rumor update

by lboros on Nov 29, 2005 2:53 PM EST in News Comment 33 comments

northside baseball thinks it's marquis and reyes for abreu. the thread confirms the existence of a memo from jocketty, and intimates that the move is imminent.

two posters in the comments thread over at mlbtraderumors had much the same to say:

Two of my sources in St. Louis are confirming a trade for Abreu which includes a third team which is unknown at this point...We'll see.

Posted by: Sisyphus | November 29, 2005 at 10:38 AM

I have either Abreu or Griffey going to St. Louis. Does anybody else have their finger on the pulse, or a major blip on their radar?

Posted by: Sanjay H. | November 29, 2005 at 01:15 PM

mlbtraderumors describes the latter as "a reliable poster."

Update [2005-11-29 15:5:52 by lboros]: it looks as if abe nunez just signed with the phillies --- two years, $3.5 mill. besta luck to you, kid.

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Wow

assuming it is indeed Marquis and Reyes for Bobby Abreu: 1) Given the amount of potential '06 starting pitching that we're offering, you have to think Walt is very confident that he will land a free agent pitcher - either Burnett (does acquiring Abreu even leave us the $ for that?), or as some of the folks in the Northside Baseball thread suggest, Paul Byrd...

And good for Abe. Would've been nice to keep him around, but it's nice to see guys who've had a career season cash in (especially if it's not on our payroll -- see "Womack, Tony")...

by DCRedbird on Nov 29, 2005 3:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

3rd team involved

makes some sense, I jsut can't see Marquis pitching in the PHI bandbox

Cardinals Diaspora

by VanRam on Nov 29, 2005 3:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Good for

ole Abe. A nice deal for him. I like this Marquis and Reyes for Abreu rumor--especially if we end up with Burnett as well.

by rockin redbird on Nov 29, 2005 3:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Money

Doesn't getting Abreu mean we run out of money to sign Burnett? I just looked, Abreu signed a $64M/5 year deal with Philly in '02. He's due to get $13M this year, and $15M next, with a $16M team option for '08.

I suppose we could restructure that deal, but we still need someone to play second base, as well as two starters. I like the idea of a free-for-all in left field though, with taguchi, gall, schumacker, and j.rod fighting it out in camp.

Is there anyone in the organization that thinks Wainwright is ready to start this year?

The Cubs thread also noted that we were likely to sign Paul Byrd if this deal went through.

by STLEdge on Nov 29, 2005 3:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

hmm...

Good for Abe
Even with Paul Byrd, that still leaves the Cards one starting pitcher short...does that mean it'll be Thompson/Wainright for the 5th starter?
If in fact that is what it means, I like it. Throwing Abreu in the lineup gives the Cards one seriously lethal batting order.

Cheers, Alex Fritz

by Alxfritz on Nov 29, 2005 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Farm issues...

Tell you what, though. I read about the Thome deal in detail over the weekend and I get jealous of the Sox farm system. I hate to give up the kids in trade, though I know that's WAlt's pattern, and it obviously has worked so far.

They gave up a relatively major league ready shortstop to Seattle. They send 2 pitchers to Philly. They've already brought up the kid with the 100mph fastball who's now their closer. And they STILL have McCarthy (who'll be the #5 starter this year) AND the center fielder ready to take over now that Rowand is gone.

Damn.

by sdrone on Nov 29, 2005 3:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Jenks was just smarts,

Walt or anybody else could've picked him up off of the scrapheap this time last year.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 29, 2005 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If all

this stuff is true, Jock is w/o a doubt going for the whole ball of wax in '06.

by cardsrul on Nov 29, 2005 3:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

No way Wainwright would start in '06

Look at TLR's history. He hates rookie pitchers. The reason this deal makes sense is that Reyes, even though he pitched in the bigs several times, probably would not have made the rotation anyway. Still, with Morris and now Marquis gone that means you've got two current holes to fill.

Seems like a bit of a trifecta to sign Abreu then sign Byrd to replace Marquis then sign Burnett to replace Morris. Lots of moving parts. I hope Jocketty doesn't get burned waiting for Burnett and have to settle for the scrap heap.

by Red in Chicago on Nov 29, 2005 3:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Burnett's agent

has said a deal could "just be a phone call away", so it's entirely possible that he's leaning towards St. Louis.

by cardsrul on Nov 29, 2005 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

One other thing

How do we know what the real personnel budget is for 2006? Don't the Cards have more money coming from the radio contract and stadium box deals? Wouldn't it make sense for them to poor-mouth every free agent, then go for the gusto?

by Red in Chicago on Nov 29, 2005 3:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

buzz killer

since we're speculating here, let me throw this out there. Abreu is under contract through 2007 ($13 mil in 06, $15 mil in 07) with an option year in 08 for $16 mil with a $2 mil buy out option. He also has a no-trade clause, which given the number of rumors circulating about him, he must be willing to waive this year.

Think about it, with Abreu you eat up a BIG hunk of a $90 mil payroll, add in the others on the wish list, and this deal starts to seem a little illogical. I for one don't care about the money; hey, it's not mine. But I do wonder if this would negatively impact the efforts/desires to get pitchers, starting and relieving, as well as a second baseman. Involving Reyes in the deal takes away from a key part of the team's hot stove strategy, namely having a near-sure thing and a CHEAP option to round out our pitching needs. With Reyes gone, the Cards need to replace his arm with a more expensive option (veteran) or a youngster at the same cost without the blue chip moniker in front of his name.

