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checkmate

burnett to the jays, per tuesday's toronto globe and mail:

Jays open vault and get Burnett
By JEFF BLAIR
Tuesday, December 6, 2005 Posted at 3:10 AM EST

Dallas -- The Toronto Blue Jays landed their second marquee free agent of the off-season last night, agreeing to terms with right-handed pitcher A.J. Burnett on a five-year, $55-million (all figures U.S.) contract that leaves the team poised to significantly upgrade its offence.

According to major-league sources, Burnett, who was 12-12 and had a 3.44 earned-run average with the Florida Marlins last season, will receive $7-million next season, including a signing bonus, and will be paid $12-million for the next four years of the deal. The contract is pending a physical examination, which Burnett is scheduled to undergo today in Tampa.

Burnett is scheduled to arrive here in time for an afternoon news conference.

General manager J.P. Ricciardi met yesterday afternoon with Darek Braunecker, the agent for Burnett, and Mark Rodgers, Braunecker's partner and legal counsel. Sources familiar with the negotiations said that Braunecker went into the session knowing that the Blue Jays would not increase their offer and that much of the meeting was spent going over ancillary details.

The St. Louis Cardinals were said to have offered a four-year package worth $45-million, but they would only agree to a fifth year as an option. The Washington Nationals entered the picture last Sunday, but sources said Burnett's decision came down to either the Blue Jays or Cardinals.

Burnett cheered for the Cardinals as a child.

Joining the Blue Jays would reunite him with pitching coach Brad Arnsberg, who served as his mentor while they were with the Marlins.

Coupled with the signing of B.J. Ryan to a five-year, $47-million contract, the Blue Jays have set themselves up to use pitching depth -- particularly Miguel Batista -- to pursue a bat for the middle of the order.

They will talk to the Nationals about Brad Wilkerson, as well as revisiting discussions with the Milwaukee Brewers about Lyle Overbay and the Texas Rangers about Kevin Mench. ESPN reported that the Blue Jays have talked to the Philadelphia Phillies about Bobby Abreu, but that would be a cost-prohibitive move.

so, now what? first of all, lay off brian walton. the guy has been taking a beating in all the chat rooms for having posted ? prematurely, and inaccurately ? late on sunday night that the cards were on the verge of landing aj burnett. he apparently made the exact same mistake in 2004 vis-vis renteria, and people are drenching the guy in bile. nasty, nasty stuff.

we are all frustrated: the cardinals came up short again, and again the team must fill its roster holes under difficult circumstances ? little trade leverage and a shriveling free-agent market. the fans need a punching bag, and walton would seem to richly deserve that honor. but keep in mind that several mainstream reporters had much the same story (based on their own sources) as walton did. just a few hours after walton?s story went up, joe strauss said on bernie?s radio show that burnett "was the cardinals? to lose"; geoff baker of the toronto star filed a story at noon yesterday describing how "word flowed through the lobby of the Wyndham Anatole Hotel ? site of baseball's annual winter meetings ? that Burnett was about to sign with the St. Louis Cardinals". granted, walton alone reported certain details ? eg, that burnett was en route to st louis for a physical ? that proved to be wrong, and he used the phrase "agreed to terms," an extremely unfortunate (and unwarranted) choice of words. but if it?s fair criticism to say that walton failed to exercise proper journalistic restraint, it?s also fair to say that anybody who accepted his report uncritically failed to read with the proper degree of skepticism ? particularly since walton?s premature renteria report in ?04 is apparently so notorious.

also in walton?s defense, something important changed on monday morning, 10 hours after he posted his article: the blue jays finally offered the guaranteed 5-year deal that burnett and his agent had sought for so long.

Star-divide

that changed the whole dynamic of the negotiations; if brian?s article was 80 pct true when he posted it, the blue jays? offer rendered it 0 pct true. but the offer came ex post facto; can?t blame walton for not knowing about it in advance.

like a lot of observers, i was slow to pick up on the significance of the 5th-year guarantee ? which was really stupid, since i wrote a whole post about it over the weekend. i convinced myself that the burnett team considered toronto?s offer a mere bargaining chip, something with which to wheedle a 5-year deal out of jocketty. if the cards simply wait out burnett?s bluff, i believed, their 4-year-plus-vesting-5th offer will probably suffice. i wasn?t the only one with that opinion, but it looks pretty foolish in retrospect.

i do not know brian walton, and i?m not suggesting that he should receive a free pass here. he screwed up, and hence he?s fair game. but keep it in perspective. don?t hold walton solely responsible for the fact that you had your hopes raised and then dashed. we were excited not because of what brian wrote but because we knew that as of last wednesday night the cardinals had the best offer on the table ? an advantage they held until about noon on monday ? and that burnett wanted to play in st louis. when the jays came in with a better offer, the cardinals had the chance to match it; they chose not to.

questions:

  1. should the cardinals have caved in and guaranteed the 5th year?
  2. how do they get their needs met?

if i were in charge, i would have guaranteed burnett 5 years. the way the market is going, 5 yr / $50 is not an outlandish deal. to quote myself,

with byrd off the market, all of the best remaining pitchers either [are] represented by the toxic scott boras (washburn weaver and millwood) or [are] of the been-there-done-that variety (matt morris). supposedly matt already has a 3 yr / $ 24m offer in hand from san francisco, and in the wake of loaiaza's signing . . . . morris's price might go even higher. so what's riskier -- a pitcher in decline at $8.5m per, or a pitcher whose best years may still lie ahead at $10m? byrd's signing may have tipped the market to the point that burnett at 5 / $50 looks like a bargain -- the best deal the cards are likely to get.
i?d also say this: of all the pitchers on the market, only one is a potential postseason difference-maker: burnett. those who now remain reek of that #3-starterness that serves the cardinals very well in the regular season but leaves them disadvantaged in october pitching pairings. add in the fact that the cardinals have a) a new stadium; b) a new revenue stream from their radio deal; c) about $30m in play money from the new tv deal; and d) two consecutive postseason paydays, and i think the cardinals flat cheaped out. if you?re not willing to overspend a little now, then when? and it?s not as if a 5-yr guarantee would have violated some law of nature ? nor even a law of sabermetrics. if the cards? final offer was really 4 yr / $45m, as the globe+mail article suggests, then what on god?s green earth held them back from offering 5 yr / $50m? or 5 / $52m?

insurance, per the post dispatch. in-flipping-surance. toronto's got sabermetricians calling the shots; the cards have got actuaries . . . .

nonetheless, this decision can easily be redeemed if jock makes wise use of the dollars set aside for burnett. which brings us to the second question: what would a wise use look like? i see a range of options:

  1. modified plan A: sign an accomplished starting pitcher, then trade marquis for an outfielder or bullpen help
  2. plan B: trade marquis but don?t allocate large $$$ on a fifth starter; fill the slot from within the organization or off the free-agent scrap heap
  3. plan C: keep marquis and buy outfielders / 2b / relievers at retail on the free-agent market
i?ll be taking these in turn as my schedule permits ? and assuming jocketty doesn?t move more quickly than i do.

Update [2005-12-6 11:24:22 by lboros]: by the way, there is non burnett content!!! directly below, if you haven't seen it

0 recs  |  Comment 49 comments

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January 20, 1981
It's like a hostage crisis just ended. Where's Ted Koppel?

by Rob H on Dec 6, 2005 5:18 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

GOOD!!!
BURNETT'S INNING PITCHED SINCE 1999:

41
82
173
204
23
120
209

MATT MORRIS' INNING PITCHED SINCE 1999

0
53
216
210
172
202
192

FRANKLY, I'D RATHER TAKE A FLYER ON TONY ARMAS, TRADE FOR A GOOD OF, AND SEE WHAT OTHER OF/SP IS AVAILABLE COME JULY 31!!!

by TOLAXOR on Dec 6, 2005 7:27 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Moving on...
While I am pretty disappointed, we all have to move on.  Didn't the Cardinals have some tepid interest in Milwood last year when he was available?  Just a gut feeling, that I have pulled out of a very dark place, but I think Milwood or Morris will be offered a deal next.  Maybe we can grab Grudz back away from the Mets too.  This is about to get very interesting.

by sdelek on Dec 6, 2005 8:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Also...
Devi Cruz was AWESOME in Xbox's World Series Baseball 2003 as a member of the Padres.  Can that give us some hope about the guy with a career OBP under .300?

by sdelek on Dec 6, 2005 9:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

damn, damn, damn
This is just bad all around. lb's right - if signing Burnett really was the team's #1 priority, the move on which all else hinged, and if Jock was willing to go this far, they should've offered the damn fifth year. The "Best Baseball City in America" Discount only goes so far (as the Renteria mess should've confirmed). As others have noted, when the Loaizas and Byrds are getting $7-8 mil per year, a 29-year-old flamethrower at 5/$52 mil is a bargain - especially, as lb notes, when you are talking about the only guy who has the stuff to (potentially) do for the Cards what guys like Roy Oswalt have done to us in recent postseasons. What's more, if you sign Burnett and he performs to expectations, that makes it easy to let Mulder walk after 2006... imagine how much Mulder will command in this stupid market.

I'm not sure Jock & Co. can "easily redeem" this by "making wise use of the dollars set aside for Burnett". If by "making wise use" we mean cobbling together the necessary parts to return to the playoffs, that's one thing; I have no doubt Jock and TLR can accomplish that. If by "wise use" we mean getting that final piece or two that will significantly boost our chances of postseason success - well, I don't think that's possible with what's left on the market.

The first thing I'd do now is re-sign Reggie so we only have one OF hole to fill; signing the likes of Jacque Jones after this soap opera would be even more depressing.

by DCRedbird on Dec 6, 2005 9:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

And we better pray
that Little Reyes is everything we hope he'll be!

by DCRedbird on Dec 6, 2005 9:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Reality Check
5 years, 55 mil is a lot to give to a guy with POTENTIAL. He has yet to be a dominant, consistent starter in the big leagues. He's had a history of injuries.. Sure he has great stuff....but come on guys, the Cardinals may have dodged a huge bullet here.

If you are looking for a pitcher with great stuff, try looking in our own backyard. Reyes throws in the mid nineties too, and has an amazing breaking ball. His ceiling maybe isn't as high as Burnett's, but neither is his salary. A guy like Reyes with electric stuff  and a 5:1 K/BB ratio career in MiLB maybe every good as Burnett this year and here on.

Last year Walt was so desperate for pitching he traded Barton and Haren for Mulder, and as it turns out Haren may be just as good as Mulder.  We need to stop chasing big dollar names and look to in our own backyard.

by erik on Dec 6, 2005 9:27 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

you may be right, erik
Burnett may be the next Darren Dreifort, in which case we will all be thankful that the club held their ground. On the other hand, our "backyard" isn't exactly chock-full of exciting prospects right now; which means sometimes you've gotta be willing to gamble on a guy like Burnett -- especially if you are in win-now mode, as the Cards seem to be. And I'd rather not rely on young Reyes to be a world-beater right away. A cheap, above-average #5 starter with future ace potential, yes; a guy who can give you 220+ innings and be a postseason difference-maker ... well, that's a lot to ask of a 24-year-old with a history of arm trouble who's pitched all of 13 innings in the show.

by DCRedbird on Dec 6, 2005 9:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

reyes v burnett
i know where you are coming from, i'm not expecting reyes to be a world beater either, but on the other hand i didn't expect burnett to be the difference maker some thought he could be. he's only gone over 200 innings twice, and has a bad history of injuries.

i know reyes has an injury history himself, and is inexperienced, but if he doesn't pan out it isn't going to cost the cardinals millions of dollars. i just think the money/commitment was too high on a guy who is sought after for "potential".

by erik on Dec 6, 2005 11:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

walton
we can't really savage Walton too much, Cardinal bloggers like us, repeated his assertions on our sites. "Real" reporters, like bloggers, have obligations to get readers information. They compete with other reporters and outlets, and forced to go with the info they have available to them.

Don't savage walton, Jocketty and the cheapskate owners on the other hand...

by VanRam on Dec 6, 2005 9:42 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well...
to be honest, this isn't too big of a surprise. The whole shebang was going on way too long and reeked of bad juju. Part of me is disappointed and part of me agrees with Eric above. We'll see if AJ is the next Bob Gibson or the next Kerry Wood. I would have enjoyed seeing AJ in Bird Red right up until he hit the DL and maybe missed 2/3 of the season--for five seasons. There was an awful lot of hand-wringing last year about Edgar, and we all know how that turned out. No use dwelling on it--Walt will find a way. The off-season aint over, and who knows what mid-season trades may happen. Who/What would it take to get Zito? If we're done chasing hurlers, I'd get back in the Abreu sweepstakes posthaste. It's a bummer now that we may be glad for later, or we may regret it, but it's certainly NOT the end of the world or the end of 06. Keep in mind that Walt works in mysterious ways and often comes up with something completely out of the blue just when it looks like he's done.

by rockin redbird on Dec 6, 2005 9:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Burnett
I don't think I can be upset with Walt or the "cheapskates" for not wanting to committ to 5 years.  Sure, it's only one extra year, but what if Burnett is this year's Chan Ho Park or Darren Dreifort?  Come 2009 or 2010, Burnett could have easily been an albatross rather than an anchor.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to have had him, and thus the flexibility to trade Marquis for hitting.  But you can't fault a team for having standards that they stick to for long term planning.

by Robb on Dec 6, 2005 9:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

What next?
There are still a lot of options out there for the Cards. I think Abreu looks a little better now.

As far as starting pitchers go: Bedard is available. Washburn and Millwood should get a look. What about a one year deal for Jamie Moyer?

Relief: Dotel, Looper, Mesa, Todd Jones.

Second base... Aurilla?

The important thing here is to move on quickly. I wish we would have gotten Burnett, but we didn't. I also think he's getting paid too much. I sure as hell don't want Jones for the kind of money the is being thrown around either, but maybe for three years $17M.

At the end of the day I trust Walt to get some players that will help this team. Why? Because he always does.

by Evil on Dec 6, 2005 10:09 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

As the Dandy one
Don Meredith used to sing...."The party's over/let's call it a day". Time to move on...

by cardsrul on Dec 6, 2005 10:36 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Toronto connection
Ok, I didn't know about the pitching coach connection.  For the life of me, I couldn't think of a reason people would go to Toronto, a freaking .500 team.   Except for the cash, of course.

A couple of years ago, I thought Milwood was hte man.  I've got to look at his stats; he might be the type of guy Duncan could work magic with.

by sdrone on Dec 6, 2005 10:44 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't mind Millwood
but I just saw a link on Primer to a Seattle Times article. It quoted a major league executive as saying Boras would want Burnett-type money for Kevin based on his superior career won-loss record. Once again, it's a case of paying for a player's past and not his future.

by Matt on Dec 6, 2005 10:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Toronto

For all the people wondering "how anyone can want to live/play in Toronto" I suggest a visit.  The place is MUCH more cosmopolitain than St. Louis (not too hard to be) and in fact was labeled "the world's most diverse city" by the UN a few years back.  It has a vibrant scene that caters more to a wild boy (I'm assuming) like Burnett than the Lou.  A shift from the sexy nightspots of Miami to the hopping clubs of Toronto won't that much of a change for him.  Forgoing those clubs in favor of what St. Louis has to offer, in terms of flash and dash, would be a sacrifice Mr. Tattoos and Piercings perhaps didn't feel was worth the extra $$$$$ he would give up to play in St. Louis.  Not everyone deems "playing close to home" as ultra-important.

But what do I know, maybe the guy stays home each night and plays XBox.  He might not even know or care what city he's in.

by flynn on Dec 6, 2005 11:04 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

i agree
was there for a wedding five years back and was extremely impressed. it's not even that cold --- on roughly the same latitude as boston, minneapolis, detroit. i mean ok it's cold, but it's not arctic-circle cold.

by lboros on Dec 6, 2005 11:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Toronto
Yeah, it's a great city. I preferred Montreal when I visited, but the baseball in Montreal these days leaves a little to be desired.

by levistahl on Dec 6, 2005 11:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Toronto
is definately a cool, fun city. I believe what people were talking about has nothing to do with dissing Toronto as a place in and of itself. What people are talking about is the fact that in St.Lou the Cardinal players are worshipped like gods. Even people who don't follow baseball (I've heard tell of them, but never met any--could be an urban legend) know who the players are. Hearing a conversation about Cardinal baseball in St.Lou is as common as hearing a conversation about the crummy weather. I've only been to Toronto twice, but both times had a hell of a time finding ANYBODY who gave a rat's ass about the Jays. In fact, several people I tried talking to about them basically laughed and gave a "who cares" kind of shrug. Now, I realize that's not much on which to judge a city's interest in baseball--but I can guarantee that AJ would've dug the region-wide adoration in St.Lou. That's what players love about the place and that's what people here are talking about.  

by rockin redbird on Dec 6, 2005 1:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

All very nice...
But he won't buy a house there.  I'd bet he'll have an apartment/condo there during hte season and live elsewhere during the offseason.

by sdrone on Dec 6, 2005 11:07 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

True,
but 81 home games for five years does mandate a lot of time spent in one place, and nobody has more free time than starting pitchers....

by flynn on Dec 6, 2005 12:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dontrelle Willis?
According to Newsday Dontrelle Willis is available:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sbyanks064541230dec06,0,1675289.story

--------
While the cost-cutting Marlins still are refusing to lower their asking price of Robinson Cano for Juan Pierre, they have begun to tell teams that every player on their roster - including Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera - is available for the right price.

The Yankees threw out the names of Cano and Chien-Ming Wang in passing as possibilities for Willis, the Marlins' dynamic lefthander, but the Marlins told them it would take a lot more than that, according to a person familiar with the negotiations.
---------

If you really wanted to bet the farm on next year, would Reyes, Wainwright, and something else be enough to get them interested? We're kind of short on cheap young talent (except Molina) so I don't know if we have enough to land him or not, but idle speculation is always fun.

by mikedallas23 on Dec 6, 2005 11:31 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

it's a fantasy
but for dontrelle i would send them reyes, wainwright, lambert, thompson, stu pomeranz, and anybody else they might want.

by lboros on Dec 6, 2005 11:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Fish
haven't asked for much of anything in return for these guys, really. So, unless Selig wakes from his coma and does something about the fire sale, you could probably get Willis for a song.

by cardsrul on Dec 6, 2005 11:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Money
Unlike the other dumpees, Willis isn't making any kind of money. It's a fantasy as lboros said.

by Rob H on Dec 6, 2005 12:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

willis and cabrera
must be getting excited about the upcoming season

by lboros on Dec 6, 2005 12:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Does it strike anyone else as telling that . . .
the Yankees seem more than willing to trade away Cano and Wang?

If these guys were anything close to high quality quality players, there is no way the Yankees would be dangling them as trade bait.

by bailorg on Dec 6, 2005 1:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

quite the opposite
Actually, from everything I can gather, the Yankees are extremely reluctant to part with Cano, perhaps irrationally so. Thus, the apparently consensus that they wouldn't trade Cano and Wang for Edmonds.

It's just that Willis -- given his age, low salary and obvious talent -- is darned close to being the single most valuable pitcher in baseball to have on your roster. Thus, the willingness to trade Brian Gunn for him, though we'd do so hoping we could re-sign Brian as a free agent in a couple of years.

DCGreg

by DCGreg on Dec 6, 2005 2:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's not pooh-pooh the cost
of insurance. The Cards were already going out on a limb at four years. The extra year would have meant being on the hook for $11 million worth of pitching and the possibility of getting nothing in return for it. It's one thing if a position player goes down and you can sub for him. It's quite another for a pitcher.

They guy has pitched in the majors six full years and has a record of 49-50. Not only is his record weak, consider those 99 decisions should be more like 145 decisions (24-25/year) for a healthy pitcher. The guy is not durable, and a flamethrower that doesn't throw isn't worth a bucket of spit.

Let's stop treating this guy like he is Roy Oswalt. There are others.

by Red in Chicago on Dec 6, 2005 11:54 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Others?
What others are available for 2006 with AJs skill set that cost only money, and not talent?

by flynn on Dec 6, 2005 12:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Darren Dreifort
and Matt Morris.

by Rob H on Dec 6, 2005 5:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey,
I'll volunteer to go to Florida in exchange for Dontrelle.
Brian Gunn

by briangunn on Dec 6, 2005 12:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

By the way...
...to get over the blues about losing Burnett, I've been thinking alot this morning about Mike Hampton.
Brian Gunn

by briangunn on Dec 6, 2005 12:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

a reasonable point
but not entirely analogous. hampton's deal was 8 years for $125 million ---- can you flippin' believe that? hilarious --- $18m a year. anyway, the overall package was 150 percent higher than what burnett went for, and ran 3 years longer. . . . much, much crazier than 5 /$50 for burnett.

also, hampton was trying to pitch in coors field. . . .

i think darren dreifort is the most applicable analog for what a burnett disaster might look like.

by lboros on Dec 6, 2005 12:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hampton
is a balm to my bruised feelings, not a legitimate parallel to what's going on with Burnett.  I hope it didn't come across like I was trying to make that case.
Brian Gunn

by briangunn on Dec 6, 2005 1:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ah, got it
i misunderstood . . . . been so long ago i forgot the cards came in 2d that time too

by lboros on Dec 7, 2005 11:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not so fast
Even if you were included in a deal, you probably wouldn't make the big club.  Their AAA team is the Albuquerque (wow that's a lot of u's) Isotopes and their AA team plays in Zebulon, which sounds like it's on another planet, but is supposedly in North Carolina.  Then again, they have a single-A team and a Gulf Coast League team both in Jupiter (at Roger Dean no less).

by john vb on Dec 6, 2005 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes,
Zebulon is, indeed, in NC. It's pretty much in the middle of nowhere.

by cardsrul on Dec 6, 2005 3:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Or maybe
Kevin Brown?

by Robb on Dec 6, 2005 12:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if
this is sour grapes or not, but here is Burnett's baseball-reference page and the list of pitchers most similar to him though age 28.  The closer the number is to 1000, the more similar the pitcher:

Don Larsen (972)
Gary Gentry (971)
Ruben Gomez (970)
Jose Guzman (969)
Walt Terrell (967)
Joaquin Andujar (967)
Steve Renko (965)
Chuck Estrada (964)
Joe Sparma (963)
Erik Hanson (962)

Larsen is famous for the perfect game in the World Series, but his overall career was pretty average.  Joaquin Andujar we all know 'round here.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps AJ's potential ain't that much, either, though you can definitely take this as a sour grapes post too!

matty fred is a web log.

by matty fred on Dec 6, 2005 1:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

NOW
the speculation of trading Edmonds makes more sense...

by VanRam on Dec 6, 2005 1:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well sure
Edmonds, Wainwright and Reyes for Willis, right?

by STLEdge on Dec 6, 2005 1:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

The Rocket
Is Houston the only place he will consider to play? Jocketty should fly down there a make a pitch, he would probably win 20 games and would have a shot at another CY and World Series. I know he's pondering retirement, but I think I recall Larussa and Roger bonding during last years All-Star game.
Retire #51

by Retire 51 on Dec 6, 2005 1:48 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Doubt it
If he comes back, I doubt he gets either of 20 wins, 30 starts, or 200 innings.  He's awesome and his work ethic is legendary, but he may finally be starting to break down.

by sdrone on Dec 6, 2005 8:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've heard
He's more interested in coming back, making some money and winning next year. Not just making money. But winning. I could see him coming. If not Roger, then we'll have Zito. Mark my words.
Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Dec 7, 2005 1:26 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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