Boston is now a desperate team...

by thinktank on Dec 22, 2005 10:50 AM EST Comment 20 comments

...they need to do something immediate with the loss of Damon in Center and Manny wanting out. They are heavy in starting pitching (schilling, beckett, wakefield, clement, arroyo, papelbon) and they will go hard after Clemens to save some face. How about a three way deal with Bosox getting Edmonds and Tejada, Baltimore getting Marquis, Aroyyo and prospect, and we get Manny, Graffanino and a prospect.

With Manny protecting our other big bats we could either go with So in CF or continue to look at Coco, Jeremy Reed, or lesser FA's. Graff is expendable because of the Loretta signing.

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For one,

the Cards are in no way gonna take on Manny's contract. The owners wouldn't allow it..

by cardsrul on Dec 22, 2005 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

only adding 6-8 Million...

...Trading edmonds and marquis' salaries for manny/graff salaries for this year only adds $6-8 million dollars. According to vivaelbirdoes 2006 rostercaster we have $8.7 million to spend to get to the soft cap of $90 million. This move would also make either Miles or Luna expendable.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

by thinktank on Dec 22, 2005 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it will never happen in real life

but that doesn't diminish the enjoyment of considering your proposal. seems like deals like that happened a lot more often when we were kids, no? well, when i was a kid (70s) anyway . . . . .

by lboros on Dec 22, 2005 12:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

look at the numbers...

we have shown that we are willing to move aging players whose salaries may be getting too big for their abilities (Nunez, Mabry, Sanders, Morris) no matter how popular they are.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

by thinktank on Dec 22, 2005 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Won't happen in real life?

Then why is espn reporting that the CUBS bosox and orioles are talking about a 3-way involving Manny/Tejada/Prior as the principals? Or do you just think that the cards would never do something like this in real life? I think it is much bigger news that those teams are will to move THOSE players than the cards moving edmonds or marquis.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

by thinktank on Dec 22, 2005 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

luna or miles expendable?

who would want one of those guys? lets see probly nobody, i think other teams would rather have miles than luna anyway. i would rather just stick with lna at 2B and just acquire manny.

bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 22, 2005 1:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

okay, but

Marquis and Edmonds are too much to give up for just Manny and they won't go for Edmonds for Manny straight up. Look at the latest rumors from espn - the bosox really want Tejada and are looking at a three-way with the cubs and orioles involving manny/tejada/pryor. The only other expendable guy they have is Graffanino...and we can't just get prospects when we don't have a proven 2B. I'd rather let Miles and Graff fight it out and someone will trade a prospect for Luna as a utility inf.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

by thinktank on Dec 22, 2005 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

nobody will...

trade a good prospect for luna untuil he shows that he can play, so we let him play the 2b this year and we get soriano or kent or belliard next year and then trade luna or if luna is a good player we keep him and let him play. i just think we are not doing anything good by doing that trade. we need an OF, we dont need to trade an OF for another OF and keep us in the same position, plus manny and edmonds will do the same thing for you. sure manny will hit a lot more homers and get more rbi's but he cant play defense for shit.

bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 22, 2005 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah but...

...manny is 3 yrs younger and averages 12 more HR's and 30 more RBI per year. If So plays center our defense doesn't take as much of a hit because manny is about the same as sanders was in left.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

by thinktank on Dec 22, 2005 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why would Baltimore do that?

they downgrade pretty signifiantly in that deal. I would think they would need to demand a bunch of prospects for that to go through.

by Valatan on Dec 22, 2005 2:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

fills a glaring need

They desperately need pitching...Marquis or Arroyo could end up being their #2 and #3 pitchers...that's how unproven their arms are. They get two good pitchers and a prospect for just Tejada and a lower prospect.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

by thinktank on Dec 22, 2005 2:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why not...

just trade Edmonds for Clement/Papelbon/Graff. That will free up Marquis for OF help, and provide another challenger for 2B equation. Plus you could also used Suppan/Mulder/Reyes/Papelbon for high quality trade bait (to aquire a replacement CF?). Or could find a one year filler and restock from next years quality CF FA.

by Just Rope Ball on Dec 22, 2005 4:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why

trade Edmonds at all?

by cardsrul on Dec 22, 2005 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Only...

for some big time pitching help. He is still very productive but on the decline (wrong side of 35) and if he returns two quality pitchers and a reliever (mabye add Mota to my previous proposal) i think it would be worth it. I know Edmonds is a fan favorite and Pujols needs protection, but look at what the Astros beat us with last year: Pitching, Pitching and more Pitching. With the surplus of pitching we could use Marquis for Reed possibly.

I just really want to see a blockbuster happen (and I would love for the Cards to be involved). I am tired of all these GM sitting on their hands not wanting to move marqee players.

by Just Rope Ball on Dec 22, 2005 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why trade edmonds?...

...because last year we found out that we probably held on to mid to upper 30's OF's a half a season too long. Walt is great about moving guys just before they slide (how many guys do really well after the cards let them go?) Womack & Renteria are recent examples. I'll bet you Abe Nunez, Morris, Grudz, and Sanders won't be near as good for their new teams this year (even though I loved all those guys). Edmonds may have another good year or too but we can get more for him now near his peak (especially from a desperate team).

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

by thinktank on Dec 22, 2005 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Edmonds as trade bait

Something tells me we won't be seeing Jim in any other uni but ours. Boston would probably love to have him, but they are more concerned about filling the lead-off spot. They do have some nice prospects around the board but nobody in the Edmonds level. He is in line to have a monster year coming up, and Tony needs him in there to protect Pujols.

At least I never have to hear about the Red Sox and their stupid curse ever again.

by aprfool79 on Dec 22, 2005 5:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

thinktank you got me going...

My brain is going wild with this. I think all these trades would make sense for all teams and all teams would benefit (if they would see it that way I don't know). I know some of these guys are good guys, but here is my proposals:

Edmonds (12mil) for Clement/Papelbon/Mota (~12mil)
Marquis (4.5mil) for Reed (league min)
Suppan/Wain (4+mil) for Abreu (13mil)

I know we lose one CF and pickup a more expensive RF but look at the lineup:

Eckstein
Reed
Pujols
Abreu
Rolen
JRod/Bigbie
Luna
Molina

with this staff

Carp
Mulder
Clement
Ponson/Papelbon (with the other in long relief)
Reyes

Plus add Mota to the pen.

Look like a quality team to me. Outstanding pitching, with a productive lineup.

How do I send my information to WJ?

by Just Rope Ball on Dec 22, 2005 5:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

never happen

BOS will never trade papelbon, absolutely not, but if they would it would be nice

bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 22, 2005 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Desperate teams..

...take desperate measures. They need to show they can compete with the Yankees.

by Just Rope Ball on Dec 22, 2005 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Walt did say...

...that he regrets not turning over the roster more often in the past. However brewdog, that's ALOT of turn-over for one year with the good guys that have already left. Only the most aggressive and desperate GM's would think about what you have proposed...and WJ is at the other end of the scale. I do like what you have on paper but I think Clement/Ponson/Papelbon are more risky than Suppan/Marquis in the 3 & 4 spots. There may be more upside potential with Clement and Ponson as both of them at their best could be #2's...that's why I think you haven't heard Suppan's name come up in trade talks - they want someone less risky in the 3 or 4 spot.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

by thinktank on Dec 22, 2005 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs