lohse cannon
by far the most interesting name on jim molony's list of possible non-tender free agents is minnesota's kyle lohse. he went 9-13 with a 1.43 whip and a pretty good era (4.18) by american league standards (about 5 percent better than league average); has made 30+ starts each of the last four years, with an era at or below the league avg in three of those four seasons. his career era of 4.55 translates into about 4.15 in the nat'l league.
with those numbers he wouldn't upgrade the rotation, as folks hoped burnett or vazquez might have done. but he could turn into a solid and affordable place-holder, somebody who wouldn't hurt the rotation but would free up marquis to be traded for an outfielder.
caveats: lohse's k rate has gone down four years in a row, dipping to 4.3 per 9 innings last year; batters have hit .300 against him in each of the last two seasons; and his home run rate (1.1 per 9) isn't so hot either. plus he's said to be easily flustered on the mound, thrown out of whack by bad fielding plays or questionable umpiring calls a la jason marquis. also like marquis, lohse appears to have spent many years stubbornly going for strikeouts and making things more complicated than necessary on the mound. read this from esteemed twins blogger aaron gleeman:
some more things to consider: lohse amassed more pitching win shares than either marquis or matt morris, and his fielding-independent era of 4.59 was better than marquis' (4.93), comparable to jeff suppan's (4.52), and not all that much worse than mark mulder's (4.28). in the american league, lohse's FIP put him in the same class as barry zito (4.39), jarrod washburn (4.39), bronson arroyo (4.48), and teammate brad radke (4.48).
the thing that really intrigues me about this guy is his list of similar pitchers at baseball-reference. number one is chris carpenter; number 6 is jeff suppan. makes you think he might be the type of pitcher who'd thrive under dave duncan's tutelage. supps seems particularly apt for comparison; similar rates of strikeouts and hits allowed, ditto park-adjusted era+s. check out his record through age 27; very comparable to lohse. carpenter also has a similar thru-27 line, but he's a different type of pitcher -- much higher k rates, so the comparison seems less applicable.
if you're an optimist, you might argue that coming to the dh-free national league could shave a quarter- to half-run off lohse's era; the combination of duncan, the cards' defense, and the bullpen might shave off a like amount. in which case he becomes another mulder / suppan / marquis. some data:
| era | FIP era | whip | k/9 | win sh (pitch only) |
VORP | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| lohse | 4.18 | 4.59 | 1.43 | 4.3 | 10.5 | 30.7 |
| suppan | 3.57 | 4.52 | 1.39 | 5.3 | 12.5 | 28.0 |
| mulder | 3.64 | 4.28 | 1.38 | 4.9 | 13.9 | 37.6 |
| marquis | 4.13 | 4.93 | 1.33 | 4.3 | 9.2 | 18.9 |
lohse made $2.4 million last season and is in his 2d year of arb eligibility. given the market for pitchers, you never know what this guy might go for. if the cards could get him for 2 years / $8m with a third-year option -- about the terms suppan signed for in the 2003-04 off-season -- i would like the deal a lot. but in a market that gives matt morris 3 guaranteed years and $25m, kyle lohse might well get 3 yrs / $18m or so. if that's the case i'd have to say pass.
0 recs |
13
comments
Comments
should be offered contract...
by dmb60614 on Dec 19, 2005 3:08 PM EST 0 recs
How?
by flynn on
Dec 19, 2005 3:56 PM EST
up
0 recs
Or
by Rob H on
Dec 19, 2005 4:15 PM EST
up
0 recs
a couple of possibilities
- minnesota's payroll is a lot lower than the cardinals' --- if lohse ends up with a $4m deal via arbitration, the twins would be more likely than the cards to dump the player just so they can be rid of the contract.
- wins, baby --- lohse has posted two consecutive 9-13 records (18-26 total), while marquis is 28-21 over the same span. some gms still care about that stuff
- head case --- per the post below, lohse's act seems to have worn very thin, even more so than marquis' act in stl. which may make them more highly motivated sellers than stl
- random acts of gms --- why would anybody trade mark loretta straight-up for doug mirabelli? why would anyone trade brad wilkerson @ $3m a year for fonzie soriano @ $10m?
by lboros on
Dec 19, 2005 5:30 PM EST
up
0 recs
It COULD happen
by Rob H on
Dec 19, 2005 5:56 PM EST
up
0 recs
hopefully one of two things
or they swing a trade with a smart one who recognizes what you just said about marquis ---- that la russa gave him too much rope last year in july/august in that foolish quest for the 10th win . . . .
i wouldn't expect them to get a star player for jason, but there must be some team out there with an outfield surplus / rotation deficit who will give up a player of the wilkerson / michaels / mora type.
by lboros on
Dec 19, 2005 6:22 PM EST
up
0 recs
marquis > lohse
*the twins dont seem too enamored with him, and
*i dont necessarily buy the argument that lohse is equal to marquis
since i dont think too highly of lohse (he could end up doing well, but he needs some work) the trade off only works if we can get a good deal out of a package built around marquis but possibly including wainwright/lambert/etc.
by dmb60614 on
Dec 19, 2005 7:09 PM EST
up
0 recs
THe more pitchers
by sdrone on Dec 19, 2005 3:22 PM EST 0 recs
Has anyone heard anything more about Ponson?
by FarCards on Dec 19, 2005 4:21 PM EST 0 recs
Bat Man
by erik on Dec 19, 2005 4:25 PM EST 0 recs
Washburn vs. Burnett
- Burnett at 4/$38m
- Washburn at a reported 4/$35m-$40m?
by sdrone on Dec 19, 2005 5:02 PM EST 0 recs
Niether
by FarCards on
Dec 19, 2005 5:43 PM EST
up
0 recs
nice one Iboros
If the M's are dumb enough to give that kind of contract to Washburn (no contest the Burnett signing is better), surely we can interest them in Marquis.
Also, a guy I keep falling back to as a Duncan project is Tony Armas Jr. Young underachiever, four plus pitches. Should be had for a song.
Now that the trade market has quieted, I have confidence that Jocketty will find a way to upgrade and make the OF younger while keeping his SP relatively the same.
That's what I think he's after with bullpen fortification.
Plus Reed who still has some minor question marks on defense would make the perfect pupil for Edmonds in his last few years.
by demetre on Dec 19, 2005 5:45 PM EST 0 recs













