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Around SBN: Tiger Woods, Tony Romo Grouped Together At Pebble Beach

cards sign juan encarnacion

3 years / $15m. just announced on bernie miklasz's radio show. my knee-jerk is: dumb move. more to come.

Update [2005-12-23 9:19:22 by lboros]: encarnacion will turn 30 in march. he had a career year last season: .287 avg was two points off his career high (19 pts above career avg); .349 obp beat his prev career best by 19 points (and 33 pts above career avg); .447 slugging was his 3d best mark, close to his career avg.

his .796 ops in 2005 was juan's career high, 33 points better than his previous best. his career ops is .756.

.796 ops is a career year. man, this is a waste of money.

encarnac'n does, however, replace grud'k vis-vis long-last-name ability.

Update [2005-12-23 9:28:34 by lboros]: encarnacion has played most of his career in pitcher's parks (florida, los angeles, det), but unfortunately his splits do not reveal him to be a pronouncedly better "away" hitter. in fact, last year he hit much better in pro player than he did in other parks.

nor does he have a good platoon split --- his ops last year vs lefties was a healthy .866, but the previous two years he posted .600 and .736 against lefties.

Update [2005-12-23 9:41:48 by lboros]: juancion's VORP last year was 28.3, about what grud'ks was last year (23.1). that long-last-name thing again. walker and sanders both had comparable VORPs (29.1 and 27.5, resp'vly) but they only played half-seasons. so this guy is worth 1/2 one of those guys . . . . and remember, last year was juancion's best year.

other VORP comps of interest: jason lane (28.2), kevin mench (23.7), brad wilkerson (22.1), jacque jones (17.7), jeromy burnitz (17.5), so taguchi (15.2). . . . . baseball prospectus' rate2 puts him at a few runs below avg as a rightfielder.

per win shares, he ranked 19th among nat'l league outfielders with 19 --- 17.8 hitting, 1.6 fielding. similar win-sharers at his position included colorado's matt holiday (19), moises alou (20), geoff jenkins (22), luis gonzalez (22), junior (22), and wilkerson (23). just below him were jose guillen (18), shawn green (18), burnitz <17), klesko (17), ken lofton (16), and jason lane (15).

Update [2005-12-23 9:47:2 by lboros]: his list of comparables at baseball-ref'nce is interesting but not nec'ssly encouraging. lotta former redbirds. #1 is sixto lezcano. but these guys aren't really very similar. sixto's career on-base was .360; juancion's is .316. in his lone year as a card, sixto put up a .376 obp.

#5 is george hendrick, one of my all-time fav?ite cards ? but here too the comparison doesn?t hold. silent george posted pos+ figures above 100 (ie, above league avg) for 12 consec years between age 23 and age 34. his high ops + was 144; his low 107. juancion has only cracked the 100 barrier twice in seven years as a regular ? 113 last year, 101 in 2003. he has been been in the low 80s, which is a truly disastrous score, three times in 7 years.

comp #6 is andy van slyke --- also not similar. slick had a .349 career obp, and his lowest ops+ was above 100 in ops+ in 10 of 11 years between 22 and 32; low ops+ was 96.

i'm through for now. i'm disgusted. this acquisition sucks.

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good googly moogly
this is what we get for making fun of the cubs fans. Did Chuck LaMar somehow manage to take over the Cardinals?
http://www.playahard9.blogspot.com/

by erik on Dec 23, 2005 9:27 AM EST reply actions  

Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!
If we're going to overpay for someone, couldn't it at least be for someone who is above league average at his position?

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Dec 23, 2005 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

ok
In my opinion...its easy to criticize moves. We've all done it. What's harder is to come up with a viable alternative. The market is what it is.

Personally, I would have preferred Matt Lawton. But I did like Encarnacion over Jacque Jones. I didnt want to trade Marquis.

So outside of Lawton who is a better option?

to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

by beanocook on Dec 23, 2005 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

How about
Keeping Sanders? He got 2 years, 10 million from the Royals. Granted, he is 38 so you have to expect some decline but I still think he will post better numbers the next 2 years than Juan. According to BP Juan's EQA's over the last four years were:
  1. .263
  2. .265
  3. .245
  4. .279
Reggie over the last four years:
  1. .274
  2. .299
  3. .270
  4. .297
Even if Reggie declines a bit I still think he is likely to be a little better than Juan over the next two years.

by mikedallas23 @ Viva El Birdos on Dec 23, 2005 11:28 AM EST up reply actions  

jeromy burnitz
is just as good a player, but you can get him for 1 yr / $3m. better option

kenny lofton --- .392 obp  last year / .373 career obp. signed for one year / $3.5m. better player, less money --- better option. i dislike lofton, but that's my own problem . . . .

platoon of taguchi / rodriguez --- would prob'y hit slightly below league avg, slightly worse than juancion, but would cost $3.5m less. better option

so they've spent $5m on a guy who barely improves the team over the platoon (gooch / jrod) they already had. that's a waste of $5m.

those are better options even without trading a pitcher. if we allow for a trade, there are a whole range of better options to go after --- jason michaels, mench, wilkerson off the top o me head.

but the gist of the argument is --- you don't have to spend $5m for a guy of this ability. if you pay a guy $5m, he should be an upgrade over the $1m players on your roster. encarnacion isn't.

by lboros on Dec 23, 2005 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

i don't know
I think the guys we had could have been just as good as Juan E.

Gooch and Rodriguez were safe bets for .750 OPS'

by Ryan Van Bibber on Dec 23, 2005 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah i guess it
serves us right. cubs get jones; we get ponson and juancion.

by lboros on Dec 23, 2005 9:29 AM EST reply actions  

matt lawton
now really looks to be the steal of the year.
http://www.playahard9.blogspot.com/

by erik on Dec 23, 2005 9:37 AM EST reply actions  

yeah
this is dumb dumb dumb

by lboros on Dec 23, 2005 9:42 AM EST reply actions  

the line that says it all
"Encarnacion looks good in a unifrom, plays right field well, and occasionally hits a mistake a long way. He's also one of the worst regular right fielders in baseball."-last year's BP.

Please tell me this isn't happening.

http://www.playahard9.blogspot.com/

by erik on Dec 23, 2005 9:47 AM EST reply actions  

Status
Was Juan arb eligible or non-tendered or just a regular free agent - tell me we "gave" up $$ for this guy and not also a draft pick!!  I assume the Cards were able to extract some "Reggie Sanders odd-year magic"  before he left and can now inject it into Juan so he at least slugs near .500?!  Blah!

by nimbus74 on Dec 23, 2005 10:01 AM EST reply actions  

I really don't get
this one, especialy at $5m.  I was willing to give Bigbie a chance, see if that scout was right about him.

by sdrone on Dec 23, 2005 10:19 AM EST reply actions  

Salary
So this puts us at about $86.3m plus maybe Spivey, right?

DeWitt should be happy with that.

by sdrone on Dec 23, 2005 10:24 AM EST up reply actions  

next year
I hate looking at next offseason when this one isn't even over, but this could set up nicely for a big trade in July or to make a run at some of the big FA names next offseason when DeWitt realizes he has more money to spend.

by Just Rope Ball on Dec 23, 2005 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

a big boost
we are gonna have a ton of cash next year. add the money from the new stadium that they have to spend plus mulder's contract will be off the books, and so will marquis', and i think edmonds might be if we dont exercise his option. so i would like us to go after andruw jones or torii hunter to play center, and go after zito or some other big name SP to fill one of those spots or go after 2 big ones since suppan will be gone too (i hope we re-sign him though). next year could be our best chance to put together the best team in a while here in stl. think about it down the lineup.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 11:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Ehhh
It's an okay move. A league average outfielder being paid the going rate for average outfielders. Of course I wish the Cards could have an all-star at every position, but that's not going to happen.

by scootermcgrew on Dec 23, 2005 10:37 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Is he really that bad?
Do we really have to have much more than a .750 - .800 OPS guy in this lineup?  That's really what this guy is and that's what we needed.  You really need to look at his last three years over his "career" OPS.  His age 27 season he was a .760 OPS guy, his age 28 season he was poor but INJURED (shoulder injury, ask Rolen how he hit last year with one of those) and his age 29 season was .796.  Is it beyond the realm of imaginantion to consider him a good bet to be in the high .700s?  The economy is cyclical, and it looks like we are ramping up for another increase in salaries with the new internet money, et all.  This may look like a bargain next year...  Love the site, first time poster.  Just remember to stay positive.  The team may not win 100 games, but will do well yet again.

P.S.  We didn't have to give up a draft pick.  The Marlins didn't offer him arbitration...  This is MUCH better than Hunter...

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will... Repair (our) losses, and be a blessing to us." Walt Whitman

by MRCARD on Dec 23, 2005 10:37 AM EST reply actions  

but smart organizations don't pay
$5m a year for three years for league avg guys. smart organizations find those guys for $500k.

by lboros on Dec 23, 2005 11:30 AM EST up reply actions  

The problem is...
There aren't a lot of $500,000.00 guys out there (and those that are have quite a few question marks).  There are a lot of teams vieing for the same players.  Sometimes you HAVE to overpay for league average.  Did we get our "cornerstone outfielder"?  No.  Did we add a few wins to the equation next year?  Yes.  If we were a '90 win team' before the signing, it probably gets us in the playoffs.  Once we get to the playoffs, it's all a crapshoot anyway.  

Everyone is so high on Lawton, but what do we know about him?  1.  He has had decent career OBP numbers and they were above .350 last year (look at his combined numbers, not just pits).  2.  He will be 34 next year and he hasn't been that good in OPS the last 5 years(.750, .787, .763, .741, .718).  3.  He's going to serve a 10 game suspension for being caught using steroids.  

He says that he "only used them to get over an injury".  What if he isn't?  What if he's really a .700 OPS guy on steroids all these years?  What if he's a guy that gets injured a lot, but uses steroids to stay healthy?  Sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story...

"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will... Repair (our) losses, and be a blessing to us." Walt Whitman

by MRCARD on Dec 23, 2005 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Rafael Palmeiro
That's one...
"I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game. It will... Repair (our) losses, and be a blessing to us." Walt Whitman

by MRCARD on Dec 26, 2005 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

The money
is a concern but he is only 29, almost 30.  That is youthful compared to our outgoing outfielders and Edmonds.  

I will give him a chance.  We need a good #6, #7 hitter like him.  

by wcheuk on Dec 23, 2005 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

damn guys, chill out!!
i think walt still as something up his sleeve. prosportsdaily.com is saying that the cards are interested in shawn estses too (i diont think we should do that move). to get back to the juancion point, i think walt is still going to do something big, i dont know why he would be getting all these starters and keeping them all, i think he is still going to trade marquis. i say we trade marquis and another player to detroit for craig monroe and fernando rodney (a fireballer out of the pen) that would shore up the OF and bullpen. i still like encarnacion a lot.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 11:03 AM EST reply actions  

Not a bad lineup...
Eckstein (R).... .720 ops? (career .713, .758 in '05)
Edmonds (L)... .900 ops? (career .927, .918 in '05)
Pujols (R).... 1.040 ops? (career 1.037, 1.039 in '05)
Rolen (R)... .820 ops? (career .890, .706 in '05, 1.007 in '04, .910 in '03)
Rodriguez (L)... .780 ops? (.818 in '05/career)
Encarnacion (R)... .780 ops? (.756 career, .796 in '05)
Luna (R).... .740 ops? (.706 career, .753 in '05)
Molina (R)... .690 ops? (.662 career, .653 in '05)

Only 1 guy up there had an OPS below .750 in '2005 (not including the injured Rolen) and that was our young, still-developing-as-a-hitter catcher.

I'm not sure any other team in the NL can say that about their projected starting eight....

by salvomania on Dec 23, 2005 11:31 AM EST reply actions  

i dont think luna will be the 2b
i think we are gonna sign spivey or harris to play there and let luna get one full year up here in the majors
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Strictly anecdotal
But I've never thought Edmonds did as well hitting #2.   I'm hoping we put Rodriguez there and put Edmonds at #4 or where I think he does best, #5.

by sdrone on Dec 23, 2005 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree
100%, sdrone. JEd's numbers in the 2 hole were awful.

by cardsrul on Dec 23, 2005 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

i move luna or our new 2b
to the 2 hole and move edmonds to clean up and push everyone else down a slot and switch encarnacion and j-rod when it is a lefty on the mound.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, you're right...
His 3-year splits have him absolutely mashing out of the 3 and 5 spots, and being a little less productive---but still around .950 ops---from his most-often-used 4 spot. He's "only" .861 in the 2 hole, that's a pretty severe drop.

by salvomania on Dec 23, 2005 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Rolen
Salvo, why so low on Rolen?
DCGreg

by DCGreg on Dec 23, 2005 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

No reaction yet...
OK, I just found out about this, so I haven't really had time to digest it. What I can say is that I remember reading the same reactions exactly a year ago when Eckstein was signed. And we all know how that turned out. Overpayed? Maybe. Lousy signing? Who knows? Lets wait and see...

by cardsrul on Dec 23, 2005 11:33 AM EST reply actions  

Sixto Leczano
has got to be one of the best baseball names ever.
http://www.playahard9.blogspot.com/

by erik on Dec 23, 2005 11:39 AM EST reply actions  

What's Next?
Does this mean we trade Marquis for another outfielder?  Or do we save Marquis for a trade in July?  If so, where do we put Marquis?  In the pen?  And where doe we put Reyes?  Memphis again?

If Jocketty still has a trade up his sleeve, I'd be pretty excited about Edmonds, Encarcion, Mench outfield.

So says, The Dude

by Titus Pullo on Dec 23, 2005 12:15 PM EST reply actions  

i do not want to see mench here
he has that great hitters park there in texas where he hit most of his homers, then moving to probly a pitcher's park, i dont think it is a good fit, i think craig monroe would be the best fir since he played in the pitcher's park in detroit and still produced solid numbers.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

With
Encarnacion in the fold, Jock can afford to wait till mid-season to see if Sir Sidney pans out before he decides to trade either Marquis or Suppan. I think a lot of it depends on whether Bigbie is projected as a the "everyday" LF.

by cardsrul on Dec 23, 2005 12:29 PM EST reply actions  

JUAN BETTER THAN LAWTON
WHATEVER MODEST GAIN IN RUN PRODUCTION LAWTON WOULD HAVE ADDED, HE SUBTRACTS IN THE FIELD...

THE BAD PART OF THIS IS THE 3 YEAR DEAL, BUT AT $5 MILLION A YEAR, HE'S EASILY TRADED...

by TOLAXOR on Dec 23, 2005 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

i know you don't like lawton
but is encarnacion really $4m a year better?? i sure don't see it . . . .

by lboros on Dec 23, 2005 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I still say
part of the Lawton thing revolves around the steroid use. It would be hypocritical on the team's part, yes, but I can see it.

by cardsrul on Dec 23, 2005 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

stats
Hey..Im a stat guy as much as anyone here. But lets not OVERDO all of the projections the guys at hardball times, BP, etc. do.

I would like to see how accurate they are each season when it comes to their projections and actual output.

Personally, I didnt want to see Reggie Sanders anymore. I will guarantee here that at the end of 2006 Juan Encarnacion will have better numbers than Reggie Sanders...Im talking total numbers.

Is Juan great no? But Im guessing if he sits versus the toughest righties and JRod plays then Im guessing his numbers will be better. Tony is the master of "matchups" so I would be surprised if Juan's numbers dont improve.

to give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

by beanocook on Dec 23, 2005 1:56 PM EST reply actions  

Aww Man, Bingo
I woke up late on this eve of christmas eve hoping to see Harris under the Cards' tree. Unfortunantley, I come to find instead that its the next coming of Tino with a little speed and a lower OPS. T-I-N-G-O. When I said, "All I want for Christmas was a corner OF." I should have specified for at least a decent one.

Give me Johnny Rod or give me death,
I'm just going to hope for the best.

by onephinepeace on Dec 23, 2005 2:56 PM EST reply actions  

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