Scottie...
Man, sure wish Braden Looper had kept it to two runs....
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 18, 2006 11:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

C'mon Fat Ron
Here we go kid...

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tonights loss was
a total TEAM loss. Not just Scotty's, LOOP's, or Tony pulling Carp. From the 1st inning we had maine on the ropes. we should have scored a bunch of runs. but didnt and gave maine the confidence he needed to shut us down.

dont just blame one guys. this loss is on everyone.

From THE MAN, to Gibby, to The Wizard, to Albert the Great. Cardinal Tradition lives on.

by gdm426 on Oct 18, 2006 11:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

guess who is still in the bench.....
The Wagner killer.... SOOOOOOOOO TAGUCHI>>>LOL

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 11:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

On wide throws
why do we NEVER slide?
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 11:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if yomo
gets a good pitch . . .

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 11:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We are a bloop and a blast
from tying this game.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 11:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

2nd and 3rd, nobody out...
gotta put one on the board, for a moral victory at least.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ummmmmmmm
it didn't go to seven last year

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 11:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

here he comes

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 11:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

GOOCH!!

by GoGoCards on Oct 18, 2006 11:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

WOW
anybody see Blue almost call that strike 3???

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ok
this was a bad idea

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 11:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

here's the bloop
who's going to get the blast?

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 11:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i can't believe
what a bunch of crybabies are on this thread tonight

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 11:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

hallelujiah
tell em, boss...
You either get all the glory or all the... goat hair. -mike shannon

by SleepyCA on Oct 18, 2006 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry
i'm just tired of this team giving me hope and then not producing.

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
The tone here tonight turned pretty bad early, and got worse as the night went on.

At the same time certain people (and I am NOT pointing fingers) always seem to be able to spin things around and make excuse after excuse as to why this or that happened, or bring up certain scenarios that happened in the past to justify a certain player playing or to justify a decision etc.

At some point you gotta allow blame and stop giving guys passes because of things they did in the past.

Anyway, it's hard to explain entirely what I mean.

Should be a great ganme tomorrow, I can't see the bats being this dead tomorow night.  Again, we must score first is all.  

It should be, scratch that, it has been a great series.  let's end this sucka tomorrow!

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 18, 2006 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OMG
go eck.........ok this was a bad idea

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 11:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Last year, August,
Eck wins it with a walk-off grand slam against the Braves.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

does so start tomorrow
vs. the lefty?  his slg. % is higher vs. lefties than spiezio's and he's killing the ball vs. lefties right now.  I know there's a pretty big anti-So sentiment right now but...

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tomorrow's Lineup
Correction on tomorrows Lineup
Eckstein
Taguchi
Pujols
Encarnacion
Speezio
Wilson
Belliard
Molina
Soup

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 11:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Could Speizio be the
be the hero again?
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 11:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah so
taking out carp does come back to haunt us.

by tnek5 on Oct 18, 2006 11:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

it was the right move at the time
hard to hang this one on Tony.  Some complain about the pitchout...it should've worked and was a good call.  Now he took Carp out too soon?  Come on!  Right call, Dunc just hit into the DP.  When he got down 0-2, I thought he'd strike out.  As it turns out, that would've been better.

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Taguchi
HAS to be in the lineup tomorrow.......

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 11:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

agreed
TLR can't ignore his production this post season

by infiniteskills on Oct 18, 2006 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know
Obviously, So's been awesome, so starting him would be warranted. But he's also proven he can come through as a PH, which isn't an easy thing to do and could be a huge asset late in the game. I'd be ok with keeping him in his current role.
Luck O' The Redbirds

by stlnd on Oct 18, 2006 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez
how huge is Looper now. Why was he even in the game?

Geez. Carp lost.

At the risk of being called a "crybaby" I do NOT feel good about tomorrow night.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe
they put two runs on the board against Wagner. It just sucks that Looper played them out of it.

by ryanisforever on Oct 18, 2006 11:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well
next time you read a baseball article that says "speed doesn't matter", remember this game.  The mets won because they had two guys who could steal bases and shake up a pitcher.
You either get all the glory or all the... goat hair. -mike shannon

by SleepyCA on Oct 18, 2006 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dont thank Braden thank TLR
Braden did what he has done all season. Came in and gave up some runs. The fault lies with TLR for selectign him and then stickign with him too long.

by Podlol on Oct 18, 2006 11:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe Hardcore
could get a photoshop of that
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Oct 18, 2006 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sounds equivalent to
the shard of a broken bat comment

by brock on Oct 18, 2006 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I were Willie Randolph
I'd go with Perez. I'd rather have somebody who's at least STARTED a game or two in the last calendar year.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

since he doesn't need 7 innings
b/c it's game 7, I think he'll go w/ Perez.  Oliver's (Darren) numbers are very good this year and Cards' hitters don't have good career #'s against him but I'm not sure he has the pitches to get through a lineup twice again!  Perez, who did get hit more than the announcers wanted to admit, at least has very good stuff and the ability to get through the order twice w/o a Steve Trachsel incident.  Our hitters do have very good #'s against him though for their careers.  I really just hope Suppan can hold them to 3 runs in 5 or 6 IP.  There should be some runs scored tomorrow night, I just hope it doesn't turn into a slugfest!

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defend it all you want...
but I still think you've got to hang this loss on that pitchout.  If you don't call for the pitchout, Looper can focus on getting strike 3, you don't give up the 2 runs and this game is tied going to the bottom of the 9th.
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 18, 2006 11:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Major league pitchers,
even Braden Looper, are capable of holding runners on and concentrating on pitching simultaneously. The strategy worked, the execution was flawed. Did you watch the play?

by guayzimi on Oct 18, 2006 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I did.
And it cost us two runs.

The strategy DIDN'T work, or we would have been out of the inning with no runs allowed.  Blame "execution" all you want, it's still part of strategy.  And the strategy was a bad one, and it cost us the shot at a win.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 18, 2006 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That still doesn't make sense b/c
Reyes didn't drive in the run, Lo Duca did.  Looper never should have faced Lo Duca.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All the strategy called for...
was for Molina to throw the ball to Eckstein. He failed to do that. Had he done it, they wouldn't have scored.

by guayzimi on Oct 18, 2006 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not letting Yadi off the hook entirely...
because he should have made a better throw instead of sailing one.

My point is that a pitchout in that situation was the wrong move.  If Looper keeps his focus on the hitter instead of making a good pitchout throw, he gets Reyes.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 18, 2006 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if molina makes a good throw
is the pitchout still a bad move?

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey lboros...
can you freakin get rid of husk... he's ALREADY starting about tomorrow night.

We'll have to score 9 in the first or hear the same s*** all over again.

by guayzimi on Oct 18, 2006 11:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dude.
Chill. Just stating my opinion. Trust me, I love this team. Game 7's just make me nervous, especially given how flat the offense was tonight, the fact that Carp just got beaten by a rookie (who we helped out a lot at the plate), and the fact that Soup is a much better pitcher at home.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this has been
the worst game thread of the year. bar none.

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

probably
appropriate, given this was arguably the worst all-around effort of the postseason (there has to be an argument for Game 4 to have that title, too)

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Possibly because
This was the biggest game of the year and we came out flat/jet lagged?
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Oct 18, 2006 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was gonna ask why
and then I saw a post about stabbing Rolen in the heart and running him over w/ a bus or something like that.  Sheesh!  Those guys should really stay over at the p-d boards!

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again...
The tone here tonight turned pretty bad early, and got worse as the night went on.

At the same time certain people (and I am NOT pointing fingers) always seem to be able to spin things around and make excuse after excuse as to why this or that happened, or bring up certain scenarios that happened in the past to justify a certain player playing or to justify a decision etc.

At some point you gotta allow blame and stop giving guys passes because of things they did in the past.

Anyway, it's hard to explain entirely what I mean.

Should be a great game tomorrow, I can't see the bats being this dead tomorow night.  Again, we must score first is all.  

It should be, scratch that, it has been a great series.  Let's end this sucka tomorrow!

I can see why this thread got ugly, because we didn't show up tonight.  They did.  In a clinching game 6 vs John Maine with our ace on the hill.  That doesn't mean guys should say they hope guys die or get hit by a car, that's just stupid.  I'm just tired if guys throwing numbers around in an effort to make excuses and justify certain situations.  It's the present not the past, it's very much a what have you done for me lately mentality in the post season.

Now....

10 run rule those bastards tomorrow boys!

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 18, 2006 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"blame" that is assigned
in the middle of a game is usually based on emotion, not logic. rolen makes an out, and everyone wants to trade him. looper gives up a run, and everybody wants to DFA him.

i've never been a big one for "blame," anyway. the cardinals have already achieved more than you or i had a right to expect. if they lose tomorrow, there'll be no "blame" to assign --- only praise for a team that saved its best baseball for october.

that's why i'm so pissed about this game thread --- people act as if they are entitled to see nothing but victories, and are outraged when the players fail to deliver.

i don't know what to call that behavior. i don't want it on my board.

by lboros on Oct 18, 2006 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True
But at the same time, based upon the numbers that many guys tend to throw around, shouldn't have the Cards won this game tonight?

The loss doesn't justify the pathetic posts from some.  Hell I am in the boat about Rolen, although I never said "trade him right now" I did mention I hope Walt will listen to reasonable offers for him.  If for anything to get a healthy 3rd basemen.

Anyway, I see where you are coming from Larry.  A lot of the posts tonight were pretty sad to say the least.  Emotion tends to take over the brain.  

I for one will be happy with this team regardless of the outcome tomorrow, because quite frankly they probably should never have gotten this far.  

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 19, 2006 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I partially agree.
Rolen was getting thrown under the bus a bit much tonight.  The fact is, he's not going anywhere unless he wants to thanks to his no-trade (and his being signed through 2010.)

Is he being a bit of a jerk by not stepping aside when it's obvious he's not 100%?  Yeah.  Is he being a jerk by not talking to TLR at all?  Definitely.

Looper hasn't been great all year.  Going to him in that situation was an odd call, and we saw how it worked out (debate over the pitchout notwithstanding.)

Do we expect too much from our Redbirds?  That's a difficult question to answer.  We've been lucky to get to the NLCS for 3 consecutive seasons, and all we've got to show for it so far is a World Series meltdown and a Game 6 collapse against Roy Oswalt.  

I think we're entitled to expect guys to come out and play hard, and we didn't see good baseball played tonight.  We saw a catcher make two bad pickoff throws, a third baseman boot a routine ground ball and take bad swings at almost every pitch he saw, and we left runners in scoring position in too many innings.

We're not the Yankees.  We shouldn't act like Yankee fans, but at the same time we shouldn't sit idly by and be happy to watch our team collapse in the playoffs just because it "saved its best baseball for October" but forgot to show up in a big game.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 19, 2006 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

when you say
they "forgot to show up," just what are you suggesting? that the team didn't try hard enough? that they choked? didn't play hard?

i'd like you, or any fan, to back up those sorts of opinions with evidence --- particularly in light of the comeback in the 9th inning. i didn't see any quit in that team. what i saw was a good young pitcher, pitching with admirable composure, attacking a so-so lineup that has a bunch of guys playing hurt (eck pu rolen edmonds). the result was about what you'd expect.

sometimes a team just gets beat by a better club. the mets won 97 games, and they're not about to roll over and die so that all of us cardinal fans can celebrate. they're a great team, they won a big game -- nothing wrong with the cards' effort, they just lost a baseball game.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, let's see...
Eckstein: 0-4 with a walk, 1 LOB
Edmonds: 0-3 with a walk, 2 K, 4 LOB
Encarnacion: 1-3, 1 K, 3 LOB
Rolen: 1-4, 4 LOB, 1 E
Belliard: 1-4, 1 K, 2 LOB
Molina: 0-3 with a walk, 3 LOB

Team LOB: 8

Blame injuries if you want, but the fact is this team left their bats in St. Louis.  John Maine isn't Jason Marquis, but he's not Cy Young either.  They should have mustered more than 2 hits off of him.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 19, 2006 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not blaming injuries alone
maine may not be cy young, but the cardinals aren't exactly murderer's row either. it's a mediocre offense that has been prone to getting shut down all season. the fact that they didn't hit in game 6 doesn't suggest to me that they "didn't show up"; it reminds me that they're not a very good group of hitters in the first place.

they did the same thing in game 5, you know --- didn't score with the bases loaded and nobody out in the bottom of the 5th; couldn't get miles home from 3d with one out in the 8th. does that mean they "didn't show up" for game 5 either?

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those same guys in Game 5...
Eckstein: 2-5, 1 R, 1 LOB
Edmonds: 1-3 with a walk, 1 K, 2 LOB
Encarnacion: 1-3 with a walk
Rolen: 1-3 with a walk, 1 R, 1 K, 4 LOB
Belliard: 1-4, 1 RBI, 1 K
Molina: 0-3 with a walk

Eckstein is the key there: he actually did something last night.  Jimmy converted last night's hit to a strikeout tonight.  Belliard's RBI came with 2 outs last night; he had the same situation tonight and grounded out.

Sitting Wilson and batting Spiezio ahead of Pujols was not necessarily a smart call either: Wilson has batted second in two of the Cards' NLCS wins, while Spiezio's previous appearance in the #2 hole was the 12-4 drubbing.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 19, 2006 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but again quietude
what's your point? baseball is like that --- guys go 2-5 one day, and 0-5 the next day. does that mean they "forgot to show up" on the 0-for-5 day? do you think they are supposed to go 2-for-5 every day?

sure it's frustrating that they didn't hit the ball tonight. i'm sure nobody was more frustrated than the cardinals themselves. but even after being stymied for 8 innings, they kept grinding in the 9th against the mets' best reliever --- took some damn good at-bats, got the tying run up there.

they gave it their best effort. that's all they owe us. their best wasn't good enough tonight. maybe it will be tomorrow

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rolen's best effort...
is refusing to get out of the lineup when everyone, himself included, knows he's got no business being out there?

They weren't having good at-bats all night.  Albert went up there waving at breaking balls at his shoetops in one AB.  Encarnacion and Rolen both swung at ball 4s in situations where a walk could have turned into a run.  Eckstein wasn't doing much to try and get on, and Spiezio was hacking at everything.

Baseball is a fickle game sometimes, true, but the point is that when you're in a game like tonight's, you elevate your game to the next level.  They didn't elevate their game tonight, they regressed.  The manager didn't help matters any with some of his decisions (lifting Carp after 76 pitches when he was getting in a groove?  Going to Looper?  The pitchout?  Not getting Preston Wilson into the game?  Letting Rolen keep taking swings that wouldn't drive the ball out of a little league field?)

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 19, 2006 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Huh?
I'm a little confused.  We all wanted the same thing: a Cardinal win tonight.  We didn't get it, and so we're trying to break down why we lost.

Your opinion tonight appears to be that much like a little league team, we should be proud that they tried hard even though they didn't win, and it's not their fault.

This isn't little league, though, and we don't get to go for sno cones after the game (even if Gary Bennett's buying. :D )  Is it wrong that we expected a win tonight?  Shouldn't that be the default position for any fan of any team?  Isn't it fairly normal to look for reasons why a team didn't win after a tough loss?

I don't disagree that this is not a particularly good Cardinal team.  In fact, it's probably the worst team since the 1999 team that went 75-86.  We did limp through the regular season, but the beauty of the playoffs is that regular-season performance doesn't matter, and for the better part of 2 and a half weeks this team has been good.

This is the best Cardinal blog on the net for a reason, lboros: every one of us that reads it wants to share their view as well and come together as Cardinal fans.  We're going to disagree some times, but I would hope that something as drastic as banning people would be reserved for matters weightier than an emotionally-charged discussion after a hard playoff loss.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 19, 2006 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i like it when people
exchange views. that's what used to go on at this site.

50 guys posting "rolen sucks," "i hate looper," "screw la russa" is not exchanging views. it's people whining because their team lost, or is in the process of losing. and i'm sick of it. it sickens me that this type of stuff goes on at my site.

in case you couldn't tell.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not defending the people...
who were suggesting some truly awful things (stabbing Scotty with a broken bat?  C'mon.)

Being annoyed that Looper gave up a couple of runs (he got screwed, btw: they shouldn't have been earned) is a little different in my view.  The game thread is like a few of your friends sitting around watching the game, only online.  Sometimes you yell at guys while you're watching the game, and that's just been extended here.

And complaining about TLR's decisions is pretty much a part of being a fan of any team he manages, isn't it?  I've met plenty of White Sox and A's fans who still complain about his managerial style.

I can understand why you're upset.  The place has changed a bit over the season, but that's because VEB is the preeminent Cardinal blog.  You get pimped on Deadspin once a week these days.  You get published in the WSJ!

This is just some growing pains, because what used to be a quiet neighborhood sports bar is now a city block-sized three-story sports emporium.  Things will settle down eventually.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 19, 2006 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm glad Rolen didn't take himself out of the game
since he ended up being the second of our only 2 runs.  I'm sure Preston Wilson, Aaron Miles or John Rodriguez could have been just as productive in that situation...oh wait, they couldn't because you COULD NOT be more productive in that situation than Rolen was.  
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2006 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rolen's hit...
was the best swing he put on a ball all night.  I'll give him credit for that.

If Spiezio replaced him in the starting lineup, though, with Wilson in LF, who's to say we don't jump on Maine like we did in Game 2?  His defense didn't do us any big favors tonight, and his diminished hitting contributed to our inability to convert RISP early in the game.

Hindsight's always 20/20, but I still think keeping Rolen on the bench tonight would have been a better move.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 19, 2006 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wilson is hitting WORSE
than Rolen is in the NLCS.
Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2006 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's the only guy...
to do anything in the #2 hole, though.  Duncan was 0-fer, and Spiezio hasn't done anything there either.

As I just said at my own blog, it's not like there's much to choose from here.  We're not the Murderer's Row Yankees; you just have to hold your nose and pick the option that gives you a chance, and Wilson seems to be that guy for the job in this series.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 19, 2006 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rolen actually outproduced Spiezio tonight though
Granted, Rolen's production didn't come until the 9th, but Spiezio wasn't any better -- he had a one-out single in the first then failed to hit the ball out of the infield the rest of the game. Maybe if he had been hitting in the same situations as Rolen, he would've come through, but it's tough to see that when Spiezio (or anybody else in the lineup, really) looked just as lost against Maine as Rolen did tonight.
Luck O' The Redbirds

by stlnd on Oct 19, 2006 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh
this team could have...

Clemems at P
Pujols at 1st
Soriano at 2nd - not left
Tejeda at SS
A-Rod at 3rd
Mauer at C
Ramirez at LF
Beltran in CF
Vlad in RF

and certain "well known" posters here would still give them a "get out of jail free pass" most of the time despite pathetic play.  Because as we all know, good hitter only succeed 1/3rd of the time.  Excuse me while I puke.

This current team has overachieved.  Let's just enjoy it while it lasts.  Win or lose tomorrow I have ZERO doubts this team didn't try.  They played hard at the end and never quit.  That I thank them for.  

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 19, 2006 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you really don't
understand baseball at all, do you pujols4mvp . . . .

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually I do
I played 4 years at SMSU with Ryan Howard as a fellow player during that tenure.  So don't even start.  You want the credentials you just holler my friend. I will HAPPILY supply them.

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 19, 2006 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Larry
you may "run" this site, but that doesn't mean you're the freakin say all as far as this game/team goes.

This team plays badly and you're the first guy to pay tribute to the other team's pitching, managing etc.  I can't recall the last time you placed blame on this team for playing bad.  The onkly way this team plays bad is because of the team they are playing, not because they simply sucked.

Ban me or whatever.  Somebody needs to say it.  Root when we win, but don't you dare bash us if we lose.  That's the mentality around here.  When we lose?  We don't play bad, we get outplayed by excellant pitching or mangering.  Larry, you know that's not the case.  Why you intend on preaching it is beyong me.

Tonight, besides Carp, this team played PISS POOR.  Regardless of what Maine did.  I went to Omaha 2 years ago, and I know what it's like to be dominated so don't tell me I don't know baseball.

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 19, 2006 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don't think you know
jack. and you prove it with comments like that.

i don't place "blame" on this team when it plays badly because it is a badly constructed team. i don't expect players to rise above their limitations; you on the other hand expect players to deliver wins on a silver platter to satisfy your needs as a fan.

i don't respect that.

and yes, you are banned. your attitude sucks; i don't want it fouling up my site, which i do "run." go post your thoughts elsewhere.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey -
we got inside Wagner's head (again) ...

that can only be a good thing

Signed,
Looking-For-Positives

by Urban Pawnee on Oct 18, 2006 11:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think there's some truth in that
He's gotta know, and we've gotta know that we can get to him.  That might help us tomorrow.  Hopefully, though, we never see Wagner tomorrow.

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's still a member...
of the Club for Astros Relievers Who Choke in the Playoffs.

And Brad Lidge still had jackets made.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 18, 2006 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
If the cards can pull this one off tommorow, what a birthday present that would be.

If not, Its my party.. and i can cry if i want to.

by El Hombre on Oct 18, 2006 11:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's Official
Perez vs. Soup

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 11:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oliver
Darren Oliver, Randolph said, will be first for long relief if Oliver Perez gets into trouble early.....

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That means
we need some mileage from that early trouble

by Nate811 on Oct 18, 2006 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

my lineup tomorrow
eckstein, ss
wilson, rf
pujols, 1b
edmonds, cf
rolen, 3b
belliard, 2b
taguchi, lf
yadi, c
supp, sp

come on sup we need ya tomorrow. GO CARDS!!! (and hit)

by cards4ever on Oct 18, 2006 11:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I like that lineup
I don't know if you sit Rolen or not, now that I think about it. Lefty on the mound, and Speez isn't as dangerous a hitter from the right side. I dunno.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i would
put gooch in left and hit 2nd, the dudes a monster 4-4, 2 hrs, 2b
o and rolen should definately sit and speeze should start

by cjwest20 on Oct 18, 2006 11:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My lineup tomorrow
Eckstein SS
Taguchi LF
Pujols 1B
Wilson RF
Spiezio 3B
Edmonds CF
Belliard 2B
Molina C
Suppan P

No Juan E or Scotty Ro.  TLR will never do it...

In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Oct 18, 2006 11:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree
Taguchi in the two hole...starting in left.... start Rolen tomorrow too.... just waaaaaay down in the order.....

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 11:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

looks good
i'd take that lineup too

by cjwest20 on Oct 18, 2006 11:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ha
Larry said that this is the worst game thread of the year, and I wasn't even a part of it!

by ryanisforever on Oct 18, 2006 11:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

umm
we put a 5 spot on perez last game and somethin tells me that its goin to be more than that with him on short rest

by cjwest20 on Oct 18, 2006 11:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah man........shake it off.
I'll take my chances with Suppan tomorrow.  Would've been nice to have Albert up there in the 9th.....but we didn't.  Couple positives: that game wasn't poorly pitched (yes even Looper) and we didn't fold in the 9th.  This simply isn't the regular season Birds...not sure i've seen anything quite like it.

See ya Saturday in Detroit......pack a red sweater folks.

It happened on a Sunday afternoon, August 22, 1982.

by Glenn Brummer stole home on Oct 18, 2006 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The series isn't over
These guys can definitely win tomorrow night and get to the next round. It's gonna require a big-time ego check at the door for the hitters. They canNOT be so aggressive at the plate. That's what happened early against Glavine last night.

If you think about it, this game and last night's were very similar. Cards' hitters came out way too aggressive early, Mets put up two.

But, the difference is that after that, the Cardinal hitters adjusted their approach and just tried to go up the middle and opposite field.

They're still gonna pull the ball (see: Pujols' longball last night), but that's because of quickness of the hands and timing of the swing, not getting out in front and trying to yank everything to Hackensack.

Cards need to jump out early tomorrow. Specifically, I think they need to score in the first inning. Get inside Perez's head, take the crowd out of it, take the pressure of the hitters for the rest of the game.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tomorrow's lineup
Rolen has GREAT career #'s vs. Perez.  I'd think he'd have to be in there.  Plus, Spiezio just isn't that good right-handed.  His avg. is OK but his slugging % is lower than Taguchi's vs. lefties.  Wilson, Taguchi, and Encarnacion are pretty even:

Wilson 1-11 but 6 BB's
Taguchi 5-17
Enc.  5-17 1 HR

In game 4, Juan had a 3B off Perez.  Spiezio played left.  I'd go w/ Juan and Gooch probably.

