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Around SBN: Vinny Magalhaes Claims Ebay Sale of M-1 Challenge Belt

Game 137 Open Thread: September 4, 2005

i noted yesterday that the astros seem to have jason is'hausen's number. they do not have chris carpenter's. over the last two years carp is 4-1 against them with a 1.37 era; he's held the 'stros to a .201 batting average over that span. he's been particularly hard on the astros at minute-maid park, where he's 3-0 against them with a 0.84 era and a .206 average against. in the course of extracting that data i found this boxscore from last season -- a third carpenter-clemens duel, every bit as compelling as this year's two showdowns.

did last night's game settle the cy young issue? as much as the nation's sportswriters worship clemens, their bias must have its limits. carp now has pert near twice as many wins as the rocket and has beat him twice head to head; he leads the league in wins, complete games and innings pitched, and is second in strikeouts and shutouts. clemens only tops him in one category, era. clemens does pitch in a tougher park than carpenter and has suffered much worse luck; while many have noted that houston's weak offense has cost roger a number of wins, it has been largely overlooked that all three of the cards' unlikely 9th-inning rallies this year -- the 7-run comeback vs the reds may 2, eckstein's walkoff slam vs the braves in early august, and the 5-run rally against the giants on the last homestand -- got carp off the hook for a loss. not that 20-7 is a bad record, but it isn't quite as gaudy as 20-4. . . . .  you could argue that carp, on the merits, is a 20-7 pitcher and clemens, with decent run support, would be an 18-4 pitcher or thereabouts. you could factor in the ballparks, and that would work in clemens' favor too. and if houston wins the wild card, that will probably also win roger some votes -- some people will credit him for being a difference-maker who got his team over the top, while dismissing carp as just another cog in a dominant machine. i think there are voters who want so badly to recognize clemens one more time that they will jump through as many hoops as necessary to do it. should carp get dinged a time or two during the september tune-up season, and should clemens get hot and lift his win total to 15 . . . . . i just don't think it's over yet.

but if carp holds his form and/or clemens finishes with, say, 14 victories . . . well like i said, sportswriter bias must have its limits. it has to . . . . . doesn't it?

in perusing carp's game log at mlb.com, i spotted something kind of intriguing. in late may and early june, carpenter briefly started getting the ball up. in his first 9 starts, he got 87 groundouts and only 35 flyouts, a ratio of 2.48:1. in his last two may starts and first two june starts, he actually got more flyouts (27) than groundouts (24). he didn't pitch badly -- far from it, he was 2-2 with a 2.25 era -- but batters hit .272 off him in that stretch, vs. .216 for the season as a whole. immediately after that string of four games, carp started getting groundballs again and became unhittable, giving up just 40 hits and 9 runs over his next 84 innings. it could just be random data, but it also could indicate that somebody spotted something -- a mechanical thing, a pitch-selection pattern -- and carp made an adjustment, which in turn made him a cy young candidate.


marquis             rodriguez
10-13, 4.42        9-6, 5.94

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Another thing
that will work against Carp, as ridiculous as it sounds, is that he's not flashy and doesn't bring attention to himself. Writers don't like bland in their athletes.

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2005 10:57 AM EDT reply actions  

The Coveted Double Dip

With nothing in the way of pennant race action to get worked up about, a natural outlet for Cardinal Nation energy is speculation about whether Carp will win the Cy Young, and whether Albert might take home the MVP.  Good piece by lboros, and it got me thinking...might Carp's greatness hurt Albert's chances, or vice versa?  It seemed plausible that people might be reluctant to give one team both awards.  At the same time, it also seemed plausible that the bias toward winning teams (reflected in the Cy Young Predictor's Victory Bonus) might favor a double dip. Strictly for grins, I looked at the historical winners, and below is a list of all occasions when the Cy and the MVP were given to people (or one person) on the same team.  I also included the team's record that year as well as their final position in the standings.


Year    MVP                      Cy Young                Team Record

2002    Miguel Tejada        Barry Zito                103-59 (1)
1993    Frank Thomas        Jack McDowell          94-68 (1)
1992    Dennis Eckersley    Dennis Eckersley      96-66 (1)
1991    Terry Pendleton      Tom Glavine              94-68 (1)
1990    Rickey Henderson    Bob Welch            103-59 (1)
           Barry Bonds           Doug Drabek           95-67 (1)
1988    Kirk Gibson            Orel Hershiser           94-67 (1)
1986    Roger Clemens       Roger Clemens        95-66 (1)
1984    Ryne Sandberg       Rick Sutcliffe            96-65 (1)
           Willie Hernandez     Willie Hernandez      104-58 (1)
1982    Robin Yount            Pete Vuckovich        95-67 (1)
1981    Rollie Fingers          Rollie Fingers           62-47 (1*)
1980    Mike Schmidt          Steve Carlton          91-71 (1)
1974    Steve Garvey         Mike Marshall           102-60 (1)
1971    Vida Blue               Vida Blue               101-60 (1)
1968    Denny McClain        Denny McClain       103-59 (1)
           Bob Gibson             Bob Gibson           97-65 (1)
1967    Carl Yastrzemski     Jim Lonborg          92-70 (1)
1963    Sandy Koufax         Sandy Koufax         99-63 (1)
1961    Roger Maris           Whitey Ford             109-53 (1)
1960    Dick Groat             Vern Law              95-59 (1)
1959    Nellie Fox               Early Wynn           87-67 (3)
1957    Hank Aaron            Warren Spahn         95-59 (1)
1956    Don Newcombe      Don Newcombe      93-61 (1)


The only thing I conclude from this list is a very strong correlation between team success and double dippin'.  Of course, it's dangerous to infer causation from correlation, so I'm not sure what's truer: (a) team success influences voters or that (b) great individual players cause great team success.  I'm sure it's a bit of both, but in any case, it bodes well for the Cards.  Finishing with the best record in baseball plus sweeping the MVP and Cy Young awards would be pretty special.  And as an added bonus, it might cause the rest of the league to say, in the words of George Costanza's funereal tormentor Timmy, "Next time just take one dip and END IT!"

by Hummingbird on Sep 4, 2005 11:15 AM EDT reply actions  

The '59 White Sox
won the AL pennant and faced the Dodgers in the World Series.
I think you listed the record of '60 White Sox...

by salvomania on Sep 4, 2005 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yadi's batting cleanup again.
Not that rare anymore.  Anybody know how many times he's done that so far this year?

by cyclone on Sep 4, 2005 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

ESPN splits say
Molina's batted 4th 4 games prior to today, 16 at-bats. If TLR's really buying into Molina's one-year L/R splits, I may scream.

I'm ready for Reggie Sanders to return.

by Rob H on Sep 4, 2005 2:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Fun with math
I know it doesn't mean squat (particularly right now, with only 2 hits through 5 innings) but the last 5 batters in our lineup today have an avg BA of .304; that's something you don't see every day.

by cyclone on Sep 4, 2005 3:29 PM EDT reply actions  

On that subject
I've stated many times how ignorant I am about baseball and that includes having a thorough understanding of the logistics in creating a good batting order. But it seems to me that by having Edmonds or Walker bat second, and by filling the lower lineup with guys who have good BA's (especially when Marquis is pitching), that LaRussa is counting on having a higher percentage of men on base by the time the second batter comes up in the order (this obviously only works after they've gone threw the rotation once.) This might also throw a curve to pitchers, who weren't counting on the higher possibility of facing a powerful slugger, in the number two spot, with two or three men already on base.

Anyway, I expect (hope) someone will explain why this is a bad idea. Or maybe everyone already knows this unbeknownst to me? But it seems to make some sense to me anyway.

by rob is back on Sep 5, 2005 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

FYI...
Marquis is at just 69 pitches after 6...

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2005 3:46 PM EDT reply actions  

A sprinkler head
just went off in the cards pen. looks like Old Faithful out there, lol.

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2005 4:13 PM EDT reply actions  

89 pitches
after 8 innings for Marquis.

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2005 4:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Izzy's Warming
I hope Jason stays in, tho.

by bellyscratcher on Sep 4, 2005 4:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Me too
Can't imagine either of us saying that a month ago...

by cyclone on Sep 4, 2005 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Sweet
game by Marquis. Is he out of his funk? Let's hope so.

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2005 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

way to go jason!
complete game, always in control, never walked a batter....beautiful.
dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas

by Neth on Sep 4, 2005 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Over the last
two games, Marquis has thrown:
189 pitches; 142 for strikes
18 IP; 7 hits; 8 K; O BB; 1 ER  

Today, 71 of 98 pitches were strikes.

Not too shabby for someone who was ready for the scrap heap 2 weeks ago.

by cardsrul on Sep 4, 2005 4:47 PM EDT reply actions  

and the pitch counts
have been under 100.  marquis has been dominant!
matty fred is a weblog.

by matty fred on Sep 4, 2005 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

It'll take at least
one more kickass start for me to believe Marquis has really turned the corner and can be counted on, but if it's true--it couldn't happen at a better time. Let's keep hoping the pen just had a couple bad days and they'll figure out the problem this month--or more likely, the starters all keep or find their first-half selves and continue to go deep into games. The hitters have picked up enough to do their part--and just wait till Albert gets hot again!

by rockin redbird on Sep 4, 2005 5:31 PM EDT reply actions  

tomorrow--
Soop vs The Francheese in Busch. C'mon boys, time to show the Flubs why you're 20 games up on them.

by rockin redbird on Sep 4, 2005 5:37 PM EDT reply actions  

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