Abreu might be perfect for the team though, his bat always seems to go cold in the fall.

Cardinals Diaspora

by VanRam on Nov 29, 2005 3:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I checked on

this year's second half slide. Abreu's OPS after the break was in the 700s. But the previous three seasons he had an OPS of more than 900 after the break.

by Matt on Nov 29, 2005 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I forgot

to mention... thanks to David Pinto's day-by-day database for that info.

by Matt on Nov 29, 2005 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My theory...

is he screwed up his swing during his monster showing in the HR Derby, similar to what happened to Edmonds a couple of years ago.

by salvomania on Nov 29, 2005 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

actually

it may have been when he got all pissed off about his fiance having sex with one of her costars on TV in Mexico

Cardinals Diaspora

by VanRam on Nov 30, 2005 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Abreu

I'd have to imagine that if the Cards do get Abreu, it would be with a chunk of cash as well. No way do the Cardinals bring in a player who they would end up paying more than the NL MVP is making. (Well, I say no way, but you never know.)

But I doubt the Cards deal Reyes. Even Tony, hater of rookies, likes him. (Even if he did leave him off the playoff roster so King could waste a spot.) Abreu, in my mind, would be a much better option than Giles, though...

by Robb on Nov 29, 2005 4:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Who Cares

If his bat goes cold in September, we are usually about 10 games up by then. Lets just hope he can get hot in October.

Retire #51

by Retire 51 on Nov 29, 2005 4:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Interesting...

..that Abreu's number-one comp at baseball-reference.com is... Brian Giles.

by salvomania on Nov 29, 2005 4:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

RLRLRLRL

Eckstein
Abreu
Pujols
Edmonds
Rolen
Rodriguez
Molina
Some left-handed second baseman.

drools

by STLEdge on Nov 29, 2005 4:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

then the rotation would look awesome too

think about it.
Carpenter
Mulder
Suppan (unless he gets traded)
replacement level SP at <$3 million
replacement level SP at <$3 million

Cardinals Diaspora

by VanRam on Nov 29, 2005 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But, Has It Not Been Proven...

that depth in starting pitching doesn't mean jack in the playoffs? And that's Jeff "I Beat Roger Clemens In Game 7" Suppan, as well...

Could the Cards make the playoffs with two replacement-level starters and a replacement-level 2B? I think they could... even if their lead over Houston/Chicago WASN'T double-digits in September.

by The Ol Goaler on Nov 29, 2005 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Willie Harris

is a lefty-hitting second baseman suitable for the 8th slot in a lineup...

by flynn on Nov 29, 2005 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that

you are all overvaluing Reyes a little too much. The guy hasn't been injury free since college. Yes, he COULD be a worldbeater in the show, but we don't know if he will or he wont.

If we can get Abreu, a potential MVP candidate, in a trade for Reyes, then I think that the deal has to go through.

by Valatan on Nov 29, 2005 5:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Here's the big deal

we've all been waiting for...they signed Dennis Tankersley to a minor league deal. Yessir...2006 World Champions for sure now.

by cardsrul on Nov 29, 2005 6:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ah well

sure was fun to dream about that killer RLRLRLRL line up for the past few hours.

by uccellino on Nov 29, 2005 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Finally,

Someone to replace Bob Gibson.

Anyway, I love these minor league deals for failed prospects, if you make enough of them one is going to stick. Between he and Prentice Redman it isn't a bad haul.

by DanUpBaby on Nov 29, 2005 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ABREU YES

Abreu is a Barry Bonds type.

Add Burnett and Abreu and the St Louis Cardinals look incredible, i eman not incredible their my team and i have to root for em, i mean FUCKIN BADASS.

If WJ nabs Abreu and Burnett he makes the MEts look like clowns.

offer Burnett 5 years and lets get 'er done!!

by 2ndprize on Nov 30, 2005 1:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

hmm

think of postseason rotation of..

Carp
Burnett
Mulder
Soup

with lineup of

Eckstein ss
Abreu rf
Pujols 1b
Edmonds cf
Rolen 3b
J-rod/Tags lf
Molina c
Luna 2b (i think he will be fine)

now just be creative in the bullpen and we be alright. hopefully a lefty in our minors works out, and thompson doesnt falter

by 2ndprize on Nov 30, 2005 1:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Bernie says

Jock's not talking to him about anything. He's surmising it's either a big deal in the works or frustration setting in on Walt.

by cardsrul on Nov 30, 2005 1:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

A choice..

Does WJ Load up like others seem to be doing?

or does he say, hey, in 2-3 years we will be a championship caliber team...

how long is WJ's contract? 2-3 years?

DO IT WALT DO IT

roll the dice baby...for you...win one for you...and we can all benefit:)

by 2ndprize on Nov 30, 2005 1:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

hmm

there needs to be an edit button..

we signed a bunch of minor league guys so far...

this means to me, that we plan to fill holes in the majors 2b/lf/bullpen with some of our minor league guys(fine with me they pretty much won the NL central) and replace them in the minors with new signings.. then that free's up big money for a couple of studs...

i think a SP, OF or split between SP, OF and Bullpen..

i see it...

pull the trigger walt!!

abreu/burnett
giles/byrd

im telling you its imminent, if not, walt banking on 2007 or 2008 and i guess thats ok too..:(

cept edmonds deserves to be there! and who knows how long rolen lives...and we only got mulder for cheap one more year..and carpenter is an enigma, and eckstein's style of play catch up to him soon.

by 2ndprize on Nov 30, 2005 1:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs