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Around SBN: 2012 Africa Cup Of Nations Final

they sid it

ponson pronouncements from around the cardblogosphere:

mo boiler at the birdwatch: "This has at least a little bit of potential to be a decent move. If Ponson gives up the booze and settles down for a while, if he doesn't suck as gloriously as he has the past two seasons (he's only 29, he shouldn't be regressing), and if the undisclosed terms he signed for are around a tenth of what the Orioles were supposed to pay him this season, he might actually be a decent pickup who could eat some innings in a Suppan-esque fashion. And Duncan's history with castoffs hasn't been too bad."

rob h, in a comment to the same post: "The risk here is that Anthony Reyes spends three months in Memphis while LaRussa makes a big show of confidence in Ponson as Sir Sidney sucks. Reyes might be the Cardinals' second-best starter in 2006 and he'll be stuck behind a guy who probably deserved little more than an NRI."

the diaspora: "Given the size of the question mark hovering over Ponson's head, I have a stronger inclination to think that they'll wait and see how he does before shipping out a known commodity like Marquis. If things work out okay, Marquis or Suppan gets shipped out in July for an outfielder. Reyes then assumes a starting role with the added benefit of adjusting to the majors in half a season."

cardnilly with an angle i haven't seen elsewhere: "Sir Sidney fits in the pattern WJ has established over the last several years in that he's an extreme ground ball pitcher -- his 1.82 G/F ratio last year would have been 10th in the majors if he had enough innings to qualify... (His 1.63 mark was 18th in the majors in 2004, and his 1.69 in 2003 was 16th overall. This stat seems to be Walt's equivalent of Billy Beane's OBP, and I'm a little stunned no one has really picked up on it. This is worthy of a post for later...). The watchword is still cautious optimism, though I wish the contract as reported was a little less burdensome -- easier to get away from. Still, it could be much worse."

i bleed card'l red: "I'm bewildered by this signing, I really am. I always thought that one of the things that Jock and Tony looked for in players was character. True, there have been a couple of headcases on the team in the last few years (Tavarez, to name one), but the team, as a whole, has measured up to that image. And now, they're bringing in a guy who literally just got out of jail in his native Aruba for punching a judge."

and from elsewhere:

rotoworld: "More good news for Astros, Cubs and Brewers fans if the Cardinals put Ponson into the rotation and send Anthony Reyes back to the minors. Sure Ponson is the type of pitcher Dave Duncan tends to have success with, but he's not outperforming Reyes."

hot stove report: "he's had his troubles, and been goofed on...but people that have seen ponson are raving about how fit and focused he is since leaving rehab for alcohol abuse...and for the cardinals to take a shot on him, it says a lot, since the cards are known for avoiding players with baggage..."

deadspin: "We know it hasn't been the most productive offseason for our beloved St. Louis Cardinals, and we feared they would, in the face of growing public criticism in the face of a new stadium, make a rash deal just to say they're doing something. But jeez: We didn't think they'd start paying guys by the pound."

baseball musings: "Maybe Dave Duncan can work a miracle. Or maybe the incentives will work. Losing $10 million a year might be enough of a wakeup call for Ponson."

camden chat: "The Cardinals have signed our all-time favorite Oriole, Mr. Hard-work himself, Sidney Ponson to a one-year deal. Good luck with that. . . . .I'm kind of surprised the Cards would take a stab at him, but in the National League he may have a better time of it than he did in the AL. Who knows. I fully expect him to resurrect his career so that all the sports columnists can laugh at us, because that's the way it always goes for us."

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all i have to say is...
that the cardinals better not let this bum be up here in the majors instead of anthony reyes, even if it is for half of the year. they just need to trade one of these starters now. if they dont want to rebuild this team, you might as well just trade mulder for some outfielder, you could probly get more for him than marquis.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 21, 2005 5:28 PM EST reply actions  

I agree, mostly
I'm fine with Ponson if he's rehabbed enough to be a shadow of his pre-04 self. That said, if it means Reyes spends so much as the first week of April in Memphis, I'll be livid.

I'm not opposed to WJ going ahead and dealing Marquis now for a corner OF, as I think Wainwright is an acceptable fall-back plan if El Sid comes up lacking.

by roebirds on Dec 21, 2005 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

If you haven't
yet, get back over to The Red Reporter

http://www.redreporter.com/story/2005/12/20/21158/982

and cast your final nominating vote for this here site. If ya voted in the first round, this is new. Bat Girl has a commanding lead, but we can take her!!  

by rockin redbird on Dec 21, 2005 6:32 PM EST reply actions  

Don't forget the Walt/Tony/Dave philosophy...
...read my diary entry (thinktank) on vivaelbirdos
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss

by thinktank on Dec 21, 2005 6:57 PM EST reply actions  

Baby Reyes is our great hope?
how can you all put so much confidence in a guy who has pitched so little in MLB?

sure Reyes has good stuff, but how many guys with "good" stuff become aces? 1%?

comeon now, from years past ive found its good to have 6-7 SP's going into spring training 3-4 guys arms could explode at any time, thats pitching, and Reyes is unproven, and his arm is prolly more likely than anyones to break down on him...

why rush him to the majors..remember rick ankiel..

by 2ndprize on Dec 21, 2005 7:52 PM EST reply actions  

ankiel
how could we forget? he's the reason LaRussa is so hesitent to use young starting pitchers, that's partly why Haren is gone and Reyes is now blocked. Reyes is ready, IMO.

by erik on Dec 21, 2005 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on the meaning of "ready"
Is Reyes ready to get major league hitters out on a consistent basis? Absolutely - his start last August against Milwaukee demonstrated that. Is he mentally and physically ready to make 30 starts and pitch 200 innings a year in the majors? That's a question we can't answer yet - but given his history so far, you can't blame the club for wanting to have some cheap fallback options just in case.

I'll be pissed too if Reyes starts the year in Memphis just because we have to use a roster spot on Ponson. But if the kid's as good as advertised, and proves it in spring training, I don't think Tony and Dunc will hesitate to put him in the rotation. The club is just being careful, and rightly so, IMO.

by DCRedbird on Dec 21, 2005 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

One start doesn't mean anything
The Cards have made plenty of AAA pitchers look good  over the years in one start.

One start against a team (which probably had little or no scouting report on the guy) should not make a pitcher a lock for a starting rotation position. I'm not saying that Reyes isn't going to be a solid starter this year or that Ponson will be.  I'm just saying that we really don't have anything remotely definitive to give Reyes a starting job next year.  

by bailorg on Dec 21, 2005 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

you can be too careful
Reyes has shown he has the makings of being a great pitcher in the league. 5:1k ratios generally indicate he's got the goods. I understand he hasn't pitched 200 innings but he never will if we wait for the perfect situation to do so.

I'm hoping we trade Marquis due to this signing, not create a bigger competition. We can likely find even cheaper scrap heapers then Ponson,a la Jamey Wright or Kirk Reuter, and still draw from  the pool of our own minor league system (wainwright)

it just seems to me the plan is to have Ponson in the rotation, but I could be wrong.I guess i'll believe otherwise when I hear it out of WJ's or TLR's own mouth.

by erik on Dec 21, 2005 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

okay, now i believe
I think the idea is to go to spring training and have a competition and see,'' Jocketty said. "What it does provide is some insurance if we feel Anthony is not ready.''

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2267339

i still would rather us make a deal for an OF, oh well.

by erik on Dec 21, 2005 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

trading marquis?
Erik, I also think that signing Ponson might mean a trade for an outfielder is in the works. I've made a list and checked it twice.

by 26thMan on Dec 22, 2005 2:54 AM EST up reply actions  

my theory on ankiel
is that Carlos(im fat and imoble)hernandez was part of the problem...if matheny had been behind the plate 2 things would have been different..1. some of the balls would have been stopped, and 2 rick probably would have gotten calmed down...I used to catch..pitchers like familiarity..they prefer certain guys over other ones...would have it turned out the way it did? i dunno but i thinkk he'd still be pitching

by punchinjudy on Dec 21, 2005 8:24 PM EST reply actions  

what now? (harebrained ideas re: damon and ponson)
I keep holding onto hope that Jocketty still has something up his sleeve. Now that we have another pitcher (an uninspiring drunk, but a pitcher, nonetheless) and still need a LF, and now that the Red Sox have lost Damon and still need to unload Ramirez, would Walt be willing to deal Jedmonds and a pitcher for Manny?

I'm not a numbers guy, nor do I have any idea about salaries (those are the main reasons I come here day after day -- thanks, lboros), so who knows if it's even feasible, but I'd be willing to sacrifice a few Jedmonds web gems to see Pooje and Man-Ram play Bash Brothers for a while.

by naturalstatesman on Dec 21, 2005 9:44 PM EST reply actions  

re: what now?
I really don't think the cards would take on a contract like Manny's.  Also, I'm not sold that Manny is anything resembling a team guy.

by seagoj on Dec 21, 2005 10:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Manny has 1 thing.
Offense.

He can't play defense.  He doesn't run.  He doesn't throw.  He's not a good organization guy.  He's a good clubhouse guy only when he's not whining.  

by sdrone on Dec 21, 2005 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Manny....
one word: fuhgettaboutit

by cardsrul on Dec 22, 2005 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

john riedling
according to mlb.com the cards have signed riedling to a minor league contract. he was 4-1 last year with a 7.16 era, 27.2 IP, 16 K, 13 BB. and in 04 he was 5-3, 5.10 ERA, 46 K, 77.2 IP. his best year was 02 with 2.70 ERA, 30 K, 46 IP. i sure hope he doesnt make the major league roster.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 21, 2005 10:14 PM EST reply actions  

dont get me wrong
im not saying i wouldnt mind seeing young unproven guys within the organization get a chance..

i wouldnt mind seeing j-rod in an outfield slot and luna at 2b, even reyes in the rotation..

im just saying that its good to have more than 5 SP's going into spring training. trust me..

the way walt jocketty seems to be playing it is, ill get 6-7 SP's in spring training and see who the best 5 are. ill have 2-3 candidates for 2b and whoever preforms the best gets it.

the same people raving about reyes getting a chance are also screaming for an outfielder or 2b trade...if reyes is a guaranteed "major leaguer," why cant bigbie or taguchi or j-rod get a shot to battle for OF slot..and our 2b battle doesnt look too bad either, 1 of the 3 should work out...

even if WJ signs another bullpen guy we got money to work with...

the market sucks right now, our team is pretty solid, i expect the big noise comes next year at the trade deadline, and i bet we are better for it...

by 2ndprize on Dec 21, 2005 10:25 PM EST reply actions  

For 2B:
Junior Spivey should definitely get a look.  I would be more than pleased if our opening day lineup had him penciled in at 2B.  He's got more talent than anyone we've had for years in the 2B slot and will come cheap coming off of the abysmal season in the deathtrap known as RFK.
A diamond is just a lump of coal that performed well under pressure

by joker24 on Dec 21, 2005 10:48 PM EST reply actions  

abysmal season
i dont think it was because of RFK, remember he got traded at midseason, he really didnt have a lot of ABs there in the first place. i think it was just becuz of injuries.
bring home a championship to STL

by cards4ever on Dec 21, 2005 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Another mabye?
Don't we already have three possible starters lined up to play second.  The only way he would be more valuable than the current players would be if he could regain his 2002 stats (.301ba/.865ops/78rbi in 538ab), but more recent seasons he hasn't produced (2005: .232ba/.693ops/24rbi in 259ab).  

I say go with Luna.

by Just Rope Ball on Dec 21, 2005 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Miles
I am (WA) guessing Miles wins the job.

by Zubin on Dec 22, 2005 12:20 AM EST reply actions  

wrt competition.
ok, as much as i like the idea of having good competition in camp, isn't anyone else worried that having some possibly awful players (miles?) competing for a job in spring training could, with the help of a well-timed hot streak, lead to way too many ab's during the season? i suppose a little faith in tlr and dunc is in order - and i can't think of anything like this occurring in the recent past - but it still scares me.

by dagniel on Dec 22, 2005 1:08 AM EST reply actions  

The more I think about it
the more I like this deal.

For a modest amount of money, you get (a) long-reliever/Cal Eldred's replacement or (b) a 6th starter, with the other putative No. 5, Anthony Reyes, rotating at long relief in a reprise of Danny Haren's role.

If the guy stays off the bottle and doesn't punch out a wall (like a certain former Cardinal BPer), you have a solid slot filled out, possibly allowing for a mid-season trade of Soupcan, Marquis or even Mulder. There is virtually no downside so long as Reyes gets his proper due. (I guess there is one: Wainwright might wither. Though I suspect Wainwright will be deloused, spit-shined and packaged up with someone else in the who-knows-when outfielder trade.)

I think Duncan is pretty high on Reyes, too. I would expect him to get a fair shake. If he sets the world on fire this spring, then Ponson can take the Pulsipher Suite at the Memphis Best Western.

by Red in Chicago on Dec 22, 2005 2:20 AM EST reply actions  

Um....
It was a phone, not a wall.

by flynn on Dec 22, 2005 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

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