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trash talk

precious little time today for an aft'noon post. i am editing an article about heated battles that occurred in rural Colorado during the Depression / Dust Bowl involving the Works Progress Administration. the agency came bearing gobs of federal money to employ the unemployed and help tide these stricken communities over; but such assistance reeked of charity to some people and violated the famous western code of rugged individ'lism.

the communities themselves had to apply for WPA funds to build a new school or sewer system, and enormous fights erupted --- within families, among close friends --- over which was the lesser evil, starvation or "disgrace."

not as important nor as enjoyable as the sanders-v-encarnacion argument, i will grant, but it diverts me nonetheless.

so i have nothing to add for the moment, but rich lederer has plenty say over at baseball analysts. he has posted a cogent, non-stl-centric look at the cards' offseason to date, and it's called pass the trash. lot of discussion follows in the comments there, also over at the think factory, where the primates are screeching at each other. the gang at bernie's has taken notice, too. . . . . .

as you head off to those destinations, take this thought with you: if the cardinals had made one meaningful upgrade somewhere on the roster --- a stud outfielder, an ace pitcher, even tom gordon as a new setup man --- would you accept downgrades at other positions more readily? i think that's the piece that is missing here; just one strong addition and i might understand the downgrades as necessary payroll adjustments to accommodate the offsetting improvement elsewhere on the roster.

such a move could still occur and make all of us nattering nabobs change our tunes in a hurry. so c'mon walter, please shut us all up . . . . .

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One addition
I would be a lot more at ease if another starter was added, via trade (Vazquez) or otherwise.  Someone who would have a higher strikeout ratio to go with Carp.

Spivey is a good deal and the rest would be fine.  Look at the ChiSox - Konerko and a bunch of middling performers with good pitching spells a World Series title.

To me, upgrading the starters is the most crucial.

by BozCardsFanSF on Dec 27, 2005 6:41 PM EST reply actions  

i think you are right
bozcards. let me ask you something: do you think the cards made a wise, prudent decision to back off on aj burnett, or do you share my opinion that this was the time to roll the dice on him?

by lboros on Dec 27, 2005 6:57 PM EST reply actions  

Roll the dice
Burnett has a mid to high 90's fast ball and has good stuff, just has to harness it.  If you can pitch a no-hitter but give up a number of walks in the game, that's testament to your ability, but also to the fact that you don't have good command.

He was a power arm, young and I wish the Cards would have made it happen.  I'm not as much a fan of Millwood and wouldn't have made a case for him or any other arm out there, excpet maybe a roll of the dice on Dotel.

In the end, it is all about the money to the players, but I believe Burnett wanted to come to St. Louis, that's why they waited for the Cards' final counter before going to Toronto.

Seeing that and the Red Sox adding Beckett just frustrates me to no end.

by BozCardsFanSF on Dec 28, 2005 9:05 AM EST up reply actions  

we see it the same way
and it added to the frustration when the trade talks over javy vazquez broke down because of (what else) money. i have mixed feelings about the guy, but in a short series he might have been the element they've missed the last two years.

by lboros on Dec 28, 2005 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Holy
Jamoley. I leave for a few days and look what happens. Though I had no internet to keep up with the news, I was in the St.Lou metro area (Illinois side) and got many an earful from somewhat stunned friends. The consensus seems to be (and I agree) that Spivey was a good deal but Juan...not so much. After catching up on the last few posts, it seems that's the attitude here too. Yep, if this was the best Walt could do for the OF, we shoulda just kept Reggie. WTF?? Ah well, guess you were right about the continued shoulder shrugging and head scratching, LB. And I wholeheartedly agree with this main post--ONE killer deal will make everything else seem okay. You and Boz are also right in positing that this big move better be an ace starter. They shoulda rolled the dice on Burnett, but that's done. So what's left? Millwood is now gone too. I keep hearing about weird Zito deals, and I've been trumpeting him for awhile--only problem is what do we have that could pry him loose? Jed? I dunno, but that should definately be priority one now that they've shot the wad on mediocre position players.

Hope everybody had a great holiday--I sure did. My lovely and supercool wife got me my favorite present this year: an autographed Bob Gibson baseball. What a woman!!  

by rockin redbird on Dec 27, 2005 7:28 PM EST reply actions  

welcome back rockin
and hope you had a great holiday.

by lboros on Dec 27, 2005 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Great
to be back, but what's with the horrible red threads and the all-of-a-sudden oversized page? Not to whine, but yow!

by rockin redbird on Dec 28, 2005 3:46 AM EST up reply actions  

whine away
i need to hear this stuff so we can get it fixed. don't tell me, you are using internet explorer, right?

by lboros on Dec 28, 2005 8:35 AM EST up reply actions  

For some reason...
I still doubt this is the team we take to either spring training or past the trade deadline.  It's still a division winner with Edmonds-Pujols-Rolen, but I doubt much past that.  Jocketty has left himself too much payroll flexibility to just sit on his hands: he's he'll have something up his sleeve yet.  He is under the short-stick payroll level of 90 million with an impact player needed---sounds familiar...
A diamond is just a lump of coal that performed well under pressure

by joker24 on Dec 27, 2005 10:14 PM EST reply actions  

WPA
FDR was the greatest President our country has ever had.  

by titolandrum21 on Dec 27, 2005 10:59 PM EST reply actions  

How long until spring training?
Does the season start tomorrow?  Not sure why we're already judging the offseason and it isn't even January yet.  ???
Cards fan stuck in Chicago.

by dhaab on Dec 28, 2005 12:54 AM EST reply actions  

Don't forget
that the biggest addition to next season's team may very well be Anthony Reyes. IMO the guy is definitely a meaningful upgrade to the rotation and he has every bit of the potential that A.J. Burnett has. granted right now it is just that - potential - but that is basically what Burnett is going on, and potential just got him $55 million. if everything works out well this year I can see him being a very good #2 behind Carp. anyone else remember Prior saying Reyes could win 20 games for the Cards? he might not pitch quite up to that level next year, but in the following years I wouldn't be against him. just have to hope Ponson doesn't push him to the 'pen, or worse yet, back to the minors.

still would've liked to have A.J. though. i never bought all the talk about him being a huge injury risk, i think most of that was a result of the Marlins leaving him out there 'til his arm fell off. i doubt he'd rack up as many complete games as he did with the Marlins the year he got hurt because the Card's would manage him better. i believe better managing will drastically reduce the chances of him getting hurt again.

they overpaid for looper and the juan deal was just insanely stupid, but since they have a little wiggle room in terms of payroll, i think they could still pull something off. probably more likely that it happens at midseason rather than the offseason.

but if they keep Reyes in the minors/bullpen, then its time to question the competence of management.

by CougarCard on Dec 28, 2005 2:13 AM EST reply actions  

Agreed
I hope like you do that Reyes get a shot.  This rotation has a good number of pitchers that get batters to beat the ball into the ground.  I'd like to see someone other than Carp be able to add a few MPH and get a strikeout with runners on base in a tight game.  Reyes is our only shot.  Ponson doesn't have it, and Suppan, Marquis and Mulder are known commodities (although every once in a while Mulder throws a 10 or 12 K gem).

My only concern with Reyes is the TLR/DD track record with young pitchers.  

by BozCardsFanSF on Dec 28, 2005 9:11 AM EST up reply actions  

This is really weird...
All In The Cards is reporting that The Birds are giving Vina another shot:

http://cardinals.mostvaluablenetwork.com/

Never thought I'd see that.

?????????

by rockin redbird on Dec 28, 2005 4:27 AM EST reply actions  

hinkster
lboros - your typically sound analysis has taken an offbeat turn.  My how we jump on Walt quickly.  I'm proud that Walt doesn't jump on the stupid bandwagon like everyone else just because its the offseason.  We all knew it was a down free agent year yet teams are spending like its a Hall of Fame auction.  Yes, we had to overpay for a couple parts and no we didn't land an allstar but we can afford to "pass the trash" or basically stand pat with our core intact because our core is so good.  (plus we got younger and cheaper) Thanks Walt for protecting the future.  ps - don't forget, the mid-season sell-offs are the real market these days

by Hinkster on Dec 28, 2005 6:49 AM EST reply actions  

hinkster, i'm only judging
walt by his own stated goals. he and tony made it clear back in november that the priorities were
  1. upgrade rotation
  2. upgrade bullpen
  3. get younger and cheaper in outfield
now you tell me --- have they achieved any of those objectives so far?

by lboros on Dec 28, 2005 8:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Jose Contreras
That's all I need to say.

by I Bleed Cardinal Red on Dec 28, 2005 7:56 AM EST reply actions  

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