Viva El Birdos: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: World Soccer Digest for Soccer Fans!

happy humbugging

the 2006 team is more or less complete at this point. juancion is the new rightfielder; gooch / jrod / bigbie will share left; and junior spivey (it looks increasingly likely) will be signed to play 2b. if they don't land spivey, luna and miles will platoon there. jason marquis is probably staying put for now, leaving last year's rotation intact except for morris's slot, which reyes or ponson will take. the bullpen still has one opening, which may or may not be filled by felix rodriguez. here's the probable lineup:

eckstein ss
edmonds cf
pujols 1b
rolen 3b
juancion rf
spivey 2b
bigbie lf
molina c

or maybe they bat spivey 2d, with edmonds 4th rolen 5th juancion 6th. when j-rod's in the lineup, he could hit 2d; if bigbie raises his obp enough, he might suffice in that slot too.

here are the 2005 and 2006 rosters, side by side.

2005 2006
molina c molina
pujols 1b pujols
grud'k 2b spivey ??
eckstein ss eckstein
nunez 3b rolen
sanders lf bigbie
edmonds cf edmonds
walker rf juancion
carp sp1 carp
mulder sp2 mulder
marquis sp3 marquis
suppan sp4 suppan
morris sp5 reyes / ponson
is'hausen closer is'hausen
tavarez rp1 looper
al reyes rp2 fe'x rodri'z ???
thompson rp3 thompson
king lrp1 rincon
flores lrp2 flores
eldred mopup mateo
jrod of jrod
taguchi of taguchi
nunez if cruz
mabry ut luna
diaz c2 bennett

to be honest and blunt, i don't see a single position where the cardinals have meaningfully improved. if they sign spivey and he is healthy, he should be a modest upgrade over grud'k; two ifs, but it could happen. if rolen comes back healthy, he'll upgrade 3b, or at least restore it to its former high standards; and molina will probably contribute more with the bat in 06 than he did in 05, so that's an upgrade too. but look at the other side of this: they've lost boatloads of production at both corner outfield positions. edmonds is a year older and fading, and eckstein is due to fall back a ways toward his career norms after a stellar 2005. pitchers no longer will look at the cardinal lineup and shudder.

in the bullpen, the looper-tavarez transaction is a wash; rincon-king ditto. they still don't have a replacement for al reyes, who was their best reliever last year. the rotation has the same personnel, but we can't assume that carpenter will have a 2d straight cy young-type year, nor that suppan will have a third straight career year; he's due to regress. marquis will probably pitch better, and morris's slot we don't know -- if it's taken by ponson the cardinals lose some value; if it's taken by reyes, they gain some.

the cards came into this offseason looking to add power arms to the rotation and the bullpen and youth to the outfield. they did accomplish the last of these three objectives, but at the cost of ability; they got younger but also less productive. they have not achieved the bullpen / rotation upgrades they sought; haven't regressed, but haven't gotten any better. no doubt jocketty will still be out there looking, and if a deal comes along he will pounce; but we prob'y shouldn't hold our breath. the payroll is pretty fully committed; moreover, jocketty has only made one trade since the mulder deal 12 months ago -- king for bigbie / miles.

for those of you calling me a grinch -- and i strongly object to that, by the way; i consider myself much more of a scrooge than a grinch -- here's a perspective you'll prob'y like up to a point: i still think this looks like a playoff team. the cardinals have a strong lineup core and a very good rotation, and they play with intelligence and intensity. i thnk they're prob'y a 90- to 95-win outfit even if they don't make any other changes.

what i do not see, however (bah humbug), is a championship team -- not unless they make another couple of impact acquisitions. you can disagree w me, and feel free to, but i look at it like this: the 2004 team got swept in the world series, and the 2005 team got outclassed in the nlcs by a team that went on to get swept in the world series. as currently constituted, the 2006 cards do not improve upon those standards; we're going backward.

i'm gonna let this be the weekend discussion thread. a scrooge i can't help but be, but i can say: merry christmas, happy hanukah to all, and may 2006 bring you health and prosperity.

0 recs  |  Comment 59 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

what i think is going on
i think they are just picking up these lousy free agents and waiting for july to pounce on guys that play for shitty teams (like torii hunter). if they get him and a reliever i think this team will be great.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 3:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

nice job erik
way to get that, i think this is an upgrade over grudz, i think he will have about 13 homers with 53 rbi's (that's my prediction if he is batting in the 2 slot and if he plays everyday). was a good pick up
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 3:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Spivey
I found this quote rather strange:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2270028

------
The Cardinals said Spivey would compete for the second base job, which was vacated by Mark Grudzielanek's departure, with Aaron Miles and Deivi Cruz. Grudzielanek signed a free-agent contract with the Royals this offseason.

"With Spivey, Miles, and Cruz, joining our team this offseason, we feel that we have a number of strong candidates not only for second base, but also for needed depth off the bench," Jocketty said in the release.
------

Why no mention of Luna being in the mix at 2nd? Have the Cards soured on him for some reason?

by mikedallas23 on Dec 23, 2005 4:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps they
are finally giving him the year in memphis that he needs.  Particularly since the front office, I hear, thinks that he is a SS and not a 2B.

by Valatan on Dec 23, 2005 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tejada to the
cubs for prior is getting more web play, i hope they do it, just to see prior gone, and wood has health problems...Glendon Rusch wont be the savior

by punchinjudy on Dec 23, 2005 3:39 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

If Hendry does it
I think it becomes a make or break trade with him.   If Prior is gone and Wood doesn't go back to being a starter, they're in serious trouble.

by sdrone on Dec 23, 2005 3:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

mlbtraderumors.com
is saying that getting this trade will only add about 7 wins to their team and that is still not enough to catch us and the astros havent done shit except lose their best player. so i think the cardinals would walk away with the division as the teams are now.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 3:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Brewers
Don't forget the Brewers, who will be much better this year as their young players get more experience.  If Ben Sheets has another year close to his 2004, watch out.

by sdangler on Dec 23, 2005 6:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Brew Crew scares me the most next year
among the NL Central rivals.  They very well could be to 2006 what the Cleveland Indians were to 2005.
matty fred is a web log.

by matty fred on Dec 23, 2005 7:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i dont think so
i still think the cubs are our biggest challengers only if they add tejada. the brew crew hasnt added anyone, they lost one of the best doubles hitters in the game today in lyle overbay, even though prince fielder can add a lot of pop to that lineup. i also think that carlos lee will not be as good as he was last year. i say the win close to 90 but we still win the division by 7 games.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 7:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bedard
unless the get Bedard in the deal too. Bedard's a good pitcher, not prior. Pierre, Tejada, Lee and A. Ramirez will kill our pitching. If the Cubs get Tejada it's going to be a serious battle for the NL Central.

by VanRam on Dec 23, 2005 4:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

prior
gone would hurt them i think more than 7 wins...course you could argue he was hurt alot last year...but still pitched in 27 games..11-7 record..we all know what he can do healthy...

by punchinjudy on Dec 23, 2005 4:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

But remember,
Tejada not only means a major offensive contributor aded, but no more Neifimainia.  I think that trade would help them, but Baltimore will never do it.

by Valatan on Dec 23, 2005 5:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

johnny damon
on mlb.coms hot stove page looks like micheal landon from highway to heaven or little house on the prarie..http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/news/hot_stove/y2005/index.jsp

by punchinjudy on Dec 23, 2005 4:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'm gonna agree and disagree..
lboros, I agree that this is still a 90+ win team, which should earn a playoff slot.

But there's nothing magic that the Birds could have done---save getting another power arm---that would have increased their chances at a title.

In 2004 the Birds were buzzed down by a team of destiny; going into that series everybody thought it could've gone either way.

You inject a healthy Scott Rolen into last October's squad and maybe you beat the Astros. Who knows? It's not like they utterly kicked the Birds' asses. Two of Houston's four wins were by 1 run.

What the Birds COULD use---and what could have used in both the 2004 and 2005 postseasons---was one more power arm in the rotation. They may have that already in Anthony Reyes, and there's always the chance of a deal between now and Oct. 2006.

I would say that among the 30 teams, I can't think of any that have a BETTER chance to be playing in October in 2006. The Yankees? Well, gee, when your two best starters are 42 and 38 and showing signs of decline, I don't know...The Red Sox? They have more lineup holes than the Cardinals do, and the Jays have gotten stronger... and there's no guarantee that the AL WC comes out of the East...

by salvomania on Dec 23, 2005 4:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

does anyone really think
they should have won 100 last year..come one TLR did great and players played outta their heads..Nunez..he's good, but not everyday...and as much as i like sanders, i wanted them to sign him before he went to pittsburgh..he has a streak of teams he played for going to the series...Sanders and grudz are streaky, and older...lets face it these may not be the new faces we wanted, but i didn't ant to give 2 years to either of the old guys..or $$$ to nunez

by punchinjudy on Dec 23, 2005 4:34 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

our old friend einar
is back in cleveland, i dont know why but i really liked that guy as our back-up to molina and him and molina were really good friends. also, how is molina gonna look in his new #4.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 4:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Molina as #4...
Maybe he'll look like Ernie Lombardi! :-)

I'm not nearly as upset by the Cards' offseason as some... I'd like to know just how good the SABR-type predictions are compared to reality.  If SABR predicted Johnny Goodbody to have a .900 OPS, how often did John have that .900 OPS?  Few ballplayers are as consistent in their production as Albert Pujols.

The Conventional Wisdom (at least from what I see in the Card-Blogosphere) is that Tony/Dunc have a saludatory effect on many pitchers -- changing a "replacement-level" player to something better than that.  Is there not a similar effect for batters, or do the Cardinals simply not have this generation's Charlie Lau?  (For what it's worth, Hal McRae was one of Lau's bigger success stories with the Royals.)

by The Ol Goaler on Dec 23, 2005 5:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

87-90 wins
95 as best case scenario...everyone stays healthy, pitchers are consistent, one of the junk pickups performs above his average...that's a lot of ifs...

by VanRam on Dec 23, 2005 5:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Martinez and E'cion
I think Juan E'cion is the new Tino Martinez.  Jock once again had his back to the wall and was forced to fill an everyday line-up spot with a very average talent that isn't much of an upgrade over what he has.  Personally I would have much perfered Jacque Jones in the outfeild.  Jones at least would add a bit of left-handed power and potentially given JEd a rest in Centerfeild once in a while.

Unlike everyone else, I'm not too excited about Junior Spivey.  I don't think he adds much over the guys we already have.

by Zubin on Dec 23, 2005 5:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

in case you didnt know
we have already talked about all that stuff on here. and juan can play center field better than jacque, that is why the red sox were looking at him for CF to replace damon.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 5:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't know
My mistake... I didn't know.

by Zubin on Dec 23, 2005 5:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

thats alright man
im just tellin you
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 6:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Happy Holidays
LB:

Thanks for a great 2005.  Your blog has become my favorite baseball site.

And to everyone else, have a great holiday season, no matter what you celebrate.

Merry Chrismas; happy Chaunaka; happy (belated)Soltice/Yule/Yalda; merry Kwanza and happy New Year.

by Zubin on Dec 23, 2005 6:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

CHARLIE LAU LIVES AGAIN
FWIW, I ALWAYS THOUGHT OF EDGAR MARTINEZ AS THE LAST TRUE LAU-IST...

OPS PROJECTIONS ARE SOMEWHAT ACCURATE, INJURIES NOT WITHSTANDING - RARELY DOES A GUY OVERPERFORM HIS PROJECTION WITHOUT THE HELP OF SIGNIFICANT PARK FACTORS...

WHERE THEY USUALLY ARE WRONG IS AN "OVER-PROJECTION" WHERE A GUY PLAYS HURT OR MOVES FROM A SIGNIFICANT PARK FACTOR..

IF YOU WANT TO BE "NON-SABR" ABOUT IT, AND GO WITH SHAMANIST "TRADITION", THEN YOU COULD USE THE SAYING "A PLAYER IS WHO HE'S GOING TO BE AFTER 1500 AB'S"...  JUAN HAS CERTAINLY HAD HIS 1500 ABS', AND, AT AGE 29, BARRING INJURY, HIS OPS BY "TRADITIONAL" PROJECTIONS IS ABOUT THE SAME ~ .750 OR AVERAGE!!!

SOME OF US WOULD JUST RATHER BE MORE SCIENTIFIC ABOUT MEASUREMENTS...

by TOLAXOR on Dec 23, 2005 6:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Is it just my computer..
..or is everyone else seeing all the comments in all-red type?

It's a little too apocalyptic for me...

by salvomania on Dec 23, 2005 8:04 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

pujols factor
look at the lineups the giants rolled out for years...definetly not great and they were never out of playoff contention cuz they had the greatest hitter on the planet...pujols has a similar effect on the rest of the line up

by johnstjc on Dec 23, 2005 8:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It's not that bad
We as cardinal fans are spoiled.  I know 1982 was a long time ago, but since 99 we have had a winning team with a winning attitude.  I can't even start to think what it must be like to be a pirates fan or royals fan.  And we spoil our players.  I have seen Tino martinez get a standing ovation for striking out three times in a game.  I seen him get a standing O at a hockey game even.  Why?  I have seen postings wanting the next walker, the next sanders, give it time!  Walker and Reggie didn't have spectacular seasons for us.  They stepped up in key moments just as nunez and j-rod did.  As long as Pujols keeps being pujols we are fine.  If Scott Rolen plays a full season we are great.  And if the pitching does its job again we will be spectacular, in the sense of winning 95-100 games.  We lost role players and gained role players and it didn't cost alot of money in the process. Yes, I beleive an arm like a.j. burnett would have put us over the hump and given us a nasty rotation, but it was not a guarantee and too much of a gamble.  Overspending (see Yankees) does not win championships.  Who saw the white sox coming last year.  Modest team, modest payroll and left the yanks and the sox watching in the fall instead of playing.  I hope ponson and reyes are our diamonds in the rough and we can BARGAIN our way to a title.  please don't jump off the mlk bridge just yet, it's not even spring training!

by herr28 on Dec 23, 2005 9:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i still think walt has something up his sleeve
quoting dewitt "our payroll will definitely be above $90M and definitely below $100M" so with these two signings it only makes about $88M, so that means we have about $7M left to spend. i think we will sign a reliever and then trade for some other good position player that is young and costs about $1M or less. hopefully a craig monroe or kevin mench.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 10:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

also
i dont like this damn red font
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 23, 2005 10:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

'06 Edition
IF Rolen comes back completely healthy, and IF the Cards are spared other injuries during the season, I think the team as currently construed will win the Central and probably be favored to win the League. The encouraging thing to me is that they should be in good shape for Walt to make a pre-waiver, post-waiver pickup that could really put them over the top. They'll have some payroll flexibility and Wainright (if he puts up good numbers in Memphis) could probably land a rental impact player. And, after 23 years w/no World Series titles, I for one am ready to trade potential for a shot at a title. Who knows, we may even see Ankiel this year. I don't know how they'll sneak him through waivers again...

by Pokey Joe on Dec 23, 2005 11:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

no upgrades?
I see three upgrades from 2005 to 2006.  There's Junior Spivey, who's a better hitter than Mark Grudzielanek.  There's Scott Rolen, who's a better hitter than Abraham Nunez.  And there's Juan Encarnacion, who is an upgrade over Larry Walker, who could barely play in 2005.

I diagree with lboros completely.  $5M/yr is not an unreasonable price for a guy who can be counted on for 15-20 HR and 75-90 RBI.  Suggesting that Reggie Sanders, who is eight years older than Encarnacion and will only grow more brittle, would have been a better idea, is nuts.

by Vidor on Dec 24, 2005 1:13 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

what's nuts is
suggesting that juan encarnacion is 2/3 the hitter that reggie sanders is.

juancion has only beat sanders in ops once in his career --- five years ago, in 2000. last year sanders beat him by 91 points. in 2004, by 93 points. in 2003, by 153 points. . . .

no disagreement on spivey and rolen.

by lboros on Dec 24, 2005 1:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think what he means is...
Sanders is 38 coming off an injured 1/2 season in 2005; Sanders' production could/should definitely slip dramatically within the next 2 years.  I guess...

Looking at Encarnacion's hit chart is encouraging though.  I count 6-7 doubles/flyouts at Pro-Player/Dolphin Stadium alone that probably would've been homers in old Busch (new Busch yet to be seen obviously).

A diamond is just a lump of coal that performed well under pressure

by joker24 on Dec 24, 2005 10:47 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

big fat honkin out there rumor suggests
eckstein/mulder/prospect for miggy tejada & erik bedard

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2005/12/peter_angelos_m.html#comments

"The source also claimed that the Orioles have had significant talks with three other teams besides the Cubs about a deal involving Tejada. Those three teams are believed to be the Angels, A's and Cardinals."

&

"The main players from the Cardinals would be Tejada and an O's pitcher (thought to be either Bedard, Eric Dubose, Rodrigo Lopez or Jorge Julio) for Mark Mulder, David Eckstein and a prospect.(again the Orioles would have to be able to reach a contract extension with Mulder before the deal is made) The source claimed that while no offer has overwhelmed the Orioles to this point unless the Cubs upped their offer to include both Zambrano and Pie, or the Angels included Ervin Santana, the Orioles would eventually go ahead and make the deal with the Cardinals"

That sounds very farfetched to me, but what the hey, just posting for discussion fodder

http://www.playahard9.blogspot.com/

by erik on Dec 24, 2005 10:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well, that'd be a nice deal
And the money might not even be that nuts with Mulder leaving in the deal.  But it does seem too crazy to happen

by Valatan on Dec 24, 2005 11:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i dont think it sounds too crazy
walt makes big deals through trade but not through free agency. i could see this happening. mulder is making 7.5 and eck is makin 3.5, tejada is makin around 12 and bedard is makin league minimum about. so this trade would probably work moneywise. i would love to see this lineup

spivey
edmonds
pujols
miggy
rolen
encarnacion
bigbie
molina

rotation:

carp
bedard
marquis
suppan
ponson/reyes (if we trade wainwright instead of reyes)

bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 24, 2005 12:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

bedard
has never pitched more than 143 innings.
http://www.playahard9.blogspot.com/

by erik on Dec 24, 2005 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

guess what though
he also hasnt had the chance to pitch full-time untill last year, but he got hurt but still pitched well
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 24, 2005 1:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that deal
Don't know why, if you were Baltimore, you'd take a package starting with Mulder rather than one starting with Prior or Zambrano.
DCGreg

by DCGreg on Dec 24, 2005 12:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

because they cant...
get the other players from the cubs that they want, plus the cubs wont trade them zambrano the baby bull
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 24, 2005 1:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Meh...
The Hot Stove just ran out of heat for me...
I'll check back in February.

by cardsrul on Dec 24, 2005 11:45 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

warming to juan
Well I went bolistic on the Encarnancion signing too.  It's too much money for a guy who had such a spike last year over his career norms.

But I am a little more optimistic for the following reasons:

  • The deal is backloaded.  Walt is famous at this and it sure looks like it continues to work.  Inflation does devalue a deal.
  • Juan has never been consistently given a chance to be in a lineup every day.  If I remember correctly this was due to questionable lineup construction by people like McKeon.  And weren't sabr folks always crying for more at bats for Juan over the Conines?
  • When you take into consideration typical, peak performance age and a healthy  sample size of ABs on one team for a year, 2003 supports Juan's 2005 stats and may indicate more improvement to come.
     YR AB  HR  BB  SB   AVG   OBP   SLG   OPS
2003 27 601 19  37  19  .270  .313  .446  .759
2005 29 506 16  41   6  .287  .349  .447  .796

All I'm saying is when you consider age, ABs, and stability, we may have a late bloomer in Juan Encarnancion.

  • And Spivey is a great guy to throw in to the 2B mix.
  • And Tejada (far-fetched as it may be) would be the best X-mas present.

by demetre on Dec 24, 2005 12:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

he might be a late bloomer
but he has been so bad until now that his late improvement has only gotten him up to average.

win the gamble = encar'cion is about league avg for his position

lose the gamble = encar'cion costs the team runs / games.

and the odds do not favor the cards here; most players peak before age 30. encar'cion may be in the minority, but even if he is the best-case scenario is that he'll be a so-so player.

not the kind of gamble that wins you titles

by lboros on Dec 24, 2005 1:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Average?
You keep railing on the fact that Encarnacion is league average.  I'm not going to argue about performance but I want to know if there is  anything out there that can identify what the average salary is?  If you can show me something that says he makes way more than league average, then I'll buy into your dislike for the signing.  It seems to me, though, that he's getting paid the going rate for a veteran OFer.  I don't think the team got any sort of bargain here, but I also don't think they got totally fleeced or anything.  And, as I've said before, considering the fact that the team is paying below the "going rate" for its best player and best pitcher, as well as for Suppan, Rolen, Mulder, and many others through the years it might be asking too much for that sort of "find' in every single signing.  

by flynn on Dec 26, 2005 5:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

salary averages
This doesn't break things down by position, but it does show that the overall average salary is far from $5mil/yr.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2268047

Only the '04 and '05 Yankees have had an average salary over $5mil.  Then again, this presumably includes everyone on the 25-man roster, so all those backups making mostly near league minimum surely drag the overall average down.

For the record, I'm with Flynn on this one, I don't think he's making that much more than average, atleast compared to other contracts signed this off-season by free agent outfielders.  After all, Kenny Lofton (man I hate that guy) got nearly $4mil, although it was only for one year (he is 38 years old after all, 9 years older than Encarnacion).

by john vb on Dec 27, 2005 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone seems to be forgetting......
 There's SO much negativity surrounding every move the Cards have made, and it seems most is based on the stat lines and rotoworld projections and so on.   I for one am not concerned.  If theres one thing I've come to believe following the Card's over the last 20 years it's that you can't get too excited by a players performance with others teams.  The playing environment in St. Louis brings out the best in Underachieving players.  Case in point, We sent Greg Jeffries to the All-star game and turned a guy like Kent Bottenfield into a pitcher capable of landing us Edmonds in a trade.  
  Surrounded by guys like Pujols and Edmonds, theres no reason Encarnancion can't bring himself up to 25-30 HR 80-90 RBI form.  He has the talent.  A guy like Aaron Miles gets dumped on non-stop on the blogs buthe's carrying what, about a .280 career avg.?  They say Colorodo inflates numbers but thats for guys like Walker and Helton who have warning track flies turn into HRs and flyouts turn to gap doubles.  A guy like Eckstein who slaps shallow singles would see a lot of his hits carry on out to the right fielder and his numbers would suffer accordingly.  A guy like Miles could end up hitting .300 - .320 in St. Louis, Ya never know.
  My point is you can throw numbers around all day but the games still have to be played.  In a players friendly atmosphere I think Guys like Looper, Encarnancion, Ponson, Bigby, Miles, Spivey, even Rincon(shrug) could turn into solid pieces on a championship ballclub.
  Let's give these guys a chance before we start makking nooses and lighting torches.  I think we'll all be pleasantly suprised a month or two into the season.

by moochavelli on Dec 24, 2005 2:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Easy way to check on that, Mooch:
Check out Miles career numbers at Coors, and everywher else:

At Coors.... .321/.355/.394 (.749 OPS)
Elsewhere.. .255/.284/.337 (.655 OPS)

Also, a .289 career hitter who almost never walks (like Miles) and who has little power (like Miles) is not a good hitter---despite the .289 average.

by salvomania on Dec 24, 2005 4:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

...whoops..
even worse on the road---that's only a .621 OPS

by salvomania on Dec 24, 2005 7:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW
It can also be said that Coors has a tendency to mess with players road stats, sort of like a "jet lag" effect.  Take for example Larry Walker.  In 2003, his last full year as a member of the Rockies (as a Rocky?), he hit .338/.469/.551 (OPS 1.021) at Coors and .227/.370/.395 (OPS .766) on the road for an overall .284/.422/.476 (OPS .898).  The next year, after being traded to the Cardinals,  he hit .280/.393/.560 (OPS .953) overall.  So I don't think road stats for Coors players tell the whole story either.

Btw, I'll admit that this may not be the best example, because Larry got traded to the Cards in the middle of a playoff push, and probably got a little extra motivation out of that, but still, I think all Rockies players have horrible road stats, and they're not a good predictor of post-Rockies performance.

by john vb on Dec 25, 2005 1:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ya
I've been noticing a similar 'shell-shock' factor on the part of Rockies pitchers away stats.  They are still worse than they would be if the guys had thrown for a non-colorado team.  

by Valatan on Dec 25, 2005 7:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Trades
I want to know what everyone thinks about this.
Mulder/eckstein/prospect (not reyes) for tejada/bedard
so the rotation is:
Carp
Reyes
Marquis
Suppan
Bedard
Ponson
So you have an extra man
Then you trade someone besides carp or reyes for mench (probably marquis since it's been mentioned)

so the lineup would be:
spivey
edmonds
pujols
tejada
rolen
mench
ecarnacion
molina
Carp/Reyes/bedard/suppan/ponson

I think it would give us a great lineup and a farely weaker rotation that would all benefit from incredible offense.  Then you sign a good number 2 or a second number 1 in the much deeper 06 free agent crop.

Cardinals Jayhawks all the way.

by birdland on Dec 24, 2005 7:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

no
because $ going to Tejada over following years would handcuff the cardinals from signing any pitching talent.

this rumor is bunk, IMO

http://www.playahard9.blogspot.com/

by erik on Dec 24, 2005 11:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well...
Why I hate to put down a fellow Jayhawk fan (especially in this off year when we need all the support we can get), it just doesn't make any sense for Baltimore. They could get  much much more from another team than what we could offer. Just my opinion though.

by WhackCuzzi on Dec 27, 2005 1:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Players Association
Maybe the Looper, Juancion, and Rincon signings serve to appease the Players Association, at least to some extent.  After not going the extra year on Burnett, or adding a couple mil a year for Giles (don't you think 3/36 would've been enough to pry him away from SD?), and then low-balling stalwarts Morris, Sanders and Grud'k, our reputation in the union heirarchy must've sunken to new lows.  All of those decisions may have been sound financially, but if we always play hardball in these negotiations there are going to be ancillary consequences.  I think we missed the boat with Burnett or Giles.  Either would've been the bold move we soooooo desired, and then we all would have been more accepting of how the remaining holes were filled.  Now we're stuck with high-priced mediocrity to fill these holes, and much less prepared for October.  

by twobrdz on Dec 25, 2005 10:35 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Internet's #1 St. Louis Cardinals blog.
Start posting about the Cardinals »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Avatar_small
How to EASILY make tables for Fanposts
1753738656_110919ebe9_o_small
2010 Hot Stove Post #1: CHONE hitter projections

Recent FanPosts

Arch_small
Number 15
Small
Some thoughts on Holliday (and potential replacements)
Small
Ok let me try this again...
Knights-09_small
Disenchanted Blue Jays Fan Looking For A New Team
Painterlance_small
The Holliday Dilemma (Rocks Fan Perpsective)
375830-r1-025-11_011_small
Anybody read Bob Gibson's new book yet?
Flanders_small
Yadi2first
Small
40 Man Question..

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Managers

Jack_benny_small DanUpBaby

Editors

Bender1_small azruavatar

Adam1_small chuckb

Kid-a-bear_small the red baron