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Can we get another 2004 Game 7 performance...
out of Ole' Soup Can? If so, we won't have to worry about deciding who should be the series MVP ;)
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 18, 2006 11:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This love affair with Spiezo is getting silly
I know he has been clutch for us, but since his Game 2 heroics, he has gone 2 for 11 with 2 RBI and a 3B (.181) while Rolen has gone 4 for 14 with 0 RBI and a 2B (.286).

Rolen has been frustrating, but it isn't like Speizo is making the decision any easier.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 18, 2006 11:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's that damn beard!
It's so...so....ENCHANTING!!
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 18, 2006 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hot hand has been played
I loved his first start in place of Rolen - and it paid off.  But I think he is at his best in limited-duty, high leverage situations (pinch hitting late in the game).

If they go with a lefty (which they probably will), we need Rolen's glove in the lineup.  And maybe, just maybe, that hit against Wagner in the 9th tonight woke him up.

by wildman on Oct 19, 2006 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Taguchi
Everyone's been so down on him all year, actually nasty towards him. And now we want him to start?

by busch bird on Oct 18, 2006 11:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this was on The Daily Show
"If the New York Mets win, we'll let you move to St. Louis, and think you went to heaven."
--Former Attorney General John Ashcroft (R-MO), The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, October 18, 2006

Ashcroft was answering the seat of heat question.

Redbirds Fun
The Kentucky Democrat

by cardsfan84 on Oct 18, 2006 11:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Mets are what we thought they were.
They're what we thought they were. We played them in the regular season, who takes the regular season like it's b---s---? B---s---!  The METS are who we THOUGHT they were.  And that's why we took the d--- field.  Now: if you wanna crown them, then crown their a--! But they ARE who we THOUGHT they were! And we let 'em off the hook!

by Nate811 on Oct 18, 2006 11:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

HAHAHAH!
That is great, Screw TLR, we need Denny Green!!
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 18, 2006 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's what an NFL coach said...
this week. The Arizona Cardinals blew a 20 point second half lead, and their coach exploded in the post game press conference and said all that. It's hilarious.
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 18, 2006 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No...
it was Denny Green's attempt at an answer to a reporters question after the Monday night game. After 18 years or whatever I still have to root against Bidwill.

by guayzimi on Oct 18, 2006 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll say this also
I was extremely frustrated w/ how poorly our offense looked tonight.  Lots of swinging at pitches out of the strike zone, no patience whatsoever and a stubborn refusal by some to hit the ball to RF.  But the team kept fighting in the 9th when they could've packed it in and gotten ready for game 7.  So when people start posting or talking about how they quit, or have no heart or guts or stuff like that, remember that it's complete bull.  Rolen had a rough night.  Made an error.  Didn't hit the ball hard.  But he squared up a Wagner slider and ripped it in the 9th.  This team still has fight in it and, if Suppan can contain (not control) their offense tomorrow, we'll have a chance.

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Never underestimate the power of Soup.
Of the two remaining games in Shea, Game 7 was the one that I felt better about on paper. A lot of people in here are acting like Maine's some bum rag-ass arm that the Cards should automatically steam roll. The dude's got talent.

Let's go get 'em Cards. Perez on three-days' rest is asking for trouble.

by steve in georgia on Oct 18, 2006 11:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Best. Wife. Ever.
It's my fourth wedding anniversary tomorrow, and the missus wants--nay, demands--to watch Game 7. Goddam I love this woman. She even knows how to work the double switch.

(Get your mind out of the gutters.)

A few thoughts:

--Keep Rolen in the lineup, bat him 7th or 8th. If it were a righty going, I'd play Speez. In the likely case though, Speez is much more valueable off the bench and not skating around in LF. Start Taguchi or Wilson...but if you start Wilson do NOT bat him 2nd. Bat Belly or JEd there.

--Hit the damn ball.

--Run on the bases a bit...get creative.

--Lock Looper in the equipment room and put the key in Chris Duncan's mouth. No WAY anyone goes after it there. If they're not named Wainwright, Kinney or Johnson, they don't make it out of the bullpen (I'm assuming Weaver would be available for a spot out--his day to throw?)

--Hope Suppan has his A game, and hope we've learned enough about hitting lefties in this series. We can hit their bullpen.

Win it...nothing kills my wife's mood like a Cardinals loss!

"I don't believe what I just saw!" ~ Jack Buck

by itsalemmon1019 on Oct 18, 2006 11:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oct 19th
What a great day!.. (Day I was born):]
Happy Anniversary!

by El Hombre on Oct 18, 2006 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

itsalemmon
you have done extremely well for yourself, my friend. congratulations on the anniversary.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Game 7
Eckstein
Taguchi
Pujols
Edmonds
Encarnacion
Molina
Rolen
Belliard

Molina has hit Perez pretty well.. had a homer off him last time.. I would even consider batting him 5th...

Rolen needs to be moved down. A better option that a right handed hitting Speez IMO.

Gooch has good #'s vs Perez and has as much as many might not like it he deserves a start.

Wilson may hit lefties, just not Oliver Perez. Leave him out of the lineup.

by El Hombre on Oct 18, 2006 11:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I need a pick-me up and I'm sure you do too
so I'll try and inject a bit of optimism into this horrible game thread.

We've got Soup going tomorrow.  They don't even know WHO they've got going.

We've got a guy who's been there before, who's won an NLCS game 7 before, who's done it against Roger FREAKING Clemens in a game 7 before.  They don't have Roger Clemens.  They don't even know WHO they've got going.

We've got So Taguchi, who is now 4 for his last 4.  Do they even have a player who can come off the bench?  Julio Franco you say?

We've got Albert Pujols, who - while some may have missed it - was 2 for 3 tonight and seems to have regained his confidence at the plate.  He had one bad at-bat sandwiched in there, but he's looked right again ever since he homered off of Glavine.  None of their mashers went better than 1-4 tonight and Delgado went 0-4.

We've got Adam Wainright who has been absolutely FILTHY.  They've got Billy Wagner, who we've now torched for multiple runs twice.

I like our chances.  I did not expect us to be in this position.  If you told me three weeks ago that we'd be in position to go to the World Series with Suppan (who's been absolutely MONEY down the stretch and in the postseason) on the hill and with the opposing team still deciding who their starter is, I'd be pretty happy.

I like our chances.  Cards in 7.

by stlmapman on Oct 18, 2006 11:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The pitch out isn't the issue ...
The first inning was the issue.  Rookies spook.  We smelled it, and we pressed too hard when we didn't break through.

Both teams have done it this series. Tally up the scores over these six games and you'll find that one solitary run separates the two dugouts.

I still think they have a shot tomorrow ... unless the Mets draw little bears on their uniforms surrounded by red Cs.

Remember?  Take a deep breath, people.  These ninth innings thin your hair ... but this team was in the NINTH CIRCLE during the summer.

Cardinals in seven.

It's bad luck to be superstitious.

by red menace on Oct 18, 2006 11:48 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Geesh
I see the new update and have this feeling that I just got scolded by father haha.

Although I agree, the tone of todays game thread turned sour and just got worse as the night went on.  

I personally think I know the reason why.  But it's not important now.

Good Lord do I have a calm, great feeling about tomorrow night.

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 18, 2006 11:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Anyone else excited as I am....
about our bullpen next year?
TJ/Kinny/AW(Closer)

I can't wait.

Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 18, 2006 11:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I can wait
about 10 more days!

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think
The only real constant there is TJ. Kinney is great, yes, but you have to be a little careful with guys like that. I think Kinney has the stuff to stick and be an impact reliever, but there is sometimes the potential for a "sophomore slump."

And for AW, I want him in the rotation. No question, in my mind.

by Jhusk on Oct 18, 2006 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dirty thread. so what? at least it's a thread
who cares if the thread was dirty?

you should be happy that this blog is popular at all, given the way those other sbnation blogs are turning out.

The Cards at night, are big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas

by texbird on Oct 18, 2006 11:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow.
lboros writes an informative and well-written blog and this is the kind of respect he gets?  You should be thankful you have this blog to post these opinions of yours, and that lboros does what he does.
In Albert we trust.

by Mr Redbird on Oct 18, 2006 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ambience
Did I say that lboros does NOT write an informative and well-written blog? No.

I should have been more careful about what I meant, sorry. We should be happy that we have VEB... and everything that comes with it: excellent analysis, popularity, etc.

This blog has a large and growing number of mild-mannered quality posters. They should enjoy their companions as well as the "ambience" of trash talking around them.

This is baseball: yes, there is a science to the game, yes there is a history to the game, but in the end, and yes it is essentially grown men throwing balls around and wearing silly hats.

Tension runs high, emotion runs high, immaturity runs high, and thanks to VEB, scholarship runs high as well.

The Cards at night, are big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas

by texbird on Oct 19, 2006 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ummmmmm, I care
and I think a few others do, too.  This is far and away the best blog out there.  It is that way b/c, for the most part, we are able to have lucid, intelligent conversations about all things Cardinals.  Posts like "someone should stab Rolen in the heart with a broomstick" take away from the value of the site for everyone.

It's not about being popular.  It's about having a great site, where people can have intelligent, and sometimes spirited debate about the games.  If you want to rant, I'd suggest the p-d boards.  You'll fit in quite nicely.  But most of us enjoy this site for the thoughtful and cogent posts and do not want to read some of filth that some want to spew!

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow
That's pretty lame bro.  Have some class?

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 19, 2006 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

don't call out lboros
like that. He works hard everyday to bring us the best blog around.

P.S. Remember this is his site, so he can do and say what he wants.

by tnek5 on Oct 19, 2006 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah it's a thread...
but when you're trying to make a fine wine you don't want to serve it up to a bunch of piss drunk ogres...

by guayzimi on Oct 19, 2006 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

texbird
i care about making this a place where good cardinal fans will want to come and talk baseball. when the conversation gets ugly, good people don't want to be a part of it.

as for the blog being popular --- it's about quality, not quantity. what good is it to get 50,000 hits a day if the comments are all "F U ROLEN!" and "la russa sucks!"

i'd rather have 200 intelligent comments and zero stupid ones, rather than 200 intelligent comments and 500 hateful rants.

let's see you start a blog and draw an audience. then your opinion might be worth something.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ps ---- thanks to all above
who spoke appreciatively of the blog. i want very badly for this to be a place for cardinal fans to enjoy baseball together. i do not have any interest in providing a forum for people to whine and complain and expose their ugliness to the world when the team loses a baseball game.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes
a baseball community just gets frustrated and makes asinine comments, including myself. Baseball is not only the polished plaque hanging in Cooperstown, but also the drunken mustard-stained fan who curses while knocking over someone else's beer... for better or worse.

I do think it is worthwhile to hold a mirror up to the VEB community every once in a while to make sure that the community doesn't drift too far from quality standards.

I made sure not to say anything about the quality of the main blog postings here at VEB... it is without a doubt HIGH. There are also lots of other great sbnation blogs out there that are completely barren of visitors, and that's all I meant.

The Cards at night, are big and bright, deep in the heart of Texas

by texbird on Oct 19, 2006 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

having a full house
can be a mixed blessing . . . . .

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would bet my left nut LaRussa plays Tags tomorrow
I am hoping that Friday's headlines say Taguchi, Speezio, Lead Cards in Series Win

I'll drink a few before the game for Taguchi tomorrow.......

Eckstein - SS
Taguchi - LF
Pujols - 1B
Encarnacion - RF
Edmonds - CF
Belliard - 2B
Rolen - 3B
Molina - C
Soup - P

by stlcardi70 on Oct 18, 2006 11:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rolen before Belliard
and maybe Jimmy.  At some point, he's gonna come through.  He's a .450 lifetime hitter vs. Perez.  If Perez leaves one out over the plate, he'll smash it.  Remember, Belly's not exactly tearing the cover off the ball either!

by chuckb on Oct 18, 2006 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Taguchi 2006 NLCS MVP...
You can count on that. He's going to go 5-5 tomorrow with 3 RBI's and make a diving catch in the OF!!!
Miller sucks.

by Ankiels Missing Curveball on Oct 18, 2006 11:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, lboros
Was I unhappy we lost.  You bet!  Was there something wrong with our effort tonight - no way.  Our guys played a hard nine and came up on the short end of the stick.  We had our chances, but they outplayed us tonight.  Tip of the cap to Maine, Reyes & Co.  If folks are looking for perfection they're on the wrong planet looking at the wrong beings.  This was a hard fought baseball game that went their way - kind of like last night that went our way.

Don't forget that they are the 97 win team and that we're the 83 win team playing a lot better than we did during the season.  We have been "playing with house money" since we entered the postseason and it has been a great ride.  We've still got a great chance at the WS tomorrow night - and if it ends there I personally think all in all it has been a good season.  Given all the issues we faced - both those of our own creation (front office moves, pitching Marquis too much, pushing the injured guys, etc.) and the ones we couldn't control (injuries, etc.) - things worked out way better than they should have.

Let's not criticize Met fans for their comments and actions and turn around to put on a poor display ourselves.

GO CARDS!  Put on the hitting shoes and earn a date with the Tigers on Saturday!

by wildman on Oct 18, 2006 11:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey,
we have another Game 5 overflow thread!

by Nate811 on Oct 18, 2006 11:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

wow
5 . . . . . must be pujols related.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

come on., Soup..
If we lose to Oliver Perez twice in a week, we don't deserve to go to the Series, plain and simple.

If someone would have offered me a one-game-take-all scenario during the last week in September, I would have taken it in a heartbeat. Hopefully, that 9th-inning rally is something to build on.

Today, I felt really good, but I've thought that knowing the 2006 Cards, the moment I started believing, they would open up the trap door under my feet. I've had an uneasy vision about someone going Chambliss off Wainwright and seeing that replayed 10 million times for the rest of my freaking life on the Eastern Sports Programming Network.

If I get through tomorrow without impaling the cat, myself or destroying anything in my apartment (see telephone, 2001 NLDS), I will be happy. I hope Soup has a little juice left in that papal blessing he got last winter.

     

by bbqbirdy on Oct 19, 2006 12:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

and if we lose ...
no way am I letting Tommy Lasorda into my apartment

by bbqbirdy on Oct 19, 2006 12:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

LOL
"I don't believe what I just saw!" ~ Jack Buck

by itsalemmon1019 on Oct 19, 2006 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

now that's funny
it's your duty judy has become a rallying cry around the office lately

by Bubs on Oct 19, 2006 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still think
The pitchout, while not the REASON the Cardinals lost, was unnecessary and a bad call.

Was it good anticipation by TLR? Yes.
Should the runner have been out? Yes.
Was it a bad throw by Molina? Yes.

But.

Was it necessary? I don't think so.

Here's why.

Runner on first, two out, 1-2 count on the hitter. Loop has Reyes set up perfectly.

The pitcher's job, #1 priority, is to get the hitter out. Forget about the runner. You got the hitter right where you want him, don't let him go free.

I'm not even crazy about throwing over to first at all with two strikes and two outs. Get the hitter.

Honestly, I could see the pitchout being called on the 1-2 pitch. It's actually a better running count. Pitchout on 1-2, runner stays, 2-2, Loop gets Reyes. By pitching out on 2-2, you run the count full and force Looper to give Reyes something to hit. You take the strikeout pitch out of his hands, because he can't walk Reyes.

That's why I think the pitchout was a bad idea.

Not trying to blame La Russa, Looper, and Yaddi for this loss. Not trying to come down on any one person. Not trying to be a "crybaby." Just breaking down what happened and analyzing a baseball game. Which is fun.

by Jhusk on Oct 19, 2006 12:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Exactly.
TLR bailed the Mets out by calling for the pitchout.
Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 19, 2006 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But
You can't throw it all on Tony. Questionable move? Yeah. But the bottom line is, if Yad makes that throw like he does 999 times out of 1,000, Cards are out of the inning, they tie it in the ninth, and who knows? maybe we're still playing right now.

Also, if Eck isn't holding Chavez on at second, he gets to Reyes' groundball quicker and throws him out.

If Loop makes a better pitch, we're out of the inning.

Blame can go anywhere, but the call and subsequent lack of execution opened the door for two more Mets runs.

by Jhusk on Oct 19, 2006 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reyes was hot tonight
nothing to lose by calling a pitchout 1-2.  And fyi - Looper against LH batters is generally a bad sight.  why not try to end the inning.

if that play works everyone is calling TLR a genius for getting inside Willie Randolph's head.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Oct 19, 2006 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

jhusk, i just disagree with how
you are breaking the play down. here's where your argument fails.

you write: "By pitching out on 2-2, you run the count full and force Looper to give Reyes something to hit. You take the strikeout pitch out of his hands, because he can't walk Reyes."

actually, with a base open and lo duca on deck looper could have walked reyes on 3-2; the pitchout did not force looper to give in to reyes. and he didn't give in to him; he didn't groove a fastball. he threw a pitcher's pitch, and reyes hit it on the ground, which is the result looper wanted.

you keep asserting that the pitchout contributed to the subsequent hit by reyes, but the facts don't support that. the cards pitched the guy tough even after the pitchout, and he barely scratched his way on base.

by lboros on Oct 19, 2006 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But
you're not gonna want to walk Reyes (who can fly). Yeah, the Loopster made a pitcher's pitch, but my point is, on 1-2 (or even 2-2) with Molina behind the plate, he can bounce a curve/slider/splitty to go for a K.

The bottom line is, you can make the argument for the pitchout, and it can be a convincing argument, but to me, it doesn't make much baseball sense to me. You've got the hitter 1-2, focus on him, get rid of Reyes, so you don't have to face him again next inning.

by Jhusk on Oct 19, 2006 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK - someone help me out here....
I played a little ball years ago - I could smack a breaking ball to right field with some consistency, but I could never catch up to a good fastball... until I started cheating.

I'd start a little early with my hands if I was guessing fastball, and if I could feel (see) the catcher sitting inside, I'd even stride abit towards 3rd instead of straight ahead. opening up, pulling my hips, whatever you want to call it. BUT - it worked. I went from a guy as a freshman who would get the bat knocked out of his hands by a good inside fastball to a guy who every once in awhile turned that pitch down the left field line.

sure, it resulted in some really ugly swings when I guessed wrong - but overall, I hit more balls harder than I did trying to stay on the ball....

I mention this because it is painfully obvious to everyone who's watched more than one Rolen at-bat what the Met's strategy is. bust him inside and up with the hard stuff.

What I don't understand is why he isn't adjusting to that? I can't remember a single at-bat where he's opened up a wee bit early or started his hands quicker to try to catch up to the high heat. Why not? Does his shoulder hurt him so badly that he can't even open up to pull a ball even if he guesses right and doesn't have to yank his hands in? if so - then it's waaaay past time for him to sit.

If not, then what the hell is our batting coach telling him? It's time to cheat scotty. the idea of staying inside and pushing everything to right field only works if you're able to get behind the ball - and you can't get behind a high inside fastball. It's time to cheat.

Just one or 2 at-bats where you rip a ball that's inside on you down the line (and no, I'm not talking about an 84 mph hanging slider in the middle of the plate) would force them to at least throw something on the outer half of the plate once or twice.....

I just don't understand why a pro like Rolen hasn't tinkered with his approach at all during this obsene slump. Someone with more experience or insight than me care to help me out?

by Bubs on Oct 19, 2006 12:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll admit to watching the result
more often than how he got there or what the pitches were, so you may have a valid point about the swing and Rolen's approach. But, he actually has pulled some balls and hit them pretty well...problem is he's pulled them a little too far and they end up foul. His K against Bradford in Game 5 is the best example, where early in the sequence he missed breaking the game open with a double by about 3 feet down the LF line. It's hacks like those that give me and other Rolen defenders confidence that he can actually get something going one of these nights, b/c they show that he hasn't completely lost his stroke, even if he's not exactly on top of his game right now.
Luck O' The Redbirds

by stlnd on Oct 19, 2006 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that is true
Rolen has pulled a couple balls down the line and unfortunately both dropped just a couple feet foul.... However (and I don't remember the exact pitch) the fact that he's had God-only-knows how many opportunities to do that and we can only remember a couple of times he's got around on it (early) means he's not cheating - - but that the balls he's hit down the line were way inside. I don't recall any of his hits being really smoked - sorta humpback liners.....

I'm too lazy to look it up, but has he even grounded out to the left side of the field? I know he's popped out to the SS a couple times....

My brother and I had this conversation yesterday afternoon so I watched Rolen's ABs very closely yesterday and today and didn't see any signs of him trying to speed up his bat at all. I freely admit I didn't pay too much attn to this particular thought until the past 2 games, but I can say with some conviction that I don't think Rolen had made any adjustments to the pitch selection in the first few games of the series....

by Bubs on Oct 19, 2006 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure
he's grounded to short a few times

by Nate811 on Oct 19, 2006 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did the double play ball
where Edmonds tried to take out the 2nd baseman go to short or 2nd?

by sdrone on Oct 19, 2006 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hmmm not much to say
I'd have prefered to not see Encarnacion hitting against a righty tonight. My preference would have been Duncan given the splits.  And i really am not a fan of Encarnacion batting that high in the order.  but with a lefty on the mound he probably needs to start.

How bad did Rolen look tonight??? All he could do was foul fastballs straight back again and again and again.  His shoulder must be killing him.

Jimmy was swinging at some slop tonight.  He looks better in the field and at the plate but not as disciplined as usual.  I wonder if he's not able to pick up the ball as well post-concussion...

also, glad i wasn't reading this thread during the game.  How many people thought the cards would get this far?  Ok well anyone who answered 'i did' is a pathological liar.  The team played some mediocre ball tonight both offensively and defensively and Carpenter again seemed betrayed by his curveball early on.  It happens.  Can't wait for game 7 tomorrow.

Acquire Jason Schmidt!

by azruavatar on Oct 19, 2006 12:13 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The only thing i'm mad about is
TRL pulling carpenter after his quick inning and that is a minor complaint. Yeah, i'm upset with looper for coming in and giving up two runs but he also just helped us get through a 162 game season and he deserves to be out there just as much as any of the rookies. Maybe they shouldn't of thrown out to pick off Tucker but if they got him would anyone be complaining? This game represents the '06 cardinals very well. They started off good and then kinda stumbled but they played the whole game and they gave themselves a chance to win in the end.

by tnek5 on Oct 19, 2006 12:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rolen & Looper...
that's all I have to say about that.
"Don't fail to miss tomorrow's game!" - Dizzy Dean

by jdubya on Oct 19, 2006 12:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

One last thing about the thread tone....
Just an observation on my part but...

I think the biggest problem is this...

Too many people here have 1 way of looking at things and 1 way of looking at things only.

As in,

Say a player for STL goes 0-4 and has terrible at bats after terrible at bats.  

You will have your posters bashing the Cardinal player saying "my goodness what the hell is so and so doing, what is he swinging at, he looks lost"

And you will have other posters saying "so and so just made quality pitches when needed, and beared down when he needed to"

In my opinion, both of those type of posters are excuse makers, plain and simple.

But that's the nature of sports and fans.  I myself can be thrown into both categories on any given night.  Although I am trying to take a more logical approach to certain situations.  Albeit easier said than done.  Too many guys just blame our players, but too many guys here also give our players the benefit of the doubt entirely way too much.

Anyway, it's going to be fun watching Soup frustrate the Mets tomorrow.  Prediction?  Wilson goes yard in a big way.

by Pujols for MVP on Oct 19, 2006 12:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm skipping every comment made tonight
If LB says it's bad, then it's bad.

I will say this: This is a flawed team making a hell of a good run. Don't get down on them now... if you would have told me when they were losing their 7th game in a row for the third time this season back in September that they would be making it to game 7 of the NLCS and have Soup throwing against the ghosts of Darren Oliver Perez, I would have taken that every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

What a fun mothereffin' October. Drama, baby, just like life... peaks and valleys.
Live, Love, and Die.

Lets have some fun watching the game tomorrow night... no matter what happens, these boys gave us more moments then we thought we would get this postseason.

I hope we get another 9 days out of them.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Oct 19, 2006 12:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

agreed
I might be mad but this team is doing more than I expected and i should be happy that there still playing.

by tnek5 on Oct 19, 2006 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

definately
I'm already pumped up about it. This team is making one helluva run and I'm going to squeeze every last ounce of enjoyment out of it while I can.

by effin fisk on Oct 19, 2006 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't agree more
This team has definitely exceeded my expectations in the post-season. And I sure hope that they continue to exceed my expectations tomorrow.

by sirensofsilence on Oct 19, 2006 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's official
we are facing Oliver Perez on limited rest
Redbirds Fun
The Kentucky Democrat

by cardsfan84 on Oct 19, 2006 12:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

and soup on full
wonder how bad this will be for us;) jk

by tnek5 on Oct 19, 2006 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

can't we start the next game now
I can't wait another 24 hours.

by tnek5 on Oct 19, 2006 1:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sigh. It's painful to watch Rolen
I love the guy.  Man I do.   I delayed the start of our volleyball game during the first inning, but then I saw Rolen coming up with the bases loaded.

I hate to admit it.  I just sighed and looked at the ground.

I look forward to a rested Rolen next spring with a healthy, happy shoulder.

by sdrone on Oct 19, 2006 1:09 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

will was at the game
you can blame him for the loss according to Deadspin
Redbirds Fun
The Kentucky Democrat

by cardsfan84 on Oct 19, 2006 1:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i agree with the maturity level
of tonights posts
its one thing to be down
but to curse scotty out .... to just throw the team under the bus
it got old fast

i like the pitch out
the only thing i didnt like was looper in a close game

is that what they look like? psychos? let me tell you something...pyschos dont explode whhen sunlight hits them, no matter how crazy they are

by benstl on Oct 19, 2006 1:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow I was gone all
night and sad to see what I see here. I was bummed at the cards too, and even posted a joke about wonder who will pitch in game 3 of the world series...for the mets...I felt that had to win tonight, but all in all they did more than anyone thought..Beat the pads, and are even with the mets...

Lbros runs a good site here and is more positive than the STL forums, and the guy who runs them...

Go cards tommorrow make all the doubters pay

by punchinjudy on Oct 19, 2006 2:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

to lboros
i agree with you that this was one of the worst game threads of the year, but it also was one of the most important games of the year at this point, so everyone was on edge a bit more, not that they should be able to use that as an excuse, but there it is

as far as rolen goes, it seems everyone wanted him to be replaced by speezer, and while i wont defend rolens play in any way, what did speezer really do tonight? i dont recall him getting any hits in front of albert, but his not coming through seemed to go unnoticed while rolen had people wanting to run him over with a bus

was carp pulled too early? well, he had only thrown 76 pitches, but had they let him hit, and HE had hit into that double play, then came back out and got rocked, what kind of second guessing would there have been? a ton of it i am sure

the pitchout play: was it a smart move? well i have to think back to all the games where they had plays like that to end innings, and in some cases ballgames, either throwing out a runner stealing, or picking a guy off by yadi, and any chance you have of getting that third out without the batter being involved, you have to do it, and if yadi makes a bad throw, then he does, that is the chance you take

as far as this site goes, usually we have some of the best baseball conversation around, and it is all started and moderated by lboros, and for that we should be thankful, to have a place to bitch and gripe, ask questions, and enjoy our team, and like has been suggested, if ALL you want to do is post shit, with no reasons to back up what you say, go to the PD boards, where you will fit right in

the first thing i do when i get on the computer in the morning is come here, the last thing i do at night is come here, and i check it many times throughout the day, and i can honestly say that i value the opinions of many of the posters here

now lastly, i have been saying this since we clinched the division, whatever we do now is gravy, this isnt like 04 and 05, when we felt this team SHOULD win it all, nor is it like 02 when we felt it was a team of destiny, this team is a flawed team, instead of winning 97, 105, or 100 like our last three playoff teams, we only managed 83, now there were many reasons for this drop

injuries: mulder, izzy, edmonds, eck, albert, rolen, bigbie

poor performance: marquis, ponson, spivey

on the other hand, we had many unexpected contributions: duncan, wainwright, spezio, weaver (especially in the postseason), and wilson

all in all, win or lose tomorrow night, i am very proud of this team, maybe more than in the last few years, they may not be all-stars at every position, but whoever they put out there this postseason has played their asses off, and that is all that you can ask for,

GO CARDS!

by bigcardsfan5 on Oct 19, 2006 2:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Here is how the evening broke down
and it all happened in the span of about 10 minutes:

EVENT: Tony lifts Carpenter for Duncan: This is where you have divergent schools of thought.  

Not 'choosing up sides' but bare with me cause it makes it easier to explain:  

In my camp, Carpenter gets his curveball working in the 6th, only reaching 76 pitches with the bottom of the Mets order coming up who were 1 for 10 against him at that point. In a 2-0 game, you are a 'bloop and a blast' away from a tied ballgame with the heavy hitters coming up in the 8th.

In the other camp, this team had just gotten only it's 3rd hit of the night.  The bullpen has been very good for them this postseason, so we need runs, not defensive outs at this point.  It's getting late and we just got that 'bloop' Hardcore was talking about.  Better send up a big bat and get that blast.

Fair enough.  As I said, I lean more towards going with my Cy Young pitcher a little longer and letting my MVP later have a chance to tie it.  I can see the other side of the coin.

The result: Duncan hits in to an inning ending DP.

EVENT:Tony chooses Looper to replace Carpenter in the 7th.

Debatable choice.  As I said, the bottom of the lineup had been terrible all night.  Looper can be effective if he puts his head down and forward and just goes.  Any kind of lateral movement and he gets flustered.  This was a low leverage situation and shouldn't hurt the Cardinals.

EVENT:Spiezio makes error in rightfield.
If you give Scott Rolen an error on that shorthop at third, Spiezio knocking the ball out of his own glove should be considered the same.  In this situation, Spiezio shows why he STILL isn't a clear choice over Rolen.  Since his Game 2 performance, he has hit worse than Rolen and he clearly isn't better defensively.  I'm not saying Spiezio is bad, but I don't think it is as clear as everyone makes it out to be.

The Spiezio error/Tucker single is the beginning of the end for Looper.  He doesn't do well in pressure situations like this.  Should have been an early sign.

EVENT: The pitchout.  Two camps on this one:

One camp, distracts Looper who Hardcore just said was a mental butterfly and keeps him from being focused on getting Reyes out.  It wastes pitches and wastes energy for the team.

The other camp, mine, thinks it was a brilliant move on a 2-2 count, because in actuality, TLR guessed right.  Tucker was out by 5 steps, but Looper threw a tailing fastball and Molina sailed it into CF.  

The reason this isn't such a big deal is because if Looper DOESN'T get the call on a possible strike 3, Molina is throwing down to second to get Reyes anyway.

EVENT: 3-2 count to Reyes.  A bold move would have been to walk Reyes here.  Most are going to say "2 strikes on the batter, just get him out" and that makes perfect sense.  At the time, I was saying on the game thread for Looper to throw a curveball DOWN, a weakness of Reyes.  Waste one in the dirt.  If he chases, inning over.  If not, making the change.

Reyes asset is speed.  With Tucker standing in front of him at 2nd base, Lo Duca is forced to hit a ball into the gap (to the wall) to score both of the runs.  

Looper could have issued the pass and then taken a seat to Thompson.

EVENT: Reyes singles, Eckstein keeps it on the infield, run doesn't score.

This was a huge defensively play that the Cardinals should have been thanking their lucky stars for.  They had gotten through Reyes without giving up the run, Looper had made his mistakes but not hurt the team yet and now you can turn to a pinch hitter.  

Why Tony stuck with Looper at that point, I don't know.  It's the same type of managing earlier this season that saw him leave LOOGY's in against righties after they had just given up a hit to a lefty.  They didn't do their job and now Tony expects them to do something that ISN'T their job.

Looper was done. I know some will say hindsight is 20/20, but it really didn't take much to see that if Looper got Lo Duca out, it would be on a mistake by Lo Duca.

Lo Duca eventually singled and Tony finally made the move.

The crucial moves were:
Pulling Carpenter
Putting in Looper
The pitchout
Pitching to Reyes
Letting Looper face Lo Duca

I think the first two were mistakes, the 3rd was good, the 4th a tossup and the 5th a disaster.

Did it lose us the game?  No.  Not ripping Maine apart when we had the chance did that.  However, a different move in any of those situations and we may be looking at extra innings.

That's baseball, though.

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2006 2:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Some mistakes:
-Molina throws down to get Tucker on a ball 3 call.

-Johnson relieves Looper, not Thompson (scary thought!!)

-after Reyes single, turn to relief pitcher not pinch hitter.

and I proofread that damn thing! :P

Anyways, the other thing I left out about the pitchout is that something that has gotten the 2006 team to where it is now is being able to use Molina's arm to get unexpected outs.  Why not use it in that situation?

Walk your dog, not Pujols.

by Hardcore Legend on Oct 19, 2006 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know, I've thought about it...
and I've decided: the pitchout is a good play with any other pitcher on the mound.

If it's Carp or Babyface, it's a great call.  With Looper, though, he loses focus too easily.

So I'm taking back some of my earlier vitriol over the pitchout.

Obsessions of a Cardinal Fan

by Quietude on Oct 19, 2006 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pulling Carp
was not so much pulling Carp out on the mound, but being down two runs in the tops of the 7th and having a runner on.  Pitch hitting was the right call, just did not work out.  Duncan had a chance vs a righty and hit into the DP, sucks, but I still think it was the right call.  We can't win if we don't score, right?  Maybe if the game was tied or we were winning it would have been a bad call, but not down 2-0 when out bats looked like shit.

by riescher on Oct 19, 2006 6:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just don't get why people question
the pitchout.   Obviously, it was the right call.  THe odds just went against you on the throw to 2nd.  You play the odds, you get the out.  Once in a while, the odds won't work.

by sdrone on Oct 19, 2006 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

mets fan checking in...
just wanted to read what cards fans thought about tonite's game so i signed up...i was at shea tonite and i tell you what, when i saw looper in i just had to laugh, i KNEW he was going to blow it. after all, the mets had him before you guys did and boy did we suffer. i still have nitemares about all the games he blew for us. wagner does give him a run for his money, but he's not as horrendous as looper.

and don't be so down on rolen, i can tell you he gets plenty of respect from ny fans. he had a bad nite, so what? he may come thru in the clutch in another game, wait and see.

anyway, i give the cards credit for taking this to 7 games, never thought it would go this far. but then again, when you think about it, the mets really only have 2 legitimate starters right now, and no team has made it to the WS with that kind of rotation, so i would be feeling pretty good if i were a cards fan right now. if this game were in st. louis, i'd almost concede defeat right now...but there is that wacky "shea stadium" factor, and the fans here are definitely the X factor, i dunno, i guess it comes down to who wants it more.

good luck and let the best team win. whoever it is, they are gonna have their hands full with detroit, that's for sure.

looper sucked when we had him, too

by metsbeatcardsin7 on Oct 19, 2006 2:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good luck to you, too
A 7 game series? The best team wins. I have no complaints about how tonight ends. Both teams deserve to be here, 27 outs away from an NL championship. And whoever wins tonight deserves to play for the crown.... neither team has taken any assemblence of a shortcut.

What a slugfest... What drama.

This series has been a freaking boxing match. Maybe, at it's best Forman v. Holyfield? At it's worst? Scrrech v. Horshack.

Ahhhh, fuck it...

May the best team win, bro.

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Oct 19, 2006 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ive got severe heartburn
 and its 2 am ,i shaves my beard took off my red boxers shot my wifes cat and took my first drink in 6 years!! man i love this site cause st louis fans are the best but all this negetivity sucks!!  yea theirs alot to bitch about damnit but this is our team and we cant stoop to 0the level of new york fans who boo their players at every oppertunity carp was our best shot bottem line but we got a real lousy lefty pitching against us tommorrow( oh yea thats a BAD thing)  and scotty and jimmy baseball gotta get a hit sometime dont they??the whole team kinda took a dump on us tonight but i watch baseball every dauy for 6 months out of the year and we are still one game away from a chapionship!! comon cardinal nation if we all smile as one and start thinking in japanese we can still do this!! its going to be a long day today but tonight WE WILL CELEBRATE on their field!!  hang in there everyone it aint over yet   damn i gotta go find a new cat for the wife now

by CCERUTTI on Oct 19, 2006 4:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree man...
however there comes a time when the "loyalty" to vets (eg Rolen and Juan) trumps winning.  I just cannot understand how Duncan did not start in last night's game.

We had our chances early and could not come up with anything.  Bases loaded and no outs in the ealry innings?  2nd and 3rd in the ninth and no outs and no smart outs unitl So hit the double with two outs.

It is just hard to watch guys get on base and see Rolen, Juan, and Ronnie get non-productive outs.

I hope Suppan can pitch a gem tonight and the Cardinals can solve the lefty riddle that has shut their offense down all season.

Good luck and goodnight.

by riescher on Oct 19, 2006 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It Ends Tonight
Game 7 NLCS. Who among us actually thought this Cardinals team would make it this far? Not me. I gave up on them in July. After that horrid June. After we lost Mulder. I just knew it was not our year. But you know what? A funny thing happened after the 3rd 7 game loosing streak of the year. The playoffs. In the playoffs anything can happen. And whats happened is our Cardinals have played their collective butts off. Save for Game 4 when the bullpen blew it, you can argue that the Cardinals have been the better team in this latest instalment of a 7 game series. And we Cardinals fans know all too well that in a 7 game series, its not the team with the best regular season record that wins. Its the team that flat wants it more, gets the key hits, the key outs, and the out of nowhere performance from its subs. So effin Taguchi is 4-4 people with 2 HRs, 1 Double, and 4 RBI's in the playoffs. Kenny, TJ, WonderKid AW, where did they come from? Dream Weaver has been our best pitcher. Seriously? Unbelievable. How did that happen? With Prince Albert on one leg, Scotty with one arm tied behind his back, ECK needing his own personal MASH unit waiting on high alert in the dugout for him. And finally Carp being less than Carp like. It is a miracle that this Cardinals team is playing in Game 7 of the NLCS.

What I am trying to say is, no matter the outcome of Game 7, what we have witnessed this October will go down in history as one of the greatest Cardinals playoff teams EVER. We had everything stacked aginst us. All of the ones "In the Know" picked us to be swepted out of the first round. Yet here they are. Defying all odds. Pushing the best team all season long in the Nation League to a Game 7. They have almost done what was thought impossiable. But here they are. Who would have thunk it?

That being said, tomorrow we will see if they have finally leared how to conquer a lefty. In fact, if one gets in trouble, there is another one waiting in the wings who just shut this offence down for 6 innings the other day. If history has taught us anything, its going to be a long, hard day tomorrow. For whatever reason, this team cannot hit a lefty. We have on the mound for us a pitcher who is far more comfortable in the new home of Busch III. His record on the road is less than stellar. The mets lineup can destroy him if his control is off by the smallest of margins. But, in Game 3 he shut this same mets team down with 8 masterful innings. Can he do it again? Can he rise up and send this Cardinals team to the World Series, where once again they will be heavy underdogs? He's done it before. October of 2004 he beat the best pitcher most of us have ever seen. But that was at home. This Game 7 is far from the comfort of Busch III. Flushing Meadows NY is a dump filled with angry NY fans who think, no demand that their team crush all opponents on their way to a World Series crown. They will throw everything their deivent little minds can think of at our players. They have never witnessed their team loosing a decisive game in a postseason series. And its not something they want to see. Those fans will be at their best, or worse depending on which side you are pulling for. Its going to be hell. And I guess this Cardinals team likes it that way. After all, with the season they had, nothing came easy. And tonights Game 7 will be anything but easy.

How are we going to beat the two lefty's waiting for us? When recent history has shown that a sure fire way to beat the 2006 Cardinals is to have a lefty pitching for your team. How can they possiable throw all that history aside and do the impossiable? How is SUP going to win on the road when the great Carp could not?

I don't have any of the answeres. The only thing I do know is,

IT ENDS TONIGHT

Give'em hell boys.

Make us all proud.

Go Down Swining.

GO CARDINALS

IT ENDS TONIGHT

From THE MAN, to Gibby, to The Wizard, to Albert the Great. Cardinal Tradition lives on.

by gdm426 on Oct 19, 2006 6:13 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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