McCarver Completely Inaccurate in Pitching Analysis

by Jhusk on Oct 13, 2006 8:43 PM EDT Comment 16 comments

Tim McCarver proved he does not have adequate knowledge of proper pitching mechanics early in Friday night's game. After Carlos Delgado went yak off Carpenter in the first inning, McCarver kept going back to the fact that Carpenter was "leading with his elbow," and how that's bad, and that Carp needs to "get on top of the ball." The only thing is, that's not possible. Every pitcher "leads" with his elbow. The number of motions that, put together, make up the pitching delivery, is referred to as the "kinetic chain." The rotation of the hips leads the rotation of the shoulders, which brings that arm around. At the moment of maximum shoulder rotation, the arm is at "full external rotation of the upper arm." The elbow lays back flat, which stretches the muscles, ligaments and tendons of the elbow to the maximum. This is when a pitcher is "leading with his elbow." At that stretch, the body, as a reflex, sharply contracts those muscles. This motion brings the hand forward and delivers the ball. So, for all you young pitchers out there, don't listen to Tim McCarver. If you try to throw and "not" lead with your elbow, 1) you will lose tons of velocity, and 2) open yourself up for injuries to the shoulder. "Leading with the elbow" is a natural occurrence of the proper kinetic chain. The problem MIGHT be, is the LEVEL of the elbow. I didn't notice, but if Carp's elbow is LOWER than normal, that can lead to a loss of velocity and movement. THAT is the proper problem that McCarver should be referring to.

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Haha

Yea Tim is a joke. Remeber the game against the Padres when Carp gave up two runs in an ugly first inning... McCarver said "Carp has great stuff already" after seeing the first ground out. He then proceeded with several hits and 3 walks. McCarver is brutal, but Sweet Lou is just as bad.

No one beats Ozzie Smith though...remember that dumb fishing net he always had on Channel 11 broadcasts to catch fouls?

by DuncanDipper on Oct 13, 2006 9:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No offense..

but does it really matter what McCarver says?

by cardsrul on Oct 14, 2006 12:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sadly it does...

Unless you want to watch your TV on mute for 4 hours, or listen to the play 3 seconds before it happens on your tube by tuning into ESPN radio... I hate to say it, but it does matter b/c it's four hours of sheist.

by DuncanDipper on Oct 14, 2006 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In his defense

Tim McCarver's Not a Kinesiologist; he's just a guy who spent a lot of time around pitchers in his day. Talking to pitchers--also not kinesiologists--about their problems, and the mistakes they were making in their delivery, he probably made use of a lot of terms for the sake of convenience, and mutual understanding. A pitcher and a catcher might understand "leading with the elbow" to mean something totally at odds with what it actually means, because of who and where they are.

That said, that thing he said about Carpenter being "dialed in" shortly before he walked in a run a while back was genuinely asinine.

by DanUpBaby on Oct 14, 2006 4:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh, McCarver

An annual rite of October... remembering how bad Tim McCarver is and wondering why he still has a job. Seriously, have you ever thought to yourself or heard someone else say "Great! Tim McCarvers calling the game tonight! I can't wait to hear what he has to say"?

Also, while I haven't found Family Guy funny in a few years, this clip always makes me smile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euERw9D5qm8

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Oct 14, 2006 5:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

For me,

unless the color guy is absolutely horrible(read: Lou Pinella), he's just background noise. And actually, unless it requires an explanation of a play or injury, I tune the pbp guy out on many occasions. In fact, for most of last night's game, I had the tv muted and was listening to the new rock station in my area.

by cardsrul on Oct 14, 2006 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Steve Lyons

was fired today for a bizzare statement to Lou Pinella about stealing wallets and talking spanish.

Considering all the jiberish McCarver has said in the past, how does he still have a job?

Cheers

by Alxfritz on Oct 14, 2006 6:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

McCarver says:

the reason why catchers have such low batting averages is because after catching 6 innings the catchers hands go numb. Apparently whatever Catchers mitt Joe Mauer uses is going to be a very big hit next season. McCarver is a retard.

by Willie51 on Oct 14, 2006 8:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

McCarver was a catcher

he's completely stupid about many things, but I think I'd trust him on the subject of "what it's like to be a MLB catcher."

And Mauer is the best hitting catcher in many long ages, anyway.

by Valatan on Oct 14, 2006 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wish

Dude, I'd love to get to listen to Joe Buck and Tim McCarver. I've got two guys speaking spanish that have never played, I'm sure. I've tried listening on the MLB radio while watching but the radio is at least one pitch behind. And have you tried listening to Shannon in awhile?

by Birdos in Mexico on Oct 14, 2006 11:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re:

I've got two guys speaking spanish that have never played, I'm sure.

FYI...Cookie Rojas, the analyst played in the majors for 16 years, including a very brief(23 games) stint with the Cards in 1970. Jaime Jarrin began broadcasting with the Dodgers in the 50s. So, yeah...they know baseball.

by cardsrul on Oct 15, 2006 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks for pointing that out cardsrul

rojas made an all-star team; he also managed the angels for a season (1988) and has coached and managed for numerous clubs. basically he has spent his entire life in the game

by lboros on Oct 16, 2006 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i take it back

rojas made five all-star teams, including 4 in a row in the 1970s . . . . here's his career page at baseball reference

http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rojasco01.shtml

by lboros on Oct 16, 2006 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i often

i wonder if tim is pissed at the cardinals organization
the way he bashes them and rarely says anything positive about them astounds me....

is that what they look like? psychos? let me tell you something...pyschos dont explode whhen sunlight hits them, no matter how crazy they are

by benstl on Oct 15, 2006 8:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Some say

that he is still mad about getting traded to the phillies

by Valatan on Oct 16, 2006 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I see what McCarvver means

but perhaps what he should say is "Carp is leading with his shoulder" or something like that.

At point X, the hand should be on top and starting to come down. But if you get your shoulder too far forward for whatever reason (fatigue? Frustration?, trying too hard?), you hand comes over the top say, a matter of inches closer to the plate than it normally would.

So your hand stays "under" the ball too long.

I know I do a similar thing in volleyball if I lead too much with my elbow when spiking. Slightly different mechanical thing - instead of releasing the ball at the wrong point, my hand is contacting the ball at the wrong point. But the effect is the same - I drive the ball too much forward and not enough down, and the ball sails a bit.

by sdrone on Oct 16, 2006 